Can the "flagship" live up to expectations?

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Google/Motorola made the Nexus 6 work on all the US carriers, and even got the big 4 to simultaneously sell it as well. If Google can do it for a phone most normal people have never heard of, then I don't see why Microsoft can't do it as well.

The reason Microsoft makes these exclusive deals is because the carrier pays for advertising and promotions. When the Nexus 6 hit the stores, it was basically a silent release, no big signs, no special placement, nothing.

But much like Nexus devices, people who buy Windows Phones usually know what they want when they're walking through the door, they're there to get that specific phone, and a big marketing campaign is basically wasted on people like them. Microsoft needs to drop the carrier exclusives, put the phone on all carriers, and promote the device themselves. I bet you anything they don't though. Verizon or AT&T will get it, and it'll be exclusive.
 

LumiaWorld

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I'm really hoping that the upcoming Lumia flagship has a KILLER design...

Samsung, Apple and HTC lately have gorgeous flagships... It's really a stiff competition when it comes to the high end market that's why Microsoft must give everything that they can give when it comes to design.
 

LumiaWorld

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Oh, and one more thing... I hope the next Lumia flagship is made out of metal...

Obviously metal is a trend nowadays on flagship phones... And Microsoft must go with that trend
 

a5cent

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Re: Can the "flagship" live up to expectations?

The reason Microsoft makes these exclusive deals is because the carrier pays for advertising and promotions.

Promotions were certainly part of it too, but I'm told the subsidy was the bigger issue.

Nokia had to earn money and please shareholders. MS isn't in the same boat as Nokia. Neither was Google/Motorola. Both are/were fine with just breaking even. I wouldn't be surprised by a strategy shift by the time W10 comes around, where we'll see higher priced / unsubsidized WP flagships on all carriers.
 

N_LaRUE

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Google/Motorola made the Nexus 6 work on all the US carriers, and even got the big 4 to simultaneously sell it as well. If Google can do it for a phone most normal people have never heard of, then I don't see why Microsoft can't do it as well.

There's a big difference between Google and MS in the mobile market, that's probably why they could get in the stores. Also Google always sells their devices first.
 

N_LaRUE

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Re: Can the "flagship" live up to expectations?

The exclusive thing hurts sales here in the UK as well. Especially since they keep going back to EE all the damn time. :/

The 640 and 640XL are a good example of this.

I for one am loath to buy a phone tied to a carrier ever again and EE is one I will never go near again.
 

N_LaRUE

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Re: Can the "flagship" live up to expectations?

It would be nice to see a waterproof flagship and the phone being around 5".

Since I have moved (sort of) to Android I won't be going back to WP right away. I'll see what happens.

If they bring out a stylish phone (similar to my Z3) and plan to keep repeating that trend then I'll be back for sure so long as the apps come and the cross platform is more than a gimmick.
 

Keith Wallace

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Some of us simply don't have high expectations. If a Microsoft flagship can't meet your expectations, then you're not paying attention to what Microsoft has done since they took over device manufacturing. They've never released a device with a chip better than the Snapdragon 400. That was even the core of the "affordable flagship" 830, which was just a sly way for calling a mid-range phone something better than what it was. Even the last "flagship" from Nokia was an underwhelming handset, given the AMOLED display (loss of Glance) and ho-hum SoC choice (there were higher-clocked options, but Nokia went with the low-end option, maybe due to Samsung/HTC demand?). It's not been since the 920 that a true, mainstream flagship was put out, so I don't know how anyone could have expectations so high that Microsoft couldn't meet them.

At this point, all I want from a Microsoft flagship is this:

Display: 4.5-5.0" IPS display, 1080p resolution
SoC: Qualcomm Snapdragon 810
Storage: 16 GB + microSD or 32 GB sans-microSD
Rear Camera: 10 MP + OIS
Battery: 2200+ mAh
Extras: Wireless charging, multiple color choices (preferably orange, green, or a non-cyan blue)

Basically, I just want the bare minimum for a modern flagship. I don't care about a FFC (I've never once used mine). I don't care if the chassis is unibody, or if it has a removable back. I don't care if it's metal or polycarbonate. I don't care if it's got hard corners (like the 930/Icon) or more-smoothed ones (like the 920). I don't have major requirements for the camera, just that it surpasses the 920's 8.7 MP + OIS setup. Compare this to what I'd ideally want:

Display: 5.0" IPS display, 1080p resolution
SoC: Qualcomm Snapdragon 810
Storage: 32 GB + microSD or 64 GB sans-microSD
Rear Camera: 20 MP + OIS
Battery: 2500+ mAh
Extras: Wireless charging + free wireless charger, USB 3.0, SensorCore, MotoMaker-like option (build your own device appearances), McLaren gestures/functionality

I really don't need that much. I WANT a lot, but Microsoft's not even brought a ball to the table for it to drop of late. I just need a high-end SoC and obvious spec bumps from the 920.
 

jlzimmerman

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No WP is going to sell close to an iOS or Android flagship, or remotely better than a previous WP flagship, if items below are not addressed, regardless of how well spec'd the phone is:

  • Carrier exclusivity - End it.
  • Tech Site Perception and fairness toward Microsoft and/or Windows ? We know just how much some sites love to hate MS. Even if they don?t mean it, it generates clicks and ends up spreading bad press in the process.
  • Salesperson Bias ? Being smartphone owners themselves, most have a personal allegiance toward their ?religion? and it shows. Go in to a carrier store and ask about Windows phone and count how many seconds it takes for them to sway you toward iOS or Android.
  • Microsoft Marketing ? For the love of God I hope they actually do something good with the release of Windows 10. Enough with the Siri bashing and expand on how the OS and phone will work well in the everyday lives of owners. Show a collage of all the sh** load of apps and games that it does have.
 

rhapdog

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They've never released a device with a chip better than the Snapdragon 400.

That's because they haven't released a flagship, PERIOD.

Flagship is coming with Windows 10. Yes, it will be worth it and will set the tech world talking.

Hey, the tech world is all abuzz talking about the 640, and it's a midrange that has exceeded all expectations. Just wait until we see the true flagship.

Yeah, Microsoft needs to stop the carrier exclusivity. It goes against everything they advertise with the 'One Experience' they keep touting. I want 'One Experience' across carriers, too.

All in all, conjecture is fine. But we'll have to wait and see.
 

MikeX74

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I think you nailed it on all fronts. In regards to carrier exclusivity, I think that Microsoft shouldn't even deal with the carriers. They just need to make their next flagship work with all carriers. If the carrier chooses not to carry it, Microsoft will be able to sell it off contract at their stores. This way anyone can get it. Microsoft has enough money to market it themselves without any help from the carriers. If Microsoft's next flagship is exclusive to AT&T or Verizon I'm gonna be pissed. It might just make me switch to Android. Which is something I really don't want to do.

You mention the money that Microsoft has at its disposal and the wish that they advertise without aid of carriers, but here's a question. If money isn't an issue, why haven't they used that money to advertise already? When was the last time they aired any sort of ad, or rented a billboard? How or why would Microsoft expect anyone to care about their products when they don't even bother to advertise them?
 

MikeX74

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No WP is going to sell close to an iOS or Android flagship, or remotely better than a previous WP flagship, if items below are not addressed, regardless of how well spec'd the phone is:

  • Carrier exclusivity - End it.
  • Tech Site Perception and fairness toward Microsoft and/or Windows – We know just how much some sites love to hate MS. Even if they don’t mean it, it generates clicks and ends up spreading bad press in the process.
  • Salesperson Bias – Being smartphone owners themselves, most have a personal allegiance toward their “religion” and it shows. Go in to a carrier store and ask about Windows phone and count how many seconds it takes for them to sway you toward iOS or Android.
  • Microsoft Marketing – For the love of God I hope they actually do something good with the release of Windows 10. Enough with the Siri bashing and expand on how the OS and phone will work well in the everyday lives of owners. Show a collage of all the sh** load of apps and games that it does have.

1. Exclusives are probably the only way that MS could get the carriers to sell them. This is where I see a chicken/egg problem. Without stellar sales, MS can't go to carriers and dictate that they carry one "flagship-level" device(like Apple and Samsung can), but without that relationship to carriers, they can't get stellar sales. I would think that carriers want a third player to offset the Apple/Samsung duopoly that exists today. I'm not sure why MS doesn't go to them with the Holy Grail of WP devices and say, "You want a product you can REALLY push to put those other guys in their place? Well, here it is. The question is, does MS have it in them to try.

2. Personally, I think the "media bias" excuse is just that--an excuse. Microsoft has to give news sites/blogs a reason to be excited about their products. They got a lot of positive feedback from a lot of sites for their HoloLens and Surface Hub.

3. Ok. I can't say much to argue against this one. We all have our "allegiances" when it comes to pretty much anything these days. The trick(once carrier support comes) would be to train employees to show/tell the benefits of WP devices. Not necessarily to say that iPhones or Android devices suck, but tell potential customers what WP devices can do.

4. Agreed, and maybe the easiest thing for MS to fix. Microsoft has billions of dollars at their disposal, so why aren't they marketing the heck out of these devices? And once they do decide to advertise more often, what is the message? This is where they need(IMO) to take a page from Apple. Say what you want about them, but they make ads with a simple message:

a. Here's our device
b. This is what it can do.
c. This is what you can do with it.
Why do you think they promote creation apps on their site? Why do you think the "Shot on iPhone 6" campaign exists? Their focus is on their products(and no one else's).

Microsoft's marketing strategy for most, if not all of their recent ads has been, "Apple products suck. Buy our stuff instead." That strategy may get them short-term buzz, but they don't tell a wider story about the products they're trying to sell. What's more, they also position the Apple product as the standard they're trying to reach or surpass. Before anyone brings it up, I'm well aware of the "Get a Mac"campaign, and yes, I'm aware that attack ads worked for Samsung(for a while), but even their strategy changed.
 

MarkusDindu

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Apple's new "Shot with iPhone 6" campaign is genius, and they are just getting it started. Considering the excellent camera's on Lumia flagships, it should be Microsoft doing these advertisements. Show actual photos photos taken by users, put them in tv commercials and on Microsoft's website.
 

Blacklac

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Apple's new "Shot with iPhone 6" campaign is genius, and they are just getting it started. Considering the excellent camera's on Lumia flagships, it should be Microsoft doing these advertisements. Show actual photos photos taken by users, put them in tv commercials and on Microsoft's website.

They do this on Instagram. It would be wise to expand it to a wider audience.
 

tgp

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I would think that carriers want a third player to offset the Apple/Samsung duopoly that exists today. I'm not sure why MS doesn't go to them with the Holy Grail of WP devices and say, "You want a product you can REALLY push to put those other guys in their place? Well, here it is.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but not this. Why would the carriers care about the Apple/Samsung duopoly? The devices of both manufacturers sell like crazy. In fact, the carriers could probably survive on those 2 alone.

And I know that WP is the preferred platform here and is mostly regarded as superior, but the real world doesn't see it that way. The app gap, for one, is very real. WP is not ready to take the place of iPhone & Android to the general public. A few specific users, sure. But it's not yet suitable for mainstream, not after we're all used to the quality and capabilities of iPhone and high end Android.
 

slysy

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My expectations are pretty low personally, so I hope the device can live up to them:

SD card support (or choice of storage with 128gb option available)
Choice of screen size (5inch or 5.5/6 inch) - I'm hopeful as they have done this with the 640 and 640XL
Wireless Charging
High-end processor
Pureview camera with dedicated camera button
Glance screen support
Choice of colours
2gb ram or more
FFC 5mp or higher
No widespread annoying hardware issues ( phantom touches, dust in FFC etc)
 

Gabriel Olaru

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No WP is going to sell close to an iOS or Android flagship, or remotely better than a previous WP flagship, if items below are not addressed, regardless of how well spec'd the phone is:

  • Carrier exclusivity - End it.
  • Tech Site Perception and fairness toward Microsoft and/or Windows – We know just how much some sites love to hate MS. Even if they don’t mean it, it generates clicks and ends up spreading bad press in the process.
  • Salesperson Bias – Being smartphone owners themselves, most have a personal allegiance toward their “religion” and it shows. Go in to a carrier store and ask about Windows phone and count how many seconds it takes for them to sway you toward iOS or Android.
  • Microsoft Marketing – For the love of God I hope they actually do something good with the release of Windows 10. Enough with the Siri bashing and expand on how the OS and phone will work well in the everyday lives of owners. Show a collage of all the sh** load of apps and games that it does have.

All this happened with iphone when they launched it. It was carrier exclusive, people in stores didn't recomend it. People are afraid of new. For 80% of the people new is bad and they are afraid to test it. Also people in stores recive a small amount of money if they sell for ex an expensive Samsung. Give a salesman a free lumia 830 and i bet he will start to recomend it to the people based on his experience :)
 

rhapdog

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My expectations are pretty low personally, so I hope the device can live up to them:

SD card support (or choice of storage with 128gb option available)
Choice of screen size (5inch or 5.5/6 inch) - I'm hopeful as they have done this with the 640 and 640XL
Wireless Charging
High-end processor
Pureview camera with dedicated camera button
Glance screen support
Choice of colours
2gb ram or more
FFC 5mp or higher
No widespread annoying hardware issues ( phantom touches, dust in FFC etc)

I must say, I like your expectations. Water and dust resistant would be nice, but only if the battery remains user replaceable. If it doesn't have a user replaceable battery, then I won't even look at the rest of the specs. That's a deal breaker for me.

All this happened with iphone when they launched it. It was carrier exclusive, people in stores didn't recomend it. People are afraid of new. For 80% of the people new is bad and they are afraid to test it. Also people in stores recive a small amount of money if they sell for ex an expensive Samsung. Give a salesman a free lumia 830 and i bet he will start to recomend it to the people based on his experience :)

All the sales people at the local Corporate AT&T stores in my area, at least the ones in my city and the cities in the 9 counties around me, have been issued Lumia 830 phones as of 3 months ago, and they are actually quite helpful to people who come in and have steered quite a few people to Windows Phone because of it. If Microsoft really wants to make a solid investment that would produce some return, then give away a new 640 XL to all the store reps for AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, and T-Mobile with the provision they must use it as their daily driver for a minimum of 6 months to receive it free. I'll bet a lot would go for it and WP would probably start getting more recommendations.

Here's another idea MS should try. Since we know a lot of people use their smartphone for their exclusive online use simply because they can't afford both a flagship and a computer or flagship and tablet, then giving a discount bundle to something like a Lumia 640 with a 10-11 inch lower end tablet would be great for those wanting to still do their banking apps within a browser. Then Microsoft wouldn't have to worry so much about banking apps. If bundled through a carrier, many people could afford to get it on contract that might not otherwise be able to do so.

Perhaps some people don't want 2 devices, but I'm willing to bet a lot of them do, yet choose not to because of economics.
 

RaRa85

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You really touched on all my points with this thread and I wrote a similar one right before I left WP to test out Android with the launch of the Xperia Z3 on T-Mobile. At this point I feel like the next flagship has to be a 1020 successor available on all carriers in a slimmed down as possible body. Actually if they could combine the imaging power of the 1020 with the sexiness of the 925 with a 5", 1080p(cause 2k screens are still overrated on phone screens IMO) screen that would be a match made in heaven. I believe the next flagship NEEDS to be 41 megapixels because it instantly puts the phone ahead of the competition. 20mp sensors are just fine but it's been done and is being done. Microsoft needs that same 1020 magic powered by the next gen processor that will rival the speed and auto photo taking capabilities of the iPhone 6 and Note 4/S6. That will absolutely kill every argument the doubters can bring against Lumia phones. Lumia Camera's software already offers more fine tuned control and manual fun over anything that Apple or Android can currently do. So they have an advantage there. But the algorithms have to be improved and tweaked slightly. The phone should come with 32gb of storage AND an SD card slot. How is the 1520 the only flagship with this option? Outside of getting the hardware right Microsoft has to work hard on bringing better and more official apps to the platform and they have to get Windows 10 for phone right. Absolutely agree about no carrier exclusives. I'm not switching from T-Mobile to get any phone.
 

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