03-29-2015 02:12 PM
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  1. RJ Priest's Avatar
    The single most important upcoming & rumoured device.... the "flagship".

    The community appears to be split between those long suffering for an up to date "flagship" device, and those who are quick to comment, "here come the tears about flagships". Have empathy for those of us longing for the "flagship", for it is our "white whale".

    For many of us, one or more of the following conditions apply:

    - Love at first sight with the Lumia 920, couldn't get it due to carrier exclusivity. Waited out the speculated 6 month exclusivity to no avail, settled for ATIV S or other device.

    - Lumia 925 is announced with limited release (e.g. not in Canada at all).

    - Lumia 1020 is announced - excited for the camera, but mixed feelings about the S4 processor, fearing lack of "future proofing". Limited availabilty, although better availability than the 920 (e.g. 2 of 3 Canadian carriers, unlocked at MS store - but only in dull black).

    - Lumia 1520 is announced - wow! S800, camera almost as good as L1020, best in class display = "this is what I've been waiting for!" or "a little too big for me". Product immediately crippled by carrier exclusivity, neutered by AT&T for our American friends, and extremely limited availability (e.g. not available in Canada). Can't see and handle one in person, so weary about blindly ordering one online from 3rd party reseller.

    - Lumia Icon / 930 is announced - specs are leading edge, but physical design is love it or hate it, again with the extremely limited availability (again, not in Canada, etc).

    So, many of us have been waiting since Fall 2012 to get a beautiful PureView flagship device. I love the AMOLED display of my ATIV S, but as a photography enthusiast, the camera on it leaves me constantly yearning for Nokia's camera tech. If I could have purchased a 920 at launch like I wanted... I wouldn't be making this thread. :p

    So for the 2012 WP8 adopters who were hoping to upgrade in fall 2014, but now have to wait until fall 2015 with Windows 10, can the long awaited "flagship" live up to expectations, or at this point, is it a no-win scenario for Microsoft Mobile?

    While there have been many threads for concepts, dream devices, or specs; rather than typing out the typical list of top of the line specs that we've all seen, let's talk about the potential "heart breakers" that will cause the "flagship" to not live up to expectations.

    For me:

    Design:
    The physical design should be one of beauty, not a cookie-cutter cell phone that looks like iPhone, Galaxy, HTC One, LG G-series, etc. All those phones pretty much look the same. I am a huge fan of Nokia's fabula design language. It really looks like a work of art, and helps give Windows Phone a refreshing and unique identity.

    In a nut shell, I would love to see the design as a thinner Lumia 920 with larger display & a little less bezel (not bezel-less, because we need a bezel).
    Found this in bing image search, this is the right direction:


    I love it!

    If the design were Lumia 930 / 830 style, or worse (really rounded like iPhone, etc) it would be a bitter pill to swallow, but if the camera is amazing, I'll take it. Secondary preference: Lumia 1520 / 925 body style.

    Display:
    Really hoping for AMOLED. The community is probably split down the middle between LCD and AMOLED, but I always say, put an ATIV S side by side with a 920, and the ATIV S display looks excellent, especially with WP8 black theme.

    Would love if part of erasing the bad blood with Samsung results in Microsoft Mobile using Samsung's best AMOLED displays.

    LCD isn't a deal breaker for me, but I'd be disappointed if it were not the very best LCD display on the market (like the 1520 at the time). To me, glance screen makes the most sense with an AMOLED display. Displaying the entire LCD even at low brightness really isn't a good idea for battery life.

    If the display were less than 5" in size, it would be a potential deal breaker.

    Camera:
    I can't imagine being disappointed with the camera, but as a bonus, I would love to see the Nokia imaging team really work some magic and help show us the benefit of being in-house at Microsoft.

    Hoping that we move back down toward f2.0 or f2.2 as the 930 / 1520 don't offer as good of low light performance as the 920 / 925.

    The camera is the single most important feature for me. It was the camera of the Lumia 920 (along with it's design and WP8 software) that made me fall in love with Windows Phone. Ultimately, if I don't like the design of the phone or the display technology, if the camera is the best in the world and the ex-Nokia imaging team retains it's crown, I'm still getting the flagship.

    HAAC Microphones:

    I desperately hope that Microsoft Mobile continues use of Nokia's HAAC microphones for excellent quality audio recordings to go with our videos.

    Availability:

    The single most important factor, and the ultimate heart breaker. This must finally be the device that is offered on all carriers worldwide. If it is not available on all carriers, then please also offer it unlocked from the Microsoft store in all colours (not only black). If I want an iPhone, Galaxy, or Blackberry (ok, maybe not anymore) I can get it from every carrier. Oh, you want a Windows Phone - sorry that you can't get one.

    Without a doubt, Windows Phone has suffered from carrier exclusivity. I know that I'm not the only one who has desperately wanted to "shut up and give Nokia (and now Microsoft) my money", but simply can't, because of carrier or country exclusivity and they wouldn't directly sell us a device.

    It's safe to say that the general specs will be nothing to worry about (s810, it'll have a large battery, etc). What are some of the more unique features and characteristics that you expect with the long awaited flagship? Do we expect too much of this device? What about the final product may not make it worth the wait? Have you moved on, and Microsoft will now have to win you back?
    Last edited by RJ Priest; 03-02-2015 at 08:04 PM. Reason: typo
    03-02-2015 08:01 PM
  2. Mike Santagata's Avatar
    I couldn't agree more! I originally left Sprint, due to lack of support for Windows and went to Tmobile and got the Lumia 810. Shortly after, the 810 became the red headed step child of the Lumia line. I really wanted something more high end eventually, tmobile picked up the 925, which I loved. I began to feel annoyed that any flagships (1020, and 1520) became att exclusive, and then the icon became Verizon exclusive. The 1520 was my dream phone and id honestly love to have it. For now, I settled with the HTC one for windows and I tolerate it. However, assuming this new flagship is truly a flagship, and isn't carrier exclusive to att, ill pick it up. I have high hopes, and would eventually like to see the late Mclaren we were promised.
    RJ Priest likes this.
    03-02-2015 08:10 PM
  3. heickelrrx's Avatar
    Right now ms focused on budget and midrange. They plan to increase market share before killer flagship appears so they will get better apps support.

    Just hope when flagship appears will having better apps than today
    03-02-2015 08:15 PM
  4. smoheath's Avatar
    I think you nailed it on all fronts. In regards to carrier exclusivity, I think that Microsoft shouldn't even deal with the carriers. They just need to make their next flagship work with all carriers. If the carrier chooses not to carry it, Microsoft will be able to sell it off contract at their stores. This way anyone can get it. Microsoft has enough money to market it themselves without any help from the carriers. If Microsoft's next flagship is exclusive to AT&T or Verizon I'm gonna be pissed. It might just make me switch to Android. Which is something I really don't want to do.
    raycpl and RJ Priest like this.
    03-03-2015 01:47 AM
  5. mase123987's Avatar
    Very simple for me: Match other flagship phones on specs and sell it at $450 off contract on day one, $50 on contract. I bought the 920 day one because it was $450 instead of $650. When you are far behind, you can't play by the same rules as the big boys.
    psudotechzealot and smoheath like this.
    03-03-2015 02:11 AM
  6. Blacklac's Avatar
    Flagships never have it all. Someone is always upset. If Microsoft made a $1k phone, it might have it all. Lol
    03-03-2015 02:13 AM
  7. 0000alex0000's Avatar
    physical design for 930 is not a problem. The problem is its ****ty build quality and ****ty screen
    03-03-2015 02:16 AM
  8. grantpwarren's Avatar
    Flagships never have it all. Someone is always upset. If Microsoft made a $1k phone, it might have it all. Lol
    650? Lol you must mean $1500 ;)
    03-03-2015 02:17 AM
  9. SlickShoesRUCrazy's Avatar
    Whatever "flagship" they come up with, it NEEDS to be available through the microsoft store for direct purchase and functional on ALL carriers.

    None of this carrier exclusive bull****.

    One flagship that functions on all carriers.
    03-03-2015 08:26 PM
  10. Nicholas Maguire's Avatar
    I will be perfectly happy with whatever they put out as long as its compatible with CDMA AND GSM. I hate that the 1520 won't work on Verizon, and the Icon wont work with LTE on AT&T. I find that to be ridiculous.
    03-03-2015 08:29 PM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    None of this carrier exclusive bull****.
    I don't think any of us know for sure why Nokia/Microsoft seem big on the carrier exclusives, so we can only surmise. I suspect that it's the only way they can get a carrier to even carry the phone in the first place. Verizon or AT&T probably tells them, "Yeah we'll take it, as long as nobody else does for 6 months."

    One flagship that functions on all carriers.
    Are you talking about a single device that works on all carriers, or an identical variation for each carrier? As far as I know the Nexus 6 is the first and so far only device that works on all carriers. Others like the iPhone and Samsung's flagships do not have a single device that works on all carriers, but yet they produce a variation for each carrier that are identical except for carrier specific internals.
    a5cent likes this.
    03-03-2015 08:39 PM
  12. SlickShoesRUCrazy's Avatar
    I don't think any of us know for sure why Nokia/Microsoft seem big on the carrier exclusives, so we can only surmise. I suspect that it's the only way they can get a carrier to even carry the phone in the first place. Verizon or AT&T probably tells them, "Yeah we'll take it, as long as nobody else does for 6 months."
    But that is what's killing them. That's why they need something people can purchase directly from them if they truly want a windows phone.



    Are you talking about a single device that works on all carriers, or an identical variation for each carrier? As far as I know the Nexus 6 is the first and so far only device that works on all carriers. Others like the iPhone and Samsung's flagships do not have a single device that works on all carriers, but yet they produce a variation for each carrier that are identical except for carrier specific internals.
    Either way works. They just need a flagship phone people can purchase that will work on whatever carrier of choice.

    If they release a 940 or 1030 or 1530, people need to know it will function with whatever carrier they choose.

    Hell, if they want, make a phone called the Lumia S(urface) and make it so that it's only available for purchase directly from them for the enthusiasts which will function on all major carrier like the nexus way or go with the iphone/galaxy way.

    The rest of the lumia line can have carrier specific/exclusive objective.

    They just need to ensure that any flagship phone they release can get into as many hands as possible.
    03-03-2015 08:53 PM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    But that is what's killing them. That's why they need something people can purchase directly from them if they truly want a windows phone.
    We know. TGP wasn't saying it's a good thing. It's just either that, or not have carriers sell subsidized WP devices, or even more likely, not sell any WP devices at all.

    Considering almost everyone in the U.S. expects their carrier to provide subsidized high-end devices, it's the only choice MS has. WP isn't going anywhere in the U.S. without carrier subsidies. All these companies play hardball. If carriers are in a position to extract some advantage, like a device exclusive, they will. Whether that hurts MS or WP is of little concern to them.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-03-2015 at 09:28 PM.
    03-03-2015 09:03 PM
  14. SlickShoesRUCrazy's Avatar
    We know. TGP wasn't saying it's a good thing. It's just either that, or not have carriers sell subsidized WP devices, or even more likely, not sell any WP devices at all.

    Considering almost everyone in the U.S. expects their carrier to provide subsidized high-end devices, it's the only choice MS has. WP isn't going anywhere in the U.S. without carrier subsidies. All these companies play hardball. If carriers are in a position to extract some advantage, like a device exclusive, they will. Whether that hurts MS or WP is not of little concern to them.
    Microsoft could finance the sales. You can purchase a nexus 6 directly from Motorola and finance it. If you pay it off within like 9-12 months, it's interest free.

    The real issue is getting carriers to allow any device MS sells to functions on all carriers. That's where the issue would arise.

    They need to figure something out though, or their spiral into irrelevancy in the smart phone market will only continue. We are already seeing their plan B if the day ever comes and they kill off windows phone all together.
    a5cent likes this.
    03-03-2015 09:10 PM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    But that is what's killing them. That's why they need something people can purchase directly from them if they truly want a windows phone.
    Who's going to buy a high priced device from microsoft.com, or even know to look there in the first place? The normal cell phone user, at least in the US, still buys their phone at the carrier store.

    Microsoft needs carriers, who are the ones on the front lines, to push their phones. Apple initially used AT&T, and T-Mobile & then Verizon pushed Android out of the gate. Microsoft has already proved weak in marketing. They need willing partners, but they haven't been able to get them. Right now there's actually little to no reason for the carriers to push WPs. iPhone and Android users are happy with their devices, and a Windows Phone doesn't currently offer any compelling reason to switch. The carrier certainly isn't going to try to convince them to switch. What's the point?
    03-03-2015 09:15 PM
  16. Robinsonmac's Avatar
    Pretty much MS is screwed in the US. I fear they missed the boat with the carriers and there is no reason for them to push our care if WP succeeds our fails
    tgp likes this.
    03-03-2015 09:27 PM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    The real issue is getting carriers to allow any device MS sells to functions on all carriers. That's where the issue would arise.
    Do you know why? No upfront subsidy. The ability to "outsource" all support and customer interaction to MS. Charge Monthly. That's almost free money. Shouldn't all carriers be clamouring to get such a model implemented?

    Anyway, I agree MS must figure out something. I just don't think "direct sales through MS stores" has much chance of helping WP. It would be great for people on sites like this... that's probably about it.
    Guytronic and tgp like this.
    03-03-2015 09:27 PM
  18. anon(5445874)'s Avatar
    Why do you call it the Nokia Image Team in your post? Nokia doesn't own it anymore. That team gets paychecks that are signed by Microsoft, not nokia.
    03-03-2015 09:47 PM
  19. RJ Priest's Avatar
    Why do you call it the Nokia Image Team in your post? Nokia doesn't own it anymore. That team gets paychecks that are signed by Microsoft, not nokia.
    Fair question. I could have just said, "the imaging team". By calling them the "Nokia Imaging Team", I am referring to the skilled and talented team which was a part of the transformation of Nokia Devices & Services Division to Microsoft Mobile. I am not referring to present day Nokia.
    03-04-2015 12:09 AM
  20. RJ Priest's Avatar
    Microsoft needs carriers, who are the ones on the front lines, to push their phones....
    It really is a no-win scenario. Either no carrier support, or carrier support where the employees at the regional carrier stores do everything in their power to push customers away from Windows Phone. We've heard countless stories from community members who have almost had to argue with a store rep to sell them a Windows Phone. My friend wanted to get a Lumia 920 because he absolutely hated the lag and freezing of his Android HTC EVO 3D and liked my Windows Phone, especially features like the Xbox integration that I showed him. He went into a Rogers store here in Canada, and walked out with a Galaxy S4 because the sales rep managed to sway him away from Windows Phone and stick with Android (I still don't understand how it happened).

    My buddy is a good example of "average consumer", the type of person who the sales rep has complete influence over. Not someone (the minority, like those of us here on Windows Central) who is self-educated about the different mobile operating systems and phones on the market.
    Laura Knotek and a5cent like this.
    03-04-2015 12:16 AM
  21. Visa Declined's Avatar
    Google/Motorola made the Nexus 6 work on all the US carriers, and even got the big 4 to simultaneously sell it as well. If Google can do it for a phone most normal people have never heard of, then I don't see why Microsoft can't do it as well.

    The reason Microsoft makes these exclusive deals is because the carrier pays for advertising and promotions. When the Nexus 6 hit the stores, it was basically a silent release, no big signs, no special placement, nothing.

    But much like Nexus devices, people who buy Windows Phones usually know what they want when they're walking through the door, they're there to get that specific phone, and a big marketing campaign is basically wasted on people like them. Microsoft needs to drop the carrier exclusives, put the phone on all carriers, and promote the device themselves. I bet you anything they don't though. Verizon or AT&T will get it, and it'll be exclusive.
    EMINENT 1 likes this.
    03-04-2015 05:28 AM
  22. LumiaWorld's Avatar
    I'm really hoping that the upcoming Lumia flagship has a KILLER design...

    Samsung, Apple and HTC lately have gorgeous flagships... It's really a stiff competition when it comes to the high end market that's why Microsoft must give everything that they can give when it comes to design.
    03-04-2015 05:41 AM
  23. LumiaWorld's Avatar
    Oh, and one more thing... I hope the next Lumia flagship is made out of metal...

    Obviously metal is a trend nowadays on flagship phones... And Microsoft must go with that trend
    03-04-2015 05:42 AM
  24. a5cent's Avatar
    The reason Microsoft makes these exclusive deals is because the carrier pays for advertising and promotions.
    Promotions were certainly part of it too, but I'm told the subsidy was the bigger issue.

    Nokia had to earn money and please shareholders. MS isn't in the same boat as Nokia. Neither was Google/Motorola. Both are/were fine with just breaking even. I wouldn't be surprised by a strategy shift by the time W10 comes around, where we'll see higher priced / unsubsidized WP flagships on all carriers.
    03-04-2015 06:04 AM
  25. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Google/Motorola made the Nexus 6 work on all the US carriers, and even got the big 4 to simultaneously sell it as well. If Google can do it for a phone most normal people have never heard of, then I don't see why Microsoft can't do it as well.
    There's a big difference between Google and MS in the mobile market, that's probably why they could get in the stores. Also Google always sells their devices first.
    Al4video likes this.
    03-04-2015 10:57 AM
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