Something I just realised about Nokia - see if you agree.

[Karthik Naik]

I'm not an admirer of Steve Jobs, but there is one thing he said that will stick with me: "People don't know what they want until you give it to them".

Having so many phones just confuses the customer. That's why Apple launches one iPhone at a time, and consumers know this is the best they have. Samsung and HTC too, with the S5 and M8.

Choice leads to confusion. If I go shopping for a Lumia, the guy says 'hey, if you want a great camera we have the 1020 but it has this bump on the back. But if you want a large screen, we have the 1520. Oh, you want a normal size phone. here's the 925, but it's nothing special compared to the other two..."

Your average consumers feels like "I'm compromising or losing out on something or the other with all these Nokia. HTC says the M8 is the best phone they have. Maybe it's easier to go with that".

You see, the average consumer is like a sheep. And you herd sheep, you don't give them choices.

thats also true,each to their own opinion
for someone like me a few lumias are great but just not meant for me - 620,625,920 and 630
the features they lack are found in other lumias, it doesnt make these phones bad but the lack of sd may be a pain for some(me ) but i know some people prefer buying a large inbuilt memory phone or a great camera phone or a great camera phone etc etc
it does complicate things but thats acceptable,ive seen my friends on ios and android who wish features/design etc from their old and new phones to be present in a single phone
with lumias theres phones with all kinds of options, no one is left feeling left out on a feature or something,we take a budget and we have 3-4 decent lumias in the price range but each phone is different
there may be confusion but maybe nokia should make a phone-finder to help make it easier for people to select the kind of phone they are looking for
something like what they did in the symbian golden age

ur points on the average consumer being a sheep etc is perfectly true, i know my two sets of my own friends-one group which is extremely pro-apple but not for any other reason only coz its a fad locally that iphone users to be rich etc
the other set of friends is extemely pro-android, they will keep cracking anti-apple jokes on the 1st set of friends but the only reason they got android was for piracy
only two of my friends and i are windows phone users and dont follow fads like the other two sets of friends(who are using ios/android for statussymbols/piracy respectively)

 

[spazzmeister]

Well, you've got the right idea about Nokia having multiple flagships, just the wrong devices. Every OEM has multiple flagships, if you go about them the way you just did. Every OEM has a phablet, a main flagship, and other niche devices. Same as Nokia. They've got the Lumia 1020, a "flagship" for photographers, the Lumia 1520, a "flagship" phablet, etc. The real flagships have always been the 92x series. The 920 for AT&T, the 925 - originally for T-Mobile, and then AT&T, and the 928 for Verizon.

So far Nokia is down to just one true flagship device: the Lumia Icon / Lumia 930 - to be fair, although they are similar, I don't really consider them the same device because of the motion processor in the 930. To be honest, I'm positive AT&T will get their hands on the Lumia 930, regardless of the exclusivity Verizon has on the Icon because of the above reason. But, we'll have to see if Nokia will continue to have a flagship device for each major (US) carrier - I don't count Sprint as a major carrier.

I've always liked this approach too. While I think getting one flagship device to each carrier would be the better option, there's nothing wrong with the current approach.

I sure hope the 930 isn't the flagship, its rather underwhelming.

 

[MrGoodSmith]

You see, the average consumer is like a sheep. And you herd sheep, you don't give them choices.

That's exactly why I hated to go with Apple or Android. It would make me feel like a sheep in a flock. Nokia and Microsoft gave me more freedom to express myself

 

[jlzimmerman]

Do you think this is good for Nokia?

No, it is not good for Nokia, at least not in the United States. The reason isn't because of how they spec each of their flagship phones. The reason is carrier exclusivity. Each of the 3 flagship phones are carrier exclusive (1020, Icon, 1520). It is by far the single largest reason why adoption of these phones is slower than other platforms. It has been explained with sound logic why MS/Nokia do this, but still, there isn't going to be a breakthrough in adoption of any particular flagship phone unless it is released by 3 of the 4 major (U.S.) carriers.

 

[anon(8657436)]

See, the thing is Nokia is playing a smart move (in my opinion) as they provide a different flagship to each of the different consumer types, which helps them to drive sales as people who want a camera would go for the 1020, those looking for a phablet would get the 1520, those wanting the best processor would hit the 930 - all at an affordable price.
Now think of 128GB SD Card support (any SD card can run on any phone though), 32GB of internal memory, 41MP PureView with dual lenses, Xenon Flash, 4000mAh battery, 5inch screen, QHD Display, a S404 processor, 3D gestures and imagine the price of this 'FLAGSHIP' and about how many people who are actually gonna buy it and use it for all the purposes it's intended to. That is what we call a niche device, not a flagship.

If you want a great camera, great battery, large screen and decent processor - 1520
Ultimate camera, decent processor - 1020
Best processor, great camera, decent battery, great display - Icon/930

I don't get what you people are clamoring for?

The priciest phones come at around Rs 50k (in India) and that is like a lot of money. Convert it to your currency and see what I mean.

 

[anon(8657436)]

Well, you've got the right idea about Nokia having multiple flagships, just the wrong devices. Every OEM has multiple flagships, if you go about them the way you just did. Every OEM has a phablet, a main flagship, and other niche devices. Same as Nokia. They've got the Lumia 1020, a "flagship" for photographers, the Lumia 1520, a "flagship" phablet, etc. The real flagships have always been the 92x series. The 920 for AT&T, the 925 - originally for T-Mobile, and then AT&T, and the 928 for Verizon.

So far Nokia is down to just one true flagship device: the Lumia Icon / Lumia 930 - to be fair, although they are similar, I don't really consider them the same device because of the motion processor in the 930. To be honest, I'm positive AT&T will get their hands on the Lumia 930, regardless of the exclusivity Verizon has on the Icon because of the above reason. But, we'll have to see if Nokia will continue to have a flagship device for each major (US) carrier - I don't count Sprint as a major carrier.

I've always liked this approach too. While I think getting one flagship device to each carrier would be the better option, there's nothing wrong with the current approach.

That's what I also think. And above all that, the people who go out looking for the best device know what they are looking for and for what purpose. If that was the case, everybody would have a Dell Alienware laptop. People know what they are looking for. Anyone looking for battery life won't touch the Alienware. Anyone who want's to photograph, wouldn't likely chose the 1520 given it's size and bulk.
Anybody looking for style won't don the 1020 due to the camera bump, they'd go with the sleek unibody of Icon or 930. See? That's how things work.

PS: Got to change my signature soon. About to get myself a 1020.

 

[MrGoodSmith]

If you want a great camera, great battery, large screen and decent processor - 1520
Ultimate camera, decent processor - 1020
Best processor, great camera, decent battery, great display - Icon/930

Actually the Lumia 1520 has the best CPU as well.

Icon/930/1520 - all have the same CPU model.

 

[ven07]

I think this was Nokia's way of making sure that we wouldn't just stick with one phone! lol brilliant if you think about it.. While everyone else just wants one iphone or droid device.. we have different phones instead of one.. this works two ways.. for nokia and MS this means more money, because a lot of people have more than one lumia, but it sucks for us as consumers, because it means we can't always have one phone with everything.. in the end it's always good to have choices i guess.. but with the 1520 they just threw everything in one phone so i'm hoping we'll see that more often

 

[Tom Snyder]

The phone user will never see the dream device cuz the next best thing is always around the corner. You pretty much jump in the moment you want something otherwise you're waiting forever.

And I like it just the way it is, what ever you buy is outdated really in the Tech World.

But it baffles me why anyone would want to limit anyone choice of what they manufacture or limit consumer choices. If you don't like the free market go to some place that limits your choices leave those that like choices alone.

 

[Elitis]

I sure hope the 930 isn't the flagship, its rather underwhelming.

Every flagship from this point on, regardless of the OS, will be underwhelming. History repeats itself, and mobile has just about caught up to where desktops are. It's reached its apex. Just like the desktop (excluding servers), mobile has quad-core processors running at just about the same speeds, we're at 3GB of RAM, and we've got 1080p displays. The last catalyst to put mobile devices on equal terms with desktops is moving past 4GB of RAM. Which, of course to do so, means we need x64 processors and x64 OS.

Once mobile devices get the last few things to put them on equal footing, we'll see two things. Mobile move at the same pace as desktops. Meaning, higher than 1080p displays (2K, 4K, and 8K), and any other general "improvements", and we'll see history repeat itself again, through smartwatches (I'm positive it will be smartwatches). Just look at the cycle. It won't be long before smartwatches reach 1080p displays, and not so much longer before they see 8K displays.

It will continue like this until history gets to the "breakthrough" point, where we see something entirely new and truly better. This will be on the level of going from horses, to cars.

 

[Karthik Naik]

I know a way of looking at it-
have u guys seen Iron Man 3? In Iron Man 3, Tony Stark has like 43 suits(Iron Man suits) all with different capabilities and features
one is strong,one is automatic , one is portable etc etc
same with nokia,they all have the same base but each phone has one or two unique featues which phone buyers can choose , so say he want a big screen , theres a lumia for that
say he wants a good battery life, theres a lumia for that and so on

the 9xx is always the undisputed flagship, the 1520 and 1020 cannot because not everyone likes the larger sceen or the camera bump,technically all 3 are flagships but in the eyes of a perfect , balanced phone buyer, the 9xx is the first place he ll look

 

[AlwaysColtron]

i know a way of looking at it-
have u guys seen iron man 3? In iron man 3, tony stark has like 43 suits(iron man suits) all with different capabilities and features
one is strong,one is automatic , one is portable etc etc
same with nokia,they all have the same base but each phone has one or two unique featues which phone buyers can choose , so say he want a big screen , theres a lumia for that
say he wants a good battery life, theres a lumia for that and so on

best. Explanation. Ever

 

[oldpueblo]

Here's my theory, work is already happening on a Microsoft flagship phone. As in they don't want it released under the Nokia brand, it will be the first phone to come out after the merger. The new true 8.1 flagship phone. There is no proof, just an interesting idea. It'd be good strategy I think. Rather than have Nokia release one last awesome device, let MS do it right out of the gates after the merger.

 

[Reebs Reebs]

I think that Nokia/WP don't have the pricing power yet so they have to launch phones with lower prices than iPhone for example. Hence, the lack of the "perfect flagship" phone. Why? Because the OS hasn't taken off yet. I really think that if Nokia was launching Android phones, that they would price closer to Samsung's flagships and in that scenario, Nokia will be able to build the "perfect flagship" phone and charge top dollars for it.

In all honesty, and please don't bully me , I don't know many people that would drop $700 for a Nokia phone right now. This is obvious to me. I might buy it, because I'm in love with the OS and with Nokia, but that's not the case for newcomers to the WP platform. This is why 520/521 were great phones for the platform.. The price gives you a reason to try the platform, and hopefully get hooked to it.

I think MS/Nokia are really running with the best strategy here.. Now can they do better advertisement and better job showing off the advantages of the platform, then YES.

 

[Reebs Reebs]

Here's my theory, work is already happening on a Microsoft flagship phone. As in they don't want it released under the Nokia brand, it will be the first phone to come out after the merger. The new true 8.1 flagship phone. There is no proof, just an interesting idea. It'd be good strategy I think. Rather than have Nokia release one last awesome device, let MS do it right out of the gates after the merger.

I really hope that MS doesn't mess with the Nokia brand. I don't understand why MS would launch Surface phones (though, I love my Surface Pro), but Nokia is an awesome brand with many supporters and loyal customers, I think.. but I might be wrong. I just can't imagine Surface taking over Nokia...

MS didn't rebrand Skype. I hope they don't rebrand Nokia.

 

[Ankit Nawlakha]

I was debating with another poster on another thread regarding which Nokia phone was the "flagship" model. Then something suddenly occurred to me. I know this is really blindingly obvious and almost laughable as I state this, it's just that I never really realised it. It occurred to me how Nokia is different to all the other phone makers in their high end phones. Everyone else, such as Apple, Samsung, HTC etc have a single top end phone that has all the best features of their respective manufacturers in one single package. In other words, a single phone with the best camera, highest storage capacity, highest RAM, most modern processor plus an array of features and benefits.

But Nokia is different. And again, I know this sounds so obvious, but it's like a light bulb in my head. With Nokia you have the 930 with the most modern processor and highest PPI, the 1020 with the best camera and the 1520 with the most storage capacity, largest battery and hence best battery life. This sets Nokia apart from all the other phone manufacturers.

Do you think this is good for Nokia? Or do you think that the way forward for Nokia is to be like everyone else and have a single, highest end model with all the best Nokia features in one complete package? A phone with the processor and PPI of the 930 with the 41MP camera and 128 GB expandable storage. I personally think this would be far better for Nokia to truly compete in the upper end with the other manufacturers.

And why not go a bit gun ho? What about jumping the gun on others and dropping a Snapdragon 805 with the 41MP camera (or 2 Snapdragons-one for the camera dedicated and one for the rest of the phone), 128 GB expandable storage plus 32GB in phone, 50GB free SkyDrive storage, 3000mAh battery or more and of course glance screen. A total flagship package. I think a lot of us would be happy to pay a hefty price for something like that. I wouldn't blink an eye, I would pay iphone money in a heartbeat.

What do you think?

POINT.
But what i think is, Nokia should continue with their present approach along with what you said..!
First lets think from consumers point of view.. A Smartphone with the best processor, best camera, best screen, best battery etc etc etc will be, undoubtedly, a great phone..! and i m sure most of us will definitely give that phone a shot..!! And this phone will also allow the Non-WP users to switch from their platform to ours..!! Which is great for Nokia and Microsoft as well..!!

Now lets think from the Nokia's Point of view.. If they follow their present approach, it will allow them to keep all of their devices in demand..! A photographer will definitely opt for the best camera smartphone.. A music and movie freak will go with the best storage smartphone.. A person who uses his phone as a replacement for his PC will opt for the smartphone with the best processor..!! Perhaps that's the reason why Nokia is following this approach unlike HTC or Samsung. This approach keeps all of their devices in demand..!!

What i want from Nokia to follow both of them.!! First one will allow Nokia's device to rip off all the present flagship phones and the second approach will allow Nokia to keep all of their devices (from low-end to high-end) in demand..!!

Thnx.!

 

[BlackZeppelin]

See, the thing is Nokia is playing a smart move (in my opinion) as they provide a different flagship to each of the different consumer types, which helps them to drive sales as people who want a camera would go for the 1020, those looking for a phablet would get the 1520, those wanting the best processor would hit the 930 - all at an affordable price.
Now think of 128GB SD Card support (any SD card can run on any phone though), 32GB of internal memory, 41MP PureView with dual lenses, Xenon Flash, 4000mAh battery, 5inch screen, QHD Display, a S404 processor, 3D gestures and imagine the price of this 'FLAGSHIP' and about how many people who are actually gonna buy it and use it for all the purposes it's intended to. That is what we call a niche device, not a flagship.

If you want a great camera, great battery, large screen and decent processor - 1520
Ultimate camera, decent processor - 1020
Best processor, great camera, decent battery, great display - Icon/930

I don't get what you people are clamoring for?

The priciest phones come at around Rs 50k (in India) and that is like a lot of money. Convert it to your currency and see what I mean.

What am I "clamouring" for? I'll tell you. I am clamouring for the same consistency in Nokia as per the other manufacturers. What do I mean? I mean that from cheapest to most expensive, there is an incremental and progressive increase in features. So from cheapest to most expensive, the camera goes from 5mp to 41mp, the processing goes from 500mb RAM to 2GB RAM, the storage (phone + SD ) goes from 8GB to 144GB, PPI goes from about 250 to about 450 etc, etc, etc.

Not features jumping all over the place so that I have to choose what features I want in a phone and compromise on something else. Every model Nokia is a compromise on something. And it's absolutely laughable too that for eg, some higher end phones don't have SD whilst lowly cheap models like the Lumia 520 have 64GB SD card storage plus 8GB in phone storage. Can you not see the ridicuolusness of this? The upcoming latest model 930 will have less than half the storage of a phone that's been out for a while now, a phone with a lowly dual core processor that costs about a quarter of this new model.

What you guys are suggesting that Nokia has something for everyone is not true. Not even close. If Nokia did as the other manufacturers did, there would still be something for everyone. If you couldn't afford the flagship, you can still get a midrange phone or a lower end phone that still takes good pictures, has a good amount of storage, has a fast processor etc. What some of you are sticking up for is a compromise. Buy the 1020 for a camera, buy the 1520 for the battery life, buy the 930 for the latest procesor.

I already returned a 1020 and fortunately got my money back. If I want a phone for that 41mp camera, I still want removable storage, I still want quad core processing, I still want a large battery. The mobile phone market is incredibly competitive. I don't honestly believe that Nokia can go it their own way, as some of you say, and succeed. The Lumia 520 has been one of the world's greatest successes in that price range because of 2 things:

Affordability
The amount of overall features for that price.

The 520 is a complete package. It takes good pictures, has plenty of storage with SD card, has built in navigation, Nokia mix radio etc. No compromise for a budget phone. When I spend 4 and 5 times the amount, I expect the same. I don't expect that I have to pick and choose what I can have and what I have to do without.

I consider myself to be Nokia/MS fan and even I am looking sideways at some other upcoming phones to consider replacing my current Nokia. If all this compromising and picking and choosing what I can have and not have in their pricier offerings is making me consider other phones and platforms, what is it going to do to the casual phone buyer who is not a fan of Nokia and MS, and is just looking to buy the best phone with all the best features for the price?

I love the combination of Nokia and MS and even I am frustrated. That says a lot. I bought a 1020 and the combination of a woefully small capacity battery and ageing dual core processor on a largish screen gave it a terrible battery life. So if I want great battery life I can buy something that is just too big (1520) for me and go without the 41mp camera. Or I could buy the 930 for the best processor and get a moderately sized battery and again, miss out on the 41mp camera. On the 1020 and 930 I don't get SD storage. So the only option I have of having removable SD card storage on a new model Nokia phone if I find the 1520 too large to lug around is the new 630/635 and have plenty of storage but go back to a 5mp camera.

And to top it all off, the glance feature only recently released is not avaliable on a brand new "flagship" phone.


Yeah, this is great business. This is most definately not Nokia having something for everyone. This is compromising.

 

[erMonas]

I just want to point out that Samsung has two flagship phones nowadays: The Samsung Galaxy S5 and the Samsung Galaxy Note 3...

 

[anony_mouse]

Every flagship from this point on, regardless of the OS, will be underwhelming. History repeats itself, and mobile has just about caught up to where desktops are. It's reached its apex. Just like the desktop (excluding servers), mobile has quad-core processors running at just about the same speeds, we're at 3GB of RAM, and we've got 1080p displays. The last catalyst to put mobile devices on equal terms with desktops is moving past 4GB of RAM. Which, of course to do so, means we need x64 processors and x64 OS.

I generally agree with you - new smart phones in last couple of years have not brought big improvements to users. Modern phones are already fast enough that extra processing power is only a minor improvement, and it's debatable whether the transition from 720p to 1080p displays is noticable in normal use. I really doubt whether we need a 4k display on a mobile phone. What should happen is that average selling prices for smart phones should fall, as mid and low end phones become sufficient for most users... although manufacturers will certainly continue to push high end phones as status/fashion items and many people will be stupid enough to continue buying them... And perhaps some new use or application comes along that can really make use of new, expensive hardware.

The point that I don't agree with is that addressing more the 4GB of RAM requires a 64 bit processor and OS (x64 implies Intel, which is probably not what you meant). This is a common misconception. ARM Cortex-A15 CPUs (used in high end phones since 2012) are 32 bit processors but can address 40 bits of memory, so up to 1TB. Intel have supported a similar feature called PAE since the Pentium Pro launched in 1995. It's been supported by 32 bit Windows since before 2000 and by Linux for even longer, although Windows OS's often limit the feature for licensing reasons.
There is a limitation that a single process (an application may use one or more processes) is limited to 4GB of memory. I don't know enough about how WP or Android map applications to processes to assess the implications of this restriction.

 

[anony_mouse]

I know a way of looking at it-
have u guys seen Iron Man 3? In Iron Man 3, Tony Stark has like 43 suits(Iron Man suits) all with different capabilities and features
one is strong,one is automatic , one is portable etc etc
same with nokia,they all have the same base but each phone has one or two unique featues which phone buyers can choose , so say he want a big screen , theres a lumia for that
say he wants a good battery life, theres a lumia for that and so on

the 9xx is always the undisputed flagship, the 1520 and 1020 cannot because not everyone likes the larger sceen or the camera bump,technically all 3 are flagships but in the eyes of a perfect , balanced phone buyer, the 9xx is the first place he ll look

I've never seen Iron Man but I think there's a problem with this analogy. This 'Iron Man' (who sounds like something you find at a Pride rally, but there's nothing wrong with that) owns all 43 suits. I only want to buy one smart phone.

However, I don't think there's a big problem with Nokia's range.