1. cool8man's Avatar
    Would really like to install Windows 10 preview on my 8" and 10" tablets and kick the tires (mainly for Cortana and the notification center), but I have some questions related to functionality that are making me think it would be more of a downgrade than an upgrade right now. Back when the technical preview came out a lot of people said Windows 10 was a bad idea to install on a tablet in it's current state, so I held off thinking things would be ready by the consumer preview. I watched the whole Windows 10 event and these are my questions and concerns:

    Issue #1: The browser

    My biggest concern is the web browser. Spartan is not available yet and is still of questionable design for a tablet with all of it's controls and tabs placed at the top of the screen. Is Windows 8 Modern IE browser available in the current builds or would I have to use the old desktop IE on my tablets? I like having the tabs and URL at the bottom of the screen on a tablet (especially in portrait mode).

    I'm fairly certain desktop IE would be terrible to use on my 8-10" tablets, I've tried it many times and the buttons/menus/tabs are too small and fiddly for a tiny touch screen, not to mention everything is at the top of the screen which sucks on a portrait tablet. I live in the browser so this browser issue alone would make Windows 10 feel like an enormous downgrade from Windows 8.1.

    Issue #2: No charms functionality?

    Microsoft didn't make it clear in any of their presentations how you make use of the now non-existent charm functionality on a tablet. I know if you have a mouse you can easily access things (share, print, settings, etc.) from a small drop down menu, but how does this function on a small tablet? So if I want to share something inside of a Modern app on a small tablet how is that accomplished without the charms? I wish they would have explained this.

    Issue #3: Swiping up in Modern apps + the taskbar

    Basically, does swiping up in Modern apps still bring up the app's menu items? It has to right? It seems like they are forcing you to use the taskbar on tablets now, does the taskbar get in the way when you use the swipe up gesture on tablets? I don't want to accidentally activate taskbar items when trying to use the Modern apps.

    Is there a way to hide the taskbar when using Modern apps so that you continue to get full screen? On an 8" tablet every pixel counts. When I'm watching a video, Netflix, reading a book, or browsing a website is the taskbar always there wasting pixel space on the screen? Is there an option to only have the taskbar show up when you're using the desktop or when you swipe up on the screen.


    Silly Question: micro SD


    Anyway to install or dual boot Windows 10 on a microSD card? I'm working with 32GB tablets so there's not much room for dual booting. I have class 10 cards, but I'm guessing it's still not supported for OS installs. Are you able to install apps on microSD yet or is that still not supported?

    Thank you for reading my questions + Bonus conundrum:

    Joe Belfiore said during the press event that all Windows devices under 8" would get the Windows phone version of Windows 10. Does that mean devices like the HP Stream 7 tablet will get Windows phone's OS and apps and lose the desktop/legacy programs that it can access today? Should all tablet users have the option to choose the Windows 10 phone interface? I have older parents who use 8-10" Windows tablets/2-in-1's who are overwhelmed and confused by the desktop. In Windows 8 I simply minimized or removed the desktop tile to keep them from getting into old programs that would frustrate/confuse them on a touch screen tablet. I'm a little worried Windows 10 will be too complicated and frustrating for them with tiny menus and taskbar icons. I just bought my mom an 8" tablet and it's already hard enough for her to read some items icons on the screen, some things in Windows 10 seem like they would be impossible for her to use.
    Last edited by cool8man; 01-23-2015 at 11:30 PM.
    01-23-2015 10:38 PM
  2. Asskickulater's Avatar
    well, dont have a tablet (my 1520 phablet is good enough for me :P) so I can't answer most of these, but I will say that, if your device has an x86 architecture (in other words it's running full windows and not winrt) then it will keep the full version of windows, even if microsoft wanted to force your tab to use the mobile version of windows, you cant force an ARM os on x86 hardware, so don't worry there.
    01-23-2015 11:24 PM
  3. CRDeveloper's Avatar
    Very good questions, wondering the same... I want to upgrade the Toshiba Encore 2 WT8-B264M
    01-23-2015 11:38 PM
  4. ausidog's Avatar
    I'm using it on a 1st/2nd gen Asus Netbook. Trust me, it's not so bad. You should go for it, but beware, it's still very buggy. It sounds like you're hesitant because this is your go-to tablet. If that's the case, you may want to hold off simply because it may be too buggy to use reliably, everyday.
    01-23-2015 11:41 PM
  5. Br1t's Avatar
    All good questions, questions that have had me not even considering this for my Omni 10. I will wait it out possibly till release before updating and keep testing on my old laptop.
    01-24-2015 08:57 AM
  6. sjaak327's Avatar
    Microsoft has thrown everything that was good from Windows 8 away. Windows 10 in it's current state will not get anywhere near my tablet. And the way they are going I doubt it ever will.
    01-24-2015 09:09 AM
  7. Marcos Buccella's Avatar
    Microsoft has thrown everything that was good from Windows 8 away. Windows 10 in it's current state will not get anywhere near my tablet. And the way they are going I doubt it ever will.
    Could you please tell me what's so different from Win8 and 10 on a ttablet? I don't see that many differences
    01-24-2015 09:11 AM
  8. sjaak327's Avatar
    For starters since build 9926 the option to have the start screen is gone. Whilst build 9901 offered user the choice to revert to the start screen found in Windows 8.1, they have now specifically removed that option.

    Whilst one could maximize the current start menu, the functionality it offers differs greatly from the start screen. It is usable on a desktop pc, but lacks many of the good features found on the start screen.

    1) no horizontal scrolling, we are back to vertical scrolling
    2) no inline search anymore, search is using the taksbar search box, the taskbar is always visible even if tablet mode is selected. It really boggles the mind why someone would think this would make sense on a tablet, where screen real estate is a concern. What happened to metro's focus on content ? If you auto-hide the taskbar, search doesn't work anymore.
    3) no apparent way to select multiple tiles
    4) the grouping and naming of groups has gotten worse
    5) on the left there is this space with places and most used that cannot be removed and thus is taking real estate away from the purpose of a start screen which is launching appliations.
    6) the all app list will replace this left side list, which again employs vertical scrolling and is too small and cluttered on a tablet. What was wrong with swiping up and revealing a sortable all apps list ?:
    7) resizing tiles is seriously broken '

    The above makes this start menu almost unusable on a tablet device.

    Now, the OP already pointed out the other problems:

    1) No charms bar, a big step back
    2) No touch browser (this will hopefully change with Spartan, but what I have seen, the focus is not on the content anymore, with even the address bar and tabs at the top instead of the bottom which makes much more sense on tablet devices. Modern IE had all the boxes ticked in this aspect, hidden controls that would show when swiped up, therfore allowing full focus on the content and as a bonus had all controls at the bottom which makes much more sense on a tablet. So we are certainly going a big step back in this aspect.
    3) taskbar always visible, even when touch mode is selected

    Microsoft really needs to change this if they want current tablet users to upgrade to Windows 10 as the problems posted above are very compelling reasons to stay with Windows 8.1.

    What is really disappointing is their removal of the option to use the start screen, which indicates they have not learned from the mistake they made with Windows 8. This time they probably won't offend Windows 7 users, but they have already alienated this particular Windows 8 user. All they need to do is offer me the choice of running the start screen instead of this botched thing that is supposedly making everyone happy.

    And the worst is, they offered that choice in all of the preview builds of Windows 10 except the latest one, which indicates this option will no longer exist. Throwing away perfectly functional code that offends royal Windows 8 users. Thanks Microsoft !
    01-24-2015 09:34 AM
  9. JamesDax's Avatar
    For starters since build 9926 the option to have the start screen is gone. Whilst build 9901 offered user the choice to revert to the start screen found in Windows 8.1, they have now specifically removed that option.

    Whilst one could maximize the current start menu, the functionality it offers differs greatly from the start screen. It is usable on a desktop pc, but lacks many of the good features found on the start screen.

    1) no horizontal scrolling, we are back to vertical scrolling
    2) no inline search anymore, search is using the taksbar search box, the taskbar is always visible even if tablet mode is selected. It really boggles the mind why someone would think this would make sense on a tablet, where screen real estate is a concern. What happened to metro's focus on content ? If you auto-hide the taskbar, search doesn't work anymore.
    3) no apparent way to select multiple tiles
    4) the grouping and naming of groups has gotten worse
    5) on the left there is this space with places and most used that cannot be removed and thus is taking real estate away from the purpose of a start screen which is launching appliations.
    6) the all app list will replace this left side list, which again employs vertical scrolling and is too small and cluttered on a tablet. What was wrong with swiping up and revealing a sortable all apps list ?:
    7) resizing tiles is seriously broken '

    The above makes this start menu almost unusable on a tablet device.

    Now, the OP already pointed out the other problems:

    1) No charms bar, a big step back
    2) No touch browser (this will hopefully change with Spartan, but what I have seen, the focus is not on the content anymore, with even the address bar and tabs at the top instead of the bottom which makes much more sense on tablet devices. Modern IE had all the boxes ticked in this aspect, hidden controls that would show when swiped up, therfore allowing full focus on the content and as a bonus had all controls at the bottom which makes much more sense on a tablet. So we are certainly going a big step back in this aspect.
    3) taskbar always visible, even when touch mode is selected

    Microsoft really needs to change this if they want current tablet users to upgrade to Windows 10 as the problems posted above are very compelling reasons to stay with Windows 8.1.

    What is really disappointing is their removal of the option to use the start screen, which indicates they have not learned from the mistake they made with Windows 8. This time they probably won't offend Windows 7 users, but they have already alienated this particular Windows 8 user. All they need to do is offer me the choice of running the start screen instead of this botched thing that is supposedly making everyone happy.

    And the worst is, they offered that choice in all of the preview builds of Windows 10 except the latest one, which indicates this option will no longer exist. Throwing away perfectly functional code that offends royal Windows 8 users. Thanks Microsoft !
    So much misinformed crying. Sad really.

    smdh
    horseybob likes this.
    01-24-2015 10:57 AM
  10. Juan Stevens's Avatar
    It's not misinformed crying. I'm a power user and this build is so painful on a tablet.
    sjaak327 likes this.
    01-24-2015 01:28 PM
  11. slyronit's Avatar
    I got it on my HP Omni 10. It is not as buggy as the previous releases.

    The main problem is, I spent the last few years getting used to Win 8 gestures and now we have to get used to these new ones. To answer your questions

    1. Modern IE is missing. A Powershell script workaround which worked on the previous preview releases doesn't work anymore. However, unlike Windows 8, the desktop IE is slightly better. When you switch to tablet mode, it automatically makes icons bigger. Also, clicking on text boxes automatically brings up the keyboard.
    2. No charms. Now you have to use the app's own menu, which is three dots on the upper left corner.
    3. Swiping up doesn't work. Most apps now have those options in the app's interface itself in the hamburger 🍔 menu.
    4. You might be able to install on Micro SD, but clean install on tablets is a major pain, because of driver issues.

    Bonus Conundrum: No, that's stupid. All x86 tablets, regardless of the screen size will get the same Windows 10. It's speculated that ARM tablets running Windows RT might get the phone version of Windows.
    cool8man likes this.
    01-24-2015 01:41 PM
  12. Juan Stevens's Avatar
    Would really like to install Windows 10 preview on my 8" and 10" tablets and kick the tires (mainly for Cortana and the notification center), but I have some questions related to functionality that are making me think it would be more of a downgrade than an upgrade right now. Back when the technical preview came out a lot of people said Windows 10 was a bad idea to install on a tablet in it's current state, so I held off thinking things would be ready by the consumer preview. I watched the whole Windows 10 event and these are my questions and concerns:

    Issue #1: The browser

    My biggest concern is the web browser. Spartan is not available yet and is still of questionable design for a tablet with all of it's controls and tabs placed at the top of the screen. Is Windows 8 Modern IE browser available in the current builds or would I have to use the old desktop IE on my tablets? I like having the tabs and URL at the bottom of the screen on a tablet (especially in portrait mode).

    I'm fairly certain desktop IE would be terrible to use on my 8-10" tablets, I've tried it many times and the buttons/menus/tabs are too small and fiddly for a tiny touch screen, not to mention everything is at the top of the screen which sucks on a portrait tablet. I live in the browser so this browser issue alone would make Windows 10 feel like an enormous downgrade from Windows 8.1.

    Issue #2: No charms functionality?

    Microsoft didn't make it clear in any of their presentations how you make use of the now non-existent charm functionality on a tablet. I know if you have a mouse you can easily access things (share, print, settings, etc.) from a small drop down menu, but how does this function on a small tablet? So if I want to share something inside of a Modern app on a small tablet how is that accomplished without the charms? I wish they would have explained this.

    Issue #3: Swiping up in Modern apps + the taskbar

    Basically, does swiping up in Modern apps still bring up the app's menu items? It has to right? It seems like they are forcing you to use the taskbar on tablets now, does the taskbar get in the way when you use the swipe up gesture on tablets? I don't want to accidentally activate taskbar items when trying to use the Modern apps.

    Is there a way to hide the taskbar when using Modern apps so that you continue to get full screen? On an 8" tablet every pixel counts. When I'm watching a video, Netflix, reading a book, or browsing a website is the taskbar always there wasting pixel space on the screen? Is there an option to only have the taskbar show up when you're using the desktop or when you swipe up on the screen.


    Silly Question: micro SD


    Anyway to install or dual boot Windows 10 on a microSD card? I'm working with 32GB tablets so there's not much room for dual booting. I have class 10 cards, but I'm guessing it's still not supported for OS installs. Are you able to install apps on microSD yet or is that still not supported?

    Thank you for reading my questions + Bonus conundrum:

    Joe Belfiore said during the press event that all Windows devices under 8" would get the Windows phone version of Windows 10. Does that mean devices like the HP Stream 7 tablet will get Windows phone's OS and apps and lose the desktop/legacy programs that it can access today? Should all tablet users have the option to choose the Windows 10 phone interface? I have older parents who use 8-10" Windows tablets/2-in-1's who are overwhelmed and confused by the desktop. In Windows 8 I simply minimized or removed the desktop tile to keep them from getting into old programs that would frustrate/confuse them on a touch screen tablet. I'm a little worried Windows 10 will be too complicated and frustrating for them with tiny menus and taskbar icons. I just bought my mom an 8" tablet and it's already hard enough for her to read some items icons on the screen, some things in Windows 10 seem like they would be impossible for her to use.
    I installed the JTP on my SP3. I'm honestly thinking about reverting exactly for the questions you have and more. Using it on a tablet is painful. A lot of it is related to browsing but not just that. It seems they took all of the reasons why 8.1 was such a good experience on tablets and threw them out. If they put the same options that were in the charms bar like, screen brightness, volume adjustment, etc., into the activity bar then that would be a big help. Using the non metro version of IE is total torture. The start menu takes on the same size as the windows desktop so everything is smaller. I miss the devices button so I can't stream video to my Xbox one. I won't even talk about OneDrive. I'm really hoping that a lot of this gets sorted out. But the problem is in the past when I thought obvious issues would get sorted out, they never did. Like they never use windows themselves to see obvious holes. In other words, if you used 8.1 on a tablet, do NOT stay quiet. Speak up! I just have this fear that if this current build is a state of things to come, MS will push more people to android and ios for tablets. I KNOW this version is to help transition desktop users but it shouldn't at the cost of people who loved 8.1. I'm about as much a power user as you're going to get. I never had issues with 8.1 on my desktop and I liked it. All we probably needed were windowed store apps. But as it looks now, tablet use is an afterthought. All that work about thumb placement on tablets seems to have gone out the window. I understand the dislike for stephen and previous management but you don't throw away all the work.

    But who knows maybe I'm just worrying and there's a plan for improvement. But as a long Microsoft user, I won't hold my breath.
    cool8man and Rewire like this.
    01-24-2015 01:41 PM
  13. sjaak327's Avatar
    Misinformed crying ? The only sad thing here is your remark which is way of base. All that I wrote is factual based upon what I witnessed using the build concerned.
    01-24-2015 05:31 PM
  14. sjaak327's Avatar
    I installed the JTP on my SP3. I'm honestly thinking about reverting exactly for the questions you have and more. Using it on a tablet is painful. A lot of it is related to browsing but not just that. It seems they took all of the reasons why 8.1 was such a good experience on tablets and threw them out. If they put the same options that were in the charms bar like, screen brightness, volume adjustment, etc., into the activity bar then that would be a big help. Using the non metro version of IE is total torture. The start menu takes on the same size as the windows desktop so everything is smaller. I miss the devices button so I can't stream video to my Xbox one. I won't even talk about OneDrive. I'm really hoping that a lot of this gets sorted out. But the problem is in the past when I thought obvious issues would get sorted out, they never did. Like they never use windows themselves to see obvious holes. In other words, if you used 8.1 on a tablet, do NOT stay quiet. Speak up! I just have this fear that if this current build is a state of things to come, MS will push more people to android and ios for tablets. I KNOW this version is to help transition desktop users but it shouldn't at the cost of people who loved 8.1. I'm about as much a power user as you're going to get. I never had issues with 8.1 on my desktop and I liked it. All we probably needed were windowed store apps. But as it looks now, tablet use is an afterthought. All that work about thumb placement on tablets seems to have gone out the window. I understand the dislike for stephen and previous management but you don't throw away all the work.

    But who knows maybe I'm just worrying and there's a plan for improvement. But as a long Microsoft user, I won't hold my breath.
    I am with you and I did speak up, not only here but at various places. With the September tech preview I had hope that continuum or tablet mode would solve the problems I had with this OS on tablets, but four months further down the line they made matters worse. They removed the start screen options, and tablet mode just maximizes applications, they aren't full screen.

    Yes you could press the new full screen arrow (for lack of a better word) but I shouldn't have to do that if I specifically select tablet mode. And even pressing it doesn't solve it, as the minute you switch apps, it is reverted back to maximized.

    Why does Microsoft believe that having the taskbar everywhere is a good idea on a tablet. Why are they throwing everything that made Windows 8 a great OS away ?

    I get it that they want to appeal more to the Windows 7 crowd, but they have only marginally improved the desktop side of things and have pretty much abandoned everything that made Metro a great tablet environment.

    Either they make due on their one OS to run on everything or they should make Windows a desktop only OS. I firmly believe Windows 8.1 being the closest Microsoft will ever be to this one OS to run everywhere.

    Windows 10 in it's current form isn't suitable on tablets and offers no incentive whatsoever for any Windows 8.1 user to upgrade, in fact running IOS with all it's limitations would make more sense. And I am sad I just said that, but it is the truth.

    Nadella talked about wanting people to love Windows, guess what I love Windows 8, but I cannot possibly love Windows 10, four or five previews later it is still not a viable replacement for Windows 8, with each new build they are making matters worse. Thanks for throwing your most loyal customers under the bus Nadella. Can we get Ballmer back please :)
    cool8man likes this.
    01-24-2015 05:51 PM
  15. Zulfigar's Avatar
    Misinformation or not, I'm glad this topic is around and would like if someone could make a video to help point out some problems. * Hint to Daniel if he reads this, using one of his many tablets ;)*
    01-24-2015 05:53 PM
  16. cool8man's Avatar
    Ugh. It sounds like they so far have completely destroyed much of the tablet functionality that worked well in Windows 8. It almost sounds like a regression back to the old Tablet PC days where things technically worked but it was a chore to use. Doesn't make any sense to me why they wouldn't keep stuff like the start screen, charms and the modern IE interface for the Continuum mode. What is the point of the Continuum mode, if it doesn't sound like it changes the interface much at all? All Continuum does is make apps maximize and IE touch points slightly larger?

    What are they thinking? Is Microsoft giving up on the tablet market without actually admitting it? I can't see what they're showing right now ever being accepted by tablet users as a good tablet experience. I have 6 Windows tablets in my home now so they better fix Windows 10 on tablets or I'm going to be very pissed off.
    01-24-2015 10:32 PM
  17. peestandingup's Avatar
    This is beta software & is meant for real discussions about bugs, things that need fixed, polish, etc.

    Windows apologists, there's the door. If you don't wanna hear criticism, you're in the wrong sub forum.
    01-25-2015 05:34 AM

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