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12-15-2014 10:07 PM
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  1. cba191's Avatar
    The purpose of a lot of flagships, though, is the development of new tech, features, or function. Flagships in most industries don't make money. But the tech then finds its way into the mid level and the budget phones where the profit is made.
    The flagships are the phone that the people on forums like this tend to gravitate to. The people that buy the flagships then promote the phone significantly more than the mid level and budget consumer.
    Last edited by cba191; 11-02-2014 at 12:27 AM.
    11-01-2014 02:08 AM
  2. Andrea988's Avatar
    The majority of users doesn't need a flagship, mid-level or even budget phones will do just fine for them. Not just in emerging markets, in developed markets, too.
    The high-end market is saturated, there's no need to bring out flagship after flagship. Developing a phone is very expensive, and you need to move a lot of units to make a profit. If you bring out a new flagship every 3 months just because some other manufacturer brings a new flagship out, you'll just end up haemorrhaging money. And there is a flagship; the 930 (or Icon for those in the US). It might not have the very latest specs, but it can still hold its own against the newest generation Android phones. Focus less on specs, and more on actual performance. (And yes, I know a flagship phone shouldn't be lacking features from lesser-spec'ed phones, like Glance, but I can look past that.)
    Keep in mind that the majority of users here, or any tech forum, are more feature-minded than the average consumer, so there is a bias in reactions.
    I think the one thing many of us forget in fittings like this is the fact that most people don't know what spec their phone has and don't care either. That's why most retailers have the spec sheet tucked away in the depths of their ads - people are just not that interested. They just want a decent phone. A lot of people buy the top model as a status symbol, not because of the specs. That's why the iPhone is such a success, if you bought it on specs alone the phone would probably be an abject failure when you consider the price of it.
    dameon_03 likes this.
    11-02-2014 05:22 AM
  3. Andrea988's Avatar
    From a business standpoint; Apple is king of the smartphones. It has around 50% profit margin and sell only high end smartphones pretty much! It has record profit this quarter and has a backlog of over 25 million iphones just in China alone! In the U.S.; there are no iPhone 6s to be found in quantities. Everything is to be shipped. You just cannot ask for a better demand scenario. Ebay selling the 6s at a premium! They still have a lot of countries to release the iphone 6 to for sales! In other words; Apple is clean up on the high end side of the smartphone industry where all the profit is!
    But there is only profit if you sell them in numbers. The point a lot of people forget is they only sell one (or more recently, two) models. If you consider how many phones Apple sells compared with the TOTAL number of phones that Samsung sell them Samsung probably sell more points overall.

    Remember too that Apples venture into the slightly lower end of the market with the 5c was a failure.
    11-02-2014 05:30 AM
  4. UncleGrandpa's Avatar
    Apple can take up to a year or more in between their so called flagship models. I'd say they're doing ok with that strategy. Last I read iPhones are outselling Samsung flagships by a huge margin. Hence Samsung poor third quarter showing. Samsung is in a pickle....they no longer have the high end market to themselves, and they can't compete on the low end with the cheap Chinese and Nokia phones.
    11-02-2014 06:07 AM
  5. creanyo's Avatar
    We have to wait until well into 2015...I dont think they will launch more phones before Win10...also we have to consider all that was involved in the Nokia purchase...to have the synergies up and running takes time...
    11-04-2014 03:44 PM
  6. bo_woods's Avatar
    I can understand that MS may want to offer good low ends for those reasons n stuff but at the same time they HAVE ENOUGH low end phones!!Like really HOW MANY DO U NEED??520,521,525,530!!like OMG That's enough!!They should focus on making and ADVERTISING excellent phones comparable to Samsung and apple if they want success and then alongside that they can have their low end devices,but theirs really not even a need to "upgrade" a low end device..its just stupid.once u add features or hugher specs to a device that makes the cost go up defeating the purpose of getting the device n the first place,they should just release one high end phone,one low end phone with different spec options to vary the price(like the sp3) and then one phablet option a year.Perfect scheme.As long as the devices are good and advertised well then we should have a winner
    maverick786us and haikallp like this.
    11-07-2014 06:04 PM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I think the one thing many of us forget in fittings like this is the fact that most people don't know what spec their phone has and don't care either. That's why most retailers have the spec sheet tucked away in the depths of their ads - people are just not that interested. They just want a decent phone. A lot of people buy the top model as a status symbol, not because of the specs. That's why the iPhone is such a success, if you bought it on specs alone the phone would probably be an abject failure when you consider the price of it.
    I disagree. Even "flagships" today are an absolute bargain when you consider the full retail prices from smartphones of a few years ago. My favorite Windows Mobile phone was the HP iPAQ 910c from 2007. Sticker shock? Try $650 on for size. Those 650 bones got you a 416mHz processor, 128mb RAM, 2.4" resistive screen, WM6.1, 3.2MP camera and the best keyboard ever put on a phone (sorry BB fans). My Treo 650 from 2004 was about the same amount and boy was that thing a spec monster.

    If a high-end phone from 2014 can cost the same as one from 10 years ago, I'd say STFU (not you in particular) and enjoy the best bang for the buck you'll ever see. A Lumia 635 goes for $100 out the door! That's crazy when you factor in B4YB.
    11-07-2014 07:59 PM
  8. haikallp's Avatar
    5C was a failre compared to the rest of their phones. Fact.
    11-07-2014 11:18 PM
  9. haikallp's Avatar
    It bothers me to but I understand their motive for doing that. The Lumia 530 is their best selling phone. Which means its the low end - mid range devices are the ones that are selling well. But by doing this, Microsoft is ******* its long-time WP users who wants to upgrade BUT attracting new users. They should release one high end device for every two low end-mid range device.
    maverick786us likes this.
    11-07-2014 11:21 PM
  10. Andrea988's Avatar
    Apple can take up to a year or more in between their so called flagship models. I'd say they're doing ok with that strategy. Last I read iPhones are outselling Samsung flagships by a huge margin. Hence Samsung poor third quarter showing. Samsung is in a pickle....they no longer have the high end market to themselves, and they can't compete on the low end with the cheap Chinese and Nokia phones.
    Yes but Samsung is just an example. It would be interesting to see who would win if you could buy any phone with your choice of any of the three operating systems (if you include Windows), which would sell the most! The point is we read all the time that the iPhone is the most popular phone but I think it's a false representation because if you want iOS you HAVE to buy an iPhone.

    If the only android phone you could buy was, say, the Samsung S5 and the only Windows phone was, say, the Lumia 930 then the sales figures would be completely different.

    Perhaps what I should have said to emphasise the point is who sells the most flagship phones, Apple or android? What I'm saying is if other manufacturers could make flagship phones with the iOS system which would come out on top then?
    maverick786us likes this.
    11-16-2014 05:38 AM
  11. Andrea988's Avatar
    I disagree. Even "flagships" today are an absolute bargain when you consider the full retail prices from smartphones of a few years ago. My favorite Windows Mobile phone was the HP iPAQ 910c from 2007. Sticker shock? Try $650 on for size. Those 650 bones got you a 416mHz processor, 128mb RAM, 2.4" resistive screen, WM6.1, 3.2MP camera and the best keyboard ever put on a phone (sorry BB fans). My Treo 650 from 2004 was about the same amount and boy was that thing a spec monster.

    If a high-end phone from 2014 can cost the same as one from 10 years ago, I'd say STFU (not you in particular) and enjoy the best bang for the buck you'll ever see. A Lumia 635 goes for $100 out the door! That's crazy when you factor in B4YB.
    But that's exactly the point I am making. Their are plenty of bargains out there that do exactly what people would need them to do, as you say you can get a 635 for $100 and a 930, which in my opinion is a better overall phone than the iPhone and less than half the price. There's no need for people to buy an iPhone if they want top spec, in fact based on specs alone it's nowhere near the top phone, so the only real reason for most people buying the iPhone is as a status symbol.
    11-16-2014 05:45 AM
  12. Andrea988's Avatar
    It bothers me to but I understand their motive for doing that. The Lumia 530 is their best selling phone. Which means its the low end - mid range devices are the ones that are selling well. But by doing this, Microsoft is ******* its long-time WP users who wants to upgrade BUT attracting new users. They should release one high end device for every two low end-mid range device.
    The problem is if only 10% of your customers buy the flagship model - and it's probably less than that - why would you do that? That's why supermarkets don't show you shelves of fishing tackle as soon as you walk in. To be successful you have to appeal to the masses, not the minority.

    To be honest I take the opposite view. Flagship phones are expensive so I don't want to have to replace mine every few months to have the latest kit. I'll be perfectly happy with my 930 for at least another year, and money in the bank to boot.
    11-16-2014 05:49 AM
  13. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    The thing that kills me about all of this is that the same people begging for a new high-end device yesterday will be begging for a trade up when they release Windows 10 and the actual high-end devices that they want to release, the ones they've taken their time with and developed in parallel with Threshold. They'll be broke from just blowing money on an out of contract phone and will somehow blame Microsoft. If your pocket is seriously on fire and needs to dump dead weight that badly, just Paypal me $600.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    11-17-2014 01:06 AM
  14. chris722's Avatar
    It's called bait and switch. Sell a phone for $35 today, turn people onto the ecosystem and they'll purchase a $200 phone tomorrow. Technically, you don't need that $200 phone because the $35 phone still works well, but you want it to run games and other apps that do not work on 512 MB of RAM. I think it is a sound strategy.

    The iPhone 5C isn't the worst thing in the world. It still sells unlocked for $400. Apple's problem isn't that the phone is low end, but that a low end iPhone, is merely an older iPhone. So the issue is not that the 5C is a piece of junk, but that you can still get by on an old 4S. Apple also cannibalizes the iPhone when they release two models every year, as opposed to one; the 5C is a very good example of what happens when that strategy does not play out as initially planned.

    With WP, no one in their right mind wants older WP that run 7, 7.5, or 8, so there is an incentive for Microsoft to develop low end phones that ship with 8.1.
    xandros9 likes this.
    12-07-2014 09:20 AM
  15. iamtim's Avatar
    so the only real reason for most people buying the iPhone is as a status symbol.
    Nope, can't get with you on that one.
    12-08-2014 01:17 PM
  16. tgp's Avatar
    the only real reason for most people buying the iPhone is as a status symbol.
    Nope, can't get with you on that one.
    Me neither. I am far from an Apple fan, but Apple is where it's at for a reason. They earned their respect fair and square. It is still arguably the best overall experience you can get on a mobile device. I have lots of friends who use iPhones and/or iPads, and as far as I know none of them do it for status. However, a lot of them probably use Apple devices because it's what they know and are familiar with. Anyway, Microsoft would do anything necessary to get the following Apple has if it was possible. Don't blame Apple.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-08-2014 02:11 PM
  17. several potatos's Avatar
    Me neither. I am far from an Apple fan, but Apple is where it's at for a reason. They earned their respect fair and square. It is still arguably the best overall experience you can get on a mobile device. I have lots of friends who use iPhones and/or iPads, and as far as I know none of them do it for status. However, a lot of them probably use Apple devices because it's what they know and are familiar with. Anyway, Microsoft would do anything necessary to get the following Apple has if it was possible. Don't blame Apple.
    Gonna disagree. Having worked as a salesman in T-Mobile for so many years, I have noticed that virtually all iPhone accessories accommodate the large-*** Apple logo on the iPhone, regardless of the effect on the product. People want to show-off their expensive purchase.
    12-08-2014 07:12 PM
  18. iamtim's Avatar
    People want to show-off their expensive purchase.
    Which totally explains the lackluster sales of cases that obscure the Apple logo.

    ...

    Oh, wait, that's not how it is at all. I wonder how all those people show off the Apple logo with a case covering it? Hmm.
    12-08-2014 07:22 PM
  19. prasath1234's Avatar
    It could be better if Microsoft brings some form of pre order system or flash sales for those who are interested in flagship windows phone if any can get it.Produce only flagship as per demand if any.Then there will be no loss.Those guys very much interested in flagship if any will buy it.For others not willing to go for windows phone flagship will be happy with low or mid end.
    From Windows phone
    12-09-2014 01:30 PM
  20. SlickShoesRUCrazy's Avatar
    It could be better if Microsoft brings some form of pre order system or flash sales for those who are interested in flagship windows phone if any can get it.Produce only flagship as per demand if any.Then there will be no loss.Those guys very much interested in flagship if any will buy it.For others not willing to go for windows phone flagship will be happy with low or mid end.
    From Windows phone
    all they got to do is do what oneplus is doing, but without the invite system.

    Just manufacture along side demand instead of having tons of stock just sitting on shelves constantly.

    And of course make a damn ultra high end phone that runs on EVERYTHING lol. not just select carries.
    maverick786us likes this.
    12-10-2014 12:47 PM
  21. maverick786us's Avatar
    Here is another example which shows the incompetence of Nokia / MS. MWC is an event, most of us eagerly await for.

    Samsung will come up with Galaxy S6 ,
    Sony will come up with amazing Xperia Z4,
    LG will come up with Optimus G3 Pro or G4

    and what Nokia / MS answer to these devices will be LOW END PIECE OF JUNK!!! Atleast they should have launched a 1520 successor, that would tear the back of Note 4.
    12-15-2014 10:07 PM
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