04-04-2017 11:37 PM
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  1. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Suure. A smart phone with a bit of improved "Surface" features is "creating a new category".

    Seriously, I would love a Surface phone, but to claim that "specs doesn't matter" is obviously not true - and that was part of the Apple-esque argument. It does matter.
    Specs will always matter, everyone agrees with that, but the question regarding specs is if it's specs that drive sales. I would agree that it probably isn't, seeing the specs of the Surface Studio (minus the screen). So from that standpoint the argument isn't Apple-esque, because it's really about something else.

    And it seems to me at least that MS is actually trying to develop the mobile experience, contrary to Apple (these days). I too could see how a successor to the 950 would make sense. A better continuum experience makes total sense to me. Some have questioned whether we'll have these "dumb terminals" in abundance so that we can hook up our phones to them, but I think that actually makes sense. The first step is connecting to already existing "smart" devices such as TVs etc, and the next step is the consumer considering buying a cheaper device that is "dumb" because we already carry our phones with us almost all the time anyway so hooking up to a different display/input device(s) makes sense.

    So really the question to me is exactly what MS can bring to the device experience beyond that. Hopefully the W10M will continue to develop, HP will sell X3's with peripherals to their target market and get well received, and that will lay a foundation for a new nice reception of an MS phone next year.

    I think the smartest thing MS can do is aim for the niche. Forget competing with iOS and Android. I think that's the way in.
    12-01-2016 09:46 AM
  2. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    Suure. A smart phone with a bit of improved "Surface" features is "creating a new category".
    You don't know what features are going to be on the Surface Mobile. That's precisely what makes the Surface team's work so exciting and worthwhile.

    No one anticipated the canvas ability of the Surface Studio. And it created a new category within the All-In-One PC space. No one anticipated the functionality of the Surface Dial. No one anticipated the ways that Microsoft would reinvent the convertible laptop with the Surface Book. This is all new and category defining stuff.

    Panay, Myers, and Nadella have made it clear that they're seeking to do the same thing with the Surface Mobile. I'm not making this up.
    Guytronic and aximtreo like this.
    12-01-2016 10:30 AM
  3. Danobe's Avatar
    You don't know what features are going to be on the Surface Mobile.
    As I said: Specs do matter. Saying they don't is just not ture.
    12-01-2016 11:42 AM
  4. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    As I said: Specs do matter. Saying they don't is just not ture.
    Literally no one in this thread has said that specs do not matter. What I said is that the Surface Mobile will not be about specs. It will be about something far more innovative than the quality of the display or the processor. We do not know what specs the Surface Mobile will have. See the original quote below.

    A Surface device won't be about specs. Just like the Surface Studio, and Surface Book are not about specs. It's about creating a new category. I don't know what specs the Surface Mobile device will have. But I do know it'll be something creative and category defining.
    Guytronic and aximtreo like this.
    12-01-2016 11:50 AM
  5. theefman's Avatar
    Without the apps and functionality people use and expect today, and will be even more dependent on in the future, the mythical Surface Phone even if powered by twin nuclear turbines wont make a jot of difference.
    Gunbust3r likes this.
    12-01-2016 12:07 PM
  6. Danobe's Avatar
    Literally no one in this thread has said that specs do not matter.
    A Surface device won't be about specs.
    And, funnily enough, that's the same sort of beginning of the quote you quoted yourself on:

    Just like the Surface Studio, and Surface Book are not about specs. It's about creating a new category. I don't know what specs the Surface Mobile device will have. But I do know it'll be something creative and category defining.
    12-01-2016 01:48 PM
  7. petvas72's Avatar
    Without the apps and functionality people use and expect today, and will be even more dependent on in the future, the mythical Surface Phone even if powered by twin nuclear turbines wont make a jot of difference.
    I agree, unless of course Microsoft makes it possible to offer us a feature that will make us go wow. I am not sure what this could be, but I will be waiting for it..
    12-01-2016 02:06 PM
  8. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    And, funnily enough, that's the same sort of beginning of the quote you quoted yourself on:
    Vittorio Vaselli likes this.
    12-01-2016 02:07 PM
  9. MDK22's Avatar
    OK, I saw the same article quoted in a National Tech magazine today, eWeek.

    I believe there is some truth to what has been written & YES, specs do matter ...
    BUT, even more, performance matters.
    Some over blown Android spec'd devices do NOT perform & Apple has just recently jumped into the specs battle.

    The rumor is, the Surface Mobile Device (no longer phones) will run x86 apps.
    They're also talking 64bit Windows Mobile.
    That's BIG.

    IF, this does come to pass, that could be defining.
    Forget your laptop, it's all on / in your phone (or the cloud).

    ... and IF this is targeted for release in about a year, those specs will (still) be good ...
    Good enough to perform the task @ hand.
    mtf1380 likes this.
    12-01-2016 04:18 PM
  10. JaimitoFrog's Avatar
    Certainly if anything, it will be released with RS3 or later. And judging by all the new Surface devices that were made over the years, it will be more than just a phone running W10m or continuum. It won't be just a better spec Elite x3. If they don't wow us, it won't do anything to their mobile market share. The rumors of curved glass, multiple screens, or hologram stuff might be cool. Hopefully they will have something before 2018.
    Indistinguishable likes this.
    12-05-2016 04:08 PM
  11. Kot Prada's Avatar
    Suure. A smart phone with a bit of improved "Surface" features is "creating a new category".

    Seriously, I would love a Surface phone, but to claim that "specs doesn't matter" is obviously not true - and that was part of the Apple-esque argument. It does matter.
    Actually, specs matter only for **** like Android. It's like making bigger and bigger engine for a car with square wheels.

    For iOS and Windows mobile specs isn't the main point.
    12-10-2016 07:12 AM
  12. Danobe's Avatar
    Actually, specs matter only for **** like Android. It's like making bigger and bigger engine for a car with square wheels.
    So specs doesn't matter according to you.

    Yet the very next sentence reads:

    For iOS and Windows mobile specs isn't the main point.
    So it still matters according to you.

    Just because, say, performance, inclusions, and fuel economy may not be the "main points" of getting a car, it still matters. Especially when you're attempting to sell it to the public.
    12-10-2016 09:21 AM
  13. Kot Prada's Avatar
    Just because, say, performance, inclusions, and fuel economy may not be the "main points" of getting a car, it still matters. Especially when you're attempting to sell it to the public.
    "Performance" and "Specs" isn't the same.
    12-14-2016 04:41 AM
  14. Danobe's Avatar
    "Performance" and "Specs" isn't the same.
    No, but poor specs will make performance poor. Specs are the prerequisite for performance.
    12-14-2016 08:24 AM
  15. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Jeez... nobody's saying it'll have poor specs. Read what people write and read between the lines.

    The whole point people were making was that the surface phone, should it appear, won't be about top-of-the-line specs, but about performance that's good enough to execute what it will be about, which is something other than pure performance.
    Indistinguishable likes this.
    12-14-2016 08:17 PM
  16. Danobe's Avatar
    Jeez... nobody's saying it'll have poor specs. Read what people write and read between the lines.
    I did. People are saying "specs don't matter"

    The whole point people were making was that the surface phone, should it appear, won't be about top-of-the-line specs, but about performance that's good enough to execute what it will be about, which is something other than pure performance.
    And again, if priced as I expect a surface phone to be priced (i.e. high), people will look at the specs too. And the better specs it has, the better it will perform. Especially since people are talking about it running x86 apps via emulation. If "specs don't matter" there, I don't know when.
    12-15-2016 10:42 AM
  17. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    I did. People are saying "specs don't matter"
    No, you're not reading between the lines and understanding what people are saying. The way you are characterizing what they say you imply they would think it'd be ok with a single-core CPU from 2005 with 512MB memory and a 2MP camera to run a full Windows 10 etc. That's not the gist of what people are saying. I can't quite figure out if you're just trying to argue something for the sake of killing time or if you really don't see the nuance in what they're saying.

    And again, if priced as I expect a surface phone to be priced (i.e. high), people will look at the specs too. And the better specs it has, the better it will perform. Especially since people are talking about it running x86 apps via emulation. If "specs don't matter" there, I don't know when.
    Yes, they will look at specs as well, but the point was that whereas someone might look at an Android phone, or an iPhone, and look at its specs and based on that determine to upgrade their phone to the latest and greatest, the actual selling point of a "Surface Phone" won't be the specs, because the user can get that on Android and iPhone. Instead the selling point - the factor to win people over and make them invest in it - is the OS and other features.

    I'll just take myself as an example, not to say that everyone is like me, but just to illustrate the principle:

    When I bought my Lumia 950 I'd had an Android phone for a long time. It got buggy, slow and unreliable and only received two updates over its lifetime, and later than competing devices. So I didn't like the company (LG) and I wasn't in love with Android. So if I was looking purely at specs as a selling point, even the selling point, then I would no doubt have bought an Android phone seeing that I'd get great specs at a great price. But for me part of switching was the Windows Mobile UI and the fact that I have PCs at home, not Apple products. So, setting specs aside was logical. The only extent to which specs mattered was if the phone was able to perform the functions I really wanted - i.e. the UI, continuum, etc. And it did.

    GUI, Continuum, OneDrive/OneNote integration, Groove Music etc, all MS features, was the selling point for me, not specs.

    Similarly, "we" are saying that a future Surface Phone will not sell based on specs alone, which is to say specs won't be the selling point. Instead, the selling point will be something else that is related to the experience.


    PS: Another way to look at it is if an app or feature really benefits from better specs, and if the increase is worth the added cost. IF a Surface Phone runs W10Mobile, then I would again argue there's a case to make for that OS running smoother on a lesser CPU than the competition, as far as I can see. So, if my user experience is X, then why would I pay more for X if I don't have to?
    Kot Prada likes this.
    12-15-2016 11:08 AM
  18. Danobe's Avatar
    And with that block of text, you're not saying anything new. You ask me to read between the lines, yet you fail to understand what I say. Good work.

    I also like how you ignore that people will actually look at specs before buying. Take the Elite X3, of course people looked at specs before handing over money. It's not like everyone uses Windows phones and just buy whatever is served.

    Take the surface books and surface tablets: People look at specs. Do all people who looks at the spec sheet absolutely NEED every last bit of power from their new gadget? Of course not. But specs is part of determining whether something is worth the cost. And people will with a surface phone look at specs to determine that ratio. Especially considering that it will likely be high-priced, and something new in the mobile sector - and it will be a mobile phone, and compared to other mobile phones.

    They will also look at the specs to determine if it makes up for MS being so haphazard with their mobile strategy, and whether that is worth the price. Specs is an important parameter for almost everyone, except the most die-hard brand fanatics (i.e. die-hard iPhone users, for instance), and even then, it still matters.
    12-15-2016 11:24 AM
  19. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    And with that block of text, you're not saying anything new. You ask me to read between the lines, yet you fail to understand what I say. Good work.
    Thank you.

    I also like how you ignore that people will actually look at specs before buying. Take the Elite X3, of course people looked at specs before handing over money.
    People propose that the Surface Phone won't be like the Elite X3, or any other phone, conceptually. That's the whole point!
    12-15-2016 11:36 AM
  20. camaroz1985's Avatar
    I must be getting old because I can't stand to read another argument about specs...
    12-15-2016 01:56 PM
  21. bambuco's Avatar
    I'm very excited with any news on a potential Surface Phone... but then I feel heartbroken given how long it'll be before we see anything tangible on an availability date. Its great to see HP take a lead on creating an all-in-one mobile device... but given how amazing all the MS Surface devices are, its just incredibly gut-wrenching to wait until 2018 for a legit Surface Phone!!
    I just need some reassurance they can get full windows program to work and multi windows in CONTINUUM... that's a dealbreaker IMHO.
    Kot Prada likes this.
    12-19-2016 02:23 PM
  22. darius_robin's Avatar
    It is rumored for a September 2017 release.
    Kot Prada and Tim-ANC like this.
    12-22-2016 02:37 AM
  23. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    It is rumored for a September 2017 release.
    Might be perfect timing for me. Gives me 9 months to process the stages of grief about BB10. I am anticipating a long and painful breakup with my Passport.
    01-01-2017 07:04 AM
  24. JaimitoFrog's Avatar
    Probably about right, with RS3 and foldable screens from LG and Samsung being released then according to latest rumors.
    01-12-2017 05:23 PM
  25. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    The smartest thing to do in my opinion would be for MS to come out with new Lumias that are slightly updated, meaning not 'category-defying', and just give the market more options in the short term.
    MDK22, Player Piano and rasputin01 like this.
    01-14-2017 07:36 PM
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