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06-13-2013 03:05 PM
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  1. vlad0's Avatar
    I played around with some full resolution images from the Phase 1 system today... one advantage of having such a large mpix count is that you can basically pick any number of mpix between 2 and 38 and .. resize accordingly. I don't think it brings any improvement in terms of IQ, but I can see the benefit..

    I've taken these over the last few months, and I never looked at them because I really don't care about the mpix count that much, and I still think that in PureView mode the 808 produces the best results.

    So let's hope they can fully port the technology over to WP


    15Mpix

    18Mpix

    12Mpix

    10Mpix
    jmajid and 12Danny123 like this.
    05-17-2013 03:05 PM
  2. tissotti's Avatar
    Imo if any phone ever, it's the EOS Nokia should never use large screen. It will look ludicrous with anything like 808PV camera module. It would anyways be nice to be able to grip a phone with that kind of camera, so keep it on 4-4.5-inch, like Nokia will likely do.

    Nokia is absolutely free to make +5" phablets and no doubt will when Microsoft finally decides to move 1 cm forward by giving 1080p support. Likely somewhere in Q4... hopefully.

    wp_20130517_008.jpg
    From left to right: Lumia 925, Lumia 920, Lumia 800, N97

    lumia920_808_sensors.jpg
    41MP "true" PureView camera on the left, Lumia 920 on the right
    vlad0 likes this.
    05-17-2013 03:21 PM
  3. vlad0's Avatar
    ^ looking at that sensor, and reading this:

    The device is made of polycarbonate, and is about as thick as the Nokia Lumia 920 in the middle, but is highly tapered at both ends, giving the impression of a much slimmer device.
    The lens housing is round in shape and does not protrude much. The flash is Xenon, and the flash and lens are both smaller than the Nokia 808 Pureview. Next to the flash is a small red LED which may be a focus assist light.
    The lens also has an automatic cover that opens when the camera app is started.
    The number of megapixels were not marked on the prototype, with “XX megapixels” only being written on the lens housing.
    There is a new camera app called “Nokia Pro Camera”with a completely new interface. There is also manual focus available through the app. The regular photo app is also available.
    The screen size and resolution is same as 920, and appears to be AMOLED. The speaker holes are at the bottom as the handset.
    The handset was much lighter than the Nokia Lumia 920."

    It might not be the same camera pack.
    05-17-2013 03:34 PM
  4. JustToClarify's Avatar
    They need to stick a 5" on this thing pronto and scrap whatever silly 4.5" prototype they have. Ideally it should be a 1080p display, but having to wait for Microsoft's slow *** 1080p support late in the year, which should've been supported with WP8 from the get go, means Nokia can't utilize their early to market advantage, or really test my patience when so many other manufacturers are gunning for Nokia now in the cameraphone department with Sony and Samsung throwing their hats in. I know it's cold in Finland, but that's no excuse for being frozen in time.
    in that case it would be huge and weigh over 200 and possibly 250 grams, with at least 3000 mAh battery having hard time to cope with all that processing...
    05-18-2013 01:01 PM
  5. vlad0's Avatar
    Steve, and a few others, called this situations a while ago..

    EOS, the mysterious Nokia camera flagship that's yet to come?
    05-18-2013 08:18 PM
  6. jmajid's Avatar
    Steve, and a few others, called this situations a while ago..

    EOS, the mysterious Nokia camera flagship that's yet to come?
    im not so sure of downgrading the size of the sensor to something smaller than the N8 would be something that Nokia would pursue.
    While i read both AAWP and AAS, i have seen that Steve has become more and more a skeptic than a believer.
    I believe there will be a device this summer, a half way house lets say, but im not ready to call it a failure until its announced and we see the specifications and its capability.
    I firmly believe a graphene sensor is in Nokia's future, holiday 2013 or 2014 spring.
    05-18-2013 09:17 PM
  7. FavBrowser's Avatar
    im not so sure of downgrading the size of the sensor to something smaller than the N8 would be something that Nokia would pursue.
    While i read both AAWP and AAS, i have seen that Steve has become more and more a skeptic than a believer.
    I believe there will be a device this summer, a half way house lets say, but im not ready to call it a failure until its announced and we see the specifications and its capability.
    I firmly believe a graphene sensor is in Nokia's future, holiday 2013 or 2014 spring.
    Enough graphene to cover the head of a pin would cost upwards of 1,000

    Hero material: 10 fascinating facts about graphene Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog
    05-19-2013 06:29 AM
  8. jmajid's Avatar
    Enough graphene to cover the head of a pin would cost upwards of €1,000

    Hero material: 10 fascinating facts about graphene – Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog
    did you see the entire video/article?
    the sensor wont be entirely graphene - its graphene based.
    As with anything new, the costs of production and development are always high to begin with; no doubt this is the reason that Nokia is investing its money into the technology.
    Nokia Research Center participates in the Graphene Flagship EU pilot | Nokia Research Center
    towards the bottom of this article...
    "The first commercial products are expected to enter the market in 2013 or 2014 according to recent estimates."
    Not to say this is going to be a Nokia product but...
    05-19-2013 08:30 AM
  9. wizzackr's Avatar
    The biggest problem is the supposed 4.5" OLED display. One of the reasons why I don't want to buy a dedicated camera like the Sony RX100 is their dinky 3" screens. I can't enjoy the images or share them around the room with that thing. The 4.5" is small by today's standards. Nokia needs to get in with the times and stop living in its own little self-made bubble. Otherwise it will be no different than Apple. The standard is 5" now and Samsung can achieve this on the Galaxy S4 in the same footprint as the 4.5" Lumia 920. That's 0.5" measured diagonally and it is a massive difference in screen size while the width and height isn't any different than a Lumia 920. It's just Nokia loves their thick *** bezels that serve no purpose beyond aesthetics.
    Couldn't agree more - if Nokia's next flagship has a screen of <=4.5" I'm looking elsewhere.
    05-19-2013 11:12 AM
  10. vlad0's Avatar
    If it has anything over 4.5 I would be looking elsewhere.. its really hard to make everyone happy :)

    I've been experimenting with the 41Mpix sensor.. and you can push this thing pretty hard overall.. I am impressed. I've been shooting in pureview mode (where the software combines pixels and cleans the junk) so far, but I can see how the full resolution mode can come in handy as well..

    You take in full res, and then just resize.. results are acceptable.

    Here the foreground is out of focus, but mid/far.. sublime details from such a small assembly
    If it has anything over 4.5 I would be looking elsewhere.. its really hard to make everyone happy :)

    I've been experimenting with the 41Mpix sensor.. and you can push this thing pretty hard overall.. I am impressed. I've been shooting in pureview mode (where the software combines pixels and cleans the junk) so far, but I can see how the full resolution mode can come in handy as well..

    You take in full res, and then just resize.. results are acceptable.

    Here the foreground is out of focus, but mid/far.. sublime details from such a small assembly



    So, even if they can't do oversampling on WP..i still hope they can use that same sensor.
    05-21-2013 07:02 PM
  11. wizzackr's Avatar
    If it has anything over 4.5 I would be looking elsewhere.. its really hard to make everyone happy :)
    True, but I take it you're talking about the physical footprint, right? As has been stated above you pretty much get the 5" screen 'for free' on the S4, as it's pretty much sharing the L920's footprint. I have a hard time seeing any reason for 'going to look elsewhere' if the physical dimensions stay the same while getting a bigger screen, no?

    Also, if the S3/4 sales figures are any indication of what the market demands, I'd rather have Nokia follow that than either mine or your personal opinion :)

    Finally: That photo looks amazing...
    vlad0 likes this.
    05-22-2013 03:58 AM
  12. jmajid's Avatar
    agreed that photo is really great :)
    I have some problems still trying to get the 808 to focus on what i want.... so i end up with a soft focus... might be moving at the time of the photo being taken... i have tried shifting from the shutter button to using the soft key and it helps a little....
    But yes, taking 41MP shots and then cropping etc. can give some really nice details even still.
    Must say though that the S4 camera does a pretty decent job considering its doing it with a 13MP sensor and software tricks.
    05-22-2013 10:16 AM
  13. vlad0's Avatar
    Fresh info.. lets hope that its true

    Nokia’s Lumia EOS Will Sport a 41 Megapixel Camera: Coming July 9! | Mobile Geeks

    agreed that photo is really great :)
    I have some problems still trying to get the 808 to focus on what i want.... so i end up with a soft focus... might be moving at the time of the photo being taken... i have tried shifting from the shutter button to using the soft key and it helps a little....
    But yes, taking 41MP shots and then cropping etc. can give some really nice details even still.
    Must say though that the S4 camera does a pretty decent job considering its doing it with a 13MP sensor and software tricks.
    The S4 does well mainly because of that potent DSP they have in there... and of course the jpeg processing is good as well.
    jmajid likes this.
    05-22-2013 07:23 PM
  14. jmajid's Avatar
    Fresh info.. lets hope that its true

    Nokia’s Lumia EOS Will Sport a 41 Megapixel Camera: Coming July 9! | Mobile Geeks

    The S4 does well mainly because of that potent DSP they have in there... and of course the jpeg processing is good as well.
    very interesting article - not quite a drive by article, in that it actually was written to provide extra detail and also tried to provide substantiation too.
    I have heard Mary Jo Foley mention another device ( i think once she mentioned EOS) coming this summer.

    I am still a little unsure about this July device being the full 41MP device or a cut down version of it....
    and the mention of the OIS being present - not sure if they can fit all that with the same size camera module into something thinner than the 920.
    THAT would be a feat of engineering! (see above photos from @tissotti comparing the 920 and 808 camera modules)

    Also still holding out for the next gen of camera modules - especially after reading the latest Nokia conversations article about imaging:
    Bringing in the best imaging technology through NGP – Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog
    Could this be late 2013 or early 2014? I think early 2014 now as Nokia would be shooting themselves in the foot hammering out so many devices in one year... got to leave us wanting more :)
    vlad0 and tissotti like this.
    05-23-2013 08:34 AM
  15. vlad0's Avatar
    ^ I think that's why the source from mnb said that there are two EOS devices, one based on current gen (less mpix) and one on next gen (phase 1 system) ... it kind of makes sense, but they might've found a way to use phase 1 with the current gen cpu/gpu..

    We will find out soon :)
    05-23-2013 09:52 AM
  16. FavBrowser's Avatar
    ^ I think that's why the source from mnb said that there are two EOS devices, one based on current gen (less mpix) and one on next gen (phase 1 system) ... it kind of makes sense, but they might've found a way to use phase 1 with the current gen cpu/gpu..

    We will find out soon :)
    HTC Titan II had separate chip to process camera so did 808
    05-24-2013 04:33 AM
  17. tissotti's Avatar
    HTC Titan II had separate chip to process camera so did 808
    If it was that simple, I'm sure we already had Lumia with real PureView sensor inside.

    On 808 PureView the "companion processor" is handling 1 billion pixels per second and 16x oversampling. Qualcomm 600 and Qualcomm 800 were the first off the shelf SoC's that are even capable to handle the 41MP sensor, but even there we are just talking about supporting the sensor, not the heavy duty oversampling 808 PureView got.
    05-24-2013 04:57 AM
  18. vlad0's Avatar
    ^ they can't shrink the physical size of the sensor and the optics required for it ... unless we are talking about a brand new technology.

    If they use the same assembly, the phone will have a hump.. the only thing they can do is blend it in with the body even more seamlessly. For example, the 808's hump is metal, because that acts as a FM transmitter antenna.. the new one might not need that so they can use the whole back to blend it in.

    Also, if they decide on a unibody design.. no need for a back cover, which means custom made battery, less room required for it.. ala iPhone

    If it was that simple, I'm sure we already had Lumia with real PureView sensor inside.

    On 808 PureView the "companion processor" is handling 1 billion pixels per second and 16x oversampling. Qualcomm 600 and Qualcomm 800 were the first off the shelf SoC's that are even capable to handle the 41MP sensor, but even there we are just talking about supporting the sensor, not the heavy duty oversampling 808 PureView got.
    Correct. We will have to wait and see how they handle this.. I am really curious to be honest :)

    HTC Titan II had separate chip to process camera so did 808
    That was on Windows CE .. and I ma not saying that its impossible, but I am sure that the Phase 1 system is a bit more complicated than whatever HTC had in the titan 2.

    Whatever it is, something is stopping them.. we could rule out the hardware because the camera system is in mass production already, and we know that it works. Its either a managerial decision to delay the product, in which case they are crazy, or they are still trying to figure out how to implement it on Windows Phone..
    Juanma Herrera likes this.
    05-24-2013 10:05 AM
  19. Michael-Dallas's Avatar
    This phone exists and prototypes were received at a major carrier earlier this week...
    Juanma Herrera and tissotti like this.
    05-24-2013 06:54 PM
  20. tissotti's Avatar
    This phone exists and prototypes were received at a major carrier earlier this week...
    Any idea about the device as far as megapixels go?
    05-24-2013 10:38 PM
  21. John20212's Avatar
    source?
    05-24-2013 10:57 PM
  22. sharprobert's Avatar
    Hello.
    Rumors about the Nokia EOS, the Windows Phone with a true 41MP PureView camera, had been circulating since January this year. Later on in April, MyNokiaBlog detailed some rumored specifications about the device, although they claim that the details have not been finalised at that time.
    Last edited by sharprobert; 06-01-2013 at 07:19 AM.
    05-25-2013 06:12 AM
  23. Michael-Dallas's Avatar
    Any idea about the device as far as megapixels go?
    41mp sensor(s), 33mp-ish pics -- the difference in mp between the 2 is accomodate for zoom and image stabilization.

    A certain tablet will also be entering lab for a major carrier very soon...

    source?
    Yes, I have them. :)
    05-25-2013 11:19 AM
  24. jmajid's Avatar
    41mp sensor(s), 33mp-ish pics -- the difference in mp between the 2 is accomodate for zoom and image stabilization.

    A certain tablet will also be entering lab for a major carrier very soon...

    Yes, I have them. :)
    So are you referring to one device or two (phone)?
    and tablet? wow...
    3 letter carrier? :)
    Thanks for info / rumor :)
    05-25-2013 12:06 PM
  25. vlad0's Avatar
    the difference in mp between the 2 is accomodate for zoom and image stabilization.
    What about this ?



    Its determent by the aspect ratio ..

    34 in 16:9
    38 in 4:3

    Also, can you tell us if there is oversampling being done ? Those are 3/5/8Mpix images on the 808.
    tissotti likes this.
    05-25-2013 03:13 PM
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