10-11-2014 10:32 AM
244 ... 78910
tools
  1. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I think touch will always be a more consumption focused interaction method. With it getting into productivity work flows only where it makes sense like PhotoShop illustrating, etc.

    The keyboard and mouse are like wrenches and screw drivers for auto mechanics, while touch is like the steering wheel and pedals for drivers.

    Close, more like the radio and A/C. Made for comfort and convenience. I like your analogy though.
    10-07-2014 11:44 AM
  2. spaulagain's Avatar
    Close, more like the radio and A/C. Made for comfort and convenience. I like your analogy though.
    Ya, I was thinking more in line of drivers needing steering wheel and pedals for general use. It's the simplest and most direct way to interact with the vehicle. It's intuitive and does what 90% of users need from a car. Touch is the same way. And it's not really about comfort, its about what's the easiest, most direct, and intuitive way to interact with the OS.

    Mechanics use steering wheel and pedals as well, just like pro users may use touch here and there for consumption, because they use the device too. But mechanics need tools with more fidelity to fix the vehicle, make modifications to it, etc. Just like pro users need mouse and keyboard to do more advanced things with computers, things like programing, AutoCAD, design, system admin, etc.
    10-07-2014 12:28 PM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Ya, I was thinking more in line of drivers needing steering wheel and pedals for general use. It's the simplest and most direct way to interact with the vehicle. It's intuitive and does what 90% of users need from a car. Touch is the same way. And it's not really about comfort, its about what's the easiest, most direct, and intuitive way to interact with the OS.

    Mechanics use steering wheel and pedals as well, just like pro users may use touch here and there for consumption, because they use the device too. But mechanics need tools with more fidelity to fix the vehicle, make modifications to it, etc. Just like pro users need mouse and keyboard to do more advanced things with computers, things like programing, AutoCAD, design, system admin, etc.
    You said the magic word, AutoCAD. Have you tried the mobile versions on iOS or Android? They're barely functional as .dwg viewers. Yeah, they're a hoot if you like to rotate items real fast and watch them spin.
    spaulagain and Karthik Naik like this.
    10-07-2014 03:02 PM
  4. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    You said the magic word, AutoCAD. Have you tried the mobile versions on iOS or Android? They're barely functional as .dwg viewers. Yeah, they're a hoot if you like to rotate items real fast and watch them spin.
    Llordy likes this.
    10-07-2014 03:42 PM
  5. spaulagain's Avatar
    You said the magic word, AutoCAD. Have you tried the mobile versions on iOS or Android? They're barely functional as .dwg viewers. Yeah, they're a hoot if you like to rotate items real fast and watch them spin.
    Lol, I haven't tried the mobile version. But I can tell from personal use of AutoCAD, Visual Studio, there is just no way touch could ever be used for 100% of the interaction. It's nice for a few elements like scrolling, zoom, etc.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-07-2014 05:10 PM
  6. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Lol, I haven't tried the mobile version. But I can tell from personal use of AutoCAD, Visual Studio, there is just no way touch could ever be used for 100% of the interaction. It's nice for a few elements like scrolling, zoom, etc.
    I've never played with VS but I can tell you that AutoCAD on my 8" Note 8 is plausible for dimensioning and other menial tasks but ONLY with the Wacom pen. The Atom CPUs just don't have the cojones to handle more intricate duties especially with multi-layers or 20 "lights" on. Gotta stay with desktop regardless of what the college kids say.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-07-2014 07:25 PM
  7. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    The preview showed today is the OS for: PCs, hybrids like the Surface Pro and the Asus T100, and big tablets that offer compatibility with x86 apps like the Toshiba encore 2 (10-inch) and the Hp Omni 10.

    Sadly, this version is mostly a desktop OS optimized for mouse and keyboard. The touch UI is an horrible mess, an afterthought.
    I understand they want to secure the PC market, but to make happy the Windows 7 users they dismantled the touch aspect of the OS. Maybe a bit of geniality could had prevented the fatidic outcome, but no, they couldn't solved it, this is just Windows 7 with live tiles, and a ridiculous "continuum" UI unfit for touch devices.
    Of course tech bloggers are praising Windows 10 because they only see it as a desktop OS, but with the focus in the touch interface I only see mediocrity and failure.


    They'll show the ARM version in early 2015, here a glimpse:

    http://wmpoweruser.com/first-tablet-...hone-pictured/

    Just a scaled up WP.


    The major design decisions can be changed in so little time, It took a couple of years to develop what they showed today.
    Okay, so I just saw Microsofts demonstration and I find no fault with continuum. Think of the taskbar in the bottom as "on screen navigation panel". The only thing it needs is an option to manual/auto hide and an option to bring it up by swiping from the bottom in touch mode. Maybe someone can send some feedback to Microsoft regarding this.

    Other than that, they didn't even mention any touch features at all so I don't know why you would get the idea that they are abandoning touch interactions when Joe Belfiore clearly mentioned that touch is an important aspect for MS and that they are still working on it.

    Ofcourse, it is an upscaled version of WP. What else were you expecting? And since WP doesn't currently support landscape mode, I'm sure existing landscape mode, snap view and gestures/interactions will survive for tablets/hybrids.

    It is clear that you support Modern UI over desktop UI but why will that mean that Hybrids are dead? People buy hybrids to be productive and that is something you can't compromise on. What MS has done with Windows 10 is that they have tipped the scales in favour of productivity/enterprise/mousekeyboarduse. So is it any wonder why this preview was called technical preview? Or how it was aimed at Professionals? Or how how hybrids won't die?
    10-08-2014 01:34 PM
  8. Studio384's Avatar
    I think Windows 10 will be a really good OS for laptops and desktop PCs, but to achieve this MS sacrificed the hybrids and tablets. With Windows 8 they couldn't solve the duality of a convertible device and they privileged the touch interactions. With Windows 10 they couldn't solve it either but now they privileged mouse and keyboard interactions. It seems MS forgot that PCs are just 14% of the devices sold and falling.
    Actualy no, PC sales are rising.
    The "Continuum" concept they showed for hybrids like the Surface Pro 3 is ridiculous. The apps run in full screen except for the taskbar that is always visible, so the user has to use those little tiny icons to switch between apps. A back button is added to the taskbar, good luck reaching that small button, and since when Store Apps need a back button? Hybrids are just an afterthought in Windows 10, on the contrary hybrids were the most important form factor for Windows 8.
    Tiny? You do realize that the taskbar becomes larger, right? The back button is there because Windows and Windows Phone are merging, and Windows Phone apps expect there to be a back button, and probably, Windows 10 apps will be able to relay on that too. But then again, you don't have to use Continuum, if you want the normal Windows 8 interface, that's fine, you can have it in 10.
    And the most worrying thing is the small tablet that they showed in the picture of all the Windows devices. It's just Windows Phone scaled up, with the same three columns of tiles and the three buttons at the bottom. So, Microsoft just killed all the UI interactions that they introduced for tablets with Windows 8: app switching at the left, charms, closing apps swiping down, back button in the apps. It seems tablets will just run a scaled up WP OS.
    I'm realy surprised you can see that on such a small piece of CONCEPT ART.
    From what they showed I think Microsoft is just trying to secure the desktop market for a few more years until more apps come to Chromebooks. The few details about Windows 10 for touch devices are disappointing. I had high expectations for Windows vnext, but what they showed is mediocre, they couldn't came up with a solution for the duality problem and they decided to secure their position in the PC market.

    I guess Surface Pro 4 won't be called a tablet, that "Continuum" abomination is not a touch interface.
    Ugh.
    10-08-2014 03:06 PM
  9. LOTSA_PAYPA's Avatar
    I tunes wont open in Windows 10 preview. Anyone else with this problem and do you guys think Microsoft will fix this issue in an upcoming update because Xbox music sucks
    10-08-2014 03:47 PM
  10. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    I tunes wont open in Windows 10 preview. Anyone else with this problem and do you guys think Microsoft will fix this issue in an upcoming update because Xbox music sucks
    They will not.
    10-08-2014 04:58 PM
  11. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    I've never played with VS but I can tell you that AutoCAD on my 8" Note 8 is plausible for dimensioning and other menial tasks but ONLY with the Wacom pen. The Atom CPUs just don't have the cojones to handle more intricate duties especially with multi-layers or 20 "lights" on. Gotta stay with desktop regardless of what the college kids say.
    which tablet is this?
    10-09-2014 12:48 AM
  12. fatclue_98's Avatar
    which tablet is this?
    This one. It's not even listed on our forum, I feel left out.

    Tablet & Mobile - ASUS VivoTab Note 8 (M80TA) - ASUS
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    10-09-2014 08:25 AM
  13. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    This one. It's not even listed on our forum, I feel left out.

    Tablet & Mobile - ASUS VivoTab Note 8 (M80TA) - ASUS
    ohh i assumed samsung note 8 at first!! :D :P
    10-09-2014 12:49 PM
  14. fatclue_98's Avatar
    ohh i assumed samsung note 8 at first!! :D :P
    Good Lord, man! How could you think that of me?
    10-09-2014 01:54 PM
  15. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    Good Lord, man! How could you think that of me?
    ikr i was rather shocked myself :D :P
    10-09-2014 08:52 PM
  16. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    Is there a way to close this thread? I believe OP got the answer.
    squire777 and Brandon Tobias like this.
    10-10-2014 04:07 AM
  17. rodan01's Avatar
    Is there a way to close this thread? I believe OP got the answer.
    It's open to discussion, for now the initial argument is still correct.

    The great solution that Microsoft found to their problems is to push the anachronistic UI they introduced 20 years ago in Windows 95.
    Some people here want to close their eyes saying that there is still an option to activate the start menu, although an insignificant percentage of the users tweaks obscure options, so It's irrelevant. Microsoft won't push both UIs to retailers, for example, you won't see a Yoga Pro with Start Menu and beside that a Yoga Pro with Start Screen. Microsoft already chose the Windows 95 UI for their important products including the Surface Pro and other hybrids.
    Other argument is that this is a preview and Microsoft will develop something totally different in 5 months, that's hilarious, obviously the big design decisions are already taken.

    The impact of Windows 10 is that Metro is dead. Nobody buys Windows Phones, nobody will buy Windows tablets running the mobile OS if they compete with hybrids and the Surface that have a different UI.
    If developers adopt WinRT for Windows 10 they will optimize for keyboard and mouse, not for an insignificant number of mobile users, the OS itself is optimized for keyboard and mouse even for hybrids.

    I can't recommend Microsoft products anymore. the company ran out of ideas. Most people don't need the complexity of an UI introduced 20 years ago. Apple and Google are free to dominate the consumer market, and their products are slowly penetrating in the enterprise market.
    10-10-2014 09:34 AM
  18. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    It's open to discussion, for now the initial argument It's still correct.

    The great solution that Microsoft found to their problems is to push the anachronistic UI they introduced 20 years ago in Windows 95.
    Some people here want to close their eyes saying that there is still an option to activate the start menu, although an insignificant percentage of the users tweaks obscure options, so It's irrelevant. Microsoft won't push both UIs to retailers, for example, you won't see a Yoga Pro with Start Menu and beside that a Yoga Pro with Start Screen. Microsoft already chose the Windows 95 UI for their important products including the Surface Pro and other hybrids.
    Other argument is that this is a preview and Microsoft will develop something totally different in 5 months, that's hilarious, obviously the big design decisions are already taken.

    The impact of Windows 10 is that Metro is dead. Nobody buys Windows Phones, nobody will buy Windows tablets running the mobile OS if they compete with hybrids and the Surface that have a different UI.
    If developers adopt WinRT for Windows 10 they will optimize for keyboard and mouse, not for an insignificant number of mobile users, the OS itself is optimized for keyboard and mouse even for hybrids.

    I can't recommend Microsoft products anymore. the company ran out of ideas. Most people don't need the complexity of an UI introduced 20 years ago. Apple and Google are free to dominate the consumer market, and their products are slowly penetrating in the enterprise market.
    Wow, so much misinformation in one post.
    10-10-2014 09:38 AM
  19. spaulagain's Avatar
    It's open to discussion, for now the initial argument It's still correct.

    The great solution that Microsoft found to their problems is to push the anachronistic UI they introduced 20 years ago in Windows 95.
    Some people here want to close their eyes saying that there is still an option to activate the start menu, although an insignificant percentage of the users tweaks obscure options, so It's irrelevant. Microsoft won't push both UIs to retailers, for example, you won't see a Yoga Pro with Start Menu and beside that a Yoga Pro with Start Screen. Microsoft already chose the Windows 95 UI for their important products including the Surface Pro and other hybrids.
    Other argument is that this is a preview and Microsoft will develop something totally different in 5 months, that's hilarious, obviously the big design decisions are already taken.

    The impact of Windows 10 is that Metro is dead. Nobody buys Windows Phones, nobody will buy Windows tablets running the mobile OS if they compete with hybrids and the Surface that have a different UI.
    If developers adopt WinRT for Windows 10 they will optimize for keyboard and mouse, not for an insignificant number of mobile users, the OS itself is optimized for keyboard and mouse even for hybrids.

    I can't recommend Microsoft products anymore. the company ran out of ideas. Most people don't need the complexity of an UI introduced 20 years ago. Apple and Google are free to dominate the consumer market, and their products are slowly penetrating in the enterprise market.
    Dude, you are so full of horse****. Just stop. They've publicly stated that they will be revealing the Touch focused UI later (January). Windows 10 will be the same OS on desktop as it is on phone, just a tweaked UI. Do you honestly think what we've seen so far is going to be the end result for phones? If so, you're f-ing insane.

    Your problem is you're stuck in the mindset from 5-10 years ago where MS had essentially wrapped up any major development almost a year before release of the next Windows. That's specifically not the case anymore. And your continued attempt to steamroll everyone with this BS, just shows how out of touch you are with reality.
    10-10-2014 09:42 AM
  20. rodan01's Avatar
    Dude, you are so full of horse****. Just stop. They've publicly stated that they will be revealing the Touch focused UI later (January). Windows 10 will be the same OS on desktop as it is on phone, just a tweaked UI. Do you honestly think what we've seen so far is going to be the end result for phones? If so, you're f-ing insane.

    Your problem is you're stuck in the mindset from 5-10 years ago where MS had essentially wrapped up any major development almost a year before release of the next Windows. That's specifically not the case anymore. And your continued attempt to steamroll everyone with this BS, just shows how out of touch you are with reality.
    I didn't say that. WP and tablets will use the MOBILE OS, but who's going to buy them? The market share in phones is falling, and RT tablets will compete with hybrids that use the Windows 95 UI, including the Surface.

    So, the number of people using the Modern UI will be insignificant.
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    10-10-2014 10:12 AM
  21. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Year over year, it's up .1%. How's that falling? In Europe it's 9.2 and climbing. Lay off the weed.
    marhooba likes this.
    10-10-2014 10:16 AM
  22. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    It's open to discussion, for now the initial argument is still correct.

    The great solution that Microsoft found to their problems is to push the anachronistic UI they introduced 20 years ago in Windows 95.
    Some people here want to close their eyes saying that there is still an option to activate the start menu, although an insignificant percentage of the users tweaks obscure options, so It's irrelevant. Microsoft won't push both UIs to retailers, for example, you won't see a Yoga Pro with Start Menu and beside that a Yoga Pro with Start Screen. Microsoft already chose the Windows 95 UI for their important products including the Surface Pro and other hybrids.
    Other argument is that this is a preview and Microsoft will develop something totally different in 5 months, that's hilarious, obviously the big design decisions are already taken.

    The impact of Windows 10 is that Metro is dead. Nobody buys Windows Phones, nobody will buy Windows tablets running the mobile OS if they compete with hybrids and the Surface that have a different UI.
    If developers adopt WinRT for Windows 10 they will optimize for keyboard and mouse, not for an insignificant number of mobile users, the OS itself is optimized for keyboard and mouse even for hybrids.

    I can't recommend Microsoft products anymore. the company ran out of ideas. Most people don't need the complexity of an UI introduced 20 years ago. Apple and Google are free to dominate the consumer market, and their products are slowly penetrating in the enterprise market.
    dafuq_was_that_0n0_by_snowprincess_lily-d6muntz.png
    Niavlys77 and Brandon Tobias like this.
    10-10-2014 10:17 AM
  23. spaulagain's Avatar
    I didn't say that. WP and tablets will use the MOBILE OS, but who's going to buy them? The market share in phones is falling, and RT tablets will compete with hybrids that use the Windows 95 UI, including the Surface.

    So, the number of people using the Modern UI will be insignificant.
    Again, you're completely failing to understand anything.

    There will be no "Mobile OS." It's Windows 10, PERIOD.

    And users will be exposed to the Modern environment, even on the desktop focused UI. It's simply won't be presented full screen like it has been in the past, because full screen apps on Desktops is not desired by many users. But the Modern "environment" and design language will be there all the time.

    Creating an OS that's UI adapts to the individual use case is the best way to please users rather than force improper experiences down their throat. That doesn't mean that the design language and principles have to be completely different, they can be the same. Just tweaked to be more efficient based on how they are being interacted with.

    You clearly can't get your head of the sand on this matter.
    10-10-2014 10:59 AM
  24. squire777's Avatar
    It's open to discussion, for now the initial argument is still correct.

    ...
    lol
    Niavlys77 likes this.
    10-10-2014 11:33 AM
  25. rodan01's Avatar
    Again, you're completely failing to understand anything.

    There will be no "Mobile OS." It's Windows 10, PERIOD.
    Or, you could say the operating systems for desktop, mobile and Xbox are different but they share a common core and app model. Beyond repeating marketing lines, you understand the concept, the user has a different UI and different capabilities, a different experience.

    And users will be exposed to the Modern environment, even on the desktop focused UI. It's simply won't be presented full screen like it has been in the past, because full screen apps on Desktops is not desired by many users. But the Modern "environment" and design language will be there all the time.
    Not really. The modern environment is not there. Full screen apps is a core part of Modern UI principles: Simplicity, clean design, content first, immersive chrome-less experience. Many of Modern UI elements are replaced with Windows 95 UI elements. For example the small three dots menu in the window title bar, so difficult to touch in an hybrid or a touch laptop, app switching at the left is replaced with a Windows 95 taskbar, the Windows start screen is replaced with start menu (I know you can use a setting to change it, but most people never mess with obscure settings).
    The Modern apps looks awful and alien inside the Windows 95 desktop environment, so when you want a pleasant experience you left the Windows device and switch to a real consumer device.

    Creating an OS that's UI adapts to the individual use case is the best way to please users rather than force improper experiences down their throat. That doesn't mean that the design language and principles have to be completely different, they can be the same. Just tweaked to be more efficient based on how they are being interacted with.

    You clearly can't get your head of the sand on this matter.
    Modern UI works well with mouse and keyboard, they could have improved that.
    There are 1.5 billion people using Windows, but the actual usage time of Windows is falling because It's an overkill for most tasks. It's a more enjoyable and productive experience to use a simple device, with a simple UI, for simple tasks. Specially in the consumer market, what's the point of so much useless chrome obstructing the content? What's the point of moving and resizing windows?

    Microsoft is pushing this Windows 95 UI principles to their core products like hybrids and Surface Pro, the products where they have an advantage over Apple and Google. So, the number of people buying devices with the REAL Modern UI experience which is better for most of the daily simple tasks, will be insignificant.

    The final effect is that less and less people will use Windows for their most common computing tasks. Windows is just the boring OS you have to use at work to run legacy apps. That's called irrelevance, and in the long term money follows relevance.
    10-10-2014 11:50 AM
244 ... 78910

Similar Threads

  1. Are You Trying Out The Preview of Windows 10
    By Pete in forum Windows 10 Insider Preview
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: 10-15-2014, 12:51 PM
  2. What if the Windows 10 ISO contains the phone files?
    By someone2639 in forum Windows 10 Insider Preview
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-03-2014, 04:10 AM
  3. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 10-02-2014, 04:41 PM
  4. BLU Win HD Windows Phone - Unboxing and first impressions
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-30-2014, 05:11 PM
  5. Microsoft posts video of Windows 10 press event to make up for no live stream
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-30-2014, 04:11 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD