01-12-2015 04:06 AM
39 12
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  1. secher's Avatar
    Panasonic Lumix CM1 (1" censor!)
    Asus Zenphone Zoom (3x optical zoom in a completely flat housing)
    More to come at CES?

    The other manufacturers are putting out serious camera phones, and these might be able to knock off the Lumia 1020 off the throne... Will this make Microsoft put a rush on the 1020's successor? It should!!

    PureView is a strong selling point for Windows Phones, and they need to stay ahead! The two phones I mentioned above are could get the ones waiting for the Lumia 1020 successor to jump the WP ship.

    Announcing Lumia 1030 or 1040 or whatever might make them stay...
    01-06-2015 06:33 AM
  2. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    There won't be any phones before the release of W10 in May. So I wouldn't hold my breath. If they release a niche phone over a proper flagship that would be a big mistake. Sure those phones are nice but they're still niche. The Zenphone is not available everywhere either, unless that changes.

    Cameras have been the biggest developments in Smartphones in recent times. It was only a matter of time before we started to see more competition for camera tech.

    Give it time and I wouldn't doubt you'll see Canon and Nikon sensors on phones. Sony is also developing some new sensors for their phones as well.

    I think competition is great. It's up to MS to sort out what it wants to do though. They seem quite happy in their low end spectrum.
    01-06-2015 07:19 AM
  3. mjrtoo's Avatar
    There won't be any phones before the release of W10 in May. So I wouldn't hold my breath. If they release a niche phone over a proper flagship that would be a big mistake. Sure those phones are nice but they're still niche. The Zenphone is not available everywhere either, unless that changes.

    Cameras have been the biggest developments in Smartphones in recent times. It was only a matter of time before we started to see more competition for camera tech.

    Give it time and I wouldn't doubt you'll see Canon and Nikon sensors on phones. Sony is also developing some new sensors for their phones as well.

    I think competition is great. It's up to MS to sort out what it wants to do though. They seem quite happy in their low end spectrum.
    That's because that's where all the money is.
    01-06-2015 07:27 AM
  4. JP8296's Avatar
    One Lumia device with Canon sensor...now that's a great combo
    01-06-2015 07:27 AM
  5. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    That's because that's where all the money is.
    If you're referring to my comment about low end, you would be incorrect. They're trying to build numbers over making money. Not that the strategy is working well. To suggest otherwise is to not understand profits margins.

    Then again, they do overprice their products ridiculously...
    a5cent and Loco5150 like this.
    01-06-2015 07:32 AM
  6. EBUK's Avatar
    the release of W10 in May
    May is spring time. I thought we had to wait until Autumn!
    01-06-2015 08:26 AM
  7. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    May is spring time. I thought we had to wait until Autumn!
    Depends where you're from. :P I prefer to go with months over seasons. :)

    I'm hoping, and that's the word, hope, that they have phones ready for release with the announcement. Otherwise we will be looking towards September/October/November for the next release.

    Anyway, that's the current rumour.
    a5cent likes this.
    01-06-2015 08:30 AM
  8. mayblast's Avatar
    As it is fairly obvious by now, Microsoft does not give a **** about cameras, sales, reputation, growth, etc. in phones market.

    I've been desperately waiting for some news of a modern WP with a proper camera, but in guaranteed Microsoft tradition they are unable to think from consumers' point.

    I don't trust this Panasonic cameraphone but it just might be thing to accompany my DSLR when I next time hit the road. Apparently MS does not want me to promote their products (as they're unable to create one).
    Tom Snyder and duvik7 like this.
    01-06-2015 08:59 AM
  9. secher's Avatar
    That's because that's where all the money is.
    Not in the long run... The low end users aren't "advertising" to friends like the powerusers with the flagships.
    They are the ones pushing sales to the people that don't really know any better when it comes to smartphones.
    I don't have a number on how many people I have convinced to buy a low/medium end WP phones, by demonstrating WP on my Lumia 1020... But it is getting old, and doesn't have the "flair" of a flagship phone anymore...
    01-06-2015 08:59 AM
  10. grantpwarren's Avatar
    As it is fairly obvious by now, Microsoft does not give a **** about cameras, sales, reputation, growth, etc. in phones market.

    I've been desperately waiting for some news of a modern WP with a proper camera, but in guaranteed Microsoft tradition they are unable to think from consumers' point.
    This might be part of their plan till the release of WP10.
    01-06-2015 09:13 AM
  11. MicrosoftMobile4me's Avatar
    Microsoft will make a phone that de-thrones the 1020 and other manufacturers will too. I see a sweet spot in phones kinda like the 15.6" laptop. I believe a 5" phone with a 50 mp camera, 1080p, and 8xx processor will be coming soon. That will be much better than the 1020. Not only that, I believe that phone will become the "norm". There's some kind of law of diminishing returns and once you achieve the sweet spot, everything else is just "bragging rights" I can't wait for that day, and I have a feeling I'll be holding on to that phone for quite awhile.
    01-06-2015 09:26 AM
  12. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Microsoft will make a phone that de-thrones the 1020 and other manufacturers will too. I see a sweet spot in phones kinda like the 15.6" laptop. I believe a 5" phone with a 50 mp camera, 1080p, and 8xx processor will be coming soon. That will be much better than the 1020. Not only that, I believe that phone will become the "norm". There's some kind of law of diminishing returns and once you achieve the sweet spot, everything else is just "bragging rights" I can't wait for that day, and I have a feeling I'll be holding on to that phone for quite awhile.
    I don't think many people want a bulging camera on the back of their phone so I don't see it being the 'norm' as you put it. Most people are happy with a 'good enough' camera on their phone. Going with your philosophy everyone should be running around with DSLR cameras.

    Sure technology will advance and things may get smaller but optics are optics. You can only do so much with that.

    To me the neat option would be detachable lens to give a better quality of shot along with a good sensor while maintaining a good form factor. That would be a sweet spot to me.

    See everyone is different.
    01-06-2015 09:53 AM
  13. MicrosoftMobile4me's Avatar
    The detachable lens idea sounds cool. What about phone cases with different lenses ? Or, what about a phone with no bulge, but just a thicker phone with a flush lens surface ? We'll have to wait and see. I just think a certain spec processor (maybe an 8xx, maybe something faster), 1080p (definitely more than enough right now), a 5" screen ( a compromise between a phablet and small phone), and a high pixel camera (maybe not 50mp) will become the 'norm' because it checks all the boxes and de-thrones the 1020. The 930 fits the bill right now. It won't be long when this type of phone is just run of the mill.
    01-06-2015 11:14 AM
  14. Giddora's Avatar
    I don't see why so many people are so eager to get rushed products? I rather have a consistent speed of high-quality phones to choose from than go the Android-way.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    01-06-2015 01:11 PM
  15. theefman's Avatar
    Asus Zenphone Zoom (3x optical zoom in a completely flat housing)

    The other manufacturers are putting out serious camera phones, and these might be able to knock off the Lumia 1020 off the throne... Will this make Microsoft put a rush on the 1020's successor? It should!!

    PureView is a strong selling point for Windows Phones, and they need to stay ahead! The two phones I mentioned above are could get the ones waiting for the Lumia 1020 successor to jump the WP ship.

    Announcing Lumia 1030 or 1040 or whatever might make them stay...
    Not sure what the panic is about, all they announced was optical zoom, nothing about the sensor size which is the most important element. Apart from speed I'd bet the 1020 would still take better pictures. Stop falling for flashy specs.
    RumoredNow and Cameron Todd like this.
    01-06-2015 01:25 PM
  16. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    There won't be any phones before the release of W10 in May.
    Sorry, when was it announced that Windows 10 would be released in May? From what I recall, it's expected on phones in the second-half of the year, with an April announcement for the whole line and a likely fall release (as usual) for x86 and non-phone ARM stuff.
    01-06-2015 06:00 PM
  17. xfatalx zero's Avatar
    I have an HTC One M8 for Windows and it sucks I will never buy another WP unless its a Lumia, only to say that because I bought the Lumia 1020 as a camera for now until I can pay off the M8 or sell it. I just got the 1020 and will have a case that will make the lens more flush but every time I hold it and feel the lens I say don't gripe because you spent $350 for a camera that is just as valuable as a $1000 camera the thing is that you have the convenience of the WP OS and many availed ways to share the work that you create.
    Tom Snyder likes this.
    01-06-2015 06:18 PM
  18. DJCBS's Avatar
    The Lumix is mainly a camera that happens to run Android. Almost in the same vein as the Galaxy K Zoom.
    The new Asus one remains to be seen...but Asus doesn't have a big tradition in cameras. Also the camera sports a 13mp shooter, which means even with the zoom, it may not produce images as good as the 1020. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

    Currently the Nokia 808 and 1020 remain pretty much undisputed on the smartphone camera market. However it won't take long for Sony, Apple and Samsung to put out something that might end up beating it. Sony's Z3 cameras already match the 930/1520 (and beat them in low light). Apple's iCrap 6 produces stunning 8mp images that match when not beat the ones from the 930/1520 (Apple uses a Sony camera and has ex-Nokia pureview employees working for them though...so it's almost like cheating). And Samsung's S5 is also producing some really nice photos.

    The 808/1020 have yet to be beaten. But the rest of the PureView line has already been matched when not surpassed. Which was to be expected since heavy imaging development slowed drastically down upon the announcement of the Nokia/Microsoft deal. It's now up to Microsoft to decide whether imaging is an area worth the investment or not and to try and get ahead again.
    Nokia has restarted the R&D of imaging solutions but for Microsoft it's no longer very useful as Nokia is developing the imaging solutions for Android, not WP.
    N_LaRUE and Gautam Kabiraj like this.
    01-06-2015 07:25 PM
  19. Tom Snyder's Avatar
    I bought a 920 about a few months ahead of the 1020 release, and I always thought if only I had waited.

    But the main reason I bought and was drawn too the 920 was the camera, and the ability to browse the internet and use my phone as a wireless hotspot.

    If all I want is a phone there are hundreds of $10 phones which will work. My 920 works great and the only reason I would replace it would be for a better low light and faster camera. It does not seem that MicroSoft is coming out with anything which will be vastly better than the current lineup. Only thing I would consider now is a 1520.
    Blake Seaman likes this.
    01-06-2015 08:16 PM
  20. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Sorry, when was it announced that Windows 10 would be released in May? From what I recall, it's expected on phones in the second-half of the year, with an April announcement for the whole line and a likely fall release (as usual) for x86 and non-phone ARM stuff.
    We keep hearing 'around May' for W10 for a release date. I've read it several times on this site which seems to have a pretty good insight into these things.

    Other places indicate 'mid 2015'. Mid typically means May, June or July. So take it from there.

    If they're not planning on having any phones available immediately that's up to them but I think it's a mistake.
    01-07-2015 02:24 AM
  21. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    The Lumix is mainly a camera that happens to run Android. Almost in the same vein as the Galaxy K Zoom.
    The new Asus one remains to be seen...but Asus doesn't have a big tradition in cameras. Also the camera sports a 13mp shooter, which means even with the zoom, it may not produce images as good as the 1020. We'll have to wait and see on that one.
    I agree about the Lumix. It's a niche device, not really a phone, kind of ugly too. The Asus device is rather nice looking. As for tradition in cameras, you could technically say that about any OEM aside from Sony and Samsung. This is all reactively new tech. Nokia's first run with cameras was with the N8 and let's face it, though great, that bulge was a tad annoying.

    The difference with the Asus one is that it's optical zoom vs digital zoom. Whether that matters is always a question. Does 3X optical zoom match the 1020? I don't know, from the pics I've seen done on the 1020 they're practically DSLR quality when done right.

    Currently the Nokia 808 and 1020 remain pretty much undisputed on the smartphone camera market. However it won't take long for Sony, Apple and Samsung to put out something that might end up beating it. Sony's Z3 cameras already match the 930/1520 (and beat them in low light). Apple's iCrap 6 produces stunning 8mp images that match when not beat the ones from the 930/1520 (Apple uses a Sony camera and has ex-Nokia pureview employees working for them though...so it's almost like cheating). And Samsung's S5 is also producing some really nice photos.
    As an owner of a Z3 I can tell you I'm not complaining about the camera. It's not perfect but it's no dud either. It smokes my L920 completely, especially in low light and difficult lighting situations. I hear the Note 4 camera is pretty impressive too.

    I like your reference to cheating. :P

    The 808/1020 have yet to be beaten. But the rest of the PureView line has already been matched when not surpassed. Which was to be expected since heavy imaging development slowed drastically down upon the announcement of the Nokia/Microsoft deal. It's now up to Microsoft to decide whether imaging is an area worth the investment or not and to try and get ahead again.
    Nokia has restarted the R&D of imaging solutions but for Microsoft it's no longer very useful as Nokia is developing the imaging solutions for Android, not WP.
    When it comes to smartphones there will always be a fine line between of what dictates what people want. Majority of people want a quick shot camera that takes nice photos good enough for printing. That's it. It's simply to replace the compact camera. So 13MP in a slim phone will win out if the quality is there as I know it's not all about MP. So that's why things like the 1020 or it's successor isn't going to woo people. The majority want a nice looking smartphone first with all the goodies that come with that and a good camera second.

    That's why a 1020 successor should not be the first phone that comes out for W10. We need a good high, mid and low end range. That's it. Niche devices can wait.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 01-07-2015 at 07:47 AM.
    tgp and RumoredNow like this.
    01-07-2015 04:36 AM
  22. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    The detachable lens idea sounds cool. What about phone cases with different lenses ? Or, what about a phone with no bulge, but just a thicker phone with a flush lens surface ? We'll have to wait and see. I just think a certain spec processor (maybe an 8xx, maybe something faster), 1080p (definitely more than enough right now), a 5" screen ( a compromise between a phablet and small phone), and a high pixel camera (maybe not 50mp) will become the 'norm' because it checks all the boxes and de-thrones the 1020. The 930 fits the bill right now. It won't be long when this type of phone is just run of the mill.
    Many people don't like thick or weighty phones these days so I don't see that being a popular idea. People thought the L920 was too big and heavy.

    I think cases with lens is not a good idea. I was thinking more along the lines of either snapping on a different lens similar to a DSLR or attaching over the existing lens to give extra capabilities. Would be easy to accomplish and if it was a product you wanted to keep producing you keep the lens attachment the same like a DSLR so people can keep using the lenses they buy.

    I see 20MP-ish being the top for most phones. Anything larger and you need extra space. As for dethroning the 1020, does it need to be? The camera is fine. Tweak the software and fix the speed by whatever method and that's all you need. That will satisfy most people.
    01-07-2015 06:38 AM
  23. tgp's Avatar
    We keep hearing 'around May' for W10 for a release date. I've read it several times on this site which seems to have a pretty good insight into these things.

    Other places indicate 'mid 2015'. Mid typically means May, June or July. So take it from there.

    If they're not planning on having any phones available immediately that's up to them but I think it's a mistake.
    Microsoft normally releases new Windows versions in October of the release year. Is there any reason to think it will be different this time, at least for the PC version?
    01-07-2015 07:27 AM
  24. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Microsoft normally releases new Windows versions in October of the release year. Is there any reason to think it will be different this time, at least for the PC version?
    Don't know. I keep hearing mid 2015. Whatever that means for W10.

    As for phones, we don't know their track records as they never released phones before. Nokia did.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    01-07-2015 07:50 AM
  25. RumoredNow's Avatar
    As for phones, we don't know their track records as they never released phones before. Nokia did.
    Good point. So far Microsoft has broken the pattern by releasing a slew of models over a longer period than traditional, after trade and industry event time frames. They have really drawn it out by an appreciable amount.

    I have a feeling they were "blowing out" the Nokia stuff on the drawing board and wiping the slate clean.

    Will they continue to vary their release times? We shall see.
    N_LaRUE and Blackadder_100 like this.
    01-07-2015 08:01 AM
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