05-19-2014 01:49 AM
62 123
tools
  1. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    I was debating with another poster on another thread regarding which Nokia phone was the "flagship" model. Then something suddenly occurred to me. I know this is really blindingly obvious and almost laughable as I state this, it's just that I never really realised it. It occurred to me how Nokia is different to all the other phone makers in their high end phones. Everyone else, such as Apple, Samsung, HTC etc have a single top end phone that has all the best features of their respective manufacturers in one single package. In other words, a single phone with the best camera, highest storage capacity, highest RAM, most modern processor plus an array of features and benefits.

    But Nokia is different. And again, I know this sounds so obvious, but it's like a light bulb in my head. With Nokia you have the 930 with the most modern processor and highest PPI, the 1020 with the best camera and the 1520 with the most storage capacity, largest battery and hence best battery life. This sets Nokia apart from all the other phone manufacturers.

    Do you think this is good for Nokia? Or do you think that the way forward for Nokia is to be like everyone else and have a single, highest end model with all the best Nokia features in one complete package? A phone with the processor and PPI of the 930 with the 41MP camera and 128 GB expandable storage. I personally think this would be far better for Nokia to truly compete in the upper end with the other manufacturers.

    And why not go a bit gun ho? What about jumping the gun on others and dropping a Snapdragon 805 with the 41MP camera (or 2 Snapdragons-one for the camera dedicated and one for the rest of the phone), 128 GB expandable storage plus 32GB in phone, 50GB free SkyDrive storage, 3000mAh battery or more and of course glance screen. A total flagship package. I think a lot of us would be happy to pay a hefty price for something like that. I wouldn't blink an eye, I would pay iphone money in a heartbeat.

    What do you think?
    04-07-2014 04:40 AM
  2. Poirots Progeny's Avatar
    I think it would be good for Nokia to just have the one device. I hate the fact that i pay full price, top tier money, and have to compromise on something.

    In that respect Nokia resemble casio.... Still waiting on a protrek that has the moon phase AND sunrise/set data... Hunting watch my rear!

    Either way, Nokia innovates on a grand (and non profitable) scale - their high end phones may be lauded in the media and here on wpc but they do not shift in great numbers - even the 1520. So it might actually be practical for Nokia to have one device high end.... It may even be that the choice is what confuses people. They know if they go to apple or Sammy or whatever there is less compromise so more bang for buck.

    It is an issue they will have to address - under MS's stewardship i can imagine less out there projects, like the 1020. Unless, of course, they use their noggin and create the one mega device and market the pants off it!!!
    DavidinCT and Beijendorf like this.
    04-07-2014 04:58 AM
  3. anony_mouse's Avatar
    You make a good point. It's not a new thing for Nokia - in the past, they tended to have different ranges of phones, with some emphasising music, others the camera, another for smart phones, etc. To be honest, it always put me off buying Nokia phones. I don't use a phone for just one purpose, but want it to be at least reasonably good at everything. Having to choose between, say, a good camera and a fast processor on an expensive phone feels like making a compromise which other manufacturers don't force you to make.
    Must admit I hadn't thought of Nokia's current range in this way before, but perhaps I should...
    04-07-2014 05:04 AM
  4. vukmania's Avatar
    I share your point and I also think the mentioned flagship device would be optimal. But the thing is you can't fit the 41mp sensor in a phone that would apply as a flagship. Why? Because the the norms of a flagship has been set and a camerna bump is not is these norms, even though the bump doesn't disturb you as much as the pessimist would think. Nokia doesn't have the power of setting norm like Apple and Samsung just yet. I think one of Nokias strategy angles is to make feature specified phones with different "high-end" features and let the costumer decide what is important to them.


    But when will we get the competitive high-end phone we all want from Nokia? Well probably never, I think the next revolutionary phone will be the WP Surface. I honestly don't think Microsoft will go soft with their opening flagship device.

    But then this is my opinion.

    *Hope you got my point, as a Swede, English isn't the easiest for me.
    04-07-2014 05:17 AM
  5. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    I share your point and I also think the mentioned flagship device would be optimal. But the thing is you can't fit the 41mp sensor in a phone that would apply as a flagship. Why? Because the the norms of a flagship has been set and a camera bump is not is these norms, even though the bump doesn't disturb you as much as the pessimist would think. Nokia doesn't have the power of setting norm like Apple and Samsung just yet. I think one of Nokias strategy angles is to make feature specified phones with different "high-end" features and let the costumer decide what is important to them.


    But when will we get the competitive high-end phone we all want from Nokia? Well probably never, I think the next revolutionary phone will be the WP Surface. I honestly don't think Microsoft will go soft with their opening flagship device.

    I do agree with your point on the 41mp camera. Because it is such a unique feature, perhaps Nokia could make 2 top end devices-one with the 41mp camera and the other exactly the same but with a 20mp PureView camera. So people could choose whether they really want that feature. You wouldn't have to do that with any other feature. Everyone would want if they could have it large micro SD removable storage, large battery capacity, glance screen, high PPI, latest processor etc.

    And another thing. Why do Nokia have such a large selection of phone models? Does this make economic sense? For eg, 520, 620, 720, 820, 920, 925 etc. You have 3 lower rung phones all running 5mp cameras. Why? Even now Nokia release a 625 and 630. Why not have a lower end model, a middle model and a couple of high end models? And of course super cheap models like Asha models plus the new X series series for emerging markets. I don't understand why Nokia has to have so many varied models of Lumia, many of them with only incremental increase in specifications.
    04-07-2014 05:31 AM
  6. Evan_ISS's Avatar
    ... What do you think?
    I think what you are describing just shows that Nokia can't release a decent flagship device.

    It looks to me to be distracted by side projects which end up becoming "flagship" models and not keeping to the Apple/Samsung rule of one high end all singing all dancing flagship that includes the best and latest tech even if it not strictly needed.

    Because even if the majority of its sales are on the low end, the high end is that makes the headlines.
    04-07-2014 02:54 PM
  7. Cryio's Avatar
    Lumia 520 = the WP device for all.

    Lumia 620 = the smallest WP device for those who needed a small modern smartphone (I know quite a few. Plus basically all iPhone 1G-4 users)

    Lumia 625 = the affordable big screen WP experience

    Lumia 720 = the stylish one, great photography and battery life road warrior

    Lumia 820 = the affordable high-end. (specs, camera and display)

    Lumia 920 = the flagship. Battery. Specs. Camera. Display. Best camera on a smartphone that is not a camera phone on release. Also, being the flagship, best design.

    Lumia 1020 = do I even have to mention?



    Yep, it's nothing new for Nokia. I fully expect them to do the same this time. Except for the whole 830 = L930 specs but with some other minuses. I don't think the L830 will keep the Q800 or the 2 GB of ram.
    piff2222 and bijak_riyandi like this.
    04-07-2014 06:06 PM
  8. Squachy's Avatar
    Nokia's problem is actually two-fold.
    1.) The weird release schedule. ITs kind of in between the Android flagships (Samsung and HTC, in Feb/March) and the IPhone (late year, Septemberish). Only LG has kind of the same timeframe as Nokia. They were the first ones out of the gate with a snapdragon 800 device (LG G2) late last year.
    2.) the OS. The major holdback of hardware had been the OS. The best SoC that the OS could actually support at the times of the 9xx and 1020 series is the dual core Snapdragon S4. And that was the case until late 2013 when the GDR3 finally came out. Already it was late since for about a year and a half the competition (except for iPhone) had long jumped onto the quad core bandwagon.
    04-07-2014 09:22 PM
  9. AV2RY's Avatar
    The real question is will there be another Lumia FROM Nokia? If Nokia doesn't break the deal with MS (I hope they do**) which is closing this month I dint think there will be another Nokia phone soon

    ** I think Nokia can make that 7B in no time. For two reasons at least.
    1) MS is going to be free for all <9" devices (or was it 10"). I don't know what Nokia pays them currently, but now that amount will be remaining in their pocket
    2) they can make more Android (forked or full) devices. I know many of you didn't like X -family. But really, nobody is forcing you buy it, so be quiet and let them do their business.
    Plus Nokia can always surprise us, they could come up with something unexpected, something big))
    04-07-2014 09:53 PM
  10. Guytronic's Avatar
    Device specs are OS and carrier driven.
    Carriers in the US are picking prototyped hardware that they believe will be marketable to the subscriber.

    Most phone users could care less about what's inside as long as it works for them.
    The carriers are fully aware and hoping the users will dropkick their current devices for the next level of features when available.
    Why push an all inclusive device when it's much more profitable to dangle the next best thing in front of the dog.

    All of this comes together with the network providers spoon feeding subscribers with competitive upgrade options.
    The phone user will never see a "dream" device because we really don't want it and it will always be around the corner.

    Waiting for rumored phones is a way of life in this game ... remove the curiosity and we will have no reason to continue.
    04-08-2014 12:05 AM
  11. BlackZeppelin's Avatar
    The phone user will never see a "dream" device because we really don't want it ......

    I seriously doubt that. One of the oddest things I've read on this forum site to be honest. So you wouldn't be interested say in a Lumia with the 1020 camera, highest storage capacity, fastest and latest chip etc, highest PPI, highest video resolution recording, largest capacity battery etc etc ? Because I'm sure just about everyone else on this site would.
    Guytronic likes this.
    04-08-2014 12:20 AM
  12. Squachy's Avatar
    The phone user will never see the dream device cuz the next best thing is always around the corner. You pretty much jump in the moment you want something otherwise you're waiting forever.
    Tom Snyder likes this.
    04-08-2014 12:58 AM
  13. Guytronic's Avatar
    I seriously doubt that. One of the oddest things I've read on this forum site to be honest. So you wouldn't be interested say in a Lumia with the 1020 camera, highest storage capacity, fastest and latest chip etc, highest PPI, highest video resolution recording, largest capacity battery etc etc ? Because I'm sure just about everyone else on this site would.
    I was trying to say that in the continuum people don't want to have a top drawer device right off the bat.
    In my own experience having the best right away goes nowhere because in the technology game we can never know fully what is over the horizon.
    Features are trickled into devices so that we can stay enamored with what is coming down the pipe.

    Things like graphene displays, compressing micron signal paths for processors and organic memory are out there.
    Even in the next year devices will become the precursor to robotic guidance furthering dependance on the handheld friend.

    Don't get me wrong I'm fully entrenched and have always embraced technology.
    It's just not up to the consumer frankly.
    All this is bound by markets, surveys, perceived allegiance by popularity...etc.

    For this user it boils down to best\lowest cost for what I get.
    Features mean little if the price tag is not doable.
    I will never pay top dollar for something that will be yesterday tomorrow.
    I can take second string no problem.
    Just the way it is.
    04-08-2014 01:12 AM
  14. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I've moved this thread to the Upcoming & Rumored Devices forum, since the topic is more about what we'd like to see in a Nokia device, rather than what the Nokia 930 will include.
    Guytronic, Karthik Naik and ven07 like this.
    04-08-2014 01:27 AM
  15. MrGoodSmith's Avatar
    Nice topic.

    I have commented on one of the Lumia 930 articles here in WPC that Nokia's strategy is to never build the perfect phone. I have been noticing this since 2007 when I purchased back then my N95-8GB.

    They seem to deliberately sacrifice something in each new model so that their other phones maintain momentum in the market. That's my main theory. Each one of us is interested in particular aspect of the phone and considers it more important (camera, battery, storage, ..etc) and would buy the model that best suits his/her needs, this way they can sell more of all their models.

    Personally I have found the Lumia 1520 to be my personal favorite to call a flagship. Compared to the Lumia 930 or 1020, I see the long battery life and the microSD card add much more value to me.
    Guytronic likes this.
    04-08-2014 04:03 AM
  16. vukmania's Avatar
    Personally I have found the Lumia 1520 to be my personal favorite to call a flagship. Compared to the Lumia 930 or 1020, I see the long battery life and the microSD card add much more value to me.
    In my case the 930 is ideal since I have a 3 qi chargers, one at my job, one in my bedroom(dt-910+glance=perfect nightclock) and one in my living room. Battery is no issue, and then I use Skydrive frequently so storage is never a problem. The 930 is perfect in my opinion, even though is a little bit mediocre in my opinion compared to the other feature specific phones.
    04-08-2014 07:06 AM
  17. akthelonelyman's Avatar
    True in every sense. 1520 is the closest nokia came in making a complete device.they had to cut down on the camera but I dont know how a 42mp will fit on it.(they could have increased the aperture).
    The trend u said were present way back from Symbian era.
    Might be pure coincidence but the most complete Symbian phone was their last 808 pureview like 1520 is the last(dont know if 930will come here)
    04-08-2014 09:59 AM
  18. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    variety is the spice of life
    every lumia is different
    if ur new to windows phone, theres a phone for everyone :)
    04-08-2014 10:04 AM
  19. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    variety is the spice of life
    every lumia is different
    if ur new to windows phone, theres a phone for everyone :)
    I'm not an admirer of Steve Jobs, but there is one thing he said that will stick with me: "People don't know what they want until you give it to them".

    Having so many phones just confuses the customer. That's why Apple launches one iPhone at a time, and consumers know this is the best they have. Samsung and HTC too, with the S5 and M8.

    Choice leads to confusion. If I go shopping for a Lumia, the guy says 'hey, if you want a great camera we have the 1020 but it has this bump on the back. But if you want a large screen, we have the 1520. Oh, you want a normal size phone. here's the 925, but it's nothing special compared to the other two..."

    Your average consumers feels like "I'm compromising or losing out on something or the other with all these Nokia. HTC says the M8 is the best phone they have. Maybe it's easier to go with that".

    You see, the average consumer is like a sheep. And you herd sheep, you don't give them choices.
    04-08-2014 11:03 AM
  20. Elitis's Avatar
    Well, you've got the right idea about Nokia having multiple flagships, just the wrong devices. Every OEM has multiple flagships, if you go about them the way you just did. Every OEM has a phablet, a main flagship, and other niche devices. Same as Nokia. They've got the Lumia 1020, a "flagship" for photographers, the Lumia 1520, a "flagship" phablet, etc. The real flagships have always been the 92x series. The 920 for AT&T, the 925 - originally for T-Mobile, and then AT&T, and the 928 for Verizon.

    So far Nokia is down to just one true flagship device: the Lumia Icon / Lumia 930 - to be fair, although they are similar, I don't really consider them the same device because of the motion processor in the 930. To be honest, I'm positive AT&T will get their hands on the Lumia 930, regardless of the exclusivity Verizon has on the Icon because of the above reason. But, we'll have to see if Nokia will continue to have a flagship device for each major (US) carrier - I don't count Sprint as a major carrier.

    I've always liked this approach too. While I think getting one flagship device to each carrier would be the better option, there's nothing wrong with the current approach.
    04-08-2014 01:52 PM
  21. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    I'm not an admirer of Steve Jobs, but there is one thing he said that will stick with me: "People don't know what they want until you give it to them".

    Having so many phones just confuses the customer. That's why Apple launches one iPhone at a time, and consumers know this is the best they have. Samsung and HTC too, with the S5 and M8.

    Choice leads to confusion. If I go shopping for a Lumia, the guy says 'hey, if you want a great camera we have the 1020 but it has this bump on the back. But if you want a large screen, we have the 1520. Oh, you want a normal size phone. here's the 925, but it's nothing special compared to the other two..."

    Your average consumers feels like "I'm compromising or losing out on something or the other with all these Nokia. HTC says the M8 is the best phone they have. Maybe it's easier to go with that".

    You see, the average consumer is like a sheep. And you herd sheep, you don't give them choices.
    thats also true,each to their own opinion
    for someone like me a few lumias are great but just not meant for me - 620,625,920 and 630
    the features they lack are found in other lumias, it doesnt make these phones bad but the lack of sd may be a pain for some(me :D ) but i know some people prefer buying a large inbuilt memory phone or a great camera phone or a great camera phone etc etc
    it does complicate things but thats acceptable,ive seen my friends on ios and android who wish features/design etc from their old and new phones to be present in a single phone
    with lumias theres phones with all kinds of options, no one is left feeling left out on a feature or something,we take a budget and we have 3-4 decent lumias in the price range but each phone is different
    there may be confusion but maybe nokia should make a phone-finder to help make it easier for people to select the kind of phone they are looking for
    something like what they did in the symbian golden age

    ur points on the average consumer being a sheep etc is perfectly true, i know my two sets of my own friends-one group which is extremely pro-apple but not for any other reason only coz its a fad locally that iphone users to be rich etc
    the other set of friends is extemely pro-android, they will keep cracking anti-apple jokes on the 1st set of friends but the only reason they got android was for piracy
    only two of my friends and i are windows phone users and dont follow fads like the other two sets of friends(who are using ios/android for statussymbols/piracy respectively)
    Guytronic likes this.
    04-08-2014 01:58 PM
  22. spazzmeister's Avatar
    Well, you've got the right idea about Nokia having multiple flagships, just the wrong devices. Every OEM has multiple flagships, if you go about them the way you just did. Every OEM has a phablet, a main flagship, and other niche devices. Same as Nokia. They've got the Lumia 1020, a "flagship" for photographers, the Lumia 1520, a "flagship" phablet, etc. The real flagships have always been the 92x series. The 920 for AT&T, the 925 - originally for T-Mobile, and then AT&T, and the 928 for Verizon.

    So far Nokia is down to just one true flagship device: the Lumia Icon / Lumia 930 - to be fair, although they are similar, I don't really consider them the same device because of the motion processor in the 930. To be honest, I'm positive AT&T will get their hands on the Lumia 930, regardless of the exclusivity Verizon has on the Icon because of the above reason. But, we'll have to see if Nokia will continue to have a flagship device for each major (US) carrier - I don't count Sprint as a major carrier.

    I've always liked this approach too. While I think getting one flagship device to each carrier would be the better option, there's nothing wrong with the current approach.
    I sure hope the 930 isn't the flagship, its rather underwhelming.
    04-08-2014 02:09 PM
  23. MrGoodSmith's Avatar
    You see, the average consumer is like a sheep. And you herd sheep, you don't give them choices.
    That's exactly why I hated to go with Apple or Android. It would make me feel like a sheep in a flock. Nokia and Microsoft gave me more freedom to express myself :)
    Last edited by MrGoodSmith; 04-13-2014 at 11:26 PM.
    04-08-2014 02:19 PM
  24. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    Do you think this is good for Nokia?
    No, it is not good for Nokia, at least not in the United States. The reason isn't because of how they spec each of their flagship phones. The reason is carrier exclusivity. Each of the 3 flagship phones are carrier exclusive (1020, Icon, 1520). It is by far the single largest reason why adoption of these phones is slower than other platforms. It has been explained with sound logic why MS/Nokia do this, but still, there isn't going to be a breakthrough in adoption of any particular flagship phone unless it is released by 3 of the 4 major (U.S.) carriers.
    ven07 likes this.
    04-08-2014 02:54 PM
  25. anon(8657436)'s Avatar
    See, the thing is Nokia is playing a smart move (in my opinion) as they provide a different flagship to each of the different consumer types, which helps them to drive sales as people who want a camera would go for the 1020, those looking for a phablet would get the 1520, those wanting the best processor would hit the 930 - all at an affordable price.
    Now think of 128GB SD Card support (any SD card can run on any phone though), 32GB of internal memory, 41MP PureView with dual lenses, Xenon Flash, 4000mAh battery, 5inch screen, QHD Display, a S404 processor, 3D gestures and imagine the price of this 'FLAGSHIP' and about how many people who are actually gonna buy it and use it for all the purposes it's intended to. That is what we call a niche device, not a flagship.

    If you want a great camera, great battery, large screen and decent processor - 1520
    Ultimate camera, decent processor - 1020
    Best processor, great camera, decent battery, great display - Icon/930

    I don't get what you people are clamoring for?

    The priciest phones come at around Rs 50k (in India) and that is like a lot of money. Convert it to your currency and see what I mean.
    04-08-2014 05:00 PM
62 123

Similar Threads

  1. Confusion about Cortana release (Australia)
    By BlackZeppelin in forum Nokia Lumia 930
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-20-2014, 05:28 AM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-13-2014, 07:51 AM
  3. Hi, I just installed Dev
    By sneekymonkey in forum Windows Phone 8.1
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-07-2014, 03:19 PM
  4. A Nokia Answer To Motorola Droid Maxx Makes Business Sense
    By Sir William Wiener in forum Windows Phone 8.1
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-06-2014, 08:50 PM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-06-2014, 08:40 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD