11-20-2014 01:50 PM
121 1234 ...
tools
  1. salmanahmad's Avatar
    I believe that if a 1030 were to be released they would probably need to compromise somewhere, such as maybe the display or processor or else the device would be too expensive.
    Sent from my RM-914_im_mea3_380 using Tapatalk
    07-14-2014 02:12 PM
  2. Beijendorf's Avatar
    I believe that if a 1030 were to be released they would probably need to compromise somewhere, such as maybe the display or processor or else the device would be too expensive.
    Newer technology isn't necessarily more expensive. For example, the Pelican Imaging camera module costs about 30 % of a legacy camera module. The camera module is usually one of the more expensive components in a smartphone, so that's a large saving right there. I'm certain similar cost-effective technology could be adopted that doesn't compromise on quality to the end-user.
    07-14-2014 05:05 PM
  3. salmanahmad's Avatar
    Newer technology isn't necessarily more expensive. For example, the Pelican Imaging camera module costs about 30 % of a legacy camera module. The camera module is usually one of the more expensive components in a smartphone, so that's a large saving right there. I'm certain similar cost-effective technology could be adopted that doesn't compromise on quality to the end-user.

    Do you know why the 808 Pureview came out with an outdated processor and software? Because it took Nokia experts nearly 5 years to put such a high res camera sensor on a phone and they had to make compromises somewhere.

    Similarly when the 1020 launched its specifications were already outdated, the screen was also less sharp and lower resolution compared to competitors however the camera was amazing.

    Pretty sure in the 1030 they are aiming for flagships specs however they might have to sacrifice something, most likely the display.

    However a 720p display is good for me and I don't see a huge difference between 1080p and 720p, plus if 1030 comes out with Snapdragon 800 + 720p display it is absolutely gonna be blazing fast im everything.
    07-14-2014 05:41 PM
  4. Beijendorf's Avatar
    Do you know why the 808 Pureview came out with an outdated processor and software? Because it took Nokia experts nearly 5 years to put such a high res camera sensor on a phone and they had to make compromises somewhere.
    I don't feel like they skimped on the Nokia 808 PureView considering it came with a great screen, dual processors and the latest iteration of Symbian OS. Regardless, the Nokia 808 PureView wasn't a full-on release and wasn't intended as a flagship device.
    Nokia spends a lot of resources on research and development, so the "5 years of research" wasn't just for the Nokia 808. It seemed more like a market-testing device meant to give Nokia publicity.

    Similarly when the 1020 launched its specifications were already outdated, the screen was also less sharp and lower resolution compared to competitors however the camera was amazing.
    1) Nokia got its mobile phone revenue primarily from selling devices. Microsoft gets its revenue primarily from its software and services. Microsoft wants those services to reach a broader audience, and can therefore do like Google and sell the devices (i.e. Nexus) at a smaller profit margin just to have people invest in their ecosystem.

    2) The Lumia 1020 camera module costs more than twice that of a "normal" camera module, and is difficult to produce in large quantities. If the McLaren uses a Pelican Imaging camera module, it would cost 30 % that of a normal camera module (i.e. 16 % that of the 1020 module). If they use specialised sensors and lenses, they may come up to the price of a normal legacy module. The main point is; the costly hardware on the Lumia 1020 could become a non-issue on a new camera flagship if they implement cost-effective technology.

    3) Additionally, you'd have to explain why the Nokia Lumia 930 came with an outdated processor and less advanced screen compared to its predecessors. I think a lot of the problems with Nokia is the bloated organisation leading to slow releases. Microsoft could very well solve this with the recent lay-offs and focus on an increased release pace.

    So I say it again, there doesn't have to be compromises.
    salmanahmad likes this.
    07-15-2014 08:29 AM
  5. wuiyang's Avatar
    maybe a 50MP phone (if possible), since 1020 can capture 8K picture, i think it should be able to record 8K @ 15 ~25 fps (very low due to large amount of pixels), and SD card please, 4K is about 8.3MP, and 8K is ~36MP = 5MB each picture, should have SD card slot for it like 1520

    video 8K for a second took about 75MB (15FPS) to 125MB (25FPS), it will become 1GB when you recorded for about 8sec(25FPS) to 13.5sec(15FPS), a minute video will become 4.5GB(15FPS) to 7.5GB(25FPS), so if 8K video recording is allowed, it should be able to have SD card slot

    P.S.: nokia might be the first 8K recording phone camera
    P.P.S.:it need faster CPU to record 8K
    P.P.P.S.: maybe they will just use GPU to process it
    P.P.P.P.S.: so much P.S-es, and maybe it will able to use both of it, of course it will take up loads of battery...
    Last edited by wuiyang; 07-16-2014 at 07:04 AM.
    07-16-2014 06:51 AM
  6. bijak_riyandi's Avatar
    I'm not sure that this megapixel war would extend further than 41 MP anytime soon...
    so for me, 50 MP sensor (not 50 MP image from several stitched 13 MP pictures which is what the Oppo Find 7 does) is unlikely

    8K video?
    damn, even 4K is way overkill for a mobile phone
    AFAIK, there is no 8K screen used in the world at this moment

    the camera tech possibilities have been discussed thoroughly in this thread...
    as for me now, I would prefer a 41 MP with a 1" sensor, an even more advanced OIS, ZEISS lens or Canon Liquid Lens, and adjustable aperture
    for the processing part, I'd prefer Qualcomm Snapdragon 805, 2 GB RAM, and a fast 64 GB internal memory (expandable or not, I don't really care)
    Beijendorf and JamesPTao like this.
    07-16-2014 08:36 AM
  7. AndyM72's Avatar
    One thing that needs sorting from the 1020 is the shot to shot time. I'm sure that was caused by the bandwidth of the flash memory controller.

    So if they could sort that, probably with a multichannel controller with the Flash memory in banks, that would be good.

    Otherwise, a Lumia 930, with the 1020 camera model surgically implanted, and 64GB of Flash would do me. If the 1525 is getting a Snapdragon 801, I'd expect the 1030 hardware to be based on that.
    hcrick likes this.
    07-27-2014 08:28 AM
  8. salmanahmad's Avatar
    Otherwise, a Lumia 930, with the 1020 camera model surgically implanted, and 64GB of Flash would do me. If the 1525 is getting a Snapdragon 801, I'd expect the 1030 hardware to be based on that.
    Snapdragon 801 would still not really insure a smooth 41 Megapixel camera experience because the total amount of megapixels an 801 can handle is around 21 Megapixels.

    A Snapdragon 805 or above support 55 Megapixel sensors so if Nokia/Microsoft comes out when a 1020 successor it would fly with a Snapdragon 805.
    07-27-2014 12:19 PM
  9. AndyM72's Avatar
    if Nokia/Microsoft comes out when a 1020 successor it would fly with a Snapdragon 805.
    The 1020 made do with a S4 Plus.

    The 801 has dual signal processors, each can handle 21 megapixel images. I think they are meant to be used in series normally, both processing the same image, but there doesn't seem to be anything stopping coders using them in parallel.

    So it is possible to share the work between the two signal processors and handle the same 41 MP images as the 1020 capture.
    07-27-2014 02:18 PM
  10. JamesPTao's Avatar
    A better solution might be I the works. Microsoft just signed a partnership with canon for work on their smartphones. My guess is it is too be able to use canons digic 4 processor as an offload processor to process the images I the 1020 rather than using the main processor. It would be dramatically faster and better on battery. Guess well have to wait and see.
    07-27-2014 02:46 PM
  11. Blacklac's Avatar
    The 1020 made do with a S4 Plus.
    And its biggest Con is how slow it is. Frankly, I don't think we'll see a true 1020 successor until it can process photos smoothly and quickly. We may not even get a successor this year.
    07-27-2014 03:06 PM
  12. JamesPTao's Avatar
    And its biggest Con is how slow it is. Frankly, I don't think we'll see a true 1020 successor until it can process photos smoothly and quickly. We may not even get a successor this year.
    No small task. Unfortunately I doubt any mobile phone processor could handle 41 mp raw photos and creating a 5 mp oversampled image well. Too much for a mobile processor. That is the compromise.
    07-27-2014 03:51 PM
  13. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Do you know why the 808 Pureview came out with an outdated processor and software? Because it took Nokia experts nearly 5 years to put such a high res camera sensor on a phone and they had to make compromises somewhere.

    Similarly when the 1020 launched its specifications were already outdated, the screen was also less sharp and lower resolution compared to competitors however the camera was amazing.

    Pretty sure in the 1030 they are aiming for flagships specs however they might have to sacrifice something, most likely the display.

    However a 720p display is good for me and I don't see a huge difference between 1080p and 720p, plus if 1030 comes out with Snapdragon 800 + 720p display it is absolutely gonna be blazing fast im everything.
    The 808 pureview took so long because it was a pet project not to be released until they were 100% satisfied with it. The designer literally tool a piece of wood with the general shape of the phone and carried it daily with him. He would shave little bits off until the form factor was perfect I his eyes. To discount that phone is ridiculous. The camera alone was 8 years ahead of its time.
    07-27-2014 04:04 PM
  14. smoledman's Avatar
    Why have a flagship camera-oriented device that doesn't have a super-slo mode(120fps capture) that the iPhone has?
    Mach_E likes this.
    07-27-2014 04:05 PM
  15. salmanahmad's Avatar
    The 1020 made do with a S4 Plus.

    The 801 has dual signal processors, each can handle 21 megapixel images. I think they are meant to be used in series normally, both processing the same image, but there doesn't seem to be anything stopping coders using them in parallel.

    So it is possible to share the work between the two signal processors and handle the same 41 MP images as the 1020 capture.

    Nokia had to work with Snapdragon to change the imaging stack(something like that) to make the S4 Plus work with the 41 MP sensor but even with all that S4 Plus couldn't ensure a fast shutter speed on the 1020.

    It will definitely be possible to run the 41 MP sensor on Snapdragon 801 however it still won't be extremely smooth.

    805 will suit it perfectly.
    07-27-2014 04:32 PM
  16. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Why have a flagship camera-oriented device that doesn't have a super-slo mode(120fps capture) that the iPhone has?
    IPhone is a bad comparison if the 1020 used an 8 mp, non raw, small sensor lime the iPhone it would be blazingly fast and more feature rich.
    07-27-2014 05:22 PM
  17. JamesPTao's Avatar
    I'm not sure that this megapixel war would extend further than 41 MP anytime soon...
    so for me, 50 MP sensor (not 50 MP image from several stitched 13 MP pictures which is what the Oppo Find 7 does) is unlikely

    8K video?
    damn, even 4K is way overkill for a mobile phone
    AFAIK, there is no 8K screen used in the world at this moment

    the camera tech possibilities have been discussed thoroughly in this thread...
    as for me now, I would prefer a 41 MP with a 1" sensor, an even more advanced OIS, ZEISS lens or Canon Liquid Lens, and adjustable aperture
    for the processing part, I'd prefer Qualcomm Snapdragon 805, 2 GB RAM, and a fast 64 GB internal memory (expandable or not, I don't really care)
    50 mp would be silly and a minamal improvement. It would take 61 to increase by 50% and 82mp to double the info. I don't think most people realize mp are exponential. To double the info you have to double the mp. So 9 mp increase is big for an 8 mp camera but a minimal improvement on a 41 mp camera.
    Beijendorf likes this.
    07-27-2014 05:26 PM
  18. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Tom may know what he's talking about but I for one do not think the Mc is the 1030... looking back through articles this rumour of the Mc being the 1030 first came up in comments on articles that didn't mention its predecessor and then some articles mentioned that it could be a new flagship or 1020 successor... Tom is the first reputable person that's stated that... If the tech is as new/game changing/good and has new OS features its 100% "940" or 935 or 939... From the way Microsoft have acted the last 2, 3 years, "listening" to their customers, especially the niche stuff there is no way a 1030 is anything but a 41 and up sensor... That phone has a crazy fan base with universities and labs that are finding mad uses for it and its sensor BECAUSE or its small size with monster sensor. It can do things an DSLR physically can't do because of size... Microscopes being one example... its too good to not make better....
    You are right the McLaren and 1030 are not the same phone. The 1030 is separate and will be an improvement on the 1020. It is still being tweaked and worked with. The camera sensor and mp will not go down. Ms is working on ways to improve shot processing times using various ideas.
    07-27-2014 05:30 PM
  19. salmanahmad's Avatar
    IPhone is a bad comparison if the 1020 used an 8 mp, non raw, small sensor lime the iPhone it would be blazingly fast and more feature rich.

    Well the 8 Megapixel approach is a good one, what I mean to say is that the iPhone's camera is blazingly fast because the processor is given only what it can chew.

    Plus Apple uses a best of both worlds approach by giving the iPhone an f2.2 aperture and ISO from 32 to 3200, but this is all useless for this discussion. If you want to know more of what I'm trying to say, message me.

    The guy is talking about 120 FPS capture which is not on Lumia, this is a genuine complaint but as far as this goes I don't think the current generation Lumia camera sensors can handle 120FPS, 60FPS possibly.
    07-27-2014 05:48 PM
  20. Beijendorf's Avatar
    You are right the McLaren and 1030 are not the same phone. The 1030 is separate and will be an improvement on the 1020. It is still being tweaked and worked with. The camera sensor and mp will not go down. Ms is working on ways to improve shot processing times using various ideas.
    I'm not convinced. The Goldfinger seems to have been originally intended as a 930, where the McLaren was then intended as a 1030. The common rumour was that all high-end phones would come with the 3D touch system, so the McLaren wasn't unique in that regard.
    07-27-2014 10:29 PM
  21. JamesPTao's Avatar
    I'm not convinced. The Goldfinger seems to have been originally intended as a 930, where the McLaren was then intended as a 1030. The common rumour was that all high-end phones would come with the 3D touch system, so the McLaren wasn't unique in that regard.
    I agree with the 3d touch being available only on high end phones by the McLaren was cancelled because Ms wasn't happy with the 3d touch on the form factor (at least not yet). If it was the 1030 and not a separate flagship meant to highlight their 3d touch it wouldn't have been cancelled simply delayed if that. The focus of the 1030 is the camera using it to promote their 3d touch and focus resources on that over the other technical challenges of the phone doesn't make much sense. It would unnecessarily complicate the process. But as is the norm with ms no-one really knows.
    07-28-2014 02:17 AM
  22. AndyM72's Avatar
    Well the 8 Megapixel approach is a good one, what I mean to say is that the iPhone's camera is blazingly fast because the processor is given only what it can chew.

    Plus Apple uses a best of both worlds approach by giving the iPhone an f2.2 aperture
    F-stop aperture, like f/2.2, is what is known as relative aperture. It literally means "lens focal length / 2.2". Because the iPhone sensor is tiny compared to the 1020, the lens focal length is a lot shorter for the same angle of view. So you have smaller number / 2.2 = smaller actual aperture. So there is less light coming in. Light is signal, so less light means worse signal to noise ratio.

    Give me cleaner, less noisy images over slo mo video any day!

    Edit: The only reason why the iPhone can do slo mo, is because it's using a high end chipset with fast data transfer from the camera module... but a low end camera (low res, small sensor size). So there is spare capacity in the interface between the chipset and camera to pump the video up to 120fps.
    Last edited by AndyM72; 07-28-2014 at 03:24 AM.
    07-28-2014 02:28 AM
  23. salmanahmad's Avatar
    F-stop aperture, like f/2.2, is what is known as relative aperture. It literally means "lens focal length / 2.2". Because the iPhone sensor is tiny compared to the 1020, the lens focal length is a lot shorter for the same angle of view. So you have smaller number / 2.2 = smaller actual aperture. So there is less light coming in. Light is signal, so less light means worse signal to noise ratio.

    Give me cleaner, less noisy images over slo mo video any day!

    Edit: The only reason why the iPhone can do slo mo, is because it's using a high end chipset with fast data transfer from the camera module... but a low end camera (low res, small sensor size). So there is spare capacity in the interface between the chipset and camera to pump the video up to 120fps.


    Agreed however I find neither approach good. iPhone sacrifices detail for speed while Lumia 1020 had a much bigger preference for detail instead of speed.



    In some comparisons of the 1020 and 5S's shots, 5S was able to keep the shots more in focus(but with more grain) whereas Lumia 1020 had less noisy, more detailed albeit less focused shots.



    The near perfect smartphone camera approach right now, according to me would either be the Lumia 1520's or the Xperia Z2's.
    Last edited by salmanahmad; 07-28-2014 at 08:27 AM.
    07-28-2014 06:03 AM
  24. AndyM72's Avatar
    In some comparisons of the 1020 and 5S's shots, 5S was able to keep the shots more in focus(but with more grain) whereas Lumia 1020 had less noisy, more detailed albeit less focused shots.
    Cameras with greater Depth of Field don't have to be quite so accurate with their focus.
    Beijendorf likes this.
    07-28-2014 06:08 AM
  25. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Cameras with greater Depth of Field don't have to be quite so accurate with their focus.
    If the depth of field is smaller than the focus is shallower meaning less is in focus away from the center of focus, pretty basic photography concept. If they wanted more in focus then use a larger aperture number.
    07-30-2014 10:31 AM
121 1234 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Blinking charging icon... What does that mean?
    By taymur in forum Nokia Lumia 920
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-28-2014, 03:12 AM
  2. Nokia Lumia 1025 is it coming soon or Late?
    By BilalSoomro17 in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-14-2014, 01:35 PM
  3. an update is ready to be downloaded
    By Rajat Patil in forum Windows Phone 8.1
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 07-06-2014, 10:13 PM
  4. Buy a Lumia 930 as a first wp phone ??
    By Qais Abu-Hasan in forum Nokia Lumia 930
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-06-2014, 02:46 PM
  5. Transfer games from lumia to laptop
    By switch side method in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-05-2014, 05:24 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD