10-11-2014 10:32 AM
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  1. rdubmu's Avatar
    Most people have desktop PCs. Good thing Windows 10


    I can't wait to try the continuity feature on my SP3, currently with this release it isn't there...

    I always thought that MS should have merged the desktop and the W8 start screen. The start menu in W10 is so much better than W8. I just want the desktop to be the start screen of W8 :)
    10-02-2014 12:22 PM
  2. nasellok's Avatar
    Lets just be honest - All Microsoft wants to do is get the billion computers out there running XP and 7 to upgrade to 10 - charge 15$ for the upgrade (money for MS), offer increased performance, access to all the "store apps" (more money for MS). They are providing the familiar start menu, which is the biggest gripe all the holdouts - they need to give a reason to upgrade. They will get all the 8.1 enterprise hiccups cleared up, so businesses across the world can upgrade (more $ for MS). They see Macbooks flying off shelves, and are seeing mediocre sales of the surface tablets (I don't understand why, since my SP3 blows away any MacBook in every category imaginable (well, except for battery life). They know something must be done. If they can convince a vast majority of people to upgrade to 10, and really make a kick a$$ way of integrating Windows Phones - (Think Apple Continuity, only better)....even if they could switch 3-5% of iphone users to Windows Phone it would be a huge #. MS doesn't want all the people out there using Iphones and Android to not use PC's anymore. They have to establish their ecosystem, and do it better than the competition in a way that makes all the iphone toting people that use PC's (a lot of people) want to keep using their PC's, and not switch to OSX "to be in the apple ecosystem".
    JamesPTao and Karthik Naik like this.
    10-02-2014 01:26 PM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    ^^ You're assuming these billions of XP and 7 computers meet the minimum requirements to be able to upgrade. Windows 7, not so much. But many XP units lack the hardware to run 7, much less 8.
    10-02-2014 03:50 PM
  4. nasellok's Avatar
    My 6 year old Lenovo Thinkpad W500 with Core2 Duo processor and AMD graphics upgraded to 8.1 from XP (was actually a Vista downgrade) with no issues whatsoever. It is a 32-bit processor as well........sure, I guess, if your running Pentium 3 from 2005, you may not be able to upgrade.....but the whole point is, for 2-300$, you can get a basic PC or a Convertible running 10, that is similar to your old one.........instead of moving to OSX, or to having just a tablet.
    10-02-2014 04:16 PM
  5. Peter Lu's Avatar
    I think this is the story.
    iOS was so successful, so Microsoft tried to play catch up games.
    First, they released Windows 8 to catch up with mobile, but they have disappointed the desktop users. Windows 8 was so hard to use for a PC user.
    Then they realized that Windows 8 didn't win back the mobile market, and it has already started to push PC users into using MAC. No winning on the mobile market, and instead losing on their traditional PC market. No good.
    Then, Windows 10 comes to the rescue. PC is back. bye bye mobile, although they insisting on saying Window 10 will work on mobile.

    To Microsoft: Start building a dedicated mobile system and link it to the desktop system just like what Apple did, otherwise you are not gonna win.

    This is a sad story of playing catch up games.

    From an engineer & UX consultant
    10-02-2014 07:52 PM
  6. iamtim's Avatar
    Windows 8 was so hard to use for a PC user.
    *rolls eyes*
    10-02-2014 09:21 PM
  7. mjrtoo's Avatar
    I think this is the story.
    iOS was so successful, so Microsoft tried to play catch up games.
    First, they released Windows 8 to catch up with mobile, but they have disappointed the desktop users. Windows 8 was so hard to use for a PC user.
    Then they realized that Windows 8 didn't win back the mobile market, and it has already started to push PC users into using MAC. No winning on the mobile market, and instead losing on their traditional PC market. No good.
    Then, Windows 10 comes to the rescue. PC is back. bye bye mobile, although they insisting on saying Window 10 will work on mobile.

    To Microsoft: Start building a dedicated mobile system and link it to the desktop system just like what Apple did, otherwise you are not gonna win.

    This is a sad story of playing catch up games.

    From an engineer & UX consultant
    You know that windows 8 sold more.copies than there are mac users right?
    10-02-2014 09:37 PM
  8. trekgraham's Avatar
    A unified operating system is the way to go. Making a way to be able to go from PC to mobile to tablet is very important. Apple is surely working on this with incorporating iMessage into Mac OSX
    10-02-2014 09:58 PM
  9. rex.reyesiii's Avatar
    *rolls eyes*
    *rolls eyes*

    *am rolling eyes with you here...
    10-02-2014 10:00 PM
  10. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Since i was puzzled by the negative comments i went to install it on a virtual machine (here is procedure and links for those who want to do it How to install the Windows 10 Technical Preview in VMWare Player).
    Due to time constraints i won't be long but my opinion is as follows:
    A) The whole experience is "simplified".
    B) Things are where you expect to find them out of the box, like in the old W7
    C) The Start menu works for me. It has all the traditional items AND the chance to add tiles for the most used apps or for weather etc. Personally i'd add an option to make the tiled section STICKY and more customizable (alphabetic order for apps, grouping etc.). I'd call it "Pseudo-ModernUI mode". This will allow users who are unhappy about the traditional environment to still operate within the modern UI in a way. Anyway on hybrids and tablets that environment will be present. I don't like the fact that i can't add my own links in the start menu (they are now tiles though and it works fine for me).
    D) It's fast also on a VM. Very fast, very efficient and, to date, flawless. Everything works including Microsoft Updates (already got two).
    E) You can customize the start menu color and i find it very nice.
    F) No more double interface, double menus, double anything. You work in ONE interface with a bit of "Modern taste". No charms as promised. Touch interface is fast, very fast and very accurate. In short, it could be a beta too and people could use it (although many would be complaining for the missing options i don't see after just a few hours of usage)
    Below some pics for those who are curious:
    control-panel.jpg
    desktop.jpg
    file-explorer.jpg
    settings.jpg
    start-menu.jpg
    start-customized.jpg
    winupdate.jpg

    EDIT:
    Digging more into articles i found out the Metro UI is there in full (Article here:http://www.windowscentral.com/get-ba...een-windows-10)
    Here it is. You just need to change the options in the navigation menu.
    modern-ui-2.jpg
    modern-ui.jpg

    Honestly, can't imagine anything more flexible than this. And this is just a preview.

    I have suggested Microsoft some changes/optimizations through the dedicated channel. I'd recommend anyone willing to rant to also go rant there so there are higher chances that rants turn into something constructive out of the box.
    I have also suggested to allow for some tiles/widgets (News apps, weather, calendar, and a few others) to be addable as widgets on the desktop. This is because i may like or need to have multiple timezones showing in a comfortable place (I use a third party app at the moment and i am not fond of third party apps).

    What do you think? I am genuinely curious!
    Last edited by EC Translating Services; 10-03-2014 at 09:15 AM.
    10-02-2014 11:03 PM
  11. smoledman's Avatar
    It is disappointing to see that the Control Panel is not going any time soon. You would think that 3 years would be enough to port all those settings to Modern UI.
    10-02-2014 11:45 PM
  12. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    It is disappointing to see that the Control Panel is not going any time soon. You would think that 3 years would be enough to port all those settings to Modern UI.
    If you mean that it looks OLD compared to all the rest i agree. If you compare it to anything modern UI, personally, i find it much more functional than whatever i ever used in Modern UI. I'd keep it as an under the hood function. I am not saying you can't get a good similar thing in MUI.....i just say they didn't come up with good solution for this. Remember users were tired of searching for things and scrolling the screen vertically or horizontally looking for icons and moving around charm bars to find what they could have with one click/swipe of the Start button.
    Last edited by EC Translating Services; 10-03-2014 at 02:38 AM.
    10-02-2014 11:53 PM
  13. trekgraham's Avatar
    It is disappointing to see that the Control Panel is not going any time soon. You would think that 3 years would be enough to port all those settings to Modern UI.
    I think the problem is, too many have fully accepted modern UI to move away from control panel. Really surprised that is a fact, anyone else notice the desktop is pretty much a. Start Screen? Minus live tile's, and resizing of tiles(icons). Most fill the desktop with icons of their favorite programs. Modern UI just upped the ante by making them customizable and alive. This just reinforces what I learned from my days in tech support. You change one thing on some peoples screen and they can't find a thing
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    10-03-2014 12:32 AM
  14. orangeman34's Avatar
    So far I'd say it is the complete opposite of a disappointment for me. I was actually kind of underwhelmed when I first saw the leaked screenshots and the announcement afterward, but after installing the preview I actually really like it at this point and it should only get better as they continue to update it.
    10-03-2014 01:42 AM
  15. Mike Maio's Avatar
    It's a global test! Test it,report its bugs but dont post any crap about it as if its a finished product.. It works awesome desktop wise though.
    10-03-2014 01:46 AM
  16. Chris Stevens1's Avatar
    I agree that the Old look is not consistent with the Modern UI.
    That said, I go to control panel so seldom that the "Look: is low priority to me.
    Many user never even open control panel, so I see why it is low priority to MS.

    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.... Ralph Waldo Emerson
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-03-2014 02:02 AM
  17. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    ^^ You're assuming these billions of XP and 7 computers meet the minimum requirements to be able to upgrade. Windows 7, not so much. But many XP units lack the hardware to run 7, much less 8.
    anything which will run windows xp will run windows 7 even better and even more with windows 8 provided it has a gpu for windows 8 effects etc
    from my experience with a pentium 4,xp was dead slow with 1gb ram,the minute i put 7,it literally flies,14seconds to boot!! even faster than my other systems with better specs
    i cant install 8 on it again because my nvidia 8600gt died out on me,but 7 still runs fine
    10-03-2014 04:06 AM
  18. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    A unified operating system is the way to go. Making a way to be able to go from PC to mobile to tablet is very important. Apple is surely working on this with incorporating iMessage into Mac OSX
    but if two macs/idevices are running different versions of OSX/Mac ,it doesnt work,facetime etc
    so i cant call my friend via facetime since hes on ios 8 and im on ios 6.1.3
    microsoft has the edge with skype provided they fix bugs
    10-03-2014 04:08 AM
  19. trekgraham's Avatar
    I gotta say I thought the look of Windows 8 but finally tried it a and I love it. Though I still got trouble getting used to IE for Windows 8(not desktop) especially address bar location
    10-03-2014 04:36 AM
  20. rodan01's Avatar
    1) THIS IS A TECHNICAL PREVIEW I.E. its very early software meaning its very flexible and MS will add or change features.
    ...
    4) I like the windowed apps as i tend to run both modern and win x86 apps together, it makes my life easier. It sounds like you want a phone where apps are immersive this is a computer not an over sized phone its meant for productivity and entertainment and as others have said MS can change allot so they can even add an immersive mode for you if you suggest it enough times. BTW most people use multiple apps and have many windows open so windowed modern apps make more sense than always immersive apps.

    5) The OS is named Windows ... so i don't understand why you don't see the value in windowed modern apps as both Google and Apple have every thing run in a window on their OS .... and i don't see apple merging IOS and OSX any time soon apple only does things when they have perfected it so you may have a very long wait. i see merit in what you say but for a power user windowed apps are better but the option to go immersive or full screen for both desktop and modern apps should be there like what Apple offers.
    It's not early, It's quite late, in a few months they have to be feature complete.
    Power users are a small niche, and even for them is unusual to work with many apps on the screen at the same time. Although, a better snap feature in Windows 8 could accommodate more apps in more complex layouts for the corner cases.
    Immersive apps with a good snap functionality is a more productive environment for most of the users. Managing resizable and movable windows doesn't add much value, but it adds a lot of friction.
    Rumors are that Apple is working in a 13-inch iPad, maybe they've perfected some kind of "Modern UI".

    B) Things are where you expect to find them out of the box, like in the old W7
    D) It's fast also on a VM. Very fast, very efficient and, to date, flawless. Everything works including Microsoft Updates (already got two).
    F) No more double interface, double menus, double anything. You work in ONE interface with a bit of "Modern taste". No charms as promised.
    Yes, Windows 10 is Windows 7 with tiles, and It's fast.
    The double interface was the problem with Windows 8. I though they would introduce a way to run win32 apps in the Modern environment, but they did the opposite wrapping the beautiful experience of Modern apps in ugly windows. They're filling the screen of useless chrome and adding friction and complexity.

    Windows 10 loses many of the good features of Windows 8 and introduce new usability problems. For example, the Mail store app have a bar at the bottom with three dots to improve discoverability. That bar is easy to hit in Windows 8 with mouse and touch because you just go to bottom of the screen, but in Windows 10 the taskbar is at the bottom, and the bar with the three dots is really hard to hit with the mouse and almost impossible with touch. Windows 7 is not touch friendly, Windows-7-with-tiles neither.

    Windows 10 doesn't add much value to the OS landscape. Microsoft looks like a scared company running backwards, trying to hide themselves in the big and falling desktop market share. They're destroying most of the work they did with Windows 8 to bring back Windows 7. Irrelevance is not a random event, It's caused by wrong decisions and cowardice. If Steve Jobs had been an coward, we would still be using feature phones.
    10-03-2014 08:54 AM
  21. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    the 13-inch ipad wont be running osx or something,itll run ios
    do you know how long itll take for merging platforms,ask microsoft they did it before google and apple
    even if apple releases something like an osx tablet itll be a macbook air with a higher price tag and touch screen
    if you are calling microsoft a coward,remember that they ditched WP7 and its users for a better OS-WP8
    Nokia ditched its ready platform-Meego and mature,saturated symbian for Windows Phone 7
    microsoft came up with the One OS for all dream and made windows 8 which was a radical change from windows 7 and even worse for windows xp users(not saying windows 8 was bad,i liked it and dont understand all this hate)

    if steve jobs was such a non-coward why would he put such strict restrictions for app submissions like "no compiliers" etc
    why does the iphone lack something as simple as bluetooth file transfer,text message delivery note etc

    FYI its good MS has kept a "balance" attitude between the walled gardens of apple and the open ones of google,otherwise we would have to complain of lack of basic functions like bluetooth or scare away devs because of piracy and malware like on android

    Give credit where due!! MS has done a phenomenal job and is now officially ahead in terms of the OS core etc(One OS for all)!!
    google cannot achieve this because chrome os hasnt got a reason to choose it over Linux distros like Ubuntu
    apple cannot achieve this because of extreme pricing and OSX cannot be installed on regular PCs(atleast without bugs,unneccesary effort,questionable legality etc)
    plus this is a windows 10 Technical Preview,not even a consumer one
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    10-03-2014 09:23 AM
  22. Brandon Tobias's Avatar
    Since i was puzzled by the negative comments i went to install it on a virtual machine (here is procedure and links for those who want to do it How to install the Windows 10 Technical Preview in VMWare Player).
    Due to time constraints i won't be long but my opinion is as follows:
    A) The whole experience is "simplified".
    B) Things are where you expect to find them out of the box, like in the old W7
    C) The Start menu works for me. It has all the traditional items AND the chance to add tiles for the most used apps or for weather etc. Personally i'd add an option to make the tiled section STICKY and more customizable (alphabetic order for apps, grouping etc.). I'd call it "Pseudo-ModernUI mode". This will allow users who are unhappy about the traditional environment to still operate within the modern UI in a way. Anyway on hybrids and tablets that environment will be present. I don't like the fact that i can't add my own links in the start menu (they are now tiles though and it works fine for me).
    D) It's fast also on a VM. Very fast, very efficient and, to date, flawless. Everything works including Microsoft Updates (already got two).
    E) You can customize the start menu color and i find it very nice.
    F) No more double interface, double menus, double anything. You work in ONE interface with a bit of "Modern taste". No charms as promised. Touch interface is fast, very fast and very accurate. In short, it could be a beta too and people could use it (although many would be complaining for the missing options i don't see after just a few hours of usage)
    Below some pics for those who are curious:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    EDIT:
    Digging more into articles i found out the Metro UI is there in full (Article here:Here is how to get back the Modern Start Screen in Windows 10 Technical Preview | Windows Phone Central)
    Here it is. You just need to change the options in the navigation menu.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Honestly, can't imagine anything more flexible than this. And this is just a preview.

    I have suggested Microsoft some changes/optimizations through the dedicated channel. I'd recommend anyone willing to rant to also go rant there so there are higher chances that rants turn into something constructive out of the box.
    I have also suggested to allow for some tiles/widgets (News apps, weather, calendar, and a few others) to be addable as widgets on the desktop. This is because i may like or need to have multiple timezones showing in a comfortable place (I use a third party app at the moment and i am not fond of third party apps).

    What do you think? I am genuinely curious!
    i agree with you MS just need some changes
    - namely i want flat icons beautiful flat icons OS wide
    -Start menu could do with a bit of a design like how the start screen had wallpapers the flat color is kinda boring (i say start themes FTW)
    - the shadows around active and in active windows are ugly to me its too much and should be a blend of subtle and pronounced for active windows and subtle for inactive windows.
    - Explorer is a change for me i'm still adjusting to the changes but for now all i want is a flatter more modern look with new icons so modern apps and regular x86 apps look like the belong together on the same screen.
    - Some people like modern apps Full screen and i think MS should make an option that makes modern apps either windowed or full screen.
    - I agree with desktop widgets but i don't like them but having the option for it would be cool.

    cant wait to see the rest of features :)
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-03-2014 09:34 AM
  23. Brandon Tobias's Avatar
    It's not early, It's quite late, in a few months they have to be feature complete.
    Power users are a small niche, and even for them is unusual to work with many apps on the screen at the same time. Although, a better snap feature in Windows 8 could accommodate more apps in more complex layouts for the corner cases.
    Immersive apps with a good snap functionality is a more productive environment for most of the users. Managing resizable and movable windows doesn't add much value, but it adds a lot of friction.
    Rumors are that Apple is working in a 13-inch iPad, maybe they've perfected some kind of "Modern UI".



    Yes, Windows 10 is Windows 7 with tiles, and It's fast.
    The double interface was the problem with Windows 8. I though they would introduce a way to run win32 apps in the Modern environment, but they did the opposite wrapping the beautiful experience of Modern apps in ugly windows. They're filling the screen of useless chrome and adding friction and complexity.

    Windows 10 loses many of the good features of Windows 8 and introduce new usability problems. For example, the Mail store app have a bar at the bottom with three dots to improve discoverability. That bar is easy to hit in Windows 8 with mouse and touch because you just go to bottom of the screen, but in Windows 10 the taskbar is at the bottom, and the bar with the three dots is really hard to hit with the mouse and almost impossible with touch. Windows 7 is not touch friendly, Windows-7-with-tiles neither.

    Windows 10 doesn't add much value to the OS landscape. Microsoft looks like a scared company running backwards, trying to hide themselves in the big and falling desktop market share. They're destroying most of the work they did with Windows 8 to bring back Windows 7. Irrelevance is not a random event, It's caused by wrong decisions and cowardice. If Steve Jobs had been an coward, we would still be using feature phones.
    Ok MS employee its late by your clock ....
    what ever you say you say or think .....
    What i have to say is im glad you are not running the windows team because idk what would have happened .....
    but its your opinion and i respect that i have no energy to exert on explaining again
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-03-2014 09:41 AM
  24. EC Translating Services's Avatar
    Managing resizable and movable windows doesn't add much value, but it adds a lot of friction.
    I work on multiple windows (localization software one or more than one, dictionaries, other translating apps and websites + post it notes on desktops and a variety of widgets which i place at will around the desktop). Modern UI for me is utterly useless with my needs. I suspect others have similar issues with Modern UI. The new W10 supports multiple desktops too. This means i can have one desktop cluttered with all what i need for work and then another desktop for spare time or entertainment. Modern UI doesn't allow for the same flexibility.

    Put simply, it's a gorgeous interface for tablets and even for a mobile if they do it. WP should have it out of the box, including all those interface customizations. It would considerably improve the WP platform. But on a desktop it's limited, very limited.
    Last edited by EC Translating Services; 10-03-2014 at 11:37 AM.
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    10-03-2014 09:58 AM
  25. fatclue_98's Avatar
    anything which will run windows xp will run windows 7 even better and even more with windows 8 provided it has a gpu for windows 8 effects etc
    from my experience with a pentium 4,xp was dead slow with 1gb ram,the minute i put 7,it literally flies,14seconds to boot!! even faster than my other systems with better specs
    i cant install 8 on it again because my nvidia 8600gt died out on me,but 7 still runs fine
    A lot of XP machines only had 256 or 512 RAM. Video was usually 64MB of shared memory too. Without updating, they can't run 7.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-03-2014 09:59 AM
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