10-15-2015 01:57 AM
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  1. icedavid's Avatar
    Exactly how do you Skype with others when they cannot see your face. The demo is misguiding at this point. Hololens sees what you see. You cannot see your own face unless standing in front of a mirror. Skype with a door seems funny, isn't it?
    01-26-2015 06:03 PM
  2. ven07's Avatar
    Kissing using Hololens? nah
    01-26-2015 06:15 PM
  3. JamesDax's Avatar
    smdh at another stupid post.
    01-26-2015 07:13 PM
  4. rhapdog's Avatar
    In one video demo, they show a skype conversation where the person using a tablet is annotating what the hololens wearer is seeing, like drawing arrows to the nuts on the pipe when working on that sink.

    It's not the same use for skype, for for assistance and guidance where the other user needs to be able to help you with a hands-on situation, it would be quite beneficial. Imagine, as a computer geek but not too much of a car mechanic, you're broken down on the road, and call a mechanic for help. You put on the Hololens and the mechanic with his SP3 will guide you through the troubleshooting and repair of the vehicle, helping you to see what you need to see and fix what you need to fix.

    Why does someone have to see you're face when skyping? If you're going to be calling your girlfriend/boyfriend and making silly faces, don't use hololens. If you're needing help with a repair, or performing emergency baby delivery in the back of a cab, then the hololens will come in pretty darn handy.
    JamesDax, danz14 and jmshub like this.
    01-26-2015 08:35 PM
  5. sl#WP's Avatar
    You don't doubt if you think about it this way:

    When you Skype someone, you see what his camera see, he sees what your camera see. In the case of the demo, The girl on HoloLens sees the other person's face because his camera is in front of the tablet. The guy can't see the girl's face, but he sees things in front of her, because her camera is on her head. If the guy really want to see her face, she can get a mirror. If the two both are on HoloLens, they both get a mirror. If you think that's a problem then it is.
    danz14 likes this.
    01-27-2015 09:58 AM
  6. iXesh's Avatar
    Go in front of mirror!
    danz14 and taymur like this.
    01-27-2015 12:00 PM
  7. rhapdog's Avatar
    You don't doubt if you think about it this way:

    When you Skype someone, you see what his camera see, he sees what your camera see. In the case of the demo, The girl on HoloLens sees the other person's face because his camera is in front of the tablet. The guy can't see the girl's face, but he sees things in front of her, because her camera is on her head. If the guy really want to see her face, she can get a mirror. If the two both are on HoloLens, they both get a mirror. If you think that's a problem then it is.
    Yeah, a mirror. Then they can see how silly you look wearing that contraption on your head. Haha!

    Seriously, I think people who will be able to afford Hololens will probably do "face-to-face" skyping on something other than Hololens, and use Hololens for skyping when they are needing assistance.

    Think of it like this, there is a feature on Windows computers called "Remote Assistance", where someone in support can get permission to remotely use your desktop in order to assist you in troubleshooting, because it's impossible to see what you see over a phone call. That makes good use of a technology for remote assistance. Hololens will expand this out from computer assistance, and help you get assistance on other things. Perhaps you can skype your own personal chef, who will then step you through using what you have in your kitchen to prepare a great meal.
    JamesDax and jmshub like this.
    01-28-2015 12:00 PM
  8. JamesDax's Avatar
    Yeah, a mirror. Then they can see how silly you look wearing that contraption on your head. Haha!
    I agree that using a mirror is unlikely. That said the hololens could erase the image of it's self from your face while on the skype call. Also, I'm still thinking, and I could be wrong on this, that the hololens could project a mirror in front of you to use for face to face skype calls. The remote assistance scenario is the most likely use for skype on the hololens however.
    01-28-2015 01:02 PM
  9. sl#WP's Avatar
    "could project a mirror in front of you" - that is a massively interesting idea. Even though for Skype call, the mirror doesn't have to be visible, Kinect has the image of everything in the room, including the person who is wearing the device. So, its not a problem. HoloLens can make a Skype call just like normal, even better it can show a 3D of the other person. People need to understand, the Kinect camera sees everything in the 3D space, not just the objects in front it.

    However, the concept is bigger than that. This means the virtual objects recognize the real objects, and can interact with real objects. For example, a virtual person walk on your coffee table and play with your remote, he can't do anything about, but the face he can recognize it is very interesting.
    JamesDax likes this.
    01-28-2015 04:03 PM
  10. anon(9057135)'s Avatar
    Exactly how do you Skype with others when they cannot see your face. The demo is misguiding at this point. Hololens sees what you see. You cannot see your own face unless standing in front of a mirror. Skype with a door seems funny, isn't it?
    Aren't you forgetting that you don't have to video chat on Skype?
    01-28-2015 05:06 PM
  11. AdamInTx's Avatar
    Even though for Skype call, the mirror doesn't have to be visible, Kinect has the image of everything in the room, including the person who is wearing the device. So, its not a problem. HoloLens can make a Skype call just like normal, even better it can show a 3D of the other person. People need to understand, the Kinect camera sees everything in the 3D space, not just the objects in front it.
    I don't know what kind of magic kinect you have but the one I have only sees items in front of it, and even then only in a cone in front of it, go too far to the left or right and it loses you. The kinect does not see "everything in the 3D space". They said this is a stand alone device so there will not be kinect cameras around the room to watch everything, there is no camera that will be looking at the user. It is not possible for the halolens to show the other user the face of the halolens user. Additionally the halolens cannot show the user a 3d model of the other person unless that person is using some sort of 3d camera system. A kinect or webcam cannot send a realtime 3d model of the person to the halolens.

    Now, what the halolens does do is remember where things are in the room, that way when you pin something to the wall or put it on a desk it remembers where that item needs to go so if you put something on a table and then turn around it shows it on the table when you turn back around to face the table. Or if you put a video on the wall like in the demo it will stay in the same spot while you move about the room. At no time is the halolens making some sort of 3d image of your room. It is simply recognizing locations in the room and their relation to other locations so it can put things in the correct place when you move.
    Last edited by AdamInTx; 01-28-2015 at 05:48 PM.
    01-28-2015 05:29 PM
  12. AdamInTx's Avatar
    Also, I'm still thinking, and I could be wrong on this, that the hololens could project a mirror in front of you to use for face to face skype calls.
    No it can't. The halolens isn't projecting anything on your walls/floor/table/etc... it is projecting it onto the halolens device which sits in front of your eyes and makes it look like an item is on the wall/table/floor/etc.... If it was to place a mirror in front of you it would actually be a tiny virtual mirror on the lens of the device. If that little mirror could somehow actually reflect (which it cannot as its just an image on a screen) it would just reflect what was in front of it which would be one, possibly both, of your eyes and maybe part of your nose.
    Ragav suriya likes this.
    01-28-2015 05:35 PM
  13. NikolausD's Avatar
    What is there to doubt? Skype for HoloLens, as demoed to the press, is designed specifically for scenarios where one person is assisting another person who is wearing a HoloLens.

    Face-to-face chat in AR on the other hand would require 1) smaller, more transparent glasses (so you can see each other's eyes) and 2) external depth/video cameras to create "holographic" representations of the users (similar to the "hologram" of terry myerson that was shown at the press event). I could imagine that at some point in the future you'll just to put 2 of those cameras in front of you in a way that they record visul and depth information from most of your face and body, so you can skype with another user who uses a similar setup, both are wearing small transparent AR glasses which will make it look like the other person is sitting right across from you. That would be a kind of thing you would do mainly at home or at a workplace, because you need those external cameras. It would be a perfect addition to both conference calls and private video chatting.
    01-28-2015 05:44 PM
  14. JamesDax's Avatar
    No it can't. The halolens isn't projecting anything on your walls/floor/table/etc... it is projecting it onto the halolens device which sits in front of your eyes and makes it look like an item is on the wall/table/floor/etc.... If it was to place a mirror in front of you it would actually be a tiny virtual mirror on the lens of the device. If that little mirror could somehow actually reflect (which it cannot as its just an image on a screen) it would just reflect what was in front of it which would be one, possibly both, of your eyes and maybe part of your nose.
    And you are certain of this because?
    01-28-2015 05:54 PM
  15. AdamInTx's Avatar
    And you are certain of this because?
    Did you watch the videos? Did you see stuff popping up all over the room in the live demo? No, you didn't because only the person using the halolense can see anything. The production videos show the room full of stuff because they are advertisements, they are showing you what the person using the device is seeing. There is no projector component to the halolens, just a screen that sits in front of your eyes and makes it look like your room is filled with items.
    01-28-2015 06:00 PM
  16. sl#WP's Avatar
    I don't know what kind of magic kinect you have but the one I have only sees items in front of it, and even then only in a cone in front of it, go too far to the left or right and it loses you.
    There are something I know and something I don't. It is said the HoloLens maps the entire room, I take that as taking a 3D image of the whole room. Kinect certainly has the ability to do that. You said Kinect can't see the objects or part of objects that are out of sight (blocked). I don't know. If that's true, then all objects in the room has to be exposed to HoloLens, otherwise it won't be recognized. I will check that in the future. This is something I don't know. I tend to think it can, because Kinect use infrared to get depth information, so it maybe able to see object behind object. I don't mean see through, but reflection.
    01-28-2015 07:25 PM
  17. rhapdog's Avatar
    Hololens maps the room, yes. It does not create a "Holodeck" implementation of the room. Have you seen 3D mapping software? It doesn't image everything in 3D, it creates map data, giving coordinates to wall points, floor points, points on the couch, etc. Basically a 3D wireframe representation. It uses enough points to be able to know where all the "surfaces" are, but does not know what the actual surfaces look like. A large mirror on the wall will look just like a photo frame on the wall or an LED TV on the wall, as far as the device is concerned. It's not doing object recognition, at least not yet. It may can do certain types of object recognition from their shapes, but it is only concerned about knowing size, shape, and location of objects and surfaces in order to accurately "overlay" images.

    I saw all the demos, and have enough understanding of how the optical light technology that they use works to understand that. I'm not saying I understand the mechanics of how they implement it, because it is a secret that has not been disclosed and I am not privy to that info. However I understand the principles of the projection of the light into your eyes to create photonic images for you to perceive. I also understand what it means to "map" a 3D environment.
    01-29-2015 09:46 AM
  18. sl#WP's Avatar
    Hololens maps the room, yes. It does not create a "Holodeck" implementation of the room. Have you seen 3D mapping software? It doesn't image everything in 3D, it creates map data, giving coordinates to wall points, floor points, points on the couch, etc. Basically a 3D wireframe representation. It uses enough points to be able to know where all the "surfaces" are, but does not know what the actual surfaces look like. A large mirror on the wall will look just like a photo frame on the wall or an LED TV on the wall, as far as the device is concerned. It's not doing object recognition, at least not yet. It may can do certain types of object recognition from their shapes, but it is only concerned about knowing size, shape, and location of objects and surfaces in order to accurately "overlay" images.
    Just want to keep the conversation going, excuse me for that, because I have huge interest in it. Object recognition is another topic, I just fantasize its potential. Questions I am trying figure out are : 1. Does the HoloLens has a 3D image of the of room? 2. What happens to object that is blocked from HoloLens sight? We know that Kinect can do 3D scan, result is a 3D model, also surface info as well (RGB image). A person would look like a himself, not just a mesh model of the person. However I also realized when I read the article on the web, the person needed to be scanned from different angles. I know it is not 3D model in strict definition, because it doesn't have the internal skeleton structure of the person, but it doesn't matter. I think the only question is whether the objects behind objects can be seen by HoloLens.

    Lets say I am a developer, I am writing a game. A character has to walk along the table, but half way, it has to go through somewhere behind, say, a pensile case. Lets say there is something behind the pensile case, but right in way of the character. If HoloLens can't see those things that are blocked by the pensile case. So what I do? Basically I am facing an void, a unknown spot. If pulls the (x,y,z) at this spot, I get nothing. So best thing I can do is ignore it, keep going. If that's true, it can be an issue.

    Back to the mirror thing. A mirror is not meant to a virtual mirror, it is actually taking a picture from certain viewpoint. Lets say, I am coding the Skype app, I can take picture, or live video of the room from certain angle. If my assumption is not false, it can show the room from a different viewpoint than the Kinect camera, which in front of the person wearing HoloLens. The result is like placing a mirror in front the person, with Helmet on of course, as it is supposed to be.
    01-29-2015 11:57 AM
  19. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    Exactly how do you Skype with others when they cannot see your face. The demo is misguiding at this point. Hololens sees what you see. You cannot see your own face unless standing in front of a mirror. Skype with a door seems funny, isn't it?
    how about when you are on holiday and instead of sending a few camera stills home, you Skype home while looking over Niagara Fall for the first time, or during an early morning hot air balloon ride? It may not be super-flash for the Skype calls you make now but it will open the door to infinite new possibilities.

    In fact, for me, it might actually make me want to make Skype video calls. As it stands, I hate doing it. I don't want the people I'm talking to seeing me roll my eyes or sticking my fingers down my throat as they drone on aimlessly. I much prefer voice calls, thanks.
    03-12-2015 10:40 AM
  20. flicker0x7's Avatar
    how about when you are on holiday and instead of sending a few camera stills home, you Skype home while looking over Niagara Fall for the first time, or during an early morning hot air balloon ride? It may not be super-flash for the Skype calls you make now but it will open the door to infinite new possibilities.

    In fact, for me, it might actually make me want to make Skype video calls. As it stands, I hate doing it. I don't want the people I'm talking to seeing me roll my eyes or sticking my fingers down my throat as they drone on aimlessly. I much prefer voice calls, thanks.
    Yep, video calling can be used in many ways, it doesn't necessarily have to be a face-to-face conversation. Sharing what you see around you can be just as useful in some cases, just look at the popularity of the GoPro.
    03-19-2015 05:58 AM
  21. TASWinFan's Avatar
    I think that you wouldn't be doing converstations with skype but instead doing/ recieving instructions with hololens
    04-02-2015 10:38 PM
  22. Yazen's Avatar
    In one video demo, they show a skype conversation where the person using a tablet is annotating what the hololens wearer is seeing, like drawing arrows to the nuts on the pipe when working on that sink.

    It's not the same use for skype, for for assistance and guidance where the other user needs to be able to help you with a hands-on situation, it would be quite beneficial. Imagine, as a computer geek but not too much of a car mechanic, you're broken down on the road, and call a mechanic for help. You put on the Hololens and the mechanic with his SP3 will guide you through the troubleshooting and repair of the vehicle, helping you to see what you need to see and fix what you need to fix.

    Why does someone have to see you're face when skyping? If you're going to be calling your girlfriend/boyfriend and making silly faces, don't use hololens. If you're needing help with a repair, or performing emergency baby delivery in the back of a cab, then the hololens will come in pretty darn handy.
    1: You probably have no Skype friends :P
    2: You just described usages outside the demands of the average consumer. Since the HoloLens and Skype are supposed to be "in every home", I would expect Microsoft would need to do better...

    * HoloLens retail package will include a head mountable mirror XD
    04-07-2015 05:36 PM
  23. Yazen's Avatar
    Yep, video calling can be used in many ways, it doesn't necessarily have to be a face-to-face conversation. Sharing what you see around you can be just as useful in some cases, just look at the popularity of the GoPro.
    Said every Lumia 635 owner lol
    04-07-2015 05:37 PM
  24. anon(9057135)'s Avatar
    Exactly how do you Skype with others when they cannot see your face. The demo is misguiding at this point. Hololens sees what you see. You cannot see your own face unless standing in front of a mirror. Skype with a door seems funny, isn't it?
    You're aware you can voice chat right?
    04-07-2015 07:25 PM
  25. rhapdog's Avatar
    1: You probably have no Skype friends :P
    2: You just described usages outside the demands of the average consumer. Since the HoloLens and Skype are supposed to be "in every home", I would expect Microsoft would need to do better...

    * HoloLens retail package will include a head mountable mirror XD
    1: Rather an uneducated remark.
    2: No, I just described usages that aren't currently easily available or accessible, but something that could easily become a mainstream use in the future. Imagine you and your spouse moving to another country, you have to stay behind to work for a few more weeks while your spouse is house hunting in the new country you are about to make a move to. As she walks through houses, you can see what she sees and you can discuss it together. There are more uses for this than you can shake a stick at.

    * Why a mirror? So people can see the reflection of the Goggles? You still won't get a good picture of the face that way. Get over it.

    If you want face to face time with Skype, just do it with your phone or computer. You want to show the other person what you're doing, use HoloLens. Why is that so difficult for some people to understand? You want someone to see your golf game from your point of view? Use HoloLens. You want to livestream yourself getting beaten by a cop after you call him a few choice names and threaten his family? Use HoloLens connected to your phone's WiFi hotspot. Well, the cop will need to wear your HoloLens for that one. LOL. If you manage to get that one, save the video. I want ot see it, LOL. YES, I'M KIDDING.
    04-07-2015 08:49 PM
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