The Lumia 1020 might no longer be king of cameraphones

[N_LaRUE]

The Lumix is mainly a camera that happens to run Android. Almost in the same vein as the Galaxy K Zoom.
The new Asus one remains to be seen...but Asus doesn't have a big tradition in cameras. Also the camera sports a 13mp shooter, which means even with the zoom, it may not produce images as good as the 1020. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

I agree about the Lumix. It's a niche device, not really a phone, kind of ugly too. The Asus device is rather nice looking. As for tradition in cameras, you could technically say that about any OEM aside from Sony and Samsung. This is all reactively new tech. Nokia's first run with cameras was with the N8 and let's face it, though great, that bulge was a tad annoying.

The difference with the Asus one is that it's optical zoom vs digital zoom. Whether that matters is always a question. Does 3X optical zoom match the 1020? I don't know, from the pics I've seen done on the 1020 they're practically DSLR quality when done right.

Currently the Nokia 808 and 1020 remain pretty much undisputed on the smartphone camera market. However it won't take long for Sony, Apple and Samsung to put out something that might end up beating it. Sony's Z3 cameras already match the 930/1520 (and beat them in low light). Apple's iCrap 6 produces stunning 8mp images that match when not beat the ones from the 930/1520 (Apple uses a Sony camera and has ex-Nokia pureview employees working for them though...so it's almost like cheating). And Samsung's S5 is also producing some really nice photos.

As an owner of a Z3 I can tell you I'm not complaining about the camera. It's not perfect but it's no dud either. It smokes my L920 completely, especially in low light and difficult lighting situations. I hear the Note 4 camera is pretty impressive too.

I like your reference to cheating.

The 808/1020 have yet to be beaten. But the rest of the PureView line has already been matched when not surpassed. Which was to be expected since heavy imaging development slowed drastically down upon the announcement of the Nokia/Microsoft deal. It's now up to Microsoft to decide whether imaging is an area worth the investment or not and to try and get ahead again.
Nokia has restarted the R&D of imaging solutions but for Microsoft it's no longer very useful as Nokia is developing the imaging solutions for Android, not WP.

When it comes to smartphones there will always be a fine line between of what dictates what people want. Majority of people want a quick shot camera that takes nice photos good enough for printing. That's it. It's simply to replace the compact camera. So 13MP in a slim phone will win out if the quality is there as I know it's not all about MP. So that's why things like the 1020 or it's successor isn't going to woo people. The majority want a nice looking smartphone first with all the goodies that come with that and a good camera second.

That's why a 1020 successor should not be the first phone that comes out for W10. We need a good high, mid and low end range. That's it. Niche devices can wait.

 

[N_LaRUE]

The detachable lens idea sounds cool. What about phone cases with different lenses ? Or, what about a phone with no bulge, but just a thicker phone with a flush lens surface ? We'll have to wait and see. I just think a certain spec processor (maybe an 8xx, maybe something faster), 1080p (definitely more than enough right now), a 5" screen ( a compromise between a phablet and small phone), and a high pixel camera (maybe not 50mp) will become the 'norm' because it checks all the boxes and de-thrones the 1020. The 930 fits the bill right now. It won't be long when this type of phone is just run of the mill.

Many people don't like thick or weighty phones these days so I don't see that being a popular idea. People thought the L920 was too big and heavy.

I think cases with lens is not a good idea. I was thinking more along the lines of either snapping on a different lens similar to a DSLR or attaching over the existing lens to give extra capabilities. Would be easy to accomplish and if it was a product you wanted to keep producing you keep the lens attachment the same like a DSLR so people can keep using the lenses they buy.

I see 20MP-ish being the top for most phones. Anything larger and you need extra space. As for dethroning the 1020, does it need to be? The camera is fine. Tweak the software and fix the speed by whatever method and that's all you need. That will satisfy most people.

 

[tgp]

We keep hearing 'around May' for W10 for a release date. I've read it several times on this site which seems to have a pretty good insight into these things.

Other places indicate 'mid 2015'. Mid typically means May, June or July. So take it from there.

If they're not planning on having any phones available immediately that's up to them but I think it's a mistake.

Microsoft normally releases new Windows versions in October of the release year. Is there any reason to think it will be different this time, at least for the PC version?

 

[N_LaRUE]

Microsoft normally releases new Windows versions in October of the release year. Is there any reason to think it will be different this time, at least for the PC version?

Don't know. I keep hearing mid 2015. Whatever that means for W10.

As for phones, we don't know their track records as they never released phones before. Nokia did.

 

[RumoredNow]

As for phones, we don't know their track records as they never released phones before. Nokia did.

Good point. So far Microsoft has broken the pattern by releasing a slew of models over a longer period than traditional, after trade and industry event time frames. They have really drawn it out by an appreciable amount.

I have a feeling they were "blowing out" the Nokia stuff on the drawing board and wiping the slate clean.

Will they continue to vary their release times? We shall see.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Good point. So far Microsoft has broken the pattern by releasing a slew of models over a longer period than traditional, after trade and industry event time frames. They have really drawn it out by an appreciable amount.

I have a feeling they were "blowing out" the Nokia stuff on the drawing board and wiping the slate clean.

Will they continue to vary their release times? We shall see.

That's been my thought. I think all these recent models have been left overs from Nokia. We'll start fresh with W10 and I do hope it is completely fresh.

 

[rollindice]

I don't see why so many people are so eager to get rushed products? I rather have a consistent speed of high-quality phones to choose from than go the Android-way.

You my friend took the words out of my comment, precisely.

 

[tgp]

I don't see why so many people are so eager to get rushed products? I rather have a consistent speed of high-quality phones to choose from than go the Android-way.

Personal preferences aside, "a consistent speed of high-quality phones to choose from" IS the "Android-way."

 

[N_LaRUE]

I don't see why so many people are so eager to get rushed products? I rather have a consistent speed of high-quality phones to choose from than go the Android-way.

If you could point out what 'rushed' products you're referring to and provide proof they're 'rushed' I'd agree with you.

I really dislike this 'holier than thou' attitude that people have about Nokia hardware. The Lumia 920, 820, 520, 620, 720, 925 and 1020 (and their variants) were all released in less than a year. Were these 'rushed' products as well?

 

[ShinraCorp]

Honestly the way I see Microsoft's release of phones is kind of like the video game industry. You get a whole lot of great games at Q4 (Between October to December) of the year and sometimes in Q1(January to March) but during the summer there's a "drought" of AAA games. Same thing with phones, at Q4 that's where the majority of phones come out. Microsoft however seems to try and fill the "drought" of Q2 and Q3 with low end phones.

Well that's the way I see it anyway so I could be completely wrong on that.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Honestly the way I see Microsoft's release of phones is kind of like the video game industry. You get a whole lot of great games at Q4 (Between October to December) of the year and sometimes in Q1(January to March) but during the summer there's a "drought" of AAA games. Same thing with phones, at Q4 that's where the majority of phones come out. Microsoft however seems to try and fill the "drought" of Q2 and Q3 with low end phones.

Well that's the way I see it anyway so I could be completely wrong on that.

Considering MS has only released two phones it's hard to know what their cycle is going to be or how they're going to do it. All the rest has been Nokia, doing what Nokia typically did.

 

[Kobinas Nakas]

1020 never was a king. 808 is far superior in terms of raw photo quality, minus apps

 

[DJCBS]

Nokia's first run with cameras was with the N8 and let's face it, though great, that bulge was a tad annoying.

Actually Nokia was the first company to put a camera on a phone. For some time Nokia was even the largest supplier of cameras on the market.

The majority want a nice looking smartphone first with all the goodies that come with that and a good camera second.

Agree. And that's the problem here: the Lumia line no longer offers anything special over the other brands. The only thing that the Lumia line has over the other imaging smartphones is the 1020. Which, as you correctly pointed out, is a niche device.

 

[TechFreak1]

The 1020 was dethroned the moment it was EOL'd and then later buried inside the throne room by the confirmation Denim will bring nothing new to the phone. Which is a shame, one of my relatives has decided to take photography professionally and the 1020 would have been the ideal companion device. But right now it won't cut the mustard especially since he has become accustomed to the LG G3's quick auto focus, probably could have sold him on the 930 but that doesn't have denim yet.

 

[walterg1]

I'm really exited about the Panasonic CM1, if I could afford one I would buy one.
Why?
A 1" sensor in a smartphone.
I'm pretty sure they are using the Sony sensor from the RX100.

What excites me is full manual controls.
Yes it even has manual focus, and if the released specs are correct you can change the aperture.

The biggest negative I can think of is with current battery technology, their is no way to get really good battery life out of a phone like this.
Im not sure if anyone makes good enough software to take advantage of the camera, either.
Not for in camera raw editing.

I think Microsoft really needs to make a 1030.
Too many people are waiting for an upgrade for their 1020.
Now with Panasonic making the CM1, I think it becomes mandatory.

 

[Loco5150]

That's because that's where all the money is.

As stated above, there is no money in the low end. The users MS can get seem to be there. No success on the high end for WP, yet at least.

 

[Nabkawe5]

I'm using both the OPO and the Sony Z2, I can honestly say the Windows Phone OS is a camera user OS, nothing is better than Windows Phone when it comes to flexibility specially in terms of Gallery, live images, the ability for 3rd and 1st party apps to create pictures you can manipulate later, and even though video editing is relatively new, I've never seen a better straight forward video editor than Movie Maker in the market place.

 

[duvik7]

Guys what do we already know about the Lumia 1030? Wondering about the release date.

 

[secher]

Guys what do we already know about the Lumia 1030? Wondering about the release date.

We basicly know nothing. No release date, no specs, no nothing...
A while back some pictures of a prototype (The cancelled McClaren) that looked like a 1020 successor.

Hopefully we will see something on january 21st... An announcement would be awesome, otherwise they will probably announce some phones at MWC in march...

Hopefully what we will see is a flagship specced phone with an awesome camera and Windows 10 for phones...