01-30-2015 12:54 AM
105 12345
tools
  1. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Among other things yes, for other reasons I would like to refer to the OP, it's all in there.

    To summarize, the vertical scrolling, no inline search and the useless stuff on the left that is way to tiny for my fingers (and I have small fingers).

    The main probem here is that Microsoft is determined to throw everything that made 8.1 a great tablet OS away. It's not just the start screen, it's the task switching, the charms bar and the full screen experience, that all are gone from this build. Not to mention the sorry replacement for the all apps list.

    They are clearly heading in the wrong direction and are making the exact same mistakes they did when they introduced Windows 8.

    There is no reason to rip out perfectly functioning code, they don't need to reinvent the wheel, they have other avenues to please the desktop crowd, without alienating the tablet crowd.

    Remember, they claim this OS can run on various different form factors, and that they want to get people to love Windows. How could a tablet user love Windows as it is now, the way they are going it won't approach Windows 8.1 not even close. Leave the stuff in and change the desktop, it's hardly rocket science.
    I have fat fingers and I can hit the apps in the menu. I agree about the charms bar, but that's about it. Task switching is just as good to me, and I'm sure full screen is coming back.

    ​edit: Just made the mail app full screen...
    01-25-2015 02:54 PM
  2. sjaak327's Avatar
    I have fat fingers and I can hit the apps in the menu. I agree about the charms bar, but that's about it. Task switching is jus as good to me, and I'm sure full screen is coming back.
    Let's hope full screen is coming back. I don't want to see the task bar when I am using it on a tablet.

    My main point remains choice. You have no problem using the new start experience, I could use it as well, but much prefer the 8.1 start experience.

    So why not offer me that choice, just as they should have offered the choice with Windows 8, so that Windows 7 users could choose between the start screen and the start menu. It's only code, it wouldn't have hurt anybody to leave that option in.

    In fact, it did hurt somebody, and that somebody is making the same mistake again. Microsoft has Always allowed users to go back to previous start experiences, such as the classic shell in XP. But lately they are determined to remove that choice and rip out code that would have probably greatly increased adoption of Windows 8.

    This time around they might get lucky, but the desktop crowd is also all over the insider forums complaining about this new xaml start menu, so it looks like they are right on course for an even greater disaster.

    In any case, I am glad you have no problems with the touch interface in this iteration of the OS. I do, I think it is just barely useable, and when I consider four months of progress, I actually believe things are getting worse on the touch front. I see very little improvement and great regression.

    That new browser also doesn't fill me with great expectations, address bar at the top, tabs at the top and apparently visible all the time, guess metro just lost it's focus on content.
    01-25-2015 03:03 PM
  3. user4545's Avatar
    It's likely removed because it will be possible to have Live tiles on the desktop.
    01-25-2015 03:05 PM
  4. TheCudder's Avatar
    It's likely removed because it will be possible to have Live tiles on the desktop.
    This would make zero sense, there would be no reason to have the in the start menu if that were the case. This build simply isn't focused on the touch design of Windows 10. People have already suggested it, but I doubt Microsoft is going to give into Live Tile's on the Desktop.
    01-25-2015 03:10 PM
  5. sjaak327's Avatar
    This would make zero sense, there would be no reason to have the in the start menu if that were the case. This build simply isn't focused on the touch design of Windows 10. People have already suggested it, but I doubt Microsoft is going to give into Live Tile's on the Desktop.
    It would in a way be a return to the gadgets that debuted in vista. I personally like the idea but agree that this probably won't happen.
    01-25-2015 03:13 PM
  6. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Let's hope full screen is coming back. I don't want to see the task bar when I am using it on a tablet.

    My main point remains choice. You have no problem using the new start experience, I could use it as well, but much prefer the 8.1 start experience.

    So why not offer me that choice, just as they should have offered the choice with Windows 8, so that Windows 7 users could choose between the start screen and the start menu. It's only code, it wouldn't have hurt anybody to leave that option in.

    In fact, it did hurt somebody, and that somebody is making the same mistake again. Microsoft has Always allowed users to go back to previous start experiences, such as the classic shell in XP. But lately they are determined to remove that choice and rip out code that would have probably greatly increased adoption of Windows 8.

    This time around they might get lucky, but the desktop crowd is also all over the insider forums complaining about this new xaml start menu, so it looks like they are right on course for an even greater disaster.

    In any case, I am glad you have no problems with the touch interface in this iteration of the OS. I do, I think it is just barely useable, and when I consider four months of progress, I actually believe things are getting worse on the touch front. I see very little improvement and great regression.

    That new browser also doesn't fill me with great expectations, address bar at the top, tabs at the top and apparently visible all the time, guess metro just lost it's focus on content.
    ​You could go back to the old start menu in Vista and 7?
    01-25-2015 04:10 PM
  7. mcheiron's Avatar
    I agree with OP. I hope that this is just a little change that MS is trying out and seeing what the feedback is. Well, I did give them my feedback for the current tablet mode and how useful it is. I do know they mentioned that a lot of improvements are coming to the tablet mode, but I also think that they want feedback as early as possible. That's what we are there for.
    01-25-2015 04:12 PM
  8. Xabier Granja's Avatar
    Well, I've said this so many times in the past 4 days, I'm getting tired of it... let me put it in all caps, see if the message gets through:

    THIS IS A TECHNICAL PREVIEW. IT IS UNFINISHED SOFTWARE. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL NOR IS IT FULL FEATURED YET.

    Did that do it this time? Did the message finally get through some people's thick skulls? Maybe if I add a bit more color and boldness:

    THIS IS A TECHNICAL PREVIEW. IT IS UNFINISHED SOFTWARE. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL NOR IS IT FULL FEATURED YET.

    Now?

    Wait for the final version if you want good software for 7 or 8 upgraders.
    JamesDax likes this.
    01-25-2015 04:12 PM
  9. sjaak327's Avatar
    Well, I've said this so many times in the past 4 days, I'm getting tired of it... let me put it in all caps, see if the message gets through:

    THIS IS A TECHNICAL PREVIEW. IT IS UNFINISHED SOFTWARE. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL NOR IS IT FULL FEATURED YET.

    Did that do it this time? Did the message finally get through some people's thick skulls? Maybe if I add a bit more color and boldness:

    THIS IS A TECHNICAL PREVIEW. IT IS UNFINISHED SOFTWARE. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL NOR IS IT FULL FEATURED YET.

    Now?

    Wait for the final version if you want good software for 7 or 8 upgraders.
    There is no need to put anything in caps, we are not idiots and are perfectly aware of what you trying to say. What is the purpose of a tech preview if we cannot discuss and criticise the actual builds. Should I put this in caps so that you might understand ?

    Really getting tired at the misplaced captain Obvious stuff. The purpose of a tech preview is to discuss the direction the software is going.

    Waiting for the final product completely makes any tech preview useless and pointless.

    Come back if you grasp the concept of a tech preview as envisioned by Microsoft.
    sahib lopez and Kram Sacul like this.
    01-25-2015 04:19 PM
  10. sjaak327's Avatar
    ​You could go back to the old start menu in Vista and 7?
    No idea, I never wanted to. Is this supposed to make removal of choice seem justified, if it is, you might want to try a little harder.

    I don't get it, does it personally hurt you when people like me are getting choice ?
    01-25-2015 04:22 PM
  11. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    No idea, I never wanted to. Is this supposed to make removal of choice seem justified, if it is, you might want to try a little harder.

    I don't get it, does it personally hurt you when people like me are getting choice ?
    ​You stated that Microsoft always let you go back. I'm calling you out on your incorrect statement. Also, I'd rather they focus their resources as much as possible. Would you rather have two buggy solutions or one working one?
    01-25-2015 04:34 PM
  12. sjaak327's Avatar
    ​You stated that Microsoft always let you go back. I'm calling you out on your incorrect statement. Also, I'd rather they focus their resources as much as possible. Would you rather have two buggy solutions or one working one?
    I did mention XP specifically which I believe was indeed correct. Also I remember there definitely where options to change the startmenu to resembe the one that was in NT5 in both Vista and 7. I don't understand your desire to take this off topic to be honest, it achieves nothing at all.

    I don't like buggy solutions, and in fact the feature I want back isn't buggy at all, it is working code used by millions each and every day. Maybe the point of this thread might be that one working solution isn't possible and maybe I am desperately trying to point this out. In any case, they don't need to waste resources on code that is already in the product now do they.

    But to be honest, if they offer me the choice, I couldn't care less about how much they mess up the current iteration, as some poster said earlier, they could make it sing halleluja for all I care.
    01-25-2015 04:41 PM
  13. JamesDax's Avatar
    There is no need to put anything in caps, we are not idiots and are perfectly aware of what you trying to say. What is the purpose of a tech preview if we cannot discuss and criticise the actual builds. Should I put this in caps so that you might understand ?

    Really getting tired at the misplaced captain Obvious stuff. The purpose of a tech preview is to discuss the direction the software is going.

    Waiting for the final product completely makes any tech preview useless and pointless.

    Come back if you grasp the concept of a tech preview as envisioned by Microsoft.
    ​Discuss and criticize. Is that what's going on here? Because it looks like a bunch of ******** and crying to me. You guys are behaving like that this is indeed a final product and the MS has betrayed you. MS put and app in this build specifically for you to give feedback about what you like and don't . USE IT!!
    01-25-2015 04:51 PM
  14. sjaak327's Avatar
    ​Discuss and criticize. Is that what's going on here? Because it looks like a bunch of ******** and crying to me. You guys are behaving like that this is indeed a final product and the MS has betrayed you. MS put and app in this build specifically for you to give feedback about what you like and don't . USE IT!!
    I used the APP, so now you are saying I cannot additionally post a thread on here to discuss ? I seem to remember this being a forum and the section this thread is in seems to be called "Windows 10 tech preview".

    Strange, a forum where people aren't allowed to discuss the subject at hand.

    Again, if you don't like it, ignore it and let other people discuss.

    By the way, I am not behaving like this is the final product, but I do see and discussed the direction in which they seem to be going.

    But I am guessing the last line will go right over your head and the other people screaming IT ISN"T FINAL. So utterly stupid and useless.
    sahib lopez likes this.
    01-25-2015 04:56 PM
  15. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    I did mention XP specifically which I believe was indeed correct. Also I remember there definitely where options to change the startmenu to resembe the one that was in NT5 in both Vista and 7. I don't understand your desire to take this off topic to be honest, it achieves nothing at all.

    I don't like buggy solutions, and in fact the feature I want back isn't buggy at all, it is working code used by millions each and every day. Maybe the point of this thread might be that one working solution isn't possible and maybe I am desperately trying to point this out. In any case, they don't need to waste resources on code that is already in the product now do they.

    But to be honest, if they offer me the choice, I couldn't care less about how much they mess up the current iteration, as some poster said earlier, they could make it sing halleluja for all I care.

    ​Nice to know you have the 'as long as I get mine' attitude.
    01-25-2015 05:08 PM
  16. sjaak327's Avatar
    ​Nice to know you have the 'as long as I get mine' attitude.
    Haha, I knew you would say that. Let me rephrase, I hope they make that new start menu the best it could possible be, but if given the choice I won't use it, so naturally it's functionality is of no concern to me.

    The best thing of all of this is that you and me both are happy. Microsoft, take note, choice is happiness, no choice isn't.

    One can dream, the reality quite clearly will be that this new start menu IS my concern as I will likely be forced to use it if I ever decide to upgrade. At least I got until 2023 to consider this or future iterations onto my tablet. Hell by that time my current tablet will have died and I might get an iPad again :)
    01-25-2015 05:11 PM
  17. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Haha, I knew you would say that. Let me rephrase, I hope they make that new start menu the best it could possible be, but if given the choice I won't use it, so naturally it's functionality is of no concern to me.
    ​I take it you're sticking with Windows 8.1 then?
    01-25-2015 05:14 PM
  18. klose91's Avatar
    Why the hate? Calm down...
    Everybody here knows that it's not a final product, and things aren't working as they should and that they're still playing around with the stuff and that you can get a dancing Steve Ballmer as Windows Logo in the final build. But as sjaak327 said, it's a forum, where you can discuss stuff you discovered in the build that you didn't like since it also shows a direction where MS is heading with the next Windows. So, if you fear that MS will do stupid things, than someone should be able to discuss it, without making such rants on the topic... Yeah, there's a feedback app, but why shouldn't it be okay to make a feedback in the app and then discussing the stuff here?
    sjaak327, Paul May and Blkacesvf41 like this.
    01-25-2015 05:16 PM
  19. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Why the hate? Calm down...
    Everybody here knows that it's not a final product, and things aren't working as they should and that they're still playing around with the stuff and that you can get a dancing Steve Ballmer as Windows Logo in the final build. But as sjaak327 said, it's a forum, where you can discuss stuff you discovered in the build that you didn't like since it also shows a direction where MS is heading with the next Windows. So, if you fear that MS will do stupid things, than someone should be able to discuss it, without making such rants on the topic... Yeah, there's a feedback app, but why shouldn't it be okay to make a feedback in the app and then discussing the stuff here?
    ​They discussions around here usually have a ton of 'the worst possible thing', so they're less discussions and more rants.
    JamesDax likes this.
    01-25-2015 05:22 PM
  20. sjaak327's Avatar
    ​I take it you're sticking with Windows 8.1 then?
    That depends of course, as long as Microsoft offers me the choice to go back there would be no need to stick with 8.1. but unfortunately it's not only the start screen, there is much more going on here.

    As said they seem to be redoing everything that made Windows 8.1 great on tablets, whilst they should focus on making it better for desktop users without throwing everything away and starting over.
    I will wait and see, but as I already said the direction they seem to be going coupled with the progress made in four months doesn't make me hopeful.
    mjrtoo and Kram Sacul like this.
    01-25-2015 05:24 PM
  21. sjaak327's Avatar
    ​They discussions around here usually have a ton of 'the worst possible thing', so they're less discussions and more rants.
    This isn't a rant, this is a thread where I express genuine concern about a product I have loved for over two decades.

    I would hope I am allowed to express these concerns, and will ignore the juvenile posts by people who often didn't even bother to read the content.

    Disclaimer, I am not referring to you of course.
    01-25-2015 05:26 PM
  22. Visa Declined's Avatar
    Am I the only one around here that thinks the latest build is fantastic? I've spent way more time at my desktop today than I normally do, just trying to soak it all in. Damn it looks good, I haven't been this excited about Windows since the Longhorn builds started leaking back in the day.
    01-25-2015 05:31 PM
  23. sjaak327's Avatar
    Am I the only one around here that thinks the latest build is fantastic? I've spent way more time at my desktop today than I normally do, just trying to soak it all in. Damn it looks good, I haven't been this excited about Windows since the Longhorn builds started leaking back in the day.
    Well on the desktop I have few complaints, but I am also a tablet user, and here the general impression is much less favorable.
    01-25-2015 05:33 PM
  24. kamikaze80's Avatar
    Desktop user here. I love the Start Screen, it's aesthetically pleasing and I can get to my pinned programs and websites quickly, and get info on emails, stocks, etc at a glance. I have lovely background images. It's great. The Start Menu, on the other hand, is a useless, ugly relic.

    But there's no more option to use the Start Screen in W10? What happens if a keyboard and mouse guy like me puts Windows in tablet mode?
    sjaak327 and robinleck like this.
    01-25-2015 09:42 PM
  25. dKp1977's Avatar
    The difference is 8.1 was a finished product, this is a WORK IN PROGRESS and Microsoft clearly said THE TOUCH STUFF IS NOT FINISHED YET so stop whining that it's unfinished in a pre-release technical preview FFS. You have no business running the TP if you can't even understand that, you're just bogging things down with your uneducated whining and wasting everybody's time.

    This is what the preview is, they take away features and build them, put them back in, disable features temporarily. Install Xp and stop whining.
    The OP already stated that he's fully aware of this being a tech preview. And he's far from whining - unlike many many many other threads and posts that flood these forums day by day (where's my fookin' denim update? *whimper*). He definitely has some valid points here. And he's asking for options and not to change things to his liking in favor of what others may prefer.
    Fact is, yes, this is a tech preview. But Microsoft is even explicitly asking for feedback. Heck, that's the very reason they're even running this public preview. They WANT to know what you consider good and what not. They do want you to use their feedback app(s) of course, but isn't a forum meant for discussing things and finding out if people share your thoughts or not?
    01-26-2015 01:20 AM
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