02-03-2015 05:22 AM
54 123
tools
  1. LumiaWorld's Avatar
    I agree. We need something that no other company has. Something that will blow the minds of the people.

    I read something months ago about a touch screen that lifts up or something... I can't explain it properly lol I'm really not good at English. It's like the virtual keyboard will lift up, requiring the user to CLICK it (just like a real keyboard) whenever they're typing
    Guytronic, a5cent and RumoredNow like this.
    12-06-2014 10:43 PM
  2. Guytronic's Avatar
    Who knows what's in store for phone camera technology.
    More and more photo journalists shoot with phones now.

    Look and feel is vital for a lot of pro photographers meaning they want to handle a camera that feels like a camera.
    I know I was a bit startled at the quality of pics taken with my 521 when I was exploring the world of the smartphone initially.

    I'm almost sure the existing NOKIA Oyj and others like SONY have prototypes right now that will blow my socks off camera-wise.
    Heck what would happen if NIKON, Minolta, Panasonic\Leica and Canon turn their attention to the mobile device market.

    Something I always overlook is the video capabilities of these phones.
    I'm sure many of us have hundreds or more in dollars of video cameras sitting in boxes unused.

    I'm thinking the future is here and we'll see it very soon.
    12-06-2014 11:26 PM
  3. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I agree. We need something that no other company has. Something that will blow the minds of the people.

    I read something months ago about a touch screen that lifts up or something... I can't explain it properly lol I'm really not good at English. It's like the virtual keyboard will lift up, requiring the user to CLICK it (just like a real keyboard) whenever they're typing
    I believe this is the one you're thinking of... Tactus Technology ?
    TechFreak1 and LumiaWorld like this.
    12-06-2014 11:37 PM
  4. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Wow. Really? Apple fans say that? Now I hate them more than ever LOL
    Lol, some are just too far gone and nothing will "cure" them of their "addiction"..
    Having said that not all that closed minded :).

    Who knows what's in store for phone camera technology.
    More and more photo journalists shoot with phones now.

    Look and feel is vital for a lot of pro photographers meaning they want to handle a camera that feels like a camera.
    I know I was a bit startled at the quality of pics taken with my 521 when I was exploring the world of the smartphone initially.

    I'm almost sure the existing NOKIA Oyj and others like SONY have prototypes right now that will blow my socks off camera-wise.
    Heck what would happen if NIKON, Minolta, Panasonic\Leica and Canon turn their attention to the mobile device market.

    Something I always overlook is the video capabilities of these phones.
    I'm sure many of us have hundreds or more in dollars of video cameras sitting in boxes unused.

    I'm thinking the future is here and we'll see it very soon.
    That is true, when you think about it and also with the advent of smartphones people are catching more & more with their smartphones especially when a natural disaster happens.
    However if the camera companies into the smartphone scene that would be interesting, just hope they don't replicate this mishap Face-Detection Cameras: Glitches Spur Charges of Racism - TIME

    Or they don't make anything remotely similar to the monstrosity that is the galaxy zoom... lol.


    I believe this is the one you're thinking of... Tactus Technology ?
    Mind blown!

    Just hope a company doesn't buy them out and shelves everything... that would be a total loss for humanity.
    As with this tech physical keys will no longer need to be manufactured therefore reducing a lot of waste and byproducts that are released / dumped.

    Also it i just me or there is no audio in the videos??
    Guytronic and Ed Boland like this.
    12-07-2014 03:24 AM
  5. Brian McMahon's Avatar
    Who knows what's in store for phone camera technology.
    More and more photo journalists shoot with phones now.

    Look and feel is vital for a lot of pro photographers meaning they want to handle a camera that feels like a camera.
    I know I was a bit startled at the quality of pics taken with my 521 when I was exploring the world of the smartphone initially.

    I'm almost sure the existing NOKIA Oyj and others like SONY have prototypes right now that will blow my socks off camera-wise.
    Heck what would happen if NIKON, Minolta, Panasonic\Leica and Canon turn their attention to the mobile device market.

    Something I always overlook is the video capabilities of these phones.
    I'm sure many of us have hundreds or more in dollars of video cameras sitting in boxes unused.

    I'm thinking the future is here and we'll see it very soon.
    Panasonic is already testing the water with the new Lumix dmc-cm1, I ordered one from Panasonic UK last week so eagerly awaiting it's arrival. MS really need a flagship that stands out to be relevant in the market, 1020 is widely accepted as the standard for mobile photography but from what I have seen of the cm1 it's pushing the standards into RX100 M3 territory.

    Won't ever let go of my 1020 but the cm1 ticks all the right boxes apart from Android. Now is the time for MS to show us their hand and bring the wow factor back into WP.
    Guytronic likes this.
    12-07-2014 05:14 AM
  6. Steve Adams's Avatar
    I say the 1030 will be THE FLAGSHIP. Best camera in the biz, powerful running gear, I am guessing it will be available with 64gb and 128gb, 3gb ram and a decent processor. No SD card slot however. Really don't need one with increased memory onboard and onedrive. Size wize, I hope they keep it under 5". It need not be any bigger. and keep some girth to it. Slim is NOT the best.
    12-07-2014 05:32 AM
  7. RumoredNow's Avatar
    What if the shell incorporated the Camera Grip add on of the 1020? All one piece with the phone and including a dedicated trigger? Maybe add a timer button or some other hard wired controls?

    Then everyone would freak when you took a call on your camera.
    Guytronic and TechFreak1 like this.
    12-07-2014 09:35 AM
  8. Nemesis-X's Avatar
    I agree. We need something that no other company has. Something that will blow the minds of the people.
    I think the real problem that Windows Phone faces isn't about the tech that's put into the phone. It's the number one explanation that general non forum people say when you mention Windows Phone and that's "LACK OF APPS". And moreso the perceived lack of apps because as many of us here know, the App store for WP has many apps that are 3rd party and even 1st party that can provide a very good app experience.

    But what needs to be changed is that whole App perception of the public, because Apple and Android has hammered that home ever since apps became a thing.

    You can put the best camera in the phone with the best hardware and specs but as long as the Normals see WP as having no apps, or not having Their apps, then sales will continue to suck and marketshare will remain low.

    I'd love to hear everyone's opinion on my opinion : )
    12-07-2014 10:55 AM
  9. Steve Adams's Avatar
    I agree, the persona of no apps is the thing Microsoft needs to take care of. Most every app that I need is on my phone. However, all the store apps etc are not yet. Microsoft needs to get on the ball and convince them to make the apps. As do the user population. That being said, Everyone here lately is ******** about not having a "flagship". I think the 1020, icon and 1520 are just fine flagships. they run the OS fast, and the hardware is top notch. I don't get the flagship argument.
    Nicholas Maguire likes this.
    12-07-2014 01:15 PM
  10. Guytronic's Avatar
    As long as there's a wishlist...
    How about native Bluetooth/wireless photo flash attachment control via an application for any Lumia camera phone?
    RumoredNow and calfee20 like this.
    12-07-2014 03:42 PM
  11. anon(27512)'s Avatar
    I'm hoping the 1030 will be a flagship device. Im resisting the urge to buy a 1520. I've been interested in windows phone for awhile and now it is finally starting to get the apps I use regularly. Hoping the first Microsoft lumia will be a flagship.
    12-08-2014 04:59 AM
  12. wphashan's Avatar
    12-11-2014 01:32 AM
  13. msirapian's Avatar
    As long as there's a wishlist...
    How about native Bluetooth/wireless photo flash attachment control via an application for any Lumia camera phone?
    This was possible on the 808 with the AD-54 nokia audio controller. Should be easy to implement even via SW update.
    12-11-2014 03:48 PM
  14. secher's Avatar
    I don't want it to be larger than 5"... Around the size of the 930, and with a flatter camera module.
    At one point, there were rumors about Nokia looking into pelican imaging...
    Pelican Imaging. Life in 3D.
    With an array of smaller cameras, depth information is included in the each picture, so true refocusing can be done after the picture is taken. Also the camera doesn't need to focus to take a picture.

    The specs should be good enough to make people want it, even without the camera.
    Newest snapdragon, and a lot of ram is fine for me :)

    I would love to get the 1020 successor, but really at this point, I would probably buy any new flagship phone from Microsoft... :)
    12-23-2014 07:22 PM
  15. camstreet1's Avatar
    Probably what microsoft needs to do is find a way to allow WP to run Android apps as though they were native.. would solve the app problem in one fell swoop, and can then focus on perceived benefits of UI, camera tech, battery life etc. Don't know how feasible this is though?

    On the camera MP side, 50+ MP would be an important improvement. I think people are missing the point when they talk about the oversampled 5MP photos you can share online. The real benefit in my mind (for the casual user) is the lossless post-hoc digital zoom. It's currently 4x, but I think this could be a real selling point if improved to 8x, 10x, 20x etc over time.

    On a separate note, I don't understand why this lossless zoom tech hasn't yet been incorporated into compact digital cameras - if you coupled it with eg 20x optical zoom, results could be incredible.
    12-30-2014 08:08 AM
  16. realwarder's Avatar
    Probably what microsoft needs to do is find a way to allow WP to run Android apps as though they were native.. would solve the app problem in one fell swoop, and can then focus on perceived benefits of UI, camera tech, battery life etc. Don't know how feasible this is though?
    .
    No. Would kill entire Windows platform, not just phone.
    calfee20 likes this.
    12-30-2014 08:13 AM
  17. camstreet1's Avatar
    No. Would kill entire Windows platform, not just phone.
    ​Why?
    12-30-2014 08:18 AM
  18. secher's Avatar
    Because if developers can just make Android apps, they will have no interest in making WinRT apps. They can cover the same number of users by making one app instead of two...
    WinRT will die - and WinRT universal apps the big bet for Windows 10... If they don't get developers on board, seriously on board, they will die...
    RumoredNow likes this.
    01-06-2015 07:53 AM
  19. Beijendorf's Avatar
    On the camera MP side, 50+ MP would be an important improvement. I think people are missing the point when they talk about the oversampled 5MP photos you can share online. The real benefit in my mind (for the casual user) is the lossless post-hoc digital zoom. It's currently 4x, but I think this could be a real selling point if improved to 8x, 10x, 20x etc over time.
    It's important to remember that there is no such thing as "lossless digital zoom". It's a marketing gimmick. When you crop an image from a Lumia 1020 you lose quality. You get less pixels to work with, motion blur is far more noticeable and noise can't be minimised by sampling from adjacent pixels. What casual users likely need is the ability to get great images in all conditions, something not dictated by megapixels. Add too high of a resolution and all you get is a slow camera with zero extra benefits.

    On a separate note, I don't understand why this lossless zoom tech hasn't yet been incorporated into compact digital cameras - if you coupled it with eg 20x optical zoom, results could be incredible.
    Because "digital zoom" isn't actually zoom. Essentially every digital camera ever made can do "digital zoom", which is actually simply cropping an already captured image. Optical zoom is the only genuine zoom feature, where you actually magnify the image you want to capture on the sensor.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    01-06-2015 08:15 AM
  20. camstreet1's Avatar
    It's important to remember that there is no such thing as "lossless digital zoom". It's a marketing gimmick. ... Optical zoom is the only genuine zoom feature, where you actually magnify the image you want to capture on the sensor.
    I think you're totally wrong about this. Read this article What is lossless zoom and how does it work in the Lumia 1020 and Xperia Z1? and come back with any comments. Lossless zoom is a real thing (as far as I can tell), and not the same as the old 'crop a photo and make pixels larger' technique. There will be a little bit of increased noise due to the absence of oversampling, but that's it.

    So my previous comments stand (unless someone can demonstrate this is pure gimmick).
    01-06-2015 10:51 AM
  21. camstreet1's Avatar
    Hopefully MS don't share that point of view. They're going to need people to buy a windows tablet/laptop instead of a chrome/android/ios one, and if they once again lag behind in perception of available apps and feature parity, they're going to struggle as they have w/ windows phone. Setting up a new walled garden doesn't work if you're already well behind your competitors, in my view.
    01-06-2015 10:59 AM
  22. Beijendorf's Avatar
    I think you're totally wrong about this. Read this article What is lossless zoom and how does it work in the Lumia 1020 and Xperia Z1? and come back with any comments. Lossless zoom is a real thing (as far as I can tell), and not the same as the old 'crop a photo and make pixels larger' technique. There will be a little bit of increased noise due to the absence of oversampling, but that's it.

    So my previous comments stand (unless someone can demonstrate this is pure gimmick).
    The article you linked on PhoneArena is based on the Nokia Lumia 1020 whitepaper. That very whitepaper won't call it "lossless zoom" (in fact Nokia never seem to have if you search the web, they call it "re-invented zoom"). What they do say in the whitepaper is that you can digitally crop the image and still end up with a 5 MP image output.

    No surprise there since you have 38 MP to work with.

    And that's where Nokia's "re-invented zoom", better known as "oversampling" kicks in - an enhanced way of generating and cropping an image.
    Cropping part of the image and letting the algorithms oversample the remaining pixels is likely give you a higher quality output than cropping the same area without oversampling [citation needed]. The more you crop, the less sensor area and fewer sensor pixels are offered to the algorithms to generate the resulting 5 MP image. It's a improved way of cropping an image, sure, but not a lossless zoom. At maximum crop you essentially end up with the capture of a 1/12" sensor with a 1.12 m pixel size - arguably worse than the first ever iPhone.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    01-07-2015 06:47 AM
  23. camstreet1's Avatar
    And that's where Nokia's "re-invented zoom", better known as "oversampling" kicks in - an enhanced way of generating and cropping an image.
    I don't think you've quite understood 'lossless' zoom, and have got how it works the opposite way round. The oversampling occurs more with the normal unzoomed 5 MP image than it does with the zoomed image. Here's how it works without zoom:
    - Camera takes a 38 MP image, and then uses algorithms to make an oversampled 5 MP image in which several pixels from the original 38 MP image are combined to make a high quality 'superpixel'. The end results is a 5MP image created from the original 38 MP version with far more detail and precision than you'd get if you used a 5 MP sensor.

    Now onto the zoom. Normal digital zoom works by interpolation, i.e. you start with a 5 MP image, digitally increase it to 15 MP (I've heard this called oversampling too, confusingly), then you take a 5 MP rectangle, move it to where you want to zoom to, and crop around that rectangle, making a 3x digitally zoomed image.

    However, the 1020's 'lossless' zoom starts from the 38 MP original, and lets you take a 5 MP rectangle and move it anywhere on that massive 38 MP image, and when you crop it you get the maximum possible lossless zoom at that resolution. It's 'lossless', because no interpolation or oversampling is needed to generate additional pixels.

    Perhaps that's what you meant as well, but it wasn't clear. Either way, the 1020's digital zoom tech will give results similar to an optical zoom coupled to a smaller resolution sensor.

    Why am I going on about this? Comes back to my original point. Increasing the sensor resolution on the 1020 successor will mean that images can be zoomed even further and at higher quality. That's a feature I want to see, and so I disagree with people who say increasing above 41 MP won't deliver any benefit. It may not improve the unzoomed 5 MP pictures much, but it will mean pictures can be zoomed in even further without having to rely on pixel interpolation - which is what people mean when they say 'lossless digital zoom'. If this can be coupled with optical zoom, so much the better.
    duvik7 likes this.
    01-11-2015 04:40 PM
  24. clitrenta's Avatar
    I SO do want to buy a successor to the 1020 or 1520 but am stopped by app availability. I'm not app crazed like a lot of people (like iPhone fans) but I do need what I need. That said, I am totally be willing to go back to Windows Phone if the next high end phone out makes me sit up and take notice. Now that we have the MS Band watch, I'm ready to go back. I have always preferred the Windows OS but could get more function with my Note Edge (great phone). Still, I miss my Lumia and I will always believe the Lumias have the best cameras on a phone - period. The live tiles are great and the OS is very smooth. I don't think we need zillions of apps but if MS ever shored that part up, I think they'd see a huge upturn in business. As it is, all I ever see is "get the iPhone or Android app here". So sick of that even if I do have and Android.
    duvik7 likes this.
    01-12-2015 12:48 PM
  25. Beijendorf's Avatar
    I know how classical digital 'zoom' works as well as how Nokia approached digital 'zoom'. Nokia's approach to it was merely an enhanced way of doing it. It's still lossy and is called "re-invented zoom" rather than "lossless zoom".

    Why am I going on about this? Comes back to my original point. Increasing the sensor resolution on the 1020 successor will mean that images can be zoomed even further and at higher quality. That's a feature I want to see, and so I disagree with people who say increasing above 41 MP won't deliver any benefit. It may not improve the unzoomed 5 MP pictures much, but it will mean pictures can be zoomed in even further without having to rely on pixel interpolation - which is what people mean when they say 'lossless digital zoom'. If this can be coupled with optical zoom, so much the better.
    Here's where we are in complete disagreement.

    Sensor area utilised at full zoom
    Nokia Lumia 1020: ~1/12" (1/1.5" unzoomed)
    Apple iPhone 3G: 1/4"

    While the Lumia 1020 sensor size is the third biggest one in a camera phone, it's still small compared to dedicated cameras. Digitally zooming, meaning you essentially only use a small part of that already small sensor will also result in comparably sub-par images. You need a large sensor in order to properly capture light.

    If there's something the future camera flagship needs it's a larger sensor, not more megapixels.

    Sensor pixel size at full zoom
    Nokia Lumia 1020: 1.12 m (7.84 m unzoomed (7 pixels oversampled into one))
    Sony Cybershot DSC-RX100 III: 5.8 m

    The larger the pixels, the higher quality images you can generally expect. If you use the sensor as Nokia intended, by oversampling from adjacent pixels, you can absolutely get a quality output since the "superpixel" is large and can filter out noise. The stand-alone 1.12 m pixel size is smaller than what comes in the worst modern dedicated digital cameras though. Increasing the resolution further would more than likely mean you're just making the individual sensor pixels even smaller. You may be able to "zoom in" further without having to utilise interpolation, but the resulting quality would without a doubt be atrocious. It'll also take longer to process the images and they'll take up more space.

    From my point of quality over quantity, it would make a lot more sense to increase the sensor size and pixel size to give you a 1" sensor with 20 MP resolution. Couple it with a 2X optical zoom and you'll get a fast, high-quality camera with improved low-light operation and fantastic zooming capabilities.

    If you want to process the image further, do so at home. A computer with good image processing software can generate a better "digitally zoomed" image from the RAW than your smartphone can anyway.

    TL;DR: Nobody would buy a camera with a 1/12" sensor and a 1.12 m pixel size. Fully "digitally zooming" on a Nokia Lumia 1020 is just that.
    01-15-2015 03:01 PM
54 123

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-06-2014, 02:34 AM
  2. Windows phone heading back to deaths door
    By sportex in forum Windows Phone 8.1
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-05-2014, 05:59 PM
  3. Five Nights at Freddy's 1 and 2 creep their way onto the Windows Phone Store
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-05-2014, 05:50 PM
  4. Disqus 2 now available for Windows Phone with new redesign
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-05-2014, 05:00 PM
  5. Watch Twitch on your phone or tablet with 8Stream
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-05-2014, 04:11 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD