09-24-2015 11:36 AM
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  1. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    I agree with the others who say WMC is a great product, in particular it's the only proper solution for a digital cable DVR, one that works without hacks and only requires a Windows computer with a CableCard TV tuner. You don't have to mess with additional hardware or software. It just works and works well. Otherwise you have to rent one from the cable company or buy a TiVo or similar device and pay monthly service fee for that, and often times you only get 2 tuners instead of 4 or 6 that many CableCard tuners provide.

    That said, cable companies discourage the use of CableCards by making them a little more difficult to get, not including them with bundles, and offering little support. CableCards that are used in boxes other than what the cable company provides represent maybe 1% or so of the market and the vast majority of those are TiVo. In addition, traditional cable TV is starting to become a thing of the past. Soon enough more and more live channels will be available for streaming, and such services as On Demand, HBO GO, or logging into your cable account online to watch shows on AMC or other channels you may have missed are becoming the norm, negating the need for a traditional DVR in many cases.

    What Microsoft needs to do is work with cable companies to bring streaming live TV to both the Xbox One as well as the Xbox Video or another Windows 10 app, then offer a new media center type app that makes it easier to use the remote control and interacts with other apps such as Netflix, and Blu Ray player. I believe Verizon FIOS offers some live channels on the Xbox One without the need of connecting the cable box. I may look into this. As great as WMC and CableCard support is, unfortunately, it is time to move on from them.
    Kevin Rush and Cho CoMo like this.
    02-08-2015 08:44 AM
  2. DavidinCT's Avatar
    So, I tried something, a long time ago, when Windows 8 came out, someone created a Install for Windows Media Center for Windows 8. They created a installer, and it installed on Windows 8 and seemed to work fine with tuners (didn't try it on a cablecard tuner).

    For those who are asking, I DO not remember where I got it from but, it was tagged from one of the big tech sites, I know for a fact that it does work on Windows 8 and 8.1..(I have it setup on my tablet). Just one of those endless files I see to have sitting on my Windows 7 desktop (Need to clean it up a little)

    So the other day, I tried to install it to Windows 10 (the newest build) and it does not run at all, as an admin or in compatibly mode.

    Maybe MS changed something in the graphics subsystem that wont work with WMC ?


    That said, cable companies discourage the use of CableCards by making them a little more difficult to get, not including them with bundles, and offering little support. CableCards that are used in boxes other than what the cable company provides represent maybe 1% or so of the market and the vast majority of those are TiVo. In addition, traditional cable TV is starting to become a thing of the past. Soon enough more and more live channels will be available for streaming, and such services as On Demand, HBO GO, or logging into your cable account online to watch shows on AMC or other channels you may have missed are becoming the norm, negating the need for a traditional DVR in many cases.
    Your 100% right, Cable companies do not push or give you hard time with getting or supporting cablecards. I have used COX and COMCAST (current) and if you have an issue, it's normally a hassle to get support. After MONTHS of issues (where after about 2 weeks channels would just fall off) and calling every month or so, I finally got a direct number to the cablecard support team and I keep it on a sticky note in my office. After talking to them before, No problems, it's been working for months with out a problem.

    The BIGGEST problem with cablecards is their limits. In their current form, they do not support true 2-way communication, So with this, you lose PPV and On-Demand features. Some one who has cable but, not all those features (just basic or extended basic) WOULD LOVE WMC. Also for people who never use those features.

    There was a upgraded cablecard that was going to FCC and not sure if it was officially approved but, it would of supported on-demand and PPV. It's been a while from the time I heard about it.

    Never mind, WMC was not designed for Cablecard v2, so it would need to be almost re-written to support those features (unless the eHome team started it before they broke up), so even if you could get one, get your cable company to activate it, there is no software or hardware that support it...

    Sad to say :(

    Also when WMC for Windows 7 came out, there was a good period of time before the "eHome" team was broken up, there was rumor that they were building a new version of WMC (this is going back a few years).

    As we know (at least WMC junkies know) there is no difference in WMC in 7 and 8, they just removed "start when windows starts" and "WMC always on top". In fact the version number did not change.

    Would love to see the last bits of what the eHome team created....EVEN SCREENSHOTS...
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    02-17-2015 09:30 AM
  3. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    Your 100% right, Cable companies do not push or give you hard time with getting or supporting cablecards. I have used COX and COMCAST (current) and if you have an issue, it's normally a hassle to get support. After MONTHS of issues (where after about 2 weeks channels would just fall off) and calling every month or so, I finally got a direct number to the cablecard support team and I keep it on a sticky note in my office. After talking to them before, No problems, it's been working for months with out a problem...
    Yeah, and Comcast used to offer Cablecards for tech install only so when I got mine the first time, the tech came but couldn't figure out how to get it working. He didn't understand WMC and blamed the problem on my system. After he left, I ran some diagnostics and discovered that the problem was receiving the signal so I called and did an automatic refresh by using their touch tone system and suddenly is started working.

    The second time I set it up I ordered service for self-install and they said they can't ship cable cards and sent me a cable box instead but they said I could take the cable box back to their office and they will give me a cable card instead so I did just that. I then called the number to activate. The rep did not understand that it would work with WMC so I pretended that I had a TiVo instead and just gave all the information from WMC and then it worked fine.

    The BIGGEST problem with cablecards is their limits. In their current form, they do not support true 2-way communication, So with this, you lose PPV and On-Demand features. Some one who has cable but, not all those features (just basic or extended basic) WOULD LOVE WMC. Also for people who never use those features..
    This is true but you don't have to rely solely on WMC. After all you have a full Windows desktop computer. Comcast has their On Demand available for streaming through the web. PPV is generally a waste of money and there are usually other options such as renting a movie from Amazon.com.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    02-17-2015 10:27 AM
  4. DavidinCT's Avatar
    This is true but you don't have to rely solely on WMC. After all you have a full Windows desktop computer. Comcast has their On Demand available for streaming through the web. PPV is generally a waste of money and there are usually other options such as renting a movie from Amazon.com.
    All depends on the family, some people use on-demand/PPV all the time. Others could care less about it. I did customer WMC based home theater PCs for a few years (till MS officially killed it), maybe about 150-200 PCs I setup and installed. This topic came up a lot when I was selling the system to the clients (PPV more than on-demand).

    As for 3rd party On-demand products/web sites, sure there are a ton of them. The key thing for me, can they be fully controlled via remote ?

    There are some mods where you can get a icon in WMC, then click on it and it will open IE in Kiosk mode (full screen with no banners). If the item can be used via a remote, then it's something I would use, otherwise, it does not fit in the interface, so I wont use it.

    I am talking about a Dedicated Home theater PC, used just for WMC running at 2160p @60hz(4k/UHD) with full DTS/DD-HD core audio running from it.
    Kevin Rush and Cho CoMo like this.
    02-18-2015 11:37 AM
  5. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    All depends on the family, some people use on-demand/PPV all the time. Others could care less about it. I did customer WMC based home theater PCs for a few years (till MS officially killed it), maybe about 150-200 PCs I setup and installed. This topic came up a lot when I was selling the system to the clients (PPV more than on-demand).

    As for 3rd party On-demand products/web sites, sure there are a ton of them. The key thing for me, can they be fully controlled via remote ?

    There are some mods where you can get a icon in WMC, then click on it and it will open IE in Kiosk mode (full screen with no banners). If the item can be used via a remote, then it's something I would use, otherwise, it does not fit in the interface, so I wont use it.

    I am talking about a Dedicated Home theater PC, used just for WMC running at 2160p @60hz(4k/UHD) with full DTS/DD-HD core audio running from it.
    I agree, but what I meant was that for those who just may want to access some other content on occasion, the option is there to use the computer without the remote. For me, having 4 tuners, not having to rent a DVR, and support for DVDs both stored on the HDD and physical ones, plugins for Blu Ray and Netflix that were remote control friendly, third party plugins for Hulu and others, and occasionally having to use the web browser to access other content, was adequate, worked well and saved me money.
    However, now that WMCs days are numbered and there are streaming options of live TV available, my next project will be to replace my HTPC with an Xbox One, use its apps, and set up Plex to stream locally stored movies. I'll lose the DVR but it's no longer important to me with most content available for streaming, and I can switch to Verizon FIOS if Comcast isn't going to play nice with the Xbox One.
    02-18-2015 12:40 PM
  6. WScottCross's Avatar
    I was a hardcore MC user since the original 2005 version. I was unhappy that MS decided to remove support for the other extenders in Windows 8, so I was stuck with Windows 7. I decided to cut the cable back in December after yet another price increase from Comcast. I switched over to OTA and streaming for the shows I couldn't get OTA. After a bunch of research into the best way to have both the DVR and streaming from one device, I looked into TiVo and found that it was the best option for me. I now have a TiVo Roamio Basic with 4 tuners (supports either OTA or cablecard) and 3 TiVo Mini's. I upgraded the drive to 3TB as soon as I got it and that's plenty considering I now have fewer channels to record from. The latest update from TiVo integrates the streaming and recorded shows into one package called OnePass. It's the perfect replacement for me. It does everything my MC did with one exception; no more automatic commercial skipping. The commercial detection was never perfect in MC, but I do still miss it. I can still skip with the remote so it's no show stopper for me. The cost I paid for the TiVo's with lifetime subscription will be recovered in under a year from what I'm saving from cutting the cable. All my MC hardware is now up for sale and that will further offset the hardware costs of the TiVo units. Anyone looking for a MC alternative should consider TiVo.
    02-18-2015 03:55 PM
  7. CJ Thunder's Avatar
    Xbone and a usb receiver for cable/antenna would be nice.
    02-18-2015 04:00 PM
  8. Maaz Mansori's Avatar
    Xbone and a usb receiver for cable/antenna would be nice.
    I agree. I'm hoping maybe once the 'Xbone' is updated to Windows 10, a standard USB TV tuner could work. I have an outdoor digital over the air antenna that I can make use of. It's somewhat wishful thinking though. Apparently, the capability is already available in parts of Europe and I think Australia.
    02-18-2015 04:07 PM
  9. dgr_874's Avatar
    I was a hardcore MC user since the original 2005 version. I was unhappy that MS decided to remove support for the other extenders in Windows 8, so I was stuck with Windows 7. I decided to cut the cable back in December after yet another price increase from Comcast. I switched over to OTA and streaming for the shows I couldn't get OTA. After a bunch of research into the best way to have both the DVR and streaming from one device, I looked into TiVo and found that it was the best option for me. I now have a TiVo Roamio Basic with 4 tuners (supports either OTA or cablecard) and 3 TiVo Mini's. I upgraded the drive to 3TB as soon as I got it and that's plenty considering I now have fewer channels to record from. The latest update from TiVo integrates the streaming and recorded shows into one package called OnePass. It's the perfect replacement for me. It does everything my MC did with one exception; no more automatic commercial skipping. The commercial detection was never perfect in MC, but I do still miss it. I can still skip with the remote so it's no show stopper for me. The cost I paid for the TiVo's with lifetime subscription will be recovered in under a year from what I'm saving from cutting the cable. All my MC hardware is now up for sale and that will further offset the hardware costs of the TiVo units. Anyone looking for a MC alternative should consider TiVo.
    Does the mini's have the same capability as an extender did for WMC? Shared Guide, Hulu, Netflix available on the mini?
    02-18-2015 04:12 PM
  10. CJ Thunder's Avatar
    I agree. I'm hoping maybe once the 'Xbone' is updated to Windows 10, a standard USB TV tuner could work. I have an outdoor digital over the air antenna that I can make use of. It's somewhat wishful thinking though. Apparently, the capability is already available in parts of Europe and I think Australia.
    I hope so with w10. I wonder if they'll be a hack to put steam on an xbone...
    Anyway I miss many media center things.

    Kind of on topic, are there any curator type apps or sites that will launch the proper app or service with a specific movie or show?
    02-18-2015 05:08 PM
  11. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Thank you, everyone for your comments in this forum string. It is a good read and mostly informative.

    Our family is relatively new to WMC, but our story is much like many I have read. EVERY DAY, we use our dedicated PC (SSD for the Windows 7 OS and 3 TB hard disk) with Ceton XfiniTV PCIe 4 tuner card (Comcast M card) and HDMI running to the 58" Panasonic Plasma with XBox 360s on the other TVs.

    Windows Media Center is truly amazing. Easy to use by the average person. It works great for us. We use it for time shifting all our TV shows. I can't remember the last time we watched a TV show live and sat through the commercials. We also have family photos w/ play lists, our music collection and a few movies on WMC. Available on all the TVs! I know, the readers here know all this, but we and our guests are still impressed.

    With all the hard disk space available (and we could easily add more) we set up to record each and every new show we have any interest in, each new TV season using the integrated TV Guide. Then at our leisure, we watch them to see if we like them or not. Windows Media Center is the only solution that records protected DRM content so we record shows on premium channels like HBO, ... too.

    I'm not interested in paying for cable set top boxes or paying for TiVo or giving up my easy to use whole house media center. I did pay the $10 to Microsoft to add features "Windows Media Center" to my SurfacePro2 running Windows 8.1 OS and would have gladly paid more. (I am planning to add a Ceton InfinTV 6 ETH ethernet cable card network tuner and access it from three PCs).

    I'm surprised that any user would look to abandon the amazing Windows Media Center as long as it works. Jumping ship now, right away, because some day the ship may sink? Probably the same people that sells their car every year to get a new one. (I drive a 1999 and it works great.). That all said, I do wish Microsoft would start "actively developing" on WMC again. I would like to see a feature added to record streaming and on-demand TV so that I can watch my shows at my leisure, even later when they aren't available on-demand or for streaming or the internet is flakey.

    Thank You for supporting Windows Media Center.
    Best Wishes.
    02-19-2015 11:28 AM
  12. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Thank you, everyone for your comments in this forum string. It is a good read and mostly informative.

    Our family is relatively new to WMC, but our story is much like many I have read. EVERY DAY, we use our dedicated PC (SSD for the Windows 7 OS and 3 TB hard disk) with Ceton XfiniTV PCIe 4 tuner card (Comcast M card) and HDMI running to the 58" Panasonic Plasma with XBox 360s on the other TVs.
    Pretty much my setup, 90gb SSD for the OS, all my media (recorded TV gets a 2TB drive) goes on other drives with another 6TB for everything. And a CETON tuner for cablecard.

    At one time (before Comcast should off analog and clear QAM), I had 12 tuners in my MCE machine, this was pretty much unlimited recording for my family, I could record 8 things at one time and still have live TV tuners available for everyone.

    All in a dedicated HTPC case with a VFD (display that shows status), that serves 3 Xbox 360s in the house.

    Love the system, just works awesome and saves us $20+ a month from Comcast.

    Thank You for supporting Windows Media Center.
    Best Wishes.
    I wish more people did, Microsoft made one of their best products ever. Did you know at one time, Microsoft was testing DirecTV and Dish Network add-ons for it for tuners ? Dedicated devices that you could connect up and get TV from those sources.

    See pictures here (You can see Dish Network and Directv)
    http://www.engadget.com/gallery/tour...ts-ehome-labs/

    The eHome team was crazy during it's peak and the rumors that they came out with at that time was AWESOME, just wish a lot of the stuff came to light....

    Microsoft is here in these forums if you are reading this can you give us any incite on this ? IS WMC coming to Windows10 and what is the chance it could be updated (not the same version with 7/8)?
    Last edited by DavidinCT; 02-25-2015 at 02:17 PM.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    02-25-2015 11:21 AM
  13. steverg's Avatar
    I hope WMC never goes away. would be fine if it never was updated, as long as the guide still works who cares, it does what its supposed to.

    also use WMC for a DVR. OTA to an HD home run, then MCEbuddy does comm skip, encodes to mkv, and moves them to my nas. I use plex as a front end to watch anywhere any device. The system is nearly flawless. we only access the WMC interface when wanting to watch live tv which is usually just for things like football games.

    Its so easy to set up its just plain ridiculous. Ive tried 3 other dvr solutions and they all are so difficult to configure.
    03-10-2015 12:43 PM
  14. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Still no update from Microsoft on this....What is the deal here, as I know we have Microsoft employees monitoring this forum ???????
    flyingsolid likes this.
    03-10-2015 02:25 PM
  15. schabelf's Avatar
    I don't suppose there are many users of WMC who use it like I do since practically no one is interested in preserving video by burning to optical media anymore. I collect movies especially older movies by capturing them off of TCM High Def channel and then burning them to AVCHD DVDs. I assure you that the only way to do this is with a cablecard tuner on a PC with WMC. As long as Comcast does not set the record only once bit on TCM channel I will continue to do this and will not upgrade to Windows 10 or any other OS that will not allow this and that means having WMC or some other new program which will replace it completely.
    03-18-2015 11:47 PM
  16. PBarrette's Avatar
    There's a TCM HD channel? I have FiOS and they don't seem to offer it.
    03-23-2015 07:27 PM
  17. Cho CoMo's Avatar
    Oh....Huh......Been using it for 10 years with no problems at all........
    03-25-2015 03:13 PM
  18. Cho CoMo's Avatar
    Only product I am aware of that runs Cable Card tuners .....perfectly.......
    03-25-2015 03:15 PM
  19. warmonked's Avatar
    I've been using WMC regularly to record TV for years. As others have said it's the only way to record all streams (not just the freely-copy flagged ones) from cablecard tuners. There are some comments in the technical preview forums that the Win8 version can be installed in the Win10 preview which is promising, but I think it's extremely unlikely that it will get its much needed face lift.

    There was a comment by an MS executive when Win8 was coming out that the usage numbers for WMC7 are extremely low. Like in the tens of thousands. With usage that low, I can't imagine them devoting any resources to this.

    I was hoping that AndroidTV might incorporate some cablecard support, considering Google is one of the few that might be willing to pay the millions required for cablecard certification, but so far it's looking like they just want to make your typical Apps platform to promote streaming services.
    03-27-2015 12:44 PM
  20. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I've been using WMC regularly to record TV for years. As others have said it's the only way to record all streams (not just the freely-copy flagged ones) from cablecard tuners. There are some comments in the technical preview forums that the Win8 version can be installed in the Win10 preview which is promising, but I think it's extremely unlikely that it will get its much needed face lift.

    There was a comment by an MS executive when Win8 was coming out that the usage numbers for WMC7 are extremely low. Like in the tens of thousands. With usage that low, I can't imagine them devoting any resources to this.

    I was hoping that AndroidTV might incorporate some cablecard support, considering Google is one of the few that might be willing to pay the millions required for cablecard certification, but so far it's looking like they just want to make your typical Apps platform to promote streaming services.
    You could at one point on the WIn 10 preview use your paid for Key and add Media Center to Windows 10, that no longer works.

    Yea, the numbers were low on WMC but, the marketing for it when it was available...how do I put it....it sucked.. They did nothing for marketing accept for 1-2 commercials on Vista days and didn't even show 1/2 of what could be done with it. All it was a 2 second clip that you can watch tv on your PC in a Vista commerial. That is all they did. No wonder it failed.

    If they re-did it and added some good marketing, I think it would do impressively good these days (see my big post, that I copied from another site).

    It's very doubtful that Android could get Cablecard certification. Android is based on linix and that is open source. The requirement for cablecards are for content to be locked down to the machine where it was recorded on. Android might not be able to lock it down like the requirements are stated.

    Also, it's big money to get that kind of certification, not sure any other company would invest in that, Microsoft spent some good money and resources on getting the certs for it.

    I do think it's a product that deserves a return as I think in TODAY's market, I think it would a LOT better than when it came out, it really was ahead of it's time.
    03-27-2015 02:52 PM
  21. jhoff80's Avatar
    It's also not worth the cost for anything else to get CableCard certification really. CableCard is going to be phased out (and probably during the Windows 10 lifetime).
    03-27-2015 03:48 PM
  22. oldpueblo's Avatar
    It's my understanding that it was the cable companies that buried it, they were too difficult to work with and MS knew it would be a nightmare to support it. I mean it wasn't exactly novice level even in its best days. My friend that JUST started using it had a bunch of issues between the cable company and his tuner driver. It literally took days/weeks to get it running consistently well. Too many PC factors could contribute to it not working, many not even related to cable itself. I never have issues myself, but I just chose good hardware I guess and got lucky.
    03-28-2015 09:22 PM
  23. DavidinCT's Avatar
    It's my understanding that it was the cable companies that buried it, they were too difficult to work with and MS knew it would be a nightmare to support it. I mean it wasn't exactly novice level even in its best days. My friend that JUST started using it had a bunch of issues between the cable company and his tuner driver. It literally took days/weeks to get it running consistently well. Too many PC factors could contribute to it not working, many not even related to cable itself. I never have issues myself, but I just chose good hardware I guess and got lucky.
    This is a interesting one.... It's easy to setup...All depends on a few factors, that drivers were installed correctly for the tuner and the Cable company correctly activated the cablecard (this is a big one where most problems happen). In a perfect world, this is possible in a very easy method.

    1. Setup a Windows 7 machine (or 8 with the WMC pack)
    2. Shut down PC and install a internal cablecard tuner, or connect to your network(networkable models).
    3. start windows and Install drivers for your tuner, newest from the website, most come down with Windows update
    4. Install cablecard into tuner (assuring it is inserted correctly).
    5. Run Windows Media Center. When the wizard starts, follow the directions when going through "TV setup"
    6. Let all components install (all happens during TV setup).
    7. Follow the screen about the number to call to Activate your cablecard, it's pulled right down with the phone number to call in TV setup.
    8. Watch TV.

    After this point, you need to edit channels because Media Center does not know the Package you have(no way for MS to get this info). It's not really that complex and anyone who has done minor PC troubleshooting could handle this. Never mind all the manufactures of cablecard tuners have step by step directions for it.

    Adding an Extender ? This could not be easier. Open WMC on the Xbox, Media Center will find the Xbox on the network and ask if you want to add it (or go into setup Extender). Enter the Code in the Xbox, and within 5 min your ready to go.

    This is one of the things Microsoft did a great job with, It is easy to use and easy to setup if all the factors are correct. I am sure there are odd ball problems here and there but, 90% of the problems are minor ones that can be easily take care of.

    I even do troubleshooting on WMC machines via teamviewer, if anyone is stuck with WMC, I can normally resolve most issues within 20 min or so.

    This is one thing that MS did right in WMC....

    It's also not worth the cost for anything else to get CableCard certification really. CableCard is going to be phased out (and probably during the Windows 10 lifetime).
    Not sure about that, It's still mandatory from the FCC that a cable company HAS to offer a cablecard option.

    There are other "appliances" like the Tivo that use cablecards and there still are TVs on the market that have a cablecard slot on them (not too many in the last few years tho). Never mind the companies who are in business because of this. If someone tries to kill it, it will have a large battle in court.

    Will it go away, sure in time, but, by the time Windows 10 is released, I don't think so. You will see the cablecard OPTION available for many years.

    If not intill MS finally kill all support for WMC, and that is around 2018 or 2020, As it's available for Windows 8 and the rumor mill is staying it will be an option with Windows 10 as well, just extending the life for WMC even longer.
    03-31-2015 10:27 AM
  24. jhoff80's Avatar
    The FCC has approved non CableCard cable boxes in the past few years, and alternatives are being investigated (such as an IP-based authentication solution). Meanwhile, there's only around ~600,000 CableCard users in the US. I don't see CableCard lasting more than another few years.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm clinging to WMC and my HDhomerun Prime for as long as I can... but the market has clearly moved on, and there's no financial incentive there.
    03-31-2015 11:33 AM
  25. David Youngclaus's Avatar
    Media center will not work on Win10 Preview. Will have to wait for the real thing. I certainly hope WMC ends up being available because I too use a TV tuner ( no other solution is near as good) and record my programs. Do not upgrade a production PC with WMC to the Preview as it will not have WMC and therefore 'bork' your configuration. Win7 supported until 2020 so be PATIENT.
    04-13-2015 05:56 PM
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