01-31-2014 08:28 AM
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  1. Jcmg62's Avatar
    The rumours refuse to die....and frankly there are enough screenshots posted all over the tech websites to argue that Nokia really are set to launch an Android. Maybe, just maybe, this is the start of a cosier working relationship between Microsoft and Google, which wouldn't be a bad thong for us WP users.
    LTTG likes this.
    01-28-2014 01:20 AM
  2. anony_mouse's Avatar
    An independent Nokia should have made Android phones from the start, of course, but this project does seem unlikely to survive the Microsoft acquisition.
    Last edited by anony_mouse; 01-28-2014 at 11:07 AM. Reason: corrected spelling mistake
    01-28-2014 02:31 AM
  3. SyntacticSyntax's Avatar
    Seems like i'm buying Nokia X rather than 520.
    01-28-2014 09:18 AM
  4. tgp's Avatar
    An Android with a good WP launcher could make a better Windows Phone than a Windows Phone! It would have all the apps you need, better business support, reliable notifications, and Live Tiles would work better. In fact, they could be more functional as widgets, but keep the aesthetically pleasing Live Tile style.
    01-28-2014 09:27 AM
  5. anony_mouse's Avatar
    An Android with a good WP launcher could make a better Windows Phone than a Windows Phone! It would have all the apps you need, better business support, reliable notifications, and Live Tiles would work better. In fact, they could be more functional as widgets, but keep the aesthetically pleasing Live Tile style.
    I have suggested this a few times - and everyone here always hates the idea. Will be interesting to see the results this time!
    01-28-2014 10:50 AM
  6. theefman's Avatar
    An Android with a good WP launcher could make a better Windows Phone than a Windows Phone! It would have all the apps you need, better business support, reliable notifications, and Live Tiles would work better. In fact, they could be more functional as widgets, but keep the aesthetically pleasing Live Tile style.
    Basically thats the equivalent of sticking lipstick on a pig because underneath its still the same insecure, data mining android. If this goes through under Microsoft they are basically saying to everyone that they don't believe WP is any good if they have to resort to running a competitors OS and dressing it up as their own OS, WP will and should deservedly just die in that case.
    01-28-2014 10:59 AM
  7. RJ Priest's Avatar
    Rumour: The Nokia X Will Be a Super-Cheap Android

    Saw this article earlier today. Keep in mind that this is supposed to be "forked" Android for use in the Asha line (from what I understand). It's an Android device like the Kindle Fire, not a Android-Android device.
    01-28-2014 07:03 PM
  8. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    I have suggested this a few times - and everyone here always hates the idea. Will be interesting to see the results this time!
    An Android with a good WP launcher could make a better Windows Phone than a Windows Phone! It would have all the apps you need, better business support, reliable notifications, and Live Tiles would work better. In fact, they could be more functional as widgets, but keep the aesthetically pleasing Live Tile style.
    Um no. There are plenty of skins on android that look like windows phone start screen but as soon as you launch them it is true and true android. True diehard fans of windows phone prefer the live tile aspect vs the widgets of android and I for one don't want my phone to become anything like android. Keep that mess on galaxies and the likes.
    01-28-2014 07:19 PM
  9. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Basically thats the equivalent of sticking lipstick on a pig because underneath its still the same insecure, data mining android. If this goes through under Microsoft they are basically saying to everyone that they don't believe WP is any good if they have to resort to running a competitors OS and dressing it up as their own OS, WP will and should deservedly just die in that case.
    if this is the case and Microsoft does wind up moving to release this device, I will likely go ahead and move to an iPhone 5s and or 6 because that tells me Microsoft truly has no faith in their own operating system to use the very OS of a competitor not playing fair with them.
    01-28-2014 07:20 PM
  10. 5150 Joker's Avatar
    Well business wise it may make more sense to fork android and ditch WP. MS would be able to bundle all their custom changes and apps while still retaining Androids mature platform. With WP making virtually no gains in the US market I could see this happening. I'll probably move on to the Apple phablet after its released. WP has been a fun experience but ultimately it still feels very beta.

    Sent from my Yellow Nokia 1520 (RM-937)
    01-28-2014 09:34 PM
  11. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    Well business wise it may make more sense to fork android and ditch WP. MS would be able to bundle all their custom changes and apps while still retaining Androids mature platform. With WP making virtually no gains in the US market I could see this happening. I'll probably move on to the Apple phablet after its released. WP has been a fun experience but ultimately it still feels very beta.

    Sent from my Yellow Nokia 1520 (RM-937)
    business wise this would not make much sense simply because if they did this, I think they would lose a lot of consumer respect and confidence. They screwed up when they did the windows phone 7 to 8 thing. If they did this again and essentially switched os yet again and reset, there is no way that they will ever have any success in my opinion.

    Furthermore a forked android doesn't guarantee much success. For all the good it does amazon,their tablets aren't even the most popular tablets I don't think and they have to sell them at an extreme loss and recoup the cash elsewhere. So i don't see how going android exclusively with a forked version will be any better than using windows phone

    I am fine as is with windows phone but if Microsoft does in fact release this phone, my confidence in Microsoft is gone then.
    01-28-2014 11:45 PM
  12. anony_mouse's Avatar
    if this is the case and Microsoft does wind up moving to release this device, I will likely go ahead and move to an iPhone 5s and or 6 because that tells me Microsoft truly has no faith in their own operating system to use the very OS of a competitor not playing fair with them.
    So, you would not buy a product because you don't like another product released by the same company? I guess that's similar to not buying Kitkats because Nestle sell baby milk in third world countries - kind of admirable!
    01-29-2014 12:32 AM
  13. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Rumour: The Nokia X Will Be a Super-Cheap Android

    Saw this article earlier today. Keep in mind that this is supposed to be "forked" Android for use in the Asha line (from what I understand). It's an Android device like the Kindle Fire, not a Android-Android device.
    Why not just use Windows Phone? According to everyone here, WP is hugely faster and more efficient than Android, so it makes no sense to put Android on a cheap device. It would make more sense to use WP on the cheap phones, and go with the allegedly more resource-hungry Android on more expensive products.
    01-29-2014 12:35 AM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    Well business wise it may make more sense to fork android and ditch WP.
    Only in the short term... at best. I think forking Android would be a terrible business decision. There is only so much you can do with an OS until it is no longer compatible with the main branch, over which Microsoft would have no control. Taking Android and integrating all of MS' technologies, while keeping it compatible with Google's annual updates would be prohibitively expensive, even for MS. If app compatibility is what you want, MS would be far better off just implementing an Android VM, like BlackBerry did. If all you want is the same amount of configurability as Android, then MS would be better off just pushing WP further in that direction, but obviously that isn't the path MS envisions for WP.

    An independent Nokia should have made Android phones from the start, of course, but this project does seem unlikely to survive the Microsoft acquisition.
    If you are saying Nokia should have committed themselves fully to Android... maybe. It's impossible to say if that would have changed anything about Samsung's rise to king of the Android space. I'm pretty sure Nokia would also have sorely missed the annual injection of half a billion dollars from MS.

    I doubt you are saying Nokia should have made both WP and Android devices, because that would obviously have been a disaster.

    I am fine as is with windows phone but if Microsoft does in fact release this phone, my confidence in Microsoft is gone then.
    I have a completely different view of this. I don't think it would be much of an issue for MS to release such a device, because these devices aren't competing with Lumias or Galaxys or any other smartphone for that matter. These devices are competing with expensive feature phones or $50 off-contract Android junkware. If MS wants to compete at the lowest tier of the market, it's far better to do it with Android than to mutilate WP's chassis specs to become compatible with such crippled hardware. Slap a few MS services on top and it becomes the perfect platform to pull in future WP customers once the current WP8 chassis spec become cheap enough to compete in the sub $50 range. It's really not that bad an idea.

    I'm not saying it's going to happen though. I too am sceptical this device will survive MS' acquisition, but MS could definitely do worse.
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-29-2014 at 12:51 AM. Reason: Spelling
    01-29-2014 12:42 AM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    business wise this would not make much sense simply because if they did this, I think they would lose a lot of consumer respect and confidence. They screwed up when they did the windows phone 7 to 8 thing. If they did this again and essentially switched os yet again and reset, there is no way that they will ever have any success in my opinion.
    I guess it depends on how much importance Microsoft puts on selling devices. Nokia had to sell devices, since that's where their profit came from. They had no vested interest in the OS itself, other than the commitment to Microsoft. They were a hardware company, at least post-Symbian. Microsoft might look at it differently. However, I'm sure that <5% market share after 3+ years on the market is a disappointment, and not at all where they expected to be at this time. Microsoft might be at the place where they've got to shake things up. Put out a version of Android for the benefits of a mature OS, and integrate high quality apps for Microsoft services and also tie it tight into Microsoft's ecosystem. That could potentially be as much benefit as having their own OS. Google puts some of their best apps on iOS, and it seems to work for them.

    It would certainly be interesting to see a Microsoft version of Android. Like I said in an earlier post, Microsoft's skin could make the OS what Microsoft so far hasn't been able to do with WP. The live tiles could be updated constantly & reliably, and there wouldn't be problems with notifications not coming through. Skype could actually work properly! Microsoft could integrate Office more deeply. In fact, about all they'd have to do is to remove the Office 365 requirement from the current Office app. Email would be much more functional. And then there's VPN support for those that need it.
    01-29-2014 12:45 AM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    Why not just use Windows Phone? According to everyone here, WP is hugely faster and more efficient than Android, so it makes no sense to put Android on a cheap device. It would make more sense to use WP on the cheap phones, and go with the allegedly more resource-hungry Android on more expensive products.
    WP's efficiency comes largely from the fact that it runs on a standardized hardware platform, meaning the OS can consider and make use of specific hardware features and performance characteristics that it otherwise couldn't. The thing is, you can't yet build WP8 hardware at these low price points. To make WP8 compatible with such hardware would require throwing the current hardware spec overboard. That would be a terrible idea, as it would make the OS worse for all of us.

    That's why.
    01-29-2014 12:45 AM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    It would certainly be interesting to see a Microsoft version of Android.
    You are envisioning a true Android device, that ships with all the apps and services we normally attribute to Android. That is not what this would be. This thread exists in somewhat of a fantasy realm, where many picture the Normandy to be something completely different from what it could ever be. How many people think of the Kindle as an Android device? Well, it is an Android device. This would surely be more Android'ish than that, but nothing like what most of you are envisioning.
    01-29-2014 12:59 AM
  18. tgp's Avatar
    You are envisioning a true Android device, that ships with all the apps and services we normally attribute to Android. That is not what this would be. This thread exists in somewhat of a fantasy realm, where many picture the Normandy to be something completely different from what it could ever be. How many people think of the Kindle as an Android device? Well, it is an Android device. This would surely be more Android'ish than that, but nothing like what most of you are envisioning.
    No, I am envisioning exactly what I think you're describing. But anyway, we don't know what this will be, or even IF it will be. It'll be fun to watch the drama unfold!
    01-29-2014 01:01 AM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    No, I am envisioning exactly what I think you're describing. But anyway, we don't know what this will be, or even IF it will be. It'll be fun to watch the drama unfold!
    Okay then. In that case I suspect we have a different opinion in regard to how much MS would be willing to invest into a second-track OS. I made my assumption based on all the things you expect MS to offer for such a device, which is a couple hundred million dollars worth of work. I don't see how MS could recoup those software engineering investments selling bottom of the barrel hardware. If MS wants to offer the things you mentioned, then it needs those devices selling at higher price points too... that would mean dropping WP, which I don't see happening (don't want to get into the discussion of whether it would be a good idea).

    Completely agree that we don't know exactly what this will be. I'm sceptical it will ever be anything at all. We do know what it means to fork Android however, and we also know that its purpose is/was to replace the Asha line, not the WP line.
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-29-2014 at 02:55 AM. Reason: spelling
    01-29-2014 01:12 AM
  20. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    So, you would not buy a product because you don't like another product released by the same company? I guess that's similar to not buying Kitkats because Nestle sell baby milk in third world countries - kind of admirable!
    LMFAO.

    I am really going to need for you to re-read my post again. I never said i would stop using Microsoft services because they released an android phone. I said i would stop using Windows Phone entirely because to me that screams that they literally have NO FAITH in their own operating system or the will to try and compete that they'd go and use Android(Forked or not) considering how google is and what not.

    I am not going to continue paying money for a company who seems to not have much confidence in their OS because i'd hate to become like the windows phone 7 users where out of nowhere Microsoft decides...Hey, things aren't looking up for us now and let's decide to reset and start anew...this time with android, with a Microsoft flair.

    If Microsoft releases this phone...I guess I will can't complain, as it is not in the same league as Lumias i would(1020, 1520 types of lumias). But i do feel as if this DOES undercut phones like Lumia 520/521 and 525 simply because

    Why get a Lumia 520/521 or 525 when you get a phone that looks the exact same and has access to android/google services? Anyone who says this phone is not competing with Lumia 520/521/525 range is not giving it full thought in my opinion.
    01-29-2014 01:38 AM
  21. vaultsurvivor's Avatar
    Don't want to wade in too much, but at the moment its Nokia driving the ship, and they have a duty to their shareholders to find new ways to make profit. And until the acquisition goes through they have to make every effort to look as independent from Microsoft as possible. Also, Nokia release their own asha range for low end (simple/cheap) hardware... Does that show a lack of faith? Each person is entitled to their own opinion but im really not that fussed about Normandy either way. Itll probably be ignored by 99.9% of the population if it gets released anyway lol...
    01-29-2014 02:01 AM
  22. anony_mouse's Avatar
    If you are saying Nokia should have committed themselves fully to Android... maybe. It's impossible to say if that would have changed anything about Samsung's rise to king of the Android space. I'm pretty sure Nokia would also have sorely missed the annual injection of half a billion dollars from MS.

    I doubt you are saying Nokia should have made both WP and Android devices, because that would obviously have been a disaster.
    Why would it have been a disaster to make both Android and WP? Most major phone manufacturers (all except Apple and Blackberry?) have done just that.
    Of course, we can never know how Nokia going with only Android, or with Android and WP, would have turned out. But it's interesting to wonder what could have been achieved if they hadn't locked themselves into an unpopular mobile platform (and when the deal was signed, WP had been in the market for almost six months and was proving to be a *very* unpopular mobile platform). Of course, the USD 250 million per quarter is a nice subsidy, but was it worth it?
    01-29-2014 02:12 AM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    Why get a Lumia 520/521 or 525 when you get a phone that looks the exact same and has access to android/google services? Anyone who says this phone is not competing with Lumia 520/521/525 range is not giving it full thought in my opinion.
    I think you are judging this from a western industrialized standpoint. For you and I, whether we pay $40 or $80 for a smartphone doesn't make much difference. In that sense I agree with you... it seems like the 520 and this device are in the same category. If you're earning a monthly salary of $300 however, then those $40 bucks difference are huge. That's a completely different category of device. If this competes with the Lumia 520, then so do the Asha devices, but in the western industrialized world, Asha devices are almost irrelevant... I expect this will be similar.
    01-29-2014 02:12 AM
  24. anony_mouse's Avatar
    WP's efficiency comes largely from the fact that it runs on a standardized hardware platform, meaning the OS can consider and make use of specific hardware features and performance characteristics that it otherwise couldn't. The thing is, you can't yet build WP8 hardware at these low price points. To make WP8 compatible with such hardware would require throwing the current hardware spec overboard. That would be a terrible idea, as it would make the OS worse for all of us.

    That's why.
    I remain to be convinced about a lot of this alleged optimisation. Most hardware features, e.g. graphics acceleration, are quite well standardised and Android can make use of them just as well as WP. Other critical points for performance as CPU speed, number of cores, memory capacity, memory bandwidth, flash performance, etc, which are not something the software can be optimised for. What specific hardware features and performance characteristics do you have in mind?
    01-29-2014 02:17 AM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    Why would it have been a disaster to make both Android and WP?
    I could write you a very long business analysis on that topic, but it's not really related to this thread, and I don't think it's worth getting into anymore. It's already been discussed to death anyway, and if you still think Nokia could have pulled that off, I probably can't convince you otherwise, not to mention that it's all very hypothetical... interesting, sure, but not really relevant anymore.

    Most of my argument would boil down to Nokia having to split their resources between WP and Android, basically making them ineffective in both markets. Nokia wouldn't have been able to achieve anything more HTC did with WP, and I don't see how half-a-Nokia could have gone up against Samsung, at least not in Europe or the U.S. where the high margin devices are sold. IMHO the dual Android-WP theory only works out if you are willing to ignore economics. I'll just leave it at that.
    01-29-2014 02:24 AM
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