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10-13-2016 11:19 AM
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  1. ytrewq's Avatar
    I know lots of iPhone owners who were planning to upgrade to an iPhone 7 when released. Every one of them I've talked to today has said that they are so disappointed with the iPhone 7 that they are probably going to leave the Apple ecosystem and choose a different OS. The high price point, coupled with the lack of carrier subsidy in the US, coupled with the fact that you also have to spend $150 to upgrade your headphones, coupled with a lack of any compelling innovation, means that even the most devout iPhone loyalists are saying, "so what else is out there?"

    This is a monumental moment. The world is realizing that the emperor has no clothes.

    The Surface Book and Surface Pro lines have been so successful that Microsoft is kinda cool once again. So, in this monumental moment, if Microsoft has ANY decent phone for sale that will work on the dominant carriers like Verizon, the fanboys may finally be willing to take a serious look at an MS phone.

    So, what great alternative is Microsoft offering these longtime ifanboys to seal the deal? The answer: "You can buy a really nice Samsung Android phone that will tide you over until the SurfacePhone comes out next spring (which it may or may not do)."

    MS has completely dropped the ball. It reminds me of when Apple came out with the iPad, and the hardware partners were wondering, "what OS can we put on a tablet and try to compete with the iPad?" Since MS had no serious touch-based OS, the hardware partners had to turn to Android, which at the time was a touch-based phone OS that was not ideal but could be tweaked to work on a tablet. And to this day, Android remains the dominant OS in the tablet market.

    Sadly, MS has once again missed an incredible opportunity by failing to have any serious phone available at a key moment. My ifanboy friends will likely end up with a Samsung (as I had to when Verizon didn't carry the 950).

    This was a missed opportunity that will come back to haunt MS.
    09-07-2016 06:39 PM
  2. patcherd's Avatar
    More doom and gloom *sigh*

    Read the articles about Microsoft retrenching in 2016. They are not focused on mobile at this stage. They know they can't compete with apple and android in this space....not yet anyway. Give it time.

    They have to get the OS up to par and they are doing it quickly. Other OEMS are releasing phones for the platform so let's just leave it to trust Microsoft that they know what they are doing.
    Last edited by patcherd; 09-07-2016 at 07:47 PM.
    leonelfunes32 likes this.
    09-07-2016 07:32 PM
  3. editguy's Avatar
    There won't be many leaving the system. Apple has a cult-like following. There might be a lot of them wait for the iPhone 8, though.
    09-08-2016 12:22 AM
  4. ytrewq's Avatar
    More doom and gloom *sigh*

    Read the articles about Microsoft retrenching in 2016. They are not focused on mobile at this stage. They know they can't compete with apple and android in this space....not yet anyway. Give it time.

    They have to get the OS up to par and they are doing it quickly. Other OEMS are releasing phones for the platform so let's just leave it to trust Microsoft that they know what they are doing.
    Ha ha. With a phone OS that has low single digit market share, I think one thing MS has proven is that when it comes to marketing their phone OS, MS has no idea what they are doing.

    As for the "not focusing on mobile," that's my whole point. They should have been, because there is a window of opportunity that will be closed by the time they get around to having a phone worth considering. As for "giving it time," again, that's my point: There is no time to give. The window of opportunity is now.
    09-08-2016 12:16 PM
  5. ytrewq's Avatar
    There won't be many leaving the system. Apple has a cult-like following. There might be a lot of them wait for the iPhone 8, though.
    iPhone market share has been dropping the last couple of years. But this situation is unique, and even worse for Apple.

    There are a lot of people out there who still have iPhone 5 series phones. They can't wait for the 8 series, because their 5 is on its last leg. The 7 is a huge disappointment. So, maybe they just move to a new 6? Oh, wait -- the touchscreens are failing catastrophically on the 6 series, and Apple isn't standing behind the product and replacing the ones with problems. So, there's no desirable iPhone available right now for all of the iPhone 5 owners who are not in a position to wait another year for the 8 series. I spoke with several longtime Apple fanboys who are in that precise situation yesterday, and all of them had come to the conclusion that they're stuck moving to Android.

    Mark my words: This situation will be a disaster for Apple. iPhone market share in the US will drop significantly over the next 12 months.
    ananve and kaktus1389 like this.
    09-08-2016 12:29 PM
  6. DKD116's Avatar
    I completely agree, many see the Iphone7 as disappointing, the Iphone 6 series is having touch screen problems, and Samsung's new phone batteries are exploding. I myself was excited thinking "Wow what perfect timing for Microsoft to announce Surface Phone!" Now I see some articles saying the phone might not come until fall 2017?! By then I would assume Samsung and Apple would get there problems fixed, and have some new innovations.

    We need a new MS phone now/soon. Last year the 950 was basically ignored (no advertising), though I own it and love it. The 2k display, awesome camera, fast and unique OS, wireless charging, removable SD/battery, UWP that syncs with my PC, everything I want. Why can't they just upgrade the 950 and maybe add VR/AR capabilities like Samsung Gear VR? That could easily satisfy people until next fall, while staying a step ahead of Apple.

    I feel the one thing holding MS back (as always) is lack of a few major apps average consumers use daily, (Snapchat is huge, Pokmon Go too). Once a consumer sees they aren't available, they instantly move onto another option. ☹
    09-08-2016 03:57 PM
  7. theefman's Avatar
    And what is it about the mythical Surface phone that would attract all these dissatisfied iphone users?
    dgr_874, libra89 and melhiore like this.
    09-08-2016 04:12 PM
  8. ytrewq's Avatar
    And what is it about the mythical Surface phone that would attract all these dissatisfied iphone users?
    I believe that any company that comes out with a compelling phone right now will gain huge market share, due to the recent failings of Apple and Samsung. That is the opportunity that I'm referring to in this thread. An opportunity that has been missed because MS does not have a compelling phone right now.

    None of us know what features the Surface Phone will have, so obviously none of us know the answer to your question. However, I think we are all hoping that MS will make it innovative and compelling. If that doesn't happen, and it's a turd, then it doesn't matter when MS releases it. But if it is the innovative, compelling phone that we're hoping for, then MS's failure to get the innovative compelling phone into the marketplace sooner means they are missing an opportunity, because any disaffected Apple and Samsung fans will find other solutions long before mid-2017.
    09-08-2016 06:27 PM
  9. ttsoldier's Avatar
    I believe that any company that comes out with a compelling phone right now will gain huge market share, due to the recent failings of Apple and Samsung. That is the opportunity that I'm referring to in this thread. An opportunity that has been missed because MS does not have a compelling phone right now.

    None of us know what features the Surface Phone will have, so obviously none of us know the answer to your question. However, I think we are all hoping that MS will make it innovative and compelling. If that doesn't happen, and it's a turd, then it doesn't matter when MS releases it. But if it is the innovative, compelling phone that we're hoping for, then MS's failure to get the innovative compelling phone into the marketplace sooner means they are missing an opportunity, because any disaffected Apple and Samsung fans will find other solutions long before mid-2017.
    It takes features AND apps to sell phones. Sure the features can be awesome. But without apps, no one is going to purchase the device.

    As mentioned above, Pokmon go and Snapchat are big apps and are deciding factors when it comes to choosing a phone. It's not pretty, but it's the reality we live in today.
    09-08-2016 06:59 PM
  10. ytrewq's Avatar
    It takes features AND apps to sell phones. Sure the features can be awesome. But without apps, no one is going to purchase the device.

    As mentioned above, Pokmon go and Snapchat are big apps and are deciding factors when it comes to choosing a phone. It's not pretty, but it's the reality we live in today.
    For some people, apps are a factor. Most professionals I work with have never installed Pokmon Go or Snapchat on their phones (me included), and those kinds of things are non-issues. But they do want to keep using their existing headphones, and won't tolerate a touchscreen that fails.

    Just a few percent of iPhone users switching to MS would multiply MS's phone market share. Missed opportunity.
    melhiore likes this.
    09-08-2016 08:19 PM
  11. DKD116's Avatar
    When u think about it, to stay in the game they have to at least announce a phone this year right? Otherwise even more people will think "windows phone is dead" and won't consider switching. HP's Elite is the only new offering, and the Lumia 950 still isn't on Verizon. Market share would only go down, they have to be hiding something.
    09-08-2016 08:40 PM
  12. Jack Neill's Avatar
    And what is it about the mythical Surface phone that would attract all these dissatisfied iphone users?
    Certainly not the OS in its current state...
    Jcmg62 and mikepalma like this.
    09-08-2016 09:07 PM
  13. ttsoldier's Avatar
    For some people, apps are a factor. Most professionals I work with have never installed Pokmon Go or Snapchat on their phones (me included), and those kinds of things are non-issues. But they do want to keep using their existing headphones, and won't tolerate a touchscreen that fails.

    Just a few percent of iPhone users switching to MS would multiply MS's phone market share. Missed opportunity.
    And I agree with you. I too, have no interest in Pokmon go or Snapchat. But sadly we are out voted and need to accept the reality.

    Those of us who "don't care" about those apps are far, far, far outweighed by the millennials .... There is nothing we can do to fight it. Whether we want to use it or not, Snapchat and Pokmon is what is IN right now.
    melhiore, Jcmg62 and Laura Knotek like this.
    09-08-2016 09:29 PM
  14. th34monk3ys's Avatar
    Pokmon go was a a huge fad its lost so many millions of people already in one month -20m
    09-08-2016 09:41 PM
  15. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Pokmon go was a a huge fad its lost so many millions of people already in one month -20m
    Ok that's just one app.....

    The point is, we need apps.
    09-08-2016 10:17 PM
  16. patcherd's Avatar
    Banking apps would be great...in the meantime I just pin my bank to my start screen and there is my "app".

    Millennials dictate I guess the majority of the smartphone buying public and what apps are important to them.

    I'm a little older than "millenial" and I find what Microsoft offers is more than plenty for my needs and I know many others feel the same, but that is not what drives the market.

    If Microsoft is going after business so be it. They do that pretty well. More power to them. I wish them well and will continue to use the OS for as long as Microsoft keeps it going.

    Let's hope 2017 will be the year the phoenix rises from the ashes!
    Last edited by patcherd; 09-08-2016 at 11:49 PM.
    melhiore likes this.
    09-08-2016 10:51 PM
  17. etphoto's Avatar
    An increase in market share coupled with UWA will let (presumably) developers know that WP isn't really dead. Too late now but it would have been a good time to come out with a new phone.

    Maybe MS is getting ready to announce the 950 is coming to Verizon. That would help and something that could be done fairly quickly.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    09-08-2016 11:15 PM
  18. Ariel Takom's Avatar
    There won't be many leaving the system. Apple has a cult-like following. There might be a lot of them wait for the iPhone 8, though.
    Not the iPhone 8. More like, the iPhone 7 's'.
    09-09-2016 12:03 AM
  19. Ariel Takom's Avatar
    I know lots of iPhone owners who were planning to upgrade to an iPhone 7 when released. Every one of them I've talked to today has said that they are so disappointed with the iPhone 7 that they are probably going to leave the Apple ecosystem and choose a different OS. The high price point, coupled with the lack of carrier subsidy in the US, coupled with the fact that you also have to spend $150 to upgrade your headphones, coupled with a lack of any compelling innovation, means that even the most devout iPhone loyalists are saying, "so what else is out there?"

    This is a monumental moment. The world is realizing that the emperor has no clothes.

    The Surface Book and Surface Pro lines have been so successful that Microsoft is kinda cool once again. So, in this monumental moment, if Microsoft has ANY decent phone for sale that will work on the dominant carriers like Verizon, the fanboys may finally be willing to take a serious look at an MS phone.

    So, what great alternative is Microsoft offering these longtime ifanboys to seal the deal? The answer: "You can buy a really nice Samsung Android phone that will tide you over until the SurfacePhone comes out next spring (which it may or may not do)."

    MS has completely dropped the ball. It reminds me of when Apple came out with the iPad, and the hardware partners were wondering, "what OS can we put on a tablet and try to compete with the iPad?" Since MS had no serious touch-based OS, the hardware partners had to turn to Android, which at the time was a touch-based phone OS that was not ideal but could be tweaked to work on a tablet. And to this day, Android remains the dominant OS in the tablet market.

    Sadly, MS has once again missed an incredible opportunity by failing to have any serious phone available at a key moment. My ifanboy friends will likely end up with a Samsung (as I had to when Verizon didn't carry the 950).

    This was a missed opportunity that will come back to haunt MS.
    Well, even if MS doesn't release a phone or something, it would be good if they at least create some sort of 'hype' for it, maybe tease about the phone after they unveil the Surface All-in-One?

    I believe that taking time to release a properly good product is good, but without consumers knowing anything about it (or not 'hyped' about it), once the product launches, absolutely no one would buy it since no one knows about it :/
    melhiore likes this.
    09-09-2016 12:07 AM
  20. ytrewq's Avatar
    Well, even if MS doesn't release a phone or something, it would be good if they at least create some sort of 'hype' for it, maybe tease about the phone after they unveil the Surface All-in-One?

    I believe that taking time to release a properly good product is good, but without consumers knowing anything about it (or not 'hyped' about it), once the product launches, absolutely no one would buy it since no one knows about it :/
    Fair enough. If MS had a product announcement, or even ran a few cool ad teasers about something mysterious but amazing coming out in spring 2017, you might get some of these disgruntled iPhone users to hold on another six months and see what the Surface Phone looks like before deciding on their next phone. But remaining silent with no meaningful product in the market and no meaningful market share guarantees that the unhappy iPhone users will simply buy a Samsung/Motorola.
    09-09-2016 01:17 AM
  21. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    This is interesting. I have a bunch of iPhone users around me who like the new iPhone. Some are very fervent Apple supporters as well.

    However, MS is in no position to attract anyone, let alone iPhone users. The minute users had any issues with using apps they are used to they'd leave in a blink of an eye. Why? Because most people are used to what they're used to.

    If anyone leaves Apple for any other OS it will have to meet they same standards that they're used to. I've read many stories of Apple fans leaving for Android and even trying WP then returning to an iPhone simply because they can't get the same experience.

    Regardless how you feel about Apple or Android they have their pluses. So unless you're just keen on MS products and fine with things they way they are, you're probably not going to go for a MS product at this point in time. That may change in a year or two but not now.

    The mobile market is a bit flat at the moment and the consumer mindset has changed drastically in the last couple of years.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 09-10-2016 at 12:49 PM.
    09-09-2016 01:33 AM
  22. Tamoor Arshad's Avatar
    I am a Apple fan, tried Android and hated it.
    09-09-2016 03:50 AM
  23. DKD116's Avatar
    The new iPhone might be appealing to a lot of people, but many will lose their dongles, or not keep them in their pockets, and will be stuck with a disabled phone when wanting to listen to music (In the car, on a stereo, with other headphones). They will also not be able to charge the phone when listening to music with a dongle.
    Danobe likes this.
    09-09-2016 03:50 AM
  24. Jcmg62's Avatar
    The iPhone 7 may be the most uninspired device to spring forth from the loins of Jony Ive, but that doesn't mean the Apple fan base won't buy it.

    It's a safe bet to say that the thing will still sell by the tens of millions.

    And even with a rubbish iPhone and a Samsung device that goes the extra mile to keep your hands warm, there's literally nothing that Microsoft can throw into the ring to try and disrupt the market.

    Even if, and this is a huge if, Microsoft announce the most awe inspiring, technologically advanced, drool worthy, eye candy of a Surface Phone in the next 30 - 60 days it's still going to be running a somewhat incomplete OS and have next to zero app developer support.

    I've been saying this since adopting the Windows Phone OS back in early 2010....Microsoft need Apps. Ballmer's "developers, developers, developers!" outburst might have seemed insane, but the guy was 100% right.

    All Microsoft can do is continue to refine/enhance the OS and occasionally bring out a decent phone (or better yet, get an OEM to do it).

    There is no magic bullet for this. Hell, some of us here have been waiting for 6 years for the magic to happen. That's several lifetimes in the world of tech and we're still waiting.

    I'm pretty certain that neither Apple nor Android is going to be the architect of their own downfall. Apple will sell enough 7's to slow the sales decline. They'll launch the iPhone 8 in twelve months time. It'll look a bit different and have some basic hardware updates and the whole world will light up like a Christmas tree.

    Samsung will ensure that every single Galaxy Note 7 that's been sold is replaced for free. It'll cost them Billions but they'll take the hit and will benefit massively from the publicity as the company that cares enough to lose money in order to keep their customers safe and happy. They'll look like corporate gods.

    As for Microsoft, they'll just keep swimming and see where the river takes them
    09-09-2016 07:57 AM
  25. Witness's Avatar
    There won't be many leaving the system. Apple has a cult-like following. There might be a lot of them wait for the iPhone 8, though.
    This. I heard many moans around me as well. To that, I know they aren't going anywhere, anyways. They'll just hang onto their current iPhone. I still know some folks toting around iPhone 4s/5. I still have my iPhone 6 128GB and was considering the 7+ just to play with because of the twin cameras, but the lack of a headphone jack was enough to give me pause. Not that I use a corded headphone all the time, but because it's another one of Apple's big middle finger to users and the industry, like they're the one calling the shots on what should be the standard.
    09-09-2016 11:06 AM
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