The Windows 10 April 2018 update has arrived! Get the new Dell XPS 15, starting at $999.99
10-19-2012 07:25 PM
138 ... 3456
tools
  1. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
    They still should have safeguarded their investment. Would you buy a brand new porche and never get insurance just because you didn't have to? Do you trust all of your electronics enough to never make a backup?

    If they went so far as to do all of this work before any contract was drafted, then it's their own fault. They could have done a contract without exclusivity that would at least have garunteed their investment. E.G. the non-exclusivity agreement.

    Don't get me wrong. If this is true then Nokia pulled a slimeball move. but Verizon not covering there backs is just poor business.
    They do have their backs covered.

    Verizon is satisfied with the sales of the Motorola Droid devices and they sell their fair share of Galaxies.

    They do have a plan B, but they invested a lot of time, training, and money into plan A. As I said, if they did not have promises they may have waited to launch WP8 until later but Microsoft and Nokia said they wanted both AT&T and Verizon to be there to start the platform. And that makes sense. And they wanted both to have the premiere phones from all manufacturers. Again, makes sense.

    AT&T, though, is usually concerned when they have the same top end phones as Verizon because Verizon tends to outsell them. They lost a lot of iPhone users to VZW and seem to have an inferiority complex, so they tend to pay out a lot of money for phones to try to get people on board.

    It is two different philosophies.

    The Verizon people still like WP8 and its potential. They love the platform, but they don't feel they can trust any of the players at this moment.
    10-17-2012 11:46 PM
  2. Mr. MacPhisto's Avatar
    Agreed, MSFT should have no input on carrier availability. If Mr. MacPhisto is right then it's obvious why MSFT changed it's tune. I wouldn't want to be behind a company that is acting like that. With Verizon out of the Lumia 920's grasp Nokia has lost alot of push. With the 8X they know they will get the greatest coverage with a flagship device.
    Microsoft needs to have input if they want their platform to succeed.

    Verizon has every right to be upset if they were promised something at a certain time and then told that they now have to wait six months. They also have a right to be upset when Microsoft told them that they would LIMIT this behavior. It doesn't mean that no exclusives would exist, but that MS would try to prevent it from being more common.

    As I said above too, their are suspicions that AT&T may be funneling some cash to HTC to encourage a delay in the CDMA version of the phone - same for Samsung. I would not be surprised if Verizon refuses to carry any WP8 devices this year if the manufacturers cannot deliver them phones for launch.

    Because it's not just the 920. They've been told by all the manufacturers that there are "delays" for the Verizon phone despite them knowing for over six months that they were to deliver phones to Verizon. This has made the situation much worse and Verizon puts the blame on Microsoft for not ensuring that Verizon has product.

    Is there some arrogance to VZW? Sure, but once again, they know Microsoft needs them for WP8 to be a success in the United States.
    10-17-2012 11:54 PM
  3. ironsoulreaver's Avatar
    They do have their backs covered.

    Verizon is satisfied with the sales of the Motorola Droid devices and they sell their fair share of Galaxies.

    They do have a plan B, but they invested a lot of time, training, and money into plan A.
    It's still bad business, why invest in something without even a smidgen of garuntee. Android is a completely different program and should be treated as such. It's a well established system that stands all on it's own.

    Ignorance like that would lend me no sympathy to them for Nokias decision. They need to brush it off and go with the flow without so much as a peep on the subject. They should have made a written agreement to force Nokia to make with the goods.

    As I said, if they did not have promises they may have waited to launch WP8 until later but Microsoft and Nokia said they wanted both AT&T and Verizon to be there to start the platform. And that makes sense. And they wanted both to have the premiere phones from all manufacturers. Again, makes sense.

    AT&T, though, is usually concerned when they have the same top end phones as Verizon because Verizon tends to outsell them. They lost a lot of iPhone users to VZW and seem to have an inferiority complex, so they tend to pay out a lot of money for phones to try to get people on board.

    It is two different philosophies.

    The Verizon people still like WP8 and its potential. They love the platform, but they don't feel they can trust any of the players at this moment.
    I agree with this though.
    10-17-2012 11:55 PM
  4. Reflexx's Avatar
    In business at this level, a contract is a promise. Everything else is wishful thinking. Was there even a verbal contract? Or was Verizon making big plans on an assumption that they are too awesome for anyone, especially Nokia, to not just fall in line?

    If there was a verbal contract, and huge movements were done by Verizon, then I expect a lawsuit.

    If not, then I don't know what Verizon was thinking.

    It's actually sounding like Verizon is underestimating their competition and they're believing their own press just a little too much. OEMs have other options, and if your company isn't willing to step it up, then the competition might.
    Last edited by Winning Guy; 10-18-2012 at 12:08 AM.
    theefman likes this.
    10-18-2012 12:01 AM
  5. remindmyself's Avatar
    Still hearing there's something there with the Pureview Camera, OIS, NFC, and wireless charging. Though lots of balls are in the air right now. Verizon may not got a high end Nokia before the year is out. The six month exclusive was not what was originally planned, that much I know. Just a guess, but AT&T has gauged interest and thrown money at Nokia.

    Verizon is working on getting the high end Nokia with OIS, better Pureview sensor, NFC, etc and quadcore as an exclusive to trump AT&T, but that's after first of the year. Though even that is not certain.

    There has been talk not of Verizon dumping WP8, but of VZW dumping Nokia entirely after them promising Verizon they could have the high end phone and then reneging. Some in VZW management do want to take it out on Microsoft for allowing this in the first place.

    My contact says VZW was surprised to hear about the six month exclusive and even more surprised when Nokia confirmed it to them. They got blindsided by it after being told they'd get a version of the 920 - and Nokia had even made one.

    So anything resembling a 920 is out for now and Nokia may be out as well. And Verizon's interest in Windows Phone after working towards it for two years may be diminished.

    Microsoft screwed this up in a big way by even letting Nokia get away with this. Just a rumor inside VZW that Verizon's CEO contacted Ballmer and demanded Microsoft cut off Nokia after the first gen of WP8 devices or Verizon would not promote WP8 and may not carry it.

    There are other festering issues with delays on the devices that will allow AT&T to get them first - and they don't buy the CDMA "issues" garbage.

    The instruction to corporate sales did change due to this, encouraging them to push Motorola Android devices. They had planned to push WP8 devices to business users and encourage WP8 through discounts for companies that do BYOD. Unless Microsoft does something, Verizon may go actively against Windows Phone and throw Blackberry a lifeline when B10 goes live as an alternative.

    Verizon has the attitude that Nokia and MS need them far more than they need either of them. And they are right on that. ******* off the largest carrier in the US was not smart and there may be spillover to Vodafone.

    Nokia may have seriously damaged Windows Phone.
    This is probably the worst news I could have heard. I love WP8 and, as a Verizon customer, I can't say anything bad about my carrier. Great network and I was excited to get a high-end Nokia WP8 on Verizon. I've been sitting on an upgrade for almost six months since I heard about WP8. If other OEMs don't provide Verizon with WP8 devices on launch, I'm not exactly sure what to do. I don't want to leave Verizon, but I really want a WP8 device; at the same time, however, I don't want to reward these OEMs for screwing Verizon. I was really looking forward to a Nokia, but this display of arrogance makes me want to go with a Samsung or HTC.

    On a side note, I appreciate all of the information you provide regarding WP8 on Verizon! Ignore all the haters and please keep us, or at least myself, informed. I know I have no reason to take what you say as true, but for some reason I do. Maybe I'm naive and hopeful, but oh well. Quick question however. I don't know if you're able to answer this, but now that we know the 920 is a 6-month AT&T exclusive, does this mean that the high-end Nokia on Verizon definitely won't release until this exclusivity is over, or can Verizon's OWN version be released earlier?
    10-18-2012 01:32 AM
  6. aventador779's Avatar
    Honestly I only take the exclusivity as a grain of salt because the regular/current 920 is not compatible at all with Verizon's network, so there HAS to be a variant of it. (That is if it's releasing)

    Still very sad news. But in the end I am pretty sure there will be a Lumia 9XX on Verizon.

    Yes, I am a Verizon user and I want it to come out SO bad. I am tired of my Galaxy Nexus.
    10-18-2012 02:51 AM
  7. VagrantWade's Avatar
    Still hearing there's something there with the Pureview Camera, OIS, NFC, and wireless charging. Though lots of balls are in the air right now. Verizon may not got a high end Nokia before the year is out. The six month exclusive was not what was originally planned, that much I know. Just a guess, but AT&T has gauged interest and thrown money at Nokia.

    Verizon is working on getting the high end Nokia with OIS, better Pureview sensor, NFC, etc and quadcore as an exclusive to trump AT&T, but that's after first of the year. Though even that is not certain.

    There has been talk not of Verizon dumping WP8, but of VZW dumping Nokia entirely after them promising Verizon they could have the high end phone and then reneging. Some in VZW management do want to take it out on Microsoft for allowing this in the first place.

    My contact says VZW was surprised to hear about the six month exclusive and even more surprised when Nokia confirmed it to them. They got blindsided by it after being told they'd get a version of the 920 - and Nokia had even made one.

    So anything resembling a 920 is out for now and Nokia may be out as well. And Verizon's interest in Windows Phone after working towards it for two years may be diminished.

    Microsoft screwed this up in a big way by even letting Nokia get away with this. Just a rumor inside VZW that Verizon's CEO contacted Ballmer and demanded Microsoft cut off Nokia after the first gen of WP8 devices or Verizon would not promote WP8 and may not carry it.

    There are other festering issues with delays on the devices that will allow AT&T to get them first - and they don't buy the CDMA "issues" garbage.

    The instruction to corporate sales did change due to this, encouraging them to push Motorola Android devices. They had planned to push WP8 devices to business users and encourage WP8 through discounts for companies that do BYOD. Unless Microsoft does something, Verizon may go actively against Windows Phone and throw Blackberry a lifeline when B10 goes live as an alternative.

    Verizon has the attitude that Nokia and MS need them far more than they need either of them. And they are right on that. ******* off the largest carrier in the US was not smart and there may be spillover to Vodafone.

    Nokia may have seriously damaged Windows Phone.

    I seriously feel sorry for any Verizon customer here who actually believes you. You are almost as bad as the twitter kid.
    10-18-2012 03:29 AM
  8. ironsoulreaver's Avatar
    Honestly I only take the exclusivity as a grain of salt because the regular/current 920 is not compatible at all with Verizon's network, so there HAS to be a variant of it. (That is if it's releasing)

    Still very sad news. But in the end I am pretty sure there will be a Lumia 9XX on Verizon.

    Yes, I am a Verizon user and I want it to come out SO bad. I am tired of my Galaxy Nexus.

    Anything could be possible. It all really comes down to how the exclusivity agreement is worded. I doubt that the GSM chip being changed to a CDMA chip would be enough to consider it a legal bypass to the agreement though.

    I would like to hope but all in all though that agreement was a poor decision by Nokia. Verizon is all aboard the WP train and if AT&T were to refuse the lumia based on that agreement then they still would have been better off.
    10-18-2012 03:32 AM
  9. VagrantWade's Avatar
    Anything could be possible. It all really comes down to how the exclusivity agreement is worded. I doubt that the GSM chip being changed to a CDMA chip would be enough to consider it a legal bypass to the agreement though.

    I would like to hope but all in all though that agreement was a poor decision by Nokia. Verizon is all aboard the WP train and if AT&T were to refuse the lumia based on that agreement then they still would have been better off.
    Assuming that story about Verizon delaying Windows 8 phones due to software complications isn't true.
    10-18-2012 03:37 AM
  10. ironsoulreaver's Avatar
    Assuming that story about Verizon delaying Windows 8 phones due to software complications isn't true.
    Well... They were :) but yea.
    10-18-2012 03:40 AM
  11. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    Wishful thinking on my part, but how rad would it be if that rumor Mr.MacPhisto said about the Verizon CEO reaming Ballmer stirred MS into promising them the first Surface phone?
    10-18-2012 05:36 AM
  12. davec53's Avatar
    even though the 920 has been announced as a six-month exclusive, how does that have any effect on VZW releasing a 922, for instance? it isn't the same phone, right? i mean, i figure that is how they are getting around the 820 exclusivity...by carrying an 822.

    i really hope that a variant of the 920 lands on VZW this year (since my contract with my regional carrier is up and they have NO interest in caring WP), but if not, I guess I'll just wait and see how this all plays out.

    i really am putting a good deal of faith in what mr. macphisto is sharing with the board. just the content of what he is sharing, it feels like pretty good info to me. i know there are a few who are suspicious of it, but i really don't understand what is to gain by first creating a very complex rumor and then writing page after page of information to support and further explain it. if he IS making this stuff up, he really must not have much to do to keep him occupied. :)
    10-18-2012 08:19 AM
  13. Reflexx's Avatar
    Mr. MacPhisto is supposedly conveying information gathered from a friend in marketing. From how he puts it, things may be in enough flux that his friend is unsure of what's going on. Then you also have to account for the friend's own interpretation... then Mr. MacPhisto's own interpretation of that.

    Mr. MacPhisto may be very honest (I believe him), but this is still a game of "telephone", where information can get watered down, misinterpreted, or tainted as it goes though several people.

    Hopefully there is some sort of misunderstanding. It would be a shame if Verizon didn't get a 9xx variant.

    Though I will say that if I'm Nokia, I'm not making one unless Verizon puts a marketing agreement for my phone in writing because to put it on Verizon will surely make AT&T limit or stop their marketing.
    thed and theefman like this.
    10-18-2012 08:32 AM
  14. davec53's Avatar
    truthfully, with all this "will they, won't they" with Nokia and Verizon, it pushes me further towards the HTC phones, particularly the 8X. it isn't like the 920 appears to be far and away a better phone. outside of the fancy PureView camera and a few exclusive apps, they are pretty similar. the 32GB of storage on the 920 is the one thing i see as a clear advantage. and i don't care about the addition 0.2" of screen space.

    the reason i keep hanging on and hoping for a 9xx on Verizon, however, is that i do like to take pictures, and i'd love to be able to have the best available camera in whatever my next phone is, and right now, that appears to be the Nokia, although we will really have to wait and see some real-world test shots when both phones come out to see if that is truly the case.

    and switching to AT&T is not really an option for me. the rural area i live in is blanketed with Verizon and my regional carrier, so it is all CDMA.
    10-18-2012 08:57 AM
  15. Heron_Kusanagi's Avatar
    L920 isn't looking likely. But L930 and AT&T can't exactly complain now.
    10-18-2012 09:16 AM
  16. stmav's Avatar
    So the largest carrier in the US is claiming to be a victim and pointing fingers at MS and Nokia. When did they start acting like GE? How could things possibly get this close to launch and Verizon not have a clue about what's going on?
    10-18-2012 09:33 AM
  17. Reflexx's Avatar
    L920 isn't looking likely. But L930 and AT&T can't exactly complain now.


    If it's close enough, sure they can complain.

    Even worse, they could stop promoting the 920.
    10-18-2012 09:39 AM
  18. db4williams's Avatar
    even though the 920 has been announced as a six-month exclusive, how does that have any effect on VZW releasing a 922, for instance? it isn't the same phone, right? i mean, i figure that is how they are getting around the 820 exclusivity...by carrying an 822.

    i really hope that a variant of the 920 lands on VZW this year (since my contract with my regional carrier is up and they have NO interest in caring WP), but if not, I guess I'll just wait and see how this all plays out.

    i really am putting a good deal of faith in what mr. macphisto is sharing with the board. just the content of what he is sharing, it feels like pretty good info to me. i know there are a few who are suspicious of it, but i really don't understand what is to gain by first creating a very complex rumor and then writing page after page of information to support and further explain it. if he IS making this stuff up, he really must not have much to do to keep him occupied. :)
    That's my take on this whole thing. Is 920 exclusive to AT&T for 6 months? You bet. But how about the 922? Nope. Just like in the 820 series, the 820 is exclusive to AT&T and the 810 goes to TMO. So I take these rumors with a grain of salt.

    On another note, everything related to exclusives, offerings, etc is going to be in writing and on contract between these corporate entities and must be followed through. Do you really think all this jockeying of hardware between carriers is agreed by handshakes or "gentlemen's agreements"? I hardly think so. Everything at that level is very well thought out, planned, and executed per legal contract. So again I take all of this with a grain of salt and will just wait and see what drops. I rather not get all worked up in a lather over all these rumors. After all, these are just freaking phones we are talking about and not about life changing events (well maybe for some folks they are!).
    Last edited by db4williams; 10-18-2012 at 10:49 AM.
    10-18-2012 09:49 AM
  19. rollo132's Avatar
    ugh. This is some of the worst news I've heard all week. I know it's all rumor, but where there's smoke, there's fire....right? I've been limping this Motorola Droid (1st gen...) along for too long already, please don't make me wait, Verizon.

    I think it's time for a moratorium on rumors for me. I'm getting all verklempt over here.

    I will be spending the weeks leading up to WP8's official release in a fantasy land, where Verizon is the exclusive carrier of the new Surface phone, coming out at launch. I'll see you on the other side....
    10-18-2012 10:17 AM
  20. thed's Avatar
    If this is true, it makes sense given Elop's allegedly less than stellar track record with carrier relationships. Nothing to do now but wait and see.
    10-18-2012 10:54 AM
  21. alterbridge86's Avatar
    With all these bits and pieces coming out I'm beginning to put things together...here's my theory:

    As we all know, back with WP7 MS partnered with Nokia to provide a first class hardware/software combination. This gave Nokia payments of hundreds of millions of dollars, in exchange for some kickass hardware and quality software enhancements.

    With WP8, Nokia announces their new devices, everyone oooh's and ahhh's because they are some sexy devices, but no word on carriers, cost, etc. Then a few weeks later, HTC unveils their new devices, with some surprising comments from Microsoft...that HTC is the "Premiere" launch partner for WP8, and that the HTC devices will even use the Windows Phone name in their title, ala the HTC Windows Phone 8X. This seemed puzzling at the time, since MS was paying so much money to Nokia for them to be the premiere partner.

    Fast forward again, and now we have all this news about the 920 being exclusive to ATT, and the 820 being semi-exclusive with only variants appearing on other carriers. So now the picture begins to come into view. MS had to be aware of these deals Nokia made, and I think behind closed doors MS was pissed at Nokia for not having the device across all major carriers (which MS knows is absolutely necessary to achieve penetration in the iOS/Android stranglehold). As a result, MS taps HTC to be their launch partner, since the 8X and 8S are supposed to be showing up on all three major carriers that are interested in WP (and i would really hope that MS has some sort of agreement with HTC requiring them to deliver a phone on all carriers).

    This frustration for MS I think lends even more credence to the rumors of the Surface Phone, and just like the Surface tablet, I think MS has lost all faith in their OEM partners in both mobile and PC. This is why they have begun to make the transition into a Devices and Software company. I am sure that when the surface phone does land, it will be available on any carrier that will take it. I doubt MS will be swayed by ATT (or any other carrier) throwing a few bucks at them, since they aren't even close to being cash strapped and desperate like Nokia and even HTC to an extent.

    Thats just my theory anyway...in any event, I really hope that the HTC and Samsung devices at least make it to Verizon...I really could care less about Nokia at this point with their blatant cash grab from ATT...long live Windows Phone! :)
    10-18-2012 11:07 AM
  22. jfa1's Avatar
    Microsoft needs to have input if they want their platform to succeed.

    Verizon has every right to be upset if they were promised something at a certain time and then told that they now have to wait six months. They also have a right to be upset when Microsoft told them that they would LIMIT this behavior. It doesn't mean that no exclusives would exist, but that MS would try to prevent it from being more common.

    As I said above too, their are suspicions that AT&T may be funneling some cash to HTC to encourage a delay in the CDMA version of the phone - same for Samsung. I would not be surprised if Verizon refuses to carry any WP8 devices this year if the manufacturers cannot deliver them phones for launch.

    Because it's not just the 920. They've been told by all the manufacturers that there are "delays" for the Verizon phone despite them knowing for over six months that they were to deliver phones to Verizon. This has made the situation much worse and Verizon puts the blame on Microsoft for not ensuring that Verizon has product.

    Is there some arrogance to VZW? Sure, but once again, they know Microsoft needs them for WP8 to be a success in the United States.
    The rumors that I read about said the issues might be with the VZN spyware not installing properly. I hope thats not the case I wouldnt want that on my device!
    10-18-2012 11:08 AM
  23. Reflexx's Avatar
    The rumors that I read about said the issues might be with the VZN spyware not installing properly. I hope thats not the case I wouldnt want that on my device!
    I'm seeing a lot of people hinting at that also.
    10-18-2012 11:55 AM
  24. ironsoulreaver's Avatar
    The rumors that I read about said the issues might be with the VZN spyware not installing properly. I hope thats not the case I wouldnt want that on my device!
    Even though you might not want that, it might keep you from getting a WP on Verizon altogether. Then you will be stuck with a phone that has it anyway.
    10-18-2012 12:10 PM
  25. dogfish54's Avatar
    With all these bits and pieces coming out I'm beginning to put things together...here's my theory:

    As we all know, back with WP7 MS partnered with Nokia to provide a first class hardware/software combination. This gave Nokia payments of hundreds of millions of dollars, in exchange for some kickass hardware and quality software enhancements.

    With WP8, Nokia announces their new devices, everyone oooh's and ahhh's because they are some sexy devices, but no word on carriers, cost, etc. Then a few weeks later, HTC unveils their new devices, with some surprising comments from Microsoft...that HTC is the "Premiere" launch partner for WP8, and that the HTC devices will even use the Windows Phone name in their title, ala the HTC Windows Phone 8X. This seemed puzzling at the time, since MS was paying so much money to Nokia for them to be the premiere partner.

    Fast forward again, and now we have all this news about the 920 being exclusive to ATT, and the 820 being semi-exclusive with only variants appearing on other carriers. So now the picture begins to come into view. MS had to be aware of these deals Nokia made, and I think behind closed doors MS was pissed at Nokia for not having the device across all major carriers (which MS knows is absolutely necessary to achieve penetration in the iOS/Android stranglehold). As a result, MS taps HTC to be their launch partner, since the 8X and 8S are supposed to be showing up on all three major carriers that are interested in WP (and i would really hope that MS has some sort of agreement with HTC requiring them to deliver a phone on all carriers).

    This frustration for MS I think lends even more credence to the rumors of the Surface Phone, and just like the Surface tablet, I think MS has lost all faith in their OEM partners in both mobile and PC. This is why they have begun to make the transition into a Devices and Software company. I am sure that when the surface phone does land, it will be available on any carrier that will take it. I doubt MS will be swayed by ATT (or any other carrier) throwing a few bucks at them, since they aren't even close to being cash strapped and desperate like Nokia and even HTC to an extent.

    Thats just my theory anyway...in any event, I really hope that the HTC and Samsung devices at least make it to Verizon...I really could care less about Nokia at this point with their blatant cash grab from ATT...long live Windows Phone! :)
    Your interpretation of what might be happening makes sense. Essentially there may be.a difference of opinion between Nokia ans MSFT about how to get the most penetration. Nokia seem VERY concerned about the platform and its growth, but i get the feeling that Verizon are not ready to really commit to Windows phone. The sort of cash that ATT may be throwing at Nokia is unlikely to make a difference, Nokia needs sales, not one-time payments. There is much more to this story than pettiness and emotion. I love readin Mr Macohisto's comments, but they may just be clever fiction, fed to the hungry hungry fans. Time will tell.
    10-18-2012 12:14 PM
138 ... 3456
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD