Nokia to do "Exciting things with Verizon" says Stephen Elop

[Ruined]

That quad-core is not a 920 variant, but a different phone. I'm sure it will share some components, but the phone that had been expected to release in November on Verizon was a match for the 920 with a higher MP camera sensor and CDMA2000 support.

The quad-core will have a higher number and has always been slated for spring.

Mr Mac - what about MicroSD in the vzn 920?

 

[dogfish54]

User adoption of Windows 8, particularly on tablets, touchscreen laptops, and convertible laptops/tablets will help a lot too. I've played around a lot with various touchscreen Windows 8 tablets and laptops a lot over the last week or so, and once people understand how the interface works and understand that a touch interface greatly enhances how a laptop form factor device can be used, I think people will strongly prefer that interface over non-touch, non-gesture, and non-live information interfaces. (Having said that, I will say that I think the Metro UI works better on a larger-screened device.) I haven't had a chance to use my own Windows 8 device yet, but from what I've seen and experienced, assuming Windows 8 runs smoothly most of the time like Windows 7 does, I think Windows 8 is an awesome, revolutionary product. I know I plan to buy a touchscreen Windows 8 laptop in the near future (most likely the Asus VivoBook X202E model), and I'm very excited about that.Incidentally (for Mr. MacPhisto), thanks for the information on Verizon's upcoming Windows Phone 8 devices. I'm intrigued by the two current devices but I really want to see what high end devices come out from Samsung and especially Nokia (and I felt that way even before reading this thread). I've liked my HTC Trophy (and really liked the Metro live tiles) and outside of an e-mail problem I had about 2 months after I bought it, I thought it operated smoothly (not quite as smooth as the iPhone 4, but a lot more smooth than the two Android smartphones I've had, especially the comparable in age/when it was first released worldwide Droid 2). I'll probably hold off on buying a WP8 smartphone until a few more high-end devices come out; hopefully they'll be out soon.P.S. In the meantime, I may buy an iPhone 5; I've been planning to buy both a WP8 device and an iPhone 5 in early 2013, though I was planning to buy the WP8 device first and I may now reverse the order of my purchases. Unlike a lot of people on WPCentral, I'm not really anti-Apple and I'm definitely not anti-iPhone; I genuinely like the iPhone 4 I have and think it works very well in general despite its age. I don't have an iPad or Mac though; even though I think Apple makes good products, I think the value to cost proposition for their products works for the iPhone but not for the iPad or Mac. I wish these tech websites that fawn all over Apple would incorporate price considerations into their reviews - sure, the iPad might be a technically excellent product, but unless you like playing tons and tons of app-based games on tablet, is the cost-value proposition there for the iPad at $500? I think not, not when you can buy a much cheaper product that has 90% of the core functionality (web-browsing) or a similar-priced product that offers greater functionality (access to solid word processing software, not to mention a keyboard that can function as an integrated unit with the tablet).Sorry for the off-topic semi-rant at the end of my post.

I'd wait for the 5S in all seriousness, it shouldn't be too far away and should be better refined. Battery life on my 5 is limiting.

 

[CHIP72]

I'd wait for the 5S in all seriousness, it shouldn't be too far away and should be better refined. Battery life on my 5 is limiting.

I wonder if Apple will change their release cycle for the iPhone ala what they did with the iPad. Tim Cook is much more of a numbers/supply chain/market share kind of guy than Steve Jobs was, so I agree it is possible the iPhone 5S will launch in spring 2013.

Geez, this whole waiting for even better WP 8 (and iOS) smartphone devices is annoying (as is dealing with Android; my Galaxy Nexus is my only 4G LTE device so I'd like to keep it on one of my two lines, despite it being Android). Please Nokia, launch that 92X or 102X Lumia variant on Verizon sooner rather than later!

 

[ryan.kruger]

I'm glad my wife entertains my obsessions with tech. I'll give her my recently acquired 8X, and then I will use her upgrade to get whatever Nokia phone is hitting the market next year.

Like using training wheels for jumping into WP8.

Quad core, while completely unnecessary, would push me over the edge from "want", to "must have".

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

I wonder if Apple will change their release cycle for the iPhone ala what they did with the iPad. Tim Cook is much more of a numbers/supply chain/market share kind of guy than Steve Jobs was, so I agree it is possible the iPhone 5S will launch in spring 2013.

Geez, this whole waiting for even better WP 8 (and iOS) smartphone devices is annoying (as is dealing with Android; my Galaxy Nexus is my only 4G LTE device so I'd like to keep it on one of my two lines, despite it being Android). Please Nokia, launch that 92X or 102X Lumia variant on Verizon sooner rather than later!

I wonder if it's more because sales aren't impressive right now. Lots of competition for the iPhone now. They still sell a lot, but their stock has fallen for reasons beyond tax rates going up. I think many saw the parts order reduction and excess inventory as indicators that Apple may have peaked. I tend to think that iOS will continue a market share decline while Android continues to stay strong and the Windows products gain traction. I also think BB10 will help RIM a bit. Apple's not going to lose money or anything, but I think in the next two years they'll be far less powerful in tech.

 

[hopmedic]

User adoption of Windows 8, particularly on tablets, touchscreen laptops, and convertible laptops/tablets will help a lot too. I've played around a lot with various touchscreen Windows 8 tablets and laptops a lot over the last week or so, and once people understand how the interface works and understand that a touch interface greatly enhances how a laptop form factor device can be used, I think people will strongly prefer that interface over non-touch, non-gesture, and non-live information interfaces. (Having said that, I will say that I think the Metro UI works better on a larger-screened device.) I haven't had a chance to use my own Windows 8 device yet, but from what I've seen and experienced, assuming Windows 8 runs smoothly most of the time like Windows 7 does, I think Windows 8 is an awesome, revolutionary product. I know I plan to buy a touchscreen Windows 8 laptop in the near future (most likely the Asus VivoBook X202E model), and I'm very excited about that.

One thing you need to watch for on laptops with touch screens is hinge design. I have an HP dv6t SE with a touch screen, purchased with Win7, that I've been running Win8 on since the developer preview last September. I've got epoxy inside it, in place of the plastic that failed due to the poor hinge design. This is the only HP I've ever owned, and it will be the last, I'm sure. The air flow path is designed such that where the dust catches you actually have to take the thing apart - all the way down to removing the heat sink from the processor, if you want to get all of the dust out of the air flow path. There is no way you can expect Joe Computer User to take his laptop apart down to that degree, but it got to the point that the thing was shutting down at temps of 100C processor temp. But I digress... The hinge of a touchscreen laptop should be beefier than a standard laptop, or it isn't going to last, as I have proven with this one.

I wonder if it's more because sales aren't impressive right now. Lots of competition for the iPhone now. They still sell a lot, but their stock has fallen for reasons beyond tax rates going up. I think many saw the parts order reduction and excess inventory as indicators that Apple may have peaked. I tend to think that iOS will continue a market share decline while Android continues to stay strong and the Windows products gain traction. I also think BB10 will help RIM a bit. Apple's not going to lose money or anything, but I think in the next two years they'll be far less powerful in tech.

iOS continue a decline and Android continue to stay strong?? The latest numbers show that (in the US) iOS went from 35.8% to 53.3% from last November to this November, while Android dropped form 52.8% to 41.9% in the same time frame. In other nations, the numbers aren't all as dramatic, but most of them show the same directions with a couple exceptions. I do like the climb of Windows Phone from 1.9% to 4.2% in Australia, and from 3.6% to 11.8% in Italy. In the US we're only at 2.7%, up from 2.1%, but we must also keep in mind that this report is based on numbers prior to the launch numbers for Windows Phone 8.
Latest report shows global Win Phone growth, strong Nokia comeback in the UK | Windows Phone Central

 

[CHIP72]

Hopmedic - thanks for the insights on touchscreen laptops. Your comments give me some pause about buying a touchscreen laptop. I still probably will go in that direction, but I'll take a closer look at the laptops' hinge construction. The Asus VivoBook X202E did appear to be solidly constructed when I've looked at it previously, but I didn't focus on the hinge.

 

[thegoodfight]

I've heard that they have a couple of things up their sleeve.

Firstly, Verizon is very pleased with the sales of the 822. From what I understand, it is quite a hot seller thus far and was reduced to $49.99 because of the margin and the interest - making it more of a mass market product. It will bump back up to $99.99 in January, though.

They are disappointed in the HTC 8X. The high price and lack of features is a problem and apparently HTC did not help matters by being inflexible on expanding storage (Verizon asked them for a 32GB model to go with the wireless charging) and being inflexible on the price they charged the carrier. Reading between the lines indicates that HTC may have gotten a big head over the 8X and it ended up biting them in their bums. Nokia's aggressive strategy is paying dividends with all carriers they are available on - and making the carriers more interest in adding more Nokia WP8 devices.

Verizon has asked Nokia for a version of the 620 that has LTE capability because they really want to move everyone over to LTE and onto smartphones. HTC was supposed to give them the 8S, but apparently they are mostly going with non-US markets where the 8X is doing better when sold off carrier. Verizon's people have apparently asked them why they could not have built the 8X with a similar case where it is pretty much unibody but the bottom snaps off for the SIM card and microSD expansion. The low storage and lack of expansion are major reasons why people are not buying the 8X. And HTC did not want to add LTE to the 8S - a deal breaker for VZW.

I think this has a lot to do with why they are cancelling the Droid DNA based larger Zenith device. From what I understand, MS has told HTC they will provide 1080 support if they ask for it. I know Verizon is loving how much MS wants to work with them and the OEMs to really develop what they all want.

So look for a free Samsung WP8 device, if Sammy can ever deliver them to go with the high end ATIV Odyssey.

But it sounds like Verizon will get the 622 (appears VZW will be getting the x22 designations) with LTE support, offered free with contract.

Expect more colors to come to the 822, but the price to return to $99, though they may include a microSD card (8-16GB) with it come spring.

Then expect a quad core Lumia with Pureview, OIS, etc that may end up with a 1080P display. The target date is Easterish. They may call it the Lumia 1022.

So it appears they will have the 622, 822, and 1022. Also there may be a refresh at some point to the 822 to give it an HD screen and that model would be called the 822-HD.

I know for a fact that Verizon is very excited about Nokia. There is some thought that HTC may end up pulling their WP8 support in the US, though Samsung is wanting to expand their WP8 lineup.

Awesome news, thanks for the updates! Sounds like generally what the word has been from many carriers worldwide; that many of them are disappointed with HTC, and most carriers are very pleased with Nokia. Having America's largest carrier being so pleased with Nokia and adding more Lumias is going to be great. The high end Lumia, once it comes to Verizon is going to do wonders for Nokia sales.

 

[socialcarpet]

I actually prefer the 8x over the Nokia 920 and 822. Better phone in my opinion all around except for low light camera and a few Nokia apps. And I doubt HTC is going to dump there US support of wp8 EVER! Too much money there.
Sent from my HTC6990LVW using Board Express

Not much money in it if you're really committed to Android and just half-assing your WP efforts and support. That's the difference between HTC and Nokia.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

iOS continue a decline and Android continue to stay strong?? The latest numbers show that (in the US) iOS went from 35.8% to 53.3% from last November to this November, while Android dropped form 52.8% to 41.9% in the same time frame. In other nations, the numbers aren't all as dramatic, but most of them show the same directions with a couple exceptions. I do like the climb of Windows Phone from 1.9% to 4.2% in Australia, and from 3.6% to 11.8% in Italy. In the US we're only at 2.7%, up from 2.1%, but we must also keep in mind that this report is based on numbers prior to the launch numbers for Windows Phone 8.
Latest report shows global Win Phone growth, strong Nokia comeback in the UK | Windows Phone Central

Except Apple cut their iPhone 5 parts orders and their stock continues to decline.

Kantar's 12 week numbers don't jibe with numbers reported by the OEMs in the prior quarter, so I take them with a grain of salt. The fact that there's plenty of stock all over and no shortage despite massive "popularity" is a warning sign. I wonder if Kantar takes deliveries or sales into account, because the 53.3% could be Apple being overly zealous and way over delivering. Another factor is that these surveys often do not account for Walmart and Amazon sales.

I've worked in the retail industry and have dealt with surveys in the past like Kantar's and know how inaccurate they can be. If an item is selling out then they can be dead on, but retailers and manufacturers will not release sales nor will they release inventory numbers, so it is hard to arrive at any firm numbers. Most businesses will not release sales numbers to any third party at all.

Apple's quarterly earnings report will be the most illuminating. Their iPhone 5 first weekend sales were very unimpressive considering the LTE upgrade
on the phone. Their stock and outlook has been downgraded by everyone. There is already talk that they are prepping a mid-cycle iPhone because sales of the iPhone 5 are terrible when weighed against expectations. They probably had a huge bump from the first week or two and have fallen off the planet since then. I would suspect that the iPhone 4 may be the best "seller" because it's free with a contract. I do know a lot of people who picked them up and are completely ignorant of the smartphone landscape. They hear "free iPhone" and go nuts, even though it is 3G and pretty crummy compared to the newest tech. A coworker who picked one up (also VZW customer) was so excited until I picked up my 822 and he saw it. And now that it just went free, he's even more disappointed.

I bet the iPhone numbers in the US are a mixture of free iPhone 4 models and too much inventory that Kantar is logging as marketshare. We won't know how many iPhone 5 models are sold because Apple will lump them all together to hide how poorly the 5 is doing.

The iPhone's time is coming close to being up. Android will remain big. I think WP8 is slowly gaining some traction and I think RIM will rebound. iOS could be considered the worst mobile OS by mid-year with Apollo+, Jelly Bean, and BB10 out.

And Apple stock keeps on bleeding - and it's not just the fiscal cliff and taxes. It jumped up slightly on the report and then fell again as people realized the report is not likely accurate (and I've heard plenty of that today due to reports of excess inventory of all iPhones).

Apple has lost over about 27% of its value since mid-September. Google, OTOH, has lost under 10% and has recovered from their biggest sell off. If Apple is so hot, they should be mirroring Google and losing a bit, but not over 1/4 of their value.

Apple is in trouble - at least mild trouble. They are not going out of business or anything, but imagine the kind of tanking that will happen if their year to year sales numbers have only a slight growth or are stagnant. Their stock will tank worse than it has been.

One iffy quarter and Apple will lose half their current market cap. Then the stories will come out about how Apple has lost their mojo and we could expect Tim Cook to be forced out as Apple desperately looks to recover. Of course, they were overvalued from the getgo. I suspect their marketshare will eventually fall into the 10-15% range in tabs and smartphones. They'll be the minor players they were back in the 80s and 90s mainly due to their setup.

I think the same for RIM, really. MS and Google have the best upside because of their greater variety. Even if MS offers their own products, I suspect they can exist with other phones and tabs.

 

[dogfish54]

Apple is at a critical juncture, it just doesn't look like it right now.

Google is really the one to keep an eye on, like Microsoft they can survive for quite a long time without making any money from Mobile. Apple and RIM cannot. Apple certainly is not going anywhere for a LONG time.

RIM is the weakest player here and I just keep flip-flopping on how they will do. On one hand I think Google may hate Microsoft just enough to support RIM and try to suffocate Windows 8 and Window Phone 8. If they don't find a partner in Google, they just don't have the ecosystem to be a really strong player on their own.

 

[Honestabebread]

Apple is at a critical juncture, it just doesn't look like it right now.

Google is really the one to keep an eye on, like Microsoft they can survive for quite a long time without making any money from Mobile. Apple and RIM cannot. Apple certainly is not going anywhere for a LONG time.

RIM is the weakest player here and I just keep flip-flopping on how they will do. On one hand I think Google may hate Microsoft just enough to support RIM and try to suffocate Windows 8 and Window Phone 8. If they don't find a partner in Google, they just don't have the ecosystem to be a really strong player on their own.

I agree with the statements being made about Apple. The iPhone 5 is selling VERY poorly in the districts that I'm over. I went to a store yesterday to hang out and check on some new hires and they had iPhone 5 stacked to the ceiling but no iPhone 4 or 4S to be found. One rep had a list of like 10 people to call when they got in the iPhone 4 because no where within 50 miles had the phone.

The bloated sales numbers for Apple are 100% the free iPhone 4. Holiday time comes and every parent comes in and can't say no to a free iPhone. Luckily Verizon has the 822 for free now as well. That will hopefully boost competition.

 

[dogfish54]

Unfortunately most people won't know what they are missing with an iphone4. Unfortunately, it's a pretty slow and dated experience out of the box (if you update IOS). But, most kids / teenagers that want an iphone won't care about that. They'd rather it be slow and have all the apps they want than be fast, have LTE and not have the apps.

It can't be great for Apple to be selling so many low-end devices like that, margins wouldn't be very good ... and they made it 8GB storage instead of 16GB, correct? I think that was a bad move too.

 

[hopmedic]

But even with the Apple sales being the older model, that can't help the Windows Phone market share. That's more iOS phones, more iOS app sales, more people becoming invested in the iOS ecosystem, and more people that will be harder to convince that Windows Phone is what is upcoming. I'm not following how this is bad for apple - yeah, I understand how it's not as good for them as the numbers that I posted would suggest, since you're saying that the sales are not for the iPhone 5, but they're still getting people hooked on the crack that is iOS, right?

 

[dogfish54]

But even with the Apple sales being the older model, that can't help the Windows Phone market share. That's more iOS phones, more iOS app sales, more people becoming invested in the iOS ecosystem, and more people that will be harder to convince that Windows Phone is what is upcoming. I'm not following how this is bad for apple - yeah, I understand how it's not as good for them as the numbers that I posted would suggest, since you're saying that the sales are not for the iPhone 5, but they're still getting people hooked on the crack that is iOS, right?

You make a good point. I would be very excited to see great sales of the Lumia 620 or HTC 8S because of the overall benefit to the platform. If there were teenagers clamoring for the 822 or 820, I would be singing a different tune.

For Apple, I think it's about direction. People moving down the food-chain with the iphone suggests that the iphone5 is not a compelling upgrade. It's bad financially for Apple, but I agree, from an ecosystem war perspective, it IS good for Apple. If the 920 and 8X were a HUGE success like the iphone has been, and all of a sudden, sales dropped off and people were buying the 822 and 820, I think it would be a concern for Nokia and HTC, but Microsoft would be happy either way. So good for the software side, bad for the hardware side of Apple.

 

[Honestabebread]

But even with the Apple sales being the older model, that can't help the Windows Phone market share. That's more iOS phones, more iOS app sales, more people becoming invested in the iOS ecosystem, and more people that will be harder to convince that Windows Phone is what is upcoming. I'm not following how this is bad for apple - yeah, I understand how it's not as good for them as the numbers that I posted would suggest, since you're saying that the sales are not for the iPhone 5, but they're still getting people hooked on the crack that is iOS, right?

Most customers we deal with are not invested in the ecosystem whatsoever. Maybe its a regional thing but in my district, a typical customer could switch between platforms and not notice.

 

[hopmedic]

Most customers we deal with are not invested in the ecosystem whatsoever. Maybe its a regional thing but in my district, a typical customer could switch between platforms and not notice.

Really? Interesting. That surprises me. Not that I can speak on the subject with any experience myself - I've been using Microsoft phones since around 2005 or so, if memory serves right.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

But even with the Apple sales being the older model, that can't help the Windows Phone market share. That's more iOS phones, more iOS app sales, more people becoming invested in the iOS ecosystem, and more people that will be harder to convince that Windows Phone is what is upcoming. I'm not following how this is bad for apple - yeah, I understand how it's not as good for them as the numbers that I posted would suggest, since you're saying that the sales are not for the iPhone 5, but they're still getting people hooked on the crack that is iOS, right?

App sales are overrated. I've read studies that indicate about 85% of all apps on phones are free apps.

This goes into what Honestabrebread has said - that people aren't all the committed and they will dump your platform quickly. They want iPhones because it's a name they heard, but when they see how tiny and slow the iPhone 4 is in comparison to those people with new phones out there, they will be disappointed in the brand and Apple in general. I've seen it with people who have iPhone 4 models on Verizon that can't keep up with my LTE speeds. Guy I worked with saw me do a tap+send and asked how he could do it - and had to explain that no iPhone could do it. When he found out I ended up getting my 822 for free with contract, he openly said he regretted that he couldn't return this phone that he was so excited about.

People also made a big to-do about marketshare and that report as well, but last year they were saying that Apple had around 43% of the US smartphone market yet the numbers indicated that had under 14% of the global market in actual numbers. Either the iPhone does not sell anywhere else or those retail surveys are wrong.

I would bet the retail surveys are inaccurate. If Apple Stores, for instance, participate in the survey but Verizon stores do not then we will have a number that is not accurate. How do you survey Verizon online sales? Walmart makes it a habit of not answering retail surveys. Best Buy usually doesn't either. So how can you get an accurate reading? And many companies request that inventory levels not be reported to outside inquiries. Apple tends to not to this. Why? It's part of a PR move to rig the retail survey to make yourself look good. Trust me, I've seen it. It's used to try to pump up your stock and your image while trying to create a manufactured demand.

The high number in the retail survey leads me to believe that Apple is doing far worse than any of us think with the iPhone. Knowing that the release of the data was shortly before Christmas, they sought to rig the number to try to encourage people to believe there is a demand. This happens when you actually have excess inventory you wish to purge.

Too many people seem to think ecosystem matters with the phone. This is not the computer. People have not invested hundreds and hundreds of dollars in software and thousands in equipment. Most smartphone users likely spend well under $20 a year in app purchases. Most apps used are not paid. Migration is a cinch as long as there are good alternative (or the same) apps.

Microsoft's big advantage here is that they offer a different paradigm - one that is still developing, but they have differentiated from desktop OSes in looks the most and in functionality. The Live Tile is an innovation and I have heard nothing but praise of it. The maturity is not there, but it will get there.

I've heard a lot of disappointment over iPhone 5. I also know that Verizon and AT&T are not happy over having more 4S and 4 phones out there because both want to push LTE. They had no choice but to offer the 4 and 4S in order to get the 5, the phone they were promised would blow all sales records out of the water. The GS3 is still doing better.

I know for a fact the Verizon and AT&T want to be in a position to dump the iPhone entirely. But they need more than Android. WP8 and its growth is something they want (notice how much Verizon has advertised it). Both also will champion BB10. If they can get both off the ground and growing then they will be able to kick Apple to the curb in a year or so and stop selling the iPhone.

I do know that Verizon is actively pursing ways to ditch Apple entirely.

 

[alchemyindex]

This information seems to make some sense. My only question is this, why? If vzw really wants to ditch apple, are they moving their point of sale terminals to ipads?

 

[Ruined]

This information seems to make some sense. My only question is this, why? If vzw really wants to ditch apple, are they moving their point of sale terminals to ipads?

I do think to an extent they want to ditch apple. In my local Verizon store, Windows Phone & tabs have the whole right wall, Android has the whole left wall, while iphone is alllll the way in the back by itself with no excitement.