10-06-2015 01:40 PM
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  1. HeyCori's Avatar
    Probably about the same as the 1520, so I'm guessing around $650-$700.
    Guytronic likes this.
    09-08-2015 09:10 AM
  2. tgp's Avatar
    Although pricing lower will help sales, there is a caveat there: to a certain extent, we perceive quality based on cost. For example, give someone a phone. If you tell that person that it costs $800, they will perceive its quality as higher than if we give them the exact same device and tell them it costs $400. It seems that Apple uses this to their advantage. Microsoft might do well to keep prices higher. But, is it better to have lower sales with a higher profit margin and better perception of quality, or more sales with less margin?

    Maybe the bigger question is: is it going to matter either way? I don't see consumers choosing a $450 950/XL over the tried and proven OnePlus, Moto X, or LG G4, and neither do I see people buying it at $750 over the iPhone or Samsung flagships.
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    09-08-2015 09:13 AM
  3. HeyCori's Avatar
    Maybe the bigger question is: is it going to matter either way? I don't see consumers choosing a $450 950/XL over the tried and proven OnePlus, Moto X, or LG G4, and neither do I see people buying it at $750 over the iPhone or Samsung flagships.
    And maybe Microsoft agrees. Microsoft's low-mid range phones are more successful than their higher end stuff. The same holds true in America and across the world. Despite being discontinued by T-Mobile, the Lumia 640 quickly shot up to become the second most popular WP in the U.S. If you look at the sales data, the majority of customers have spoken and they do not want a flagship WP. Which isn't to say that MS shouldn't have a flagship phone. They should have a phone to satisfy every level of WP enthusiast, from casual to hardcore. But Microsoft knows they're going to sell more WPs at $199 and cheaper. And Microsoft knows they need a flagship, and they know it likely won't sell as well. So maybe Microsoft is playing the profit margin game with the 950. Save a little on the outside so they can make more money with every sell. Why blow the budget on the 950 when the other two tiers of WPs (that MS hasn't introduced yet) will probably sell better?
    Last edited by HeyCori; 09-08-2015 at 10:20 PM.
    libra89, a5cent and Guytronic like this.
    09-08-2015 01:44 PM
  4. slivy58's Avatar
    MS has detailed theur plans. It in involves only a few handset, in the categories of budget, enterprise and flagship. They want to rely on partners more.

    I think this is actually a good strategy. I'm not smart enough to say what can make Windows mobile successful in the US, but I'm smart enough to know that no one else here does either.

    We can only hope. In the mean time, Windows mobile is doing increasingly well overseas - I think this is the key to success. Much as Android became very popular globally before succeeding in the US.
    I'm not too optimistic much will change in regards to the receptiveness towards WPs for a considerable amount of time, doubting the purported new handsets along w/Win 10 will do a whole heck of a lot either, if the former does come to fruition its availability/pricing will tell me a lot... I got my lifejacket ready LOL.
    Last edited by Elky64; 09-08-2015 at 06:05 PM.
    09-08-2015 01:58 PM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    And Microsoft knows they need a flagship but it likely won't sell as well. So maybe Microsoft is playing the profit margin game with the 950. Save a little on the outside so they can make more money with every sell. Why blow the budget on the 950 when the other two tiers of WPs (that MS hasn't introduced yet) will probably sell better?
    This is how I expect it to play out. Even if W10M is successful, it probably won't be with the first round. It will take at least a year or two until developers get on board and Microsoft's mobile department finally has a viable ecosystem. Microsoft might as well make a profit on what does sell, and as the ecosystem matures, let the flagships sell themselves.

    I'm not too optimistic much will change in regards to the receptiveness towards WPs for a considerable amount of time, doubting the purported new handsets along w/Win 10 will do a whole heck of a lot either, if the former does come to frustration its availability/pricing will tell me a lot... I got my lifejacket ready LOL.
    I agree; see above...
    HeyCori, a5cent and slivy58 like this.
    09-08-2015 02:02 PM
  6. gwinegarden's Avatar
    Certainly more than I will want to pay. My needs just can't justify a big price.
    11B1P likes this.
    09-08-2015 04:38 PM
  7. KaiserMcG's Avatar
    Probably at the same level as a S6 or equivalent Android, but that's too much!

    Why? Because Win 10 as a mobile OS is unproven and a lot of damage to the brand has been done in the last 2 years with a pile of low-middle end devices that offered very little between them in reality (WP's ability to run just as acceptably well on low-end hardware as higher-end stuff is both a blessing and a curse), the fact that while most of the top apps are now available they just don't work as well as their Android/IOS counterparts, and the lack of "must have" features like Cortana (not my cup of tea personally anyway but it is supposed to be a main selling point), or indeed the dilution of those "must haves" by makinf them available to the other platforms (and again they often work better there too)

    Where I am the network operators have only ever carried 2/3 different WP's between them - all low to medium end stuff - and there seems very little interest in changing that. People will just not shell out 6/700 on a Windows Phone device off-contract and then have to pay for a network package on top of that for a device that realistically is still lagging behind the competition in many ways.

    I know this will no doubt be an unpopular opinion with the WP fanboys but I've had several of them now in the last few years and while yes, they're fast, clean and stable... they're also pretty stark and basic in terms of the app experience, there's virtually no local apps (and no plans for any), and there just not out there beyond the prepay 50-100 market (ie: kids who can't afford the higher end handsets)

    Win 10 has promise as an OS but it's not there yet IMO (and all the data gathering and lack of control over what's installed on my own system bothers me). Whether it'll be enough on mobile remains to be seen, but it has a lot of catching up to do if it's to actually become a sustainable platform.
    slivy58 likes this.
    09-08-2015 05:27 PM
  8. Joe Acerbic's Avatar
    572 Quatloos and 150725 Flanian Pobble Beads, respectively.

    What? Was there some other purpose for all this guessing?
    someone2639 likes this.
    09-08-2015 08:41 PM
  9. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    It will take at least a year or two until developers get on board and Microsoft's mobile department finally has a viable ecosystem.
    Speaking rhetorically, why are we assuming this is going to be a defacto thing? W10 (desktop) is out now, but I didn't see an army of mobile app developer launch partners.
    Wasn't that what folks were saying for the past year? Developers are waiting for Windows 10 before they flood the Windows 10 app store with a deluge of universal apps?
    If by this time next year, these forums are having the same discussion, Windows mobile is never going to get beyond 2-3%, as Paul Thurrott muses about in the latest What the Tech podcast.
    mariusmuntean and tgp like this.
    09-08-2015 10:38 PM
  10. tgp's Avatar
    Speaking rhetorically, why are we assuming this is going to be a defacto thing? W10 is out now, but I didn't see an army of mobile app developer launch partners.
    If by this time next year, these forums are having the same discussion, it's never going to get beyond 2-3%, as Paul Thurrott muses about in the latest What the Tech podcast.
    TBH, I agree. However, I've learned that you have to be careful here! Most WC members do not think that there is an IF; there is only a WHEN. You are correct; I should have included a big IF.

    Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    09-08-2015 10:43 PM
  11. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    I has been expected. Who ever said that with the launch of windows 10 on PC devs will flood the store with quality apps was either dreaming or having a "happy" day. One of the reasons devs are not so eager to step in is the fact that Windows 10 looks and works still as an unfinished product! Sorry guys, be at least honest and accept the truth! I've used it for 3 weeks until it died..never gonna touch this OS again, it's simply not ok, everything is out of place, KBs that break things , apps that are at most beta, tiles not working...on a public/productive release...
    By the same time next year, the same discussions will be held here, with all the same people arguing that windows 10 is the best!! while the OS will still be a joke.
    being a fan also means to admit when something is not going right...not only blindly defending.
    09-09-2015 02:56 AM
  12. luxnws's Avatar
    It just depends how much money Microsoft is willing to lose, er, I mean subsidize per unit.

    Taking into account that the 950/950XL are supposed to be top-of-the-line flagship phones, I'd guess $599 for the 950 and $649-$699 for the 950XL unlocked if Microsoft prices to break even.
    09-09-2015 03:56 AM
  13. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    It just depends how much money Microsoft is willing to lose, er, I mean subsidize per unit.

    Taking into account that the 950/950XL are supposed to be top-of-the-line flagship phones, I'd guess $599 for the 950 and $649-$699 for the 950XL unlocked if Microsoft prices to break even.
    Microsoft under Ballmer would have subsidized the devices at a loss, but that's not the impression I get from Nadella, at all.
    Microsoft will price these at launch, intending to make a decent margin on each device.
    Of course, they won't shift many units---no pre-announcement Apple store lines for these things---but the main question is, when the Lumia 950 devices inevitably won't sell well, does Microsoft double down on more smartphones next year, or do they wash their hands of the phones business?
    I'm not sure when that will be, but at some point, remaining at 2-3% marketshare is going to become untenable, even for Microsoft.
    09-09-2015 09:18 AM
  14. Dan Stutzman1's Avatar
    If either of these phones is over $450 USD, they won't sell. There is too much competition from lower-end near flagship devices like the Motorola X Pure/Style/Play, the Alcatel Idol3 and the Asus ZenFone 2 and that's not including the still very nice 1Plus1 or the 1Plus2. Then on top of that the Apple 5s will be priced competively and the Apple 6/6+ will be also reduced. And that isn't including the still very nice and very reduced prices for the LG G3 or the S5.

    Microsoft needs to sell these at cost with the starting range for the smaller model at $399 and the larger one at $449 otherwise, next year at this time we will be reading in the financial outlets another $500 million + hardware write off that Microsoft will be doing.
    melhiore likes this.
    09-09-2015 09:51 AM
  15. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    If either of these phones is over $450 USD, they won't sell. There is too much competition from lower-end near flagship devices like the Motorola X Pure/Style/Play, the Alcatel Idol3 and the Asus ZenFone 2 and that's not including the still very nice 1Plus1 or the 1Plus2. Then on top of that the Apple 5s will be priced competively and the Apple 6/6+ will be also reduced. And that isn't including the still very nice and very reduced prices for the LG G3 or the S5.

    Microsoft needs to sell these at cost with the starting range for the smaller model at $399 and the larger one at $449 otherwise, next year at this time we will be reading in the financial outlets another $500 million + hardware write off that Microsoft will be doing.
    Though they should, there is NO way Microsoft is going to price these upcoming Lumia phones starting at $399.
    I suspect, out of the gate, it'll run at full cost $599 for the smaller unit, $799 for the phablet. Microsoft will price these like Galaxies and iPhones.
    And, inevitably, they'll collect dust on display.......whoever puts them on display that is.

    Nobody is going to buy, or keep, a $600 Windows phone with a broken music app, a years behind Facebook app, an official Instagram app in Beta and no Snapchat.
    That's just the hard truth, no matter how much anybody here badmouths social networks.
    09-09-2015 09:57 AM
  16. Dan Stutzman1's Avatar
    Though they should, there is NO way Microsoft is going to price these upcoming Lumia phones starting at $399.
    I suspect, out of the gate, it'll run at full cost $599 for the smaller unit, $799 for the phablet. Microsoft will price these like Galaxies and iPhones.
    And, inevitably, they'll collect dust on display.......whoever puts them on display that is.

    Nobody is going to buy, or keep, a $600 Windows phone with a broken music app, a years behind Facebook app, an official Instagram app in Beta and no Snapchat.
    That's just the hard truth, no matter how much anybody here badmouths social networks.
    You are exactly right and the reason why I sold my L1520 for an iPhone 6+ (which was really disappointing - horrible Wifi and BT and a lot of app crashes) and just recently bought the Asus ZF2 (M551) for $300. I thought I could handle the app catalog shortcomings but the reality was that even the apps that were there had issues. Rudy helped with his 6-apps but it wasn't enough. I really hope MS can right the ship but they are only going to do that if they get the phones out there and in users hands and a price that is going to undercut everybody else because they don't have anything else to stand on. Maybe Continuum when it's here - the new Acer phones from IFA look promising but Acer is kinda hit or miss with a lot of miss in the handheld spectrum.

    I hope Microsoft realizes that $399 or bust for the 950 and $449 for the 950XL. Anything more and it will be just another Amazon Fire phone.
    melhiore likes this.
    09-09-2015 12:08 PM
  17. ohlumia's Avatar
    You are exactly right and the reason why I sold my L1520 for an iPhone 6+ (which was really disappointing - horrible Wifi and BT and a lot of app crashes) and just recently bought the Asus ZF2 (M551) for $300. I thought I could handle the app catalog shortcomings but the reality was that even the apps that were there had issues. Rudy helped with his 6-apps but it wasn't enough. I really hope MS can right the ship but they are only going to do that if they get the phones out there and in users hands and a price that is going to undercut everybody else because they don't have anything else to stand on. Maybe Continuum when it's here - the new Acer phones from IFA look promising but Acer is kinda hit or miss with a lot of miss in the handheld spectrum.

    I hope Microsoft realizes that $399 or bust for the 950 and $449 for the 950XL. Anything more and it will be just another Amazon Fire phone.
    I actually think these phones should sell for cheaper than 399 and 449 for a couple of reasons:
    1. Windows 10 Mobile is an unreleased and unproven OS
    2. There are no Apps, what's even worse is that they have been talking about closing the app gap for a few years but they have failed time and again to attract developers. The public now knows that this gap is never closing.
    3. Microsoft knows that they cannot bring a flagship with similar specs to other flagships to market, there needs to be clear innovation that puts them a step ahead of the competition, it could be hardware, could be software, could be UI (like force touch), etc...
    4. Anyone can walk into ATT, TMO, Verizon today and pick up an iphone 5s for next to nothing, comes with all the good microsoft apps, a much better app ecosystem than Windows Mobile, the phone is just as fast, has touch-id login, etc... accessories a gogo...
    The new lumias coming out don't even have a leg up on the 5S, let along the 6S with something like 3d touch.
    It is clear that these phones are just stop gaps, they look exactly like bigger Lumia 640s for a reason, it's the next step up from those, Microsoft's mid tier phones.
    The majority of people that have spent money on Windows phone lately have been paying sub 100$ for them, I'm looking at the 640. It's a damn good phone. One that someone wouldn't mind the empty app store for because the unit is so cheap.
    In my opinion, the 950 and 950XL have absolutely zero useful feature that would make me pick them over an iphone 5S or 6.
    If Microsoft makes the mistake of pricing these anywhere over 299 and 350, I certainly will watch youtube reviews but there is no way in hell I'm spending 600~700$ like I did on the 1520.

    The whole Windows mobile ecosystem is not even ready for a flagship right now if you ask me because of imcomplete OS, the lack of apps, the lost confidence, etc... Unless they bring a phone to market that will be a breakthrough like the Surface pro was, Windows mobile is going to be taking the looooooong route to get there.
    I'm excited to see what will come out of these phones as a technologist, but not enough to drop over 350.

    As for Apple, I find their products expensive but over the last few years where Microsoft couldn't even get the OS right, we've seen Apple piling innovations after innovations such as apple pay, touch id, 3d touch... it's like they've got a bag of tricks that doesn't dry up and they have enough lead and control on the market that they can release them one at a time without worrying about someone killing them... I'm going to accept this situation and start buying apple stocks and hope that Microsoft at some point comes with a breakthrough device.
    It's not the 950 and 950XL, I think we all know that.
    I won't even talk about Android, that thing is an insult of a mobile OS.
    Cheers,
    Last edited by ohlumia; 09-10-2015 at 01:06 AM.
    09-10-2015 12:44 AM
  18. Guytronic's Avatar
    I won't even talk about Android, that thing is an insult of a mobile OS.
    Is it?
    What is your specific reasoning for Android being an insult?
    09-10-2015 01:01 AM
  19. ohlumia's Avatar
    Personal opinion after trying to use a few Android devices: Original Galaxy S, Note 2, One m7, and most recently seeing a friends S6 run almost as fast as the Lumia 640 in simple OS tasks ...
    The main issue I had with Android was that I had to manage my apps like I did on PC, lots of basic apps that crashed like the messaging app, slow OS, need to reset the device every once in a while to get back to day 1 speeds, etc...
    Some of these are probably better today but I would not get caught dead with an Android device unless Windows phone is dead and iphones are completely out of my budget...
    In any case, I don't mean to start an OS war here, was just making a point that Microsoft better keep thee under 350$ and make sure they are not marketed as flagships... People that have used a 640 will go on wondering why they should pay 600$ for a 950 before they even start looking at iOS/Android.

    Cheers,
    Is it?
    What is your specific reasoning for Android being an insult?
    Guytronic likes this.
    09-10-2015 01:14 AM
  20. Dan Stutzman1's Avatar
    I will add that while WP is fast, it's not faster anymore than stock Android 5.1.1. The Asus ZF2 runs circles around my wife's Note4 and is faster than my SGS6 that is provided from work. I fell out of Android back in the 4.1 days because of Touchwiz and app crashes and overall bugginess which led to my L1520 and then my iPhone 6+. I came back to Android for the ZF2 because it was cheap & unlocked because I wanted to be back on AT&T's network (Sprint & VZW are a little dodgy where I live) and because I travel to New Zealand quite often (second SIM is sweet as) and the performance on it has been amazing.

    That said, I'm really hoping for a WP comeback. I am wanting for it to succeed but the price has to be right.
    09-10-2015 08:41 AM
  21. lparsons21's Avatar
    I have an Icon and an iPhone 6+, love both for differing reasons.
    IMO, the hardware and OS for the Windows Phones is fine and isn't the problem. The problem is the apps, or should I say the lack of all too many, especially the company focused ones like banking, equipment controls and others. Because of that a 'flagship' phone has little benefit to phones further down the food chain.
    If the new flagship phones come out at the prices that I've seen rumored, then I think they will languish on whatever shelves they might get on.
    IF MS wants these phones to garner more market share then they have to figure out a way to get these apps written/ported and to be feature complete with the versions on iOS and Android. If that means they have to pay these companies to do that, then that is what they will have to do.
    09-10-2015 11:35 AM
  22. floppyedonkey's Avatar
    LOL people thinking these devices are going to be so expensive like devices of the past are seriously not following tech close enough.

    Pricing has to drop, probably $400 range ($99 on contract). Like all other consumer hardware, phones are dropping in price.

    Hell you can get an HP 8 inch 2k display full win 10 pro tablet for $500 with a proper Intel x86 CPU & 4GB of RAM.
    PepperdotNet likes this.
    09-10-2015 01:38 PM
  23. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    The prices of the competitors' "flagships" are artificially inflated. There's no way a phone should cost that much and a big reason people buy them is because of the subsidy that fools them into thinking the full price is $200 bucks, not realizing or deliberately ignoring that they are actually paying $600-$1000 over time.

    The full price of a Microsoft flagship, at least at this point in time before the "app gap" and other issues are solved, must be close to the subsidized price of an iPhone or Galaxy for it to sell to any but the most die-hard fans and those who have a stellar grasp of economics and math.
    libra89 and floppyedonkey like this.
    09-10-2015 02:26 PM
  24. bo_woods's Avatar
    I actually think these phones should sell for cheaper than 399 and 449 for a couple of reasons:
    The new lumias coming out don't even have a leg up on the 5S
    lol
    09-10-2015 02:40 PM
  25. bo_woods's Avatar
    I feel they may actually price these competitively and go the way of other manufacturers who sell high spec phones for low prices, like Nexus, and OnePlus
    09-12-2015 09:54 AM
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