Surface Phone in late 2017?

[Joe920]

The smartest thing to do in my opinion would be for MS to come out with new Lumias that are slightly updated, meaning not 'category-defying', and just give the market more options in the short term.

Slightly updated and vastly reduced in price, until the Surface Phone takes over.

 

[Favio Corral]

Make the surface phone happen , a chance to solidify your universal platform and bring all your pieces together to offer a universal solution (Mobile, Xbox, Surface, Onedrive, Band, Cortana,Edge, Continuum, Groove, Skype, LinkedIn, Win10) , you have a strong hand , don't waste it chasing individual "butterflies", grow your garden and the "butterflies" will come.

 

[aj173]

I want the Surface Phone as much as the next guy, but I think we have to temper our enthusiasm with a little bit of reality. As cool as running full Windows 10 on a phone would be, it's not going to materially change Microsoft's problem with it's mobile platform, which is apps. Most of the apps that people want aren't available on the full PC version anyways, and that's not going to change by adding the miniscule demand of a few hardcore Surface Phone enthusiasts, so I don't see how W10 on ARM is going to be the savior that people are predicting. After the initial excitement of running full Windows software on your phone wears off, you're going to be stuck with the reality that most software that people want on their phone still does not exist on the platform.

You're telling me that I can run CAD software if I'm sitting at my desk with my phone plugged into a dock and monitor? That's very impressive. Now what about the other 95% of the time when I'm using my phone in everyday life? Putting a massive increase in mobile computing power into the pocket of average users does nothing for them when they just wanted Snapchat and the ability to deposit checks into their bank account like you can on every other smartphone in the world.

I'm a huge fan of W10, and I still own a 1520 and 950XL, but the already poor ecosystem is getting so barren that I almost bought a Note 7 recently and was willing to risk the explosion just to finally have a usable stylus and the basic smartphone functionality that the rest of the world has enjoyed for a decade. I'm all for "creating a new category", but if it adds no practical value to the device and still doesn't address the main problem with the platform, then why bother?

I'm a sucker, so I'll probably buy a Surface Phone if it ever happens (and that's a big IF). However, the whole endeavor seems kind of pointless, and it's hard to get excited for it when the last three Windows Phones that I got excited for either never materialized or were disappointing final products.

 

[mattiasnyc]

As cool as running full Windows 10 on a phone would be, it's not going to materially change Microsoft's problem with it's mobile platform, which is apps. Most of the apps that people want aren't available on the full PC version anyways, and that's not going to change by adding the miniscule demand of a few hardcore Surface Phone enthusiasts, so I don't see how W10 on ARM is going to be the savior that people are predicting. After the initial excitement of running full Windows software on your phone wears off, you're going to be stuck with the reality that most software that people want on their phone still does not exist on the platform.

You're telling me that I can run CAD software if I'm sitting at my desk with my phone plugged into a dock and monitor? That's very impressive. Now what about the other 95% of the time when I'm using my phone in everyday life? Putting a massive increase in mobile computing power into the pocket of average users does nothing for them when they just wanted Snapchat and the ability to deposit checks into their bank account like you can on every other smartphone in the world.

I think that misses a few things though, things that I think MS is envisioning.

- The underlying OS is changing and with it so does the effects of development. In other words, whereas a few years ago developing for mobile was a completely different thing from developing for desktop it is now very similar if using UWP, and that will converge further. So this means that writing a new piece of software for Windows 10 UWP is making it available on all platforms. In other words anyone developing for "desktop" will benefit those running mobile.

- It won't be the demand from Surface Phone users that drive development of UWP apps but instead computer users in general. It seems to me that MS is trying to put together a computing experience that is similar across devices, and so at some point when you're developing for one thing you'll develop for another. So any user of a Windows 10 computer, not phone, will eventually start to want UWP apps simply because of their qualities and their ability to move across devices. It won't matter if the person has a Surface Phone or not, if they're using Windows 10 they'll want this functionality. I

- I also understand that running CAD in 3d won't really be what most people want, they want smaller apps instead. But I think the truth is that a lot of us interact with actual computers, ranging from laptops to desktops to tablet-format computers, almost every day. So, since we do, there's a reason for why we do it. It can be anything from wanting to read news online but on something larger than a 5 inch screen. Or watching film and TV. Doing actual banking and other things. Running software for personal finance. We use computers all the time. So I think what MS is seeing is a future where there's simply no point in having a chunky desktop (unless you're a gamer) for most of this, and instead we want a large screen, a keyboard and a mouse. That 'box' is not what we want, we want the input-output devices. So, in that context, continuum made perfect sense. Of course the number of apps is limited, and that's why "reverse-continuum" makes sense. Now you don't have to worry about whatever app there is you're using on the desktop/laptop, which many people are using, it will simply run on your phone. So I think the demand will be there, and I think MS is smart in that they're trying to converge their assets to stay ahead of the curve.

So to expand on that the point is simply that creators of apps see little value in developing for W10Mobile because of the small market share, but that all goes away as an argument as soon as W10 on ARM is a reality. Then they're not just targeting mobile, but all computing formats. That's a vastly different proposition.

Think about it this way: Don't users like getting their SMS etc popping up on the desktop instead of only their phones? Isn't it convenient that one can shove the phone in a dock or charger in one room, sit down and to accounting or whatever and any messages or calls pop up on the desktop? Well why wouldn't that expand to other apps?.....

So I think that in the end MS' approach is logical and promising. I for sure can see a future where my connected experience is just that, an experience in connection, not fiddling with the one device. I see a future where I can forget my phone at home and just use an iris scan at a terminal at work and get exactly the same experience with a different form factor, complete with the relevant data pulled from the cloud. The "phone" is really just another device to access an experience that scales across "sizes". And with that apps will follow.


PS: There's also the notion that we'll leave software and apps in favor of AI and bots. That too will change usage drastically.

 

[aj173]

I actually agree with you about UWP. I'm happy to see Windows OS convergence and have been dreaming of it since the PDAs of the late 90s. However, the problem is that UWP isn't going to drive the development of phone-centric apps, which includes most of the popular apps that people use on their phones. Take Snapchat as the archetypal example. Being able to make it a UWP app does nothing to encourage development, because even with UWP, you're still essentially developing a phone app. Yes, sure, you could take selfies with your PC's camera. But we all know that's not how the majority of users actually use the app. UWP would be the magic bullet if there was a massive demand for desktop software on smartphones, but as it stands, most smartphone users want to be able to run smartphone software on their smartphones.

Also, the migration to AI and bots is still a ways off, and there will be functions that cannot and will not ever be completely replaced with bots. Habits will evolve and change, but apps aren't going anywhere.

 

[savagelizards]

Here's why specs do matter. Because it's been more than 3 years since Verizon released a flagship Windows device. My Icon is really long in the tooth and if it didn't have the best specs available when it was released, it wouldn't be able to run Windows 10 mobile and I would be rocking an iPhone, even though I don't want that (or I would already have it).

Until we start seeing a steady stream of devices out of the Surface Team, I can't compromise on specs. I need something that can still be reliable in 2020.

The worst bit of all this is that I might scrape by (God willing) with my Icon for another eight months only to find out that Surface Phone is real but only supports ATT and T Mobile. Ugggh.

 

[aj173]

Nobody's saying that specs don't matter. Obviously they're not going to release a phone with three-year-old specs and an old OS. But that aside, Verizon is never going to get another Windows Phone. The CDMA carriers are difficult to work with. It's a pain to get devices approved for use on their networks, they usually demand proprietary software, and then even after that, the carrier stores will bury the new Windows Phone in the back with the flip phones and continue to push everybody toward the iPhone or Galaxy. The direct-to-consumer unlocked GSM model is going to be the sales model going forward, so if you want a new Windows device, it probably won't happen on Verizon or Sprint. I've tried both carriers and am glad to be away from them, for different reasons.

Also, forget about a "steady stream of devices" out of the Surface team. We need one device before this discussion even becomes relevant. Rumors about the Surface Phone coming "next year" have been circulating since 2014. We're now in Q1 2017 and the mythical Surface Phone still only exists in our dreams and in clickbait fake news. There's a good chance that this device isn't even on Microsoft's radar.

 

[adderall93]

Anyone think this phone will be the saviour?

 

[aj173]

Not only is it not going to be the savior, but I'm convinced that it isn't even under development. After not hearing anything in October or during MWC to suggest that this phone is actually being developed, I'm going to consider the whole concept nonexistent until we get an announcement from MS. For years, we've been waiting for any information to come at the next big event. And year after year, event after event, it's just silence.

Everybody has interpreted the Windows-10-on-ARM announcement as some confirmation that Surface Phone is being developed. I interpreted it more as confirmation that Microsoft wants to push fully-featured Windows PCs and tablets with cellular data and high battery efficiency. Where everybody else is hearing "Surface Phone", I'm hearing "$400 cellular laptop with ARM processor".

I would love a Surface Phone type of device, and I'd love it more if it had a 6" screen and a stylus. But realistically, I'm not expecting anything like this to happen any time soon, if it ever happens at all. I don't think HP would be refreshing the Elite x3 already if the Surface Phone was on the horizon. It seems that HP is positioning itself to fill the mobile niche vacated by Microsoft. I hope I'm wrong, but there's nothing at all to indicate that I am.

 

[FXi2]

Here's why specs do matter. Because it's been more than 3 years since Verizon released a flagship Windows device. My Icon is really long in the tooth and if it didn't have the best specs available when it was released, it wouldn't be able to run Windows 10 mobile and I would be rocking an iPhone, even though I don't want that (or I would already have it).

Until we start seeing a steady stream of devices out of the Surface Team, I can't compromise on specs. I need something that can still be reliable in 2020.

The worst bit of all this is that I might scrape by (God willing) with my Icon for another eight months only to find out that Surface Phone is real but only supports ATT and T Mobile. Ugggh.

You spoke my mind or most of it. Icon as well. And an older HTC 8x that is clinging barely to life. Come Sep or sooner the decision point will likely have to be made. There are many trade off's in all the choices, but if MS never shows up with a device what are we going to put up against something like an S8+ vs iPhone 8 battle? If Win mobile is all GSM the stretch is even further. It's not an easy thing to weigh out. But maybe the choice will be easy and MS won't even show up in the ring. We'll see.