06-13-2013 04:05 PM
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  1. Juanma Herrera's Avatar
    41mp sensor(s), 33mp-ish pics -- the difference in mp between the 2 is accomodate for zoom and image stabilization.

    A certain tablet will also be entering lab for a major carrier very soon...



    Yes, I have them. :)
    4.5" screen or a bigger one?
    BSI Sensor?
    Will it be launched soon?


    Thank you!
    05-25-2013 04:41 PM
  2. tissotti's Avatar
    4.5" screen or a bigger one?
    BSI Sensor?
    Will it be launched soon?


    Thank you!
    If it's indeed 41MP sensor, you would think it's the same used on 808PV and that certainly had BSI ensor.
    05-25-2013 05:08 PM
  3. Juanma Herrera's Avatar
    If it's indeed 41MP sensor, you would think it's the same used on 808PV and that certainly had BSI ensor.
    Actually I think 808PV sensor is NOT a BSI sensor, but FSI.

    How PureView on Nokia Lumia 920 differs to Nokia 808 PureView | NokNok.tv
    vlad0 likes this.
    05-25-2013 05:24 PM
  4. tissotti's Avatar
    Actually I think 808PV sensor is NOT a BSI sensor, but FSI.

    How PureView on Nokia Lumia 920 differs to Nokia 808 PureView | NokNok.tv
    Interesting, always thought it used BSI, but googling around I find claims on both sides. Nokia developer page or 808 PureView technical sheets don't mention either.

    Anyways as 808 PureView owners I would be over the moon if they use that exact same sensor. I really wasn't expecting them to do it because of its size, especially if this will be announced this summer like rumored.
    Juanma Herrera likes this.
    05-25-2013 05:45 PM
  5. vlad0's Avatar
    Interesting, always thought it used BSI, but googling around I find claims on both sides. Nokia developer page or 808 PureView technical sheets don't mention either.

    Anyways as 808 PureView owners I would be over the moon if they use that exact same sensor. I really wasn't expecting them to do it because of its size, especially if this will be announced this summer like rumored.
    The whole BSI thing, at least thus far, has been more aimed toward marketing than anything else. There are physical limitations on how small you can make the pixels on a FSI sensor. As far as know 1.4 microns is the cut off, otherwise it gets messy.

    All the OEMs had to figure out a way how NOT to increase the sensor size, but at the same time bring up the megapixel count, which is what sells the camera to the mass market... you know, years of marketing telling you that more mpix = better IQ.

    BSI allows for smaller than 1.4 micron pixels, so.. they found a way to increase mpix count without having to increase the sensor size.

    All pro and semi pro DSLRs are equipped with FSI sensor..

    Both the N8, and the 808 are FSI based.
    Juanma Herrera likes this.
    05-26-2013 04:32 AM
  6. Juanma Herrera's Avatar
    It's not only marketing. Look at this pics. iPhone 5: Exmor R sensor (BSI first gen), f 2.4, 1/17s, ISO 400. Xperia Z: Exmor RS (stacked sensor, new BSI gen). Same sensor size (1/3"), more pixel density (1.12microns vs 1.4 microns in iPhone), same shoot parameters: f2.4, 1/16, ISO 400. The difference is +0.7eV in Xperia Z, produced only by the new tech sensor. Imagine the difference between a new BSI sensor and FSI, and a 1.4 microns sensor instead of 1.12...

    iPhone 5

    Xperia Z
    05-26-2013 08:16 AM
  7. tissotti's Avatar
    It's no doubt more than just marketing, but phones like N8 still seem to perform better. Let alone 808 PureView that's on its own league.
    Though I wonder what's the reason for Nokia not really going forward with BSI? There must be some technical reason especially on 808 PureView 41MP sensor because costs on with that camera module didn't seem to be the problem.

    Sony Xperia Z is impressive in a right conditions and no doubt helped by BSI there. Especially the one you showed above. You can see there's clearly software play going on, but it looks more natural than on Lumia 920.


    N8 on the left, Xperia Z on the right.














    balcony_808.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails interiorcrop.jpg   balcony_n8.jpg  
    Last edited by tissotti; 05-26-2013 at 12:42 PM.
    jmajid likes this.
    05-26-2013 11:23 AM
  8. jmajid's Avatar
    and thats why i still have my N8 and i love my 808 Pureview :)
    nice comparison tissotti :)
    any of those cropped?
    05-26-2013 11:36 AM
  9. Juanma Herrera's Avatar
    It's no doubt more than just marketing, but phones like N8 still seem to perform better. Let alone 808 PureView that's on its own league.
    Though I wonder what's the reason for Nokia not really going forward with BSI? There must be some technical reason especially on 808 PureView 41MP sensor because costs on with that camera module didn't seem to be the problem.

    Sony Xperia Z is impressive in a right conditions and no doubt helped by BSI there.


    N8 on the left, Xperia Z on the right. Especially the one you showed above. You can see there's clearly software play going on, but it looks more natural than on Lumia 920.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Those shots were taken before the last Xperia Z update, which makes the camera far better.

    Anyways, of course N8 and 808 overperform Xperia Z because of the huge sensors! But what I say is if those phones had a BSI sensor, the pics would be even better than they actually are.

    I wanted a Lumia 920, but finally I went for the Sony, but I'm looking forward to Lumia EOS since 808 was launched (I love real pureview technology but I didn't want to go back for symbian...)
    tissotti likes this.
    05-26-2013 12:00 PM
  10. tissotti's Avatar
    Those shots were taken before the last Xperia Z update, which makes the camera far better.

    Anyways, of course N8 and 808 overperform Xperia Z because of the huge sensors! But what I say is if those phones had a BSI sensor, the pics would be even better than they actually are.

    I wanted a Lumia 920, but finally I went for the Sony, but I'm looking forward to Lumia EOS since 808 was launched (I love real pureview technology but I didn't want to go back for symbian...)
    Ah didn't know about that. About the update that is.

    And I can totally see why you would not want 808 PureView. Haven't really ever been too big of a Symbian fan and my 808 PV next to Lumia 920 is more of a camera/music player than a smartphone. Funnily enough 808 PureView at its price is probably one of the best point and shoots out there. if I was looking for Android phone once again, my choice would certainly be Xperia Z or HTC one.
    Just wanna see no compromise 808PV module stuck on a Windows Phone. They can add BSI, OIS if they want to, but I just wanna see them not go backwards like they did with Lumia 920 camera. 808 PureView sensor is one of those rare things in the past 3 years of smartphone hardware that any user can see the difference beyond all the branding right away and it gives great amount of real play value with the PureView 3MP, 5MP, 8MP modes, plus the full 38MP mode. With stronger base hardware and more software work we could see even more functions being sourced from that amazing camera module.

    any of those cropped?
    They are cropped, yes.
    Last edited by tissotti; 05-26-2013 at 01:15 PM.
    Juanma Herrera likes this.
    05-26-2013 12:51 PM
  11. vlad0's Avatar
    I use my 808 as a main smartphone.. no issues at all. For me the only problem is the browser, and there are no US bank apps.. which I miss from my iphone 5. I actually use the iphone 5 as a weekend/gaming phone hah

    I didn't say that it was all marketing, I said mostly, and I used "thus far" .. there is potential in the tech for sure. Also pixel density seems to be a field that they haven't fully exploited yet..

    We could say that Nokia did with the 808, but they took a completely different route.

    The phase 1 system has tons of potential.. I am pushing it toward the 15-16Mpix range and the detail and noise levels are still holding up.


    Of course, the higher you go in terms of ISO, the lower you have to bring the pixel count.. 5Mpix pureview mode being the best

    iPhone 5 (800 iso)

    808 (800 iso)

    100% crop
    iPhone 5

    808
    05-26-2013 02:08 PM
  12. Juanma Herrera's Avatar
    I use my 808 as a main smartphone.. no issues at all. For me the only problem is the browser, and there are no US bank apps.. which I miss from my iphone 5. I actually use the iphone 5 as a weekend/gaming phone hah

    I didn't say that it was all marketing, I said mostly, and I used "thus far" .. there is potential in the tech for sure. Also pixel density seems to be a field that they haven't fully exploited yet..

    We could say that Nokia did with the 808, but they took a completely different route.

    The phase 1 system has tons of potential.. I am pushing it toward the 15-16Mpix range and the detail and noise levels are still holding up.
    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...087GucI0_n.jpg

    Of course, the higher you go in terms of ISO, the lower you have to bring the pixel count.. 5Mpix pureview mode being the best

    iPhone 5 (800 iso)
    http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/201305...s/F8Chu41i.jpg
    808 (800 iso)
    http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/201305...s/Tn2IUOID.jpg
    100% crop
    iPhone 5
    http://i.imgur.com/pChXcga.jpg
    808
    http://i.imgur.com/XKVWEr7.jpg
    Love 808 pureview. If finally nokia doesn't implement that technology in its Wp series, I would think seriously about acquiring that phone. Actually my use of the phone is whatsapp, Facebook, forums and camera mainly. I'm not used to play and other stuff, but I like having a bigger screen :(


    Enviado desde mi C6603 usando Tapatalk 2
    05-26-2013 03:42 PM
  13. jmajid's Avatar
    I also use my 808 as my main phone, for skype, whatsapp, maps offline (when travelling outside the US) and online when in the US, some browsing mostly on opera mini and even the stock browser once in a while.
    But it was entirely because of the camera that i bought this device as an upgrade from my N8.
    As the above - it does everything i want and need.
    Juanma Herrera likes this.
    05-26-2013 07:07 PM
  14. Michael-Dallas's Avatar
    So are you referring to one device or two (phone)?
    and tablet? wow...
    3 letter carrier? :)
    Thanks for info / rumor :)
    Two devices - one phone (as discussed here), and one tablet. I don't know any specs on the tablet, unfortunately, just that it's headed to the carrier lab very soon (if it's not already there).

    4.5" screen or a bigger one?
    BSI Sensor?
    Will it be launched soon?


    Thank you!
    But to answer some of your questions, 4.5" AMOLED (same resolution as the 920), and currently running OS ver 8.0.10322.71. As far as launched soon, that is relative - if the carrier has it now, then it's in the carrier's lab for testing/certification; so if all goes well, then I'd give it 4-6 weeks for either an official announcement/unveiling... or launch. My guess is that it may be announced/unveiled at Microsoft build at end of June, which mimics what I observed w/ the 920 (when it got into carrier lab vs when it was given out at build vs when it was launched by the carrier).

    Some of the rumoured specs in the links in this thread are true, some are not. Regardless, this phone exists and a major carrier has picked it up.
    Juanma Herrera and jmajid like this.
    05-26-2013 07:35 PM
  15. vlad0's Avatar
    Some of the rumoured specs in the links in this thread are true, some are not. Regardless, this phone exists and a major carrier has picked it up.
    gotta be AT&T .. good for them. This is going to be a hit..

    even the stock browser once in a while.
    Have you tried to turn off flash, javascript, and auto reload ? The stock browser becomes much faster when if you do that.
    05-27-2013 01:45 AM
  16. FavBrowser's Avatar
    Two devices - one phone (as discussed here), and one tablet. I don't know any specs on the tablet, unfortunately, just that it's headed to the carrier lab very soon (if it's not already there).
    Nokia will be revealing Nokia Max for holiday season of 2013
    05-27-2013 06:05 AM
  17. Juanma Herrera's Avatar
    Nokia will be revealing Nokia Max for holiday season of 2013
    Do you mean summer or Christmas?
    05-27-2013 07:04 AM
  18. Juanma Herrera's Avatar
    Two devices - one phone (as discussed here), and one tablet. I don't know any specs on the tablet, unfortunately, just that it's headed to the carrier lab very soon (if it's not already there).


    But to answer some of your questions, 4.5" AMOLED (same resolution as the 920), and currently running OS ver 8.0.10322.71. As far as launched soon, that is relative - if the carrier has it now, then it's in the carrier's lab for testing/certification; so if all goes well, then I'd give it 4-6 weeks for either an official announcement/unveiling... or launch. My guess is that it may be announced/unveiled at Microsoft build at end of June, which mimics what I observed w/ the 920 (when it got into carrier lab vs when it was given out at build vs when it was launched by the carrier).

    Some of the rumoured specs in the links in this thread are true, some are not. Regardless, this phone exists and a major carrier has picked it up.

    And about the tablet... Is it a real tablet or a "phablet"? I would extremely love a 5.x" screen and EOS camera...
    Thank you !! :D
    05-27-2013 07:45 AM
  19. vlad0's Avatar
    I was hoping they would wait for BayTrail for the tablet.. or maybe even haswell, or AMD temash.

    I really hope its not Win RT based.. but knowing Nokia's affection for ARM CPUs, it very well might be.
    tissotti likes this.
    05-27-2013 10:57 AM
  20. tissotti's Avatar
    I was hoping they would wait for BayTrail for the tablet.. or maybe even haswell, or AMD temash.

    I really hope its not Win RT based.. but knowing Nokia's affection for ARM CPUs, it very well might be.
    Exactly.
    So far been happy for Nokia not going into this generation of ARM or intel tablets. They are simply not there yet, especially ARM side.
    I hope they will be on the haswell side or on the next generation of ARM SoC on Windows RT or I see little to no point releasing tablet in the next months.


    Hopefully the lackluster ARM Windows 8 sales and Surface RT domination have made them to go for Intel.
    05-27-2013 11:48 AM
  21. vlad0's Avatar
    .


    Hopefully the lackluster ARM Windows 8 sales and Surface RT domination have made them to go for Intel.
    I think there might still be a bit of a resentment between Intel and Nokia because of the MeeGo fiasco. The phone after the N9 was supposed to be Intel based.. in fact, the whole MeeGo line was supposed to be Intel powered.

    I am still hoping that one day we will see a Intel based WP device from Nokia.. that would be cool :)
    05-27-2013 01:29 PM
  22. tissotti's Avatar
    I think there might still be a bit of a resentment between Intel and Nokia because of the MeeGo fiasco. The phone after the N9 was supposed to be Intel based.. in fact, the whole MeeGo line was supposed to be Intel powered.

    I am still hoping that one day we will see a Intel based WP device from Nokia.. that would be cool :)
    True, but I doubt Intel would ever decline that offer from Nokia. It was Nokia after all that left Intel to its own with MeeGo.
    A bit off topic, but Intel was neither anywhere close to compete against ARM back in 2011-2012 on mobile phones, they still really aren't.
    05-27-2013 01:40 PM
  23. vlad0's Avatar
    ^ true.. the bet is on silvermont :)

    But back on topic, I wonder if we are going to see lossless zooming in the new device. Considering that they are using the 41Mpix sensor, there is certainly enough pixels to do that with.. especially handy during video recording.
    05-27-2013 08:10 PM
  24. Juanma Herrera's Avatar
    I've heard some new rumours today about an "Eos 1" this summer and a better "eos 2" in Christmas. What do you think? The second one could be revealed beside the new wp8.1 update...

    Pd: I think the difference between 41 and 33 mpx is too big. 4:3 mode in 808 means 38 mpx...
    05-27-2013 09:09 PM
  25. tissotti's Avatar
    I've heard some new rumours today about an "Eos 1" this summer and a better "eos 2" in Christmas. What do you think? The second one could be revealed beside the new wp8.1 update...

    Pd: I think the difference between 41 and 33 mpx is too big. 4:3 mode in 808 means 38 mpx...
    I'm still not sure if that's right, the 33MP part. Even so that wont be a problem and is something I wont care about. You will be using 3-8MP PureView as everyday shooter with lossless zoom. If you want to take +30MP picture you are free to take that. If anything maybe Nokia could add something to the full megapixel mode. Though marketing wise I guess some could be disappointed that they can "only" take 33MP pictures? Even if those megapixels would be used for something like on PureView mode.


    As for EOS 1 and EOS 2, I really have no idea. If this summer phone will really carry that full blown 41MP camera right away It would seem weird to release another full blown PureView phone in Q4 already. Certainly they will improve and use that module again.
    My initial idea was that Nokia would need to wait for Qualcomm 600 or 800 to get that sensor inside the phone, so they would have released stopgap with 10-22MP phone before that.
    05-27-2013 09:24 PM
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