Snapdragon 820, Lumia 940xl

peachy001

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I like Daniel and all, but if those specs for Cityman are "dead-on" accurate as he states, then Joe Belfiore is a liar. I don't believe that for one second. Those are rumored specs. He may trust the source, but it flies in the face of what Microsoft has stated the next Windows 10 flagship phone will be capable of doing.
The 820 has the GPU capable of driving the dual displays and the QHD native that the Microsoft execs have been stating Continuum phones would have. As a matter of fact, they stated that the continuum enabled phones would be capable of simultaneously running 2 displays at QHD, which means it can't be the 810, as that would not be possible.

Dan Rubino was the Dan. Also, the 810 2.1 was not commercially available at that time.

Continuum may well have plans to drive two screens, but perhaps not every continuum enabled device will. Indeed, the devices next year are likely to be better at delivering on the promise.

While I hope the D-man is wrong, or even deliberately lowering our expectations, I can't see it. I was carefully following his comments on the matter. He sprang to the defence of the 810 immediately.
 

rhapdog

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Dan Rubino was the Dan. Also, the 810 2.1 was not commercially available at that time.
Sorry, I thought he went by Daniel. Daniel is my real first name, and I get offended when people shorten it to Dan.

Perhaps he likes to be called Dan, though. Just haven't seen it happen until now.

Continuum may well have plans to drive two screens, but perhaps not every continuum enabled device will. Indeed, the devices next year are likely to be better at delivering on the promise.
Every continuum enabled device MUST drive two screens, or continuum will not function, period. This has already been stated by Microsoft. Has no one paid attention? I guess I have because continuum is what I am MOST interested in with W10m.

It must be able to drive both the screen on the phone and the external screen simultaneously, otherwise, you would not be able to answer a call when you receive one. This has been stated more than once by Joe Belfiore and other Microsoft execs.

There is no perhaps on this one. Either Microsoft has been lying to us about continuum and the upcoming W10 flagship phones, or Daniel Rubino has fallen for misinformation like so many others seem to when chasing rumors and attempting to predict the future. I have a great amount of respect for Daniel, but, like the rest of us, he is human. Mistakes can and will happen in life. If you have never made a mistake, then you must be God Almighty, in which case I would like to ask you about the duck-billed platypus. Were you exercising your sense of humor that day?

Sorry, I'll side with what we know about new W10m flagships being equipped with continuum and what the requirements of continuum are. And what I mean by "what we know" I mean what has been publicly stated my Microsoft on a number of occasions. I'm not talking about rumors or speculation here. That means the facts that are already in place supersede any speculation about what chip will drive the new flagships. Rumored specs are not facts that are already in place. If facts contradict a rumor, then the rumor is false or someone has lied about the facts.

I'm not saying "I'm right, it's not the 810." What I am saying is either rumors are false and it's not the Snapdragon 810 or high level Microsoft execs have been lying to us. You can't have it both ways.
 

peachy001

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I'll be sure not to call you Dan, can't say the same for the Rubmeister though. Unless of course he puts me straight. Anyhow, back to the Snapdragons.

You sure the 810 v2.1 can't be used for continuum? What about the 808? I'm not picking, I just want to be sure.

And, just so you know, I want you to be right on this.

Oh, and the platypus? Looks perfect to me, evolution may not cause beauty, but it does cause things to "just work".
 

rhapdog

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Video: Windows Continuum for Phones

Starting time at 1:36.

Joe Belfiore said:
And with new parts from Qualcomm, we have processors that can drive two screens separately in these new phone devices, and so that's how we enable the phone screen to work independently from the PC screen.

Notice he states, "new parts from Qualcomm"

and "can drive two screens separately"

and "in these new phone devices".

That means only for new phones, a new part from Qualcomm that wasn't out yet at the time of the video, and it will have to be able to drive two screens.

That's how sure I am. There are other videos where he states, "We're doing a simulation because the hardware isn't available yet."
 

peachy001

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I never tire of hearing Joe talk about new features!

On the flip side, does version 2.1 definitely not have that capability? I'm asking because I am dying to know. Not calling you out, or claiming any high ground. V2.1 satisfies the "new" test, and the "not currently available" test.

I also noted that he talked about those features coming after the launch of W10. Could it be that the Cityman and Talkman will release with 10, but then an 820 Continuum device could launch December time with an 820?
 

rhapdog

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I never tire of hearing Joe talk about new features!
On that, we agree. Love it.

On the flip side, does version 2.1 definitely not have that capability? I'm asking because I am dying to know. Not calling you out, or claiming any high ground. V2.1 satisfies the "new" test, and the "not currently available" test.
I honestly don't know about the 2.1 version. It SEEMS to me that versions of the same numbered processor would be to fix issues with a processor, and new features would require a new number. I'm really not sure, though. For that, we'll have to consult Bing or a person with good knowledge of the chip.
I also noted that he talked about those features coming after the launch of W10. Could it be that the Cityman and Talkman will release with 10, but then an 820 Continuum device could launch December time with an 820?
I suppose that could be it, but I'd really be surprised after all the talk of Continuum for W10 for phones if the first flagship launched for W10 doesn't have it. That could be disastrous for Microsoft.

The 820 is already testing in prototypes, that much I know. It should be ready in time for a late September or October mass launch in products, as in, a W10 Flagship launching about that time could conceivably be carrying it.

If Microsoft and Qualcomm are working closely together on this as they claim, then Microsoft knows how to have the rest of the hardware ready and waiting.

From one video from Ignite, it appears an HDMI port will be an option instead of just MiraCast, but either one will require the new GPU on the chip, which the 820 has. The hardware wasn't available at Ignite either.
 

TechFreak1

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According to tests done by PhoneArena, the 810 v2.1 does overheat and throttles itself as much as 60%!!!!! It is the worst throttle offender when compared to Apple chip, Samsung, and Intel.... That isn't reassuring news.. Why release a product when you know beforehand that it is defective... Or doesn't perform as intended AND is 6 months old AND a new generation is 60 days away from full production.....?? Takata airbags anyone? Lol, being funny, but see my point...

But have Phone Arena tested the device [the 940] in question?

No, so right now all speculation about the 940 over heating is based on other phones which have different components which may or may surpress heat, internal design in low level code and hardware.

Unless there is hard concrete evidence of an actual consumer release 940 not a prototype being thoroughly tested by several credible independent public parties (unbias) and such tests shows the 940 suffers from over heating and throttling under load then everyone has the right to throw their arms in the air and start bemoaning what failed opportunity to brush aside the competition.

As of now there aren't any such sources / articles available to the general public so there is absolutely no point in fretting over tests on other phones and click bait articles.

. Why release a product when you know beforehand that it is defective.

That is usually a top down decision, believe you me no engineer or product designer worth his or her salt will ever want to release a defective product.

Video: Windows Continuum for Phones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oi1B9fjVs4

Starting time at 1:36.



Notice he states, "new parts from Qualcomm"

and "can drive two screens separately"

and "in these new phone devices".

That means only for new phones, a new part from Qualcomm that wasn't out yet at the time of the video, and it will have to be able to drive two screens.

That's how sure I am. There are other videos where he states, "We're doing a simulation because the hardware isn't available yet."

Unfortunately a lot of people don't listen either that or they are pretty selective of what they hear.

He has being consistently saying this over the course of the year. You should check out the WinHec Shenzen documentation there are tonnes of information there.

In reference to your early post Continuum has two levels
Level one is just the current mirror and apps expand to a larger screen (apps which support that function) when docked or connected wirelessly.

Level two the above and is able to drive two screens simultaneously wirelessly therefore you could play video on a larger display and use office on your phone.
 
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rhapdog

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In reference to your early post Continuum has two levels
Level one is just the current mirror and apps expand to a larger screen (apps which support that function) when docked or connected wirelessly.

Level two the above and is able to drive two screens simultaneously wirelessly therefore you could play video on a larger display and use office on your phone.
My understanding is that your Level one there is just standard screen projection, and that coupled with wireless keyboard and mouse is already available in GDR2. It's not really continuum, so to speak, but may be referred to as such outside of Microsoft. That's my understanding, at least.
 

Lucky7Phone

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On a side note, the Xiaomi Mi 5 is coming out in November with the SD820 and HTC and LG are going to be testing the SoC. I think they'll be releasing their flagship phablets in the second half of this year, coinciding with the Mi 5 release. I think MS will be releasing their phones around this time as well.

If you think about it, whenever MS released a phone, they always use the latest SoC at the time along with it's competitors. Like when the 1520 came out in fall of 2014, everyone was using the Snapdragon 800. Same thing happened when the 920 came out as well. I am sure they'll be using the 820 for the Lumia 940 XL
 

peachy001

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So, can v2.1 run Continuum?

I'd gave to check the dates, but MS have not always used the latest chips. In fact, MS released the 640, with an older 400 series chip. Anything else that came before was more Nokia than MS.

In February MS stated that they would be using the 810 in a W10 flagship. Hopefully, the have altered their opinion and Continuum dictates that it must be an 820. Reading both between and also on the lines, Rubino has repeatedly suggest that they are using the 810.

And if the 810 is thermally challenged now, what will it be like running Continuum?
 

TechFreak1

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My understanding is that your Level one there is just standard screen projection, and that coupled with wireless keyboard and mouse is already available in GDR2. It's not really continuum, so to speak, but may be referred to as such outside of Microsoft. That's my understanding, at least.

Yup, Level 1 is "Continuum" in marketing sense which is much better than tap & hold being touted as "Force Touch" by Apple :grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry:. I still can't get over it...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3145218/Apple-s-iPhone-6s-revealed-Leaked-pictures-new-handset-look-identical-new-Force-Touch-
screen.html


https://developer.apple.com/osx/force-touch/
 

rhapdog

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Yup, Level 1 is "Continuum" in marketing sense which is much better than tap & hold being touted as "Force Touch" by Apple :grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry::grincry:. I still can't get over it...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3145218/Apple-s-iPhone-6s-revealed-Leaked-pictures-new-handset-look-identical-new-Force-Touch-
screen.html


https://developer.apple.com/osx/force-touch/

Yeah, except Force Touch isn't tap and hold, it is sensitive to how hard the press is, not how long. It's a pressure sensitive touch, like the surface pen uses. They are pretty much adapting the idea to a new technology.
 

TechFreak1

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Yeah, except Force Touch isn't tap and hold, it is sensitive to how hard the press is, not how long. It's a pressure sensitive touch, like the surface pen uses. They are pretty much adapting the idea to a new technology.

Yes, I'm aware of that but your counting people to distinguish different levels of tap and hold that's why it's laughable.

With a pen it's easier as you can see the visible result therefore trial and error is not needed; whereas with this it could be rather aggravating for the average joe to use. However that experience will purely depend on this is implemented (I could suggest something that would make it easier but I'm not - not giving them any ideas! :evil:).
 

rhapdog

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Yeah, I see what you mean. I just thought you were calling the technology tap and hold.

The only use I can see for it is for an on-screen piano keyboard where the volume gets louder with harder key presses like a real piano. Wouldn't feel like one, but I thought of that when trying one such app on my phone. haha!

Yeah, signing or drawing with a finger just isn't cool, because your finger is in the way of what you're doing. Laughable. They basically moved tech away from the old style plastic stylus to a touch sensitive screen, and that worked for them. But you can't really take it away from the touch sensitive pen. It will never be the same. An artist will want the pen.

It might be useful in some games where a hard tap fires a missile or grenade and a soft tap fires a pistol or something. Haha.

I'd say they could use a hard tap in place of tap and hold for right-click, but for me it would be disastrous. Well, not just for me, but anyone with carpel tunnel syndrome. With a pen, it's different. Using the tip of a finger to apply pressure is kind of like typing, which can damage it further. Harder taps increases the damage faster, and can cause pain and swelling if you're already suffering. No thanks. That's why I like the word flow keyboard over the tap-a-tap-tap, and I prefer the microphone in Windows 10 for text boxes.

Okay, we're officially derailing the topic. We better stop. ;)
 

maverick786us

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I never tire of hearing Joe talk about new features!

On the flip side, does version 2.1 definitely not have that capability? I'm asking because I am dying to know. Not calling you out, or claiming any high ground. V2.1 satisfies the "new" test, and the "not currently available" test.

I also noted that he talked about those features coming after the launch of W10. Could it be that the Cityman and Talkman will release with 10, but then an 820 Continuum device could launch December time with an 820?

SD 819 Version 2,1 is used by Xperia Z3+ and look at its benchmarks, its not even close to Galaxy S6, its clearly shown, that they downclocked it to overcome the heat issue.
 

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