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12-16-2014 01:51 PM
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  1. someone2639's Avatar
    You know, if you really don't want low ends, then ask Qualcomm to stop making S200!
    12-15-2014 06:07 AM
  2. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    You know, if you really don't want low ends, then ask Qualcomm to stop making S200!
    What does that have to do with MS making low end handsets?

    Answer? Absolutely nothing. Nothing wrong with low ends, they have their place. Question is, how many do we need?
    MikeSo likes this.
    12-15-2014 06:10 AM
  3. realwarder's Avatar
    And so the excuses start again....i am of the firm belief that yet another budget model is NOT needed. MS/Nok already has that segment covered from head to toe. Additionally, to add yet another device to the already confusing numbering scheme is not needed. The Lumia 520/530 should be championing the ultra low end since its about what, over 2yrs old now. Microsoft seems to be adopting Samsung's approach. Throwing a platoon of cheap devices to the wall, diluting your brand and see which device sticks.. Instead of creating and delivering focused devices, Microsoft is swinging in the dark at a target that's already well serviced.
    While in developed markets the 5XX are good value, there is a lot of the world where people just don't have that type of money. Microsoft are right to head lower and provide an emerging markets product for as absolutely low as they can get. After all, they are after volume sales and that is not going to happen at the high end - and when devices are cheapest, if you are basically selling for cost you have the least to waste.

    Let's face it - by doing this they can effectively race to second place market share in sales. What a headline "Microsoft outsells Apple" will do for the platform as a whole. Sure, Apple may have sold 50 million for $700 and Microsoft 51 million for $30, but that doesn't matter - suddenly Microsoft are a player - just like Android became one. Heck, Microsoft could almost give away 51 million handsets at that price and still feel happy...
    Last edited by realwarder; 12-15-2014 at 08:06 AM. Reason: edited because my bad math!
    12-15-2014 08:03 AM
  4. Stefan Holder's Avatar
    While in developed markets the 5XX are good value, there is a lot of the world where people just don't have that type of money. Microsoft are right to head lower and provide an emerging markets product for as absolutely low as they can get. After all, they are after volume sales and that is not going to happen at the high end - and when devices are cheapest, if you are basically selling for cost you have the least to waste.

    Let's face it - by doing this they can effectively race to second place market share in sales. What a headline "Microsoft outsells Apple" will do for the platform as a whole. Sure, Apple may have sold 50 million for $700 and Microsoft 51 million for $30, but that doesn't matter - suddenly Microsoft are a player - just like Android became one. Heck, Microsoft could give away 51 million handsets at that price and still feel happy... they spend more that that on NFL advertising alone!

    I understand what ur saying.. But I'm saying that another "new" device is not needed to service those folks..take the 2yr old 520/530 models you currently have now and push them to those regions. I bet the cost to manufacture those models now have dropped significantly. Recycle those models to meet ur goal.. Not create a whole other line of devices.
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    12-15-2014 08:06 AM
  5. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I understand what ur saying.. But I'm saying that another "new" device is not needed to service those folks..take the 2yr old 520/530 models you currently have now and push them to those regions. I bet the cost to manufacture those models now have dropped significantly. Recycle those models to meet ur goal.. Not create a whole other line of devices.
    We must not forget that there are other low cost OEMs already making low end WPs. Though everyone wants a Lumia of course...
    Stefan Holder likes this.
    12-15-2014 08:26 AM
  6. realwarder's Avatar
    I understand what ur saying.. But I'm saying that another "new" device is not needed to service those folks..take the 2yr old 520/530 models you currently have now and push them to those regions. I bet the cost to manufacture those models now have dropped significantly. Recycle those models to meet ur goal.. Not create a whole other line of devices.
    No, in this market things move really quickly, specifically component integration and part availability. The 520 models are a couple of years old and the newer chipsets/ICs do more with less parts and are more readily available making the parts cheaper (e.g. SD200 over S4). Likely newer phones will have 1/3 less components that are more efficient requiring lower capacity (cheaper) batteries, smaller cases etc. If you're planning on making millions of something every saving matters and if you can get a 1/3 less cost it's worth a new phone design for sure.
    Stefan Holder, MikeSo and AstroPop like this.
    12-15-2014 09:19 AM
  7. AeroAqua's Avatar
    The first "nokia" with 4xx(x) ?..
    12-15-2014 10:26 AM
  8. anthonyng's Avatar
    The Blu Win Jr is awesome espeically if you got it for $50! It's only NA though. I guess they want something like that world wide?
    12-15-2014 02:22 PM
  9. fdalbor's Avatar
    If this works Microsoft will be hailed as brilliant. If it doesn't they will be hailed as fools. Trouble is which one will it be. Most tech people think the internet is the future PERIOD. IF this gets more people on it then all the better. Going to help the eye glass market for sure. Phones I have now are fine, more than enough. Put 1200$ aside a year ago to get a upscale phone and new tablet. Haven't fell the need to spend it yet. But I will one day, just not today. At the rate Microsoft is going with high end phones I hope I live long enough to enjoy one.
    RumoredNow and xandros9 like this.
    12-15-2014 02:46 PM
  10. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Ugh...someone shoot me in the face, please.

    I'm so sick of Microsoft's inability to produce a quality device, and we're not even a year into their existence as an OEM. They've yet to release a single device with a non-budget SoC, and the only thing that saves the 830 from being another budget turd is the camera and wireless charging. Meanwhile, they cancel McLaren, offer no substitute, make it sound like it could be another 8 months (the W10 release window) before there is a flagship, and then they push out budget device after budget device (535, 630, 730/735, 830), and they're throwing in a fifth budget device for good measure.

    Microsoft needs to either release a high-end device or announce that seeing is believing, and that they're incapable of releasing a high-end device, because I'm sick of sitting on my 920 after 25 months and wondering if I'll have a replacement option before that promised, 3-year upgrade path dies.
    MikeSo likes this.
    12-15-2014 04:13 PM
  11. MikeSo's Avatar
    Yes, now we have an official throw away device. How sweet! More tech garbage. Woot!
    Can't wait to have more phones for people that never buy apps! And that apps won't run on due to too low memory! That'll attract developers!
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    12-15-2014 04:19 PM
  12. MikeSo's Avatar
    Here's my thought. It's just a though, disagree if you want.

    If this phone is only sold in developing markets then you're not going to attract first world developers. Local developers maybe.
    If this phone is sold in first world market, you're attracting people who don't or can't spend money.
    In which way is this at all attractive to developers?

    It's not just about getting numbers so much as about the right user base. That's the point people seem to be missing. Yes numbers are important. Numbers in the right area are more important.

    I have nothing against low end phones I just find this bombardment of low end hardware depressing when we've had people asking for a decent flagship. I'm guessing this is like the 535, another 'left over' from Nokia.

    I'm hoping, for MS sake, that they come out with a decent line up at W10 and I hope they have some surprises with developers on board. I don't think cross platform is enough of an attraction for developers in my view but I am happy to be proven wrong.

    WP still has a relatively poor reputation. Continuously throwing low end hardware at the situation won't help it.
    Exactly what I was going to write.
    Also, I agree that even if W10 has more appeal due to PC/tablet market share, a lot of the phone apps will not be used by PC/tablet users, so the market share is for many purposes an illusion. Lyft, TouchTunes, Waze, etc, will primarily be used on phones, so those developers won't care if PCs can run them.
    I think W10 will be a boon for sure, but let's not pretend it will fix everything magically. Especially not in crap devices like these.
    Last edited by MikeSo; 12-16-2014 at 02:11 PM.
    prasath1234 and N_LaRUE like this.
    12-15-2014 04:29 PM
  13. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Here's my thought. It's just a though, disagree if you want...

    ...I'm hoping, for MS sake, that they come out with a decent line up at W10 and I hope they have some surprises with developers on board. I don't think cross platform is enough of an attraction for developers in my view but I am happy to be proven wrong.

    WP still has a relatively poor reputation. Continuously throwing low end hardware at the situation won't help it.
    I'm not disagreeing. I was merely presenting my theory as to the reason they may be another lower end device now...

    A Dual Blow to the App Gap problem, as it were. More budget users on phone and Universal Apps adding more devices into the potential audience.

    And I fully expect that High End devices will make the Spring Announcements along side Windows 10 and Universal Apps. Why announce a major OS sea change without some major hardware?
    DavstarApps and xandros9 like this.
    12-15-2014 05:05 PM
  14. DavstarApps's Avatar
    Can't wait to have more phones for people that never buy apps! And that apps won't run on due to too low memory! That'll attract developers!
    Actually they have made some changes within the last year that allow carrier billing for a ton of countries that were previously unable to purchase apps because they had no credit cards. I used to get e-mails from people in those countries who always asked for free versions of apps for this reason, as they had no way of buying them. While not a massive increase in sales since that was introduced, I have noticed a lot of purchases from countries that had sold 0 before, so there is more access for people in those countries now than there used to be.

    The low memory thing is another issue, but usually only for games unless the developer is doing something else really memory intensive.
    RumoredNow and AstroPop like this.
    12-15-2014 08:00 PM
  15. AstroPop's Avatar
    And so the excuses start again....i am of the firm belief that yet another budget model is NOT needed. MS/Nok already has that segment covered from head to toe. Additionally, to add yet another device to the already confusing numbering scheme is not needed. The Lumia 520/530 should be championing the ultra low end since its about what, over 2yrs old now. Microsoft seems to be adopting Samsung's approach. Throwing a platoon of cheap devices to the wall, diluting your brand and see which device sticks.. Instead of creating and delivering focused devices, Microsoft is swinging in the dark at a target that's already well serviced.
    The low end is NOT serviced. It's a constant race and one that Nokia does very well for a few decades now. Samsung has the galaxy Trend or whatever competing as one of their best selling devices in the 70 range in Europe, Microsoft is responding to that with a device that needs to be cheaper even than the 530, Samsung isn't stopping either. If MS stopped now Samsung would undercut them in price within 6 months. MS smartly has the cheapest smart phone on the market in Europe.

    Low end is where the massive growth volume is at everywhere but monopolized US, where you need to pay for a high end device in your contract whether you take one or not. And that low end is the number that's padding Android market share when tech bloggers look at market share and count WP out. They need to get into good double digits and this is the way.

    Releasing a 4 series as the new entry level in NO WAY takes anything away from your phone. New flagships won't come until Windows 10, until then they'll make the volume play at increasing the mindshare from the current irrelevant levels to double digits. People attack these phones with a bizarre hostility.

    • 4 Series is entry level
    • 5 series is the low end
    • 6 series is the low-mid
    • 7 series is the mid range
    • 8 series is mid-high
    • 9 series is the high end


    ALL of these ranges have their spot in the market, the 4 & 5 series even have WAY bigger position on the market than the 7 & 8 series.
    12-16-2014 01:51 PM
40 12

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