Start Screen option removed WHY ?

sjaak327

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They're not getting rid of the start menu, they're changing it.

Nope, they have removed both the resizeable start menu and the option to use the start screen instead and have created a new start menu. The regedit key discussed a few posts back confirms this. They might revert back, but I have little faith they actually will.

They aren't changing the start menu that was in previous builds, they created a new one. They supposedly are going to add features back to this new start menu. The problem with that is, that the start screen in previous builds (and in Windows 8/1) is heaps better, so why re-create it instead of just leaving the code in there for us to use.

Now the registry key will bring the old startmenu /screen back, but I bet that in a few builds that key won't do anything since by then Microsoft will have removed the code from the code base, and effectively forcing this down our throats. Deja vu ! (as in they made the exact same error with the release of Windows 8, clearly showing they haven't learned their lesson, a recipe for disaster).
 

PepperdotNet

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Am I the only one who noticed that the Live Tiles portion of the new start menu, with its up and down scroll, now works more like my Windows Phone? Seems like a good thing to me. I hope at some point the tile resize uses the little pointy arrows as on phone instead of having to select from a menu.

I am also certain (as certain as the OP is that it's gone for good) that we will see the Win 8.1 style start screen again as an option. Or the new start menu configurable to scroll sideways. Or something that works better and makes sense. As pointed out ad infinitum, it's not a finished product, they are rebuilding that part a new way and it's not all there yet. I for one am very pleased with what they are doing, with all its flaws.
 

Michael Alan Goff

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Nope, they have removed both the resizeable start menu and the option to use the start screen instead and have created a new start menu. The regedit key discussed a few posts back confirms this. They might revert back, but I have little faith they actually will.

They aren't changing the start menu that was in previous builds, they created a new one. They supposedly are going to add features back to this new start menu. The problem with that is, that the start screen in previous builds (and in Windows 8/1) is heaps better, so why re-create it instead of just leaving the code in there for us to use.

Now the registry key will bring the old startmenu /screen back, but I bet that in a few builds that key won't do anything since by then Microsoft will have removed the code from the code base, and effectively forcing this down our throats. Deja vu ! (as in they made the exact same error with the release of Windows 8, clearly showing they haven't learned their lesson, a recipe for disaster).

I'm using a full screen start screen on my SP3 running the latest tech preview...
 

sjaak327

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I'm using a full screen start screen on my SP3 running the latest tech preview...

Assuming you just hit the maximize button to get the start menu in full screen (which is extensively described in the OP) this is nothing like the start experience in Windows 8 and hasn't been changed, it has been replaced. For now one can get the real start screen back using the registry key described a few posts back, but unless Microsoft has change of heart (which is the purpose of this thread) that one will be removed and replaced with something that even with extensive changed will not fly on a tablet. Just look at the left side to see what I am talking about.
 

Michael Alan Goff

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Assuming you just hit the maximize button to get the start menu in full screen (which is extensively described in the OP) this is nothing like the start experience in Windows 8 and hasn't been changed, it has been replaced. For now one can get the real start screen back using the registry key described a few posts back, but unless Microsoft has change of heart (which is the purpose of this thread) that one will be removed and replaced with something that even with extensive changed will not fly on a tablet. Just look at the left side to see what I am talking about.

Nope, using it in tablet mode. It works well on my tablet.
 

sjaak327

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Nope, using it in tablet mode. It works well on my tablet.

I am sure it does, I personally think it is a downright disaster.

Just for comparison the start screen and the new start screen both running on build 9926:

The first one is great, the second one a downright disaster.
 

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Michael Alan Goff

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I am sure it does, I personally think it is a downright disaster.

Just for comparison the start screen and the new start screen both running on build 9926:

The first one is great, the second one a downright disaster.

​ I really don't see how it's a disaster. Is it because you prefer to scroll sideways?
 

sjaak327

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​ I really don't see how it's a disaster. Is it because you prefer to scroll sideways?

Among other things yes, for other reasons I would like to refer to the OP, it's all in there.

To summarize, the vertical scrolling, no inline search and the useless stuff on the left that is way to tiny for my fingers (and I have small fingers).

The main probem here is that Microsoft is determined to throw everything that made 8.1 a great tablet OS away. It's not just the start screen, it's the task switching, the charms bar and the full screen experience, that all are gone from this build. Not to mention the sorry replacement for the all apps list.

They are clearly heading in the wrong direction and are making the exact same mistakes they did when they introduced Windows 8.

There is no reason to rip out perfectly functioning code, they don't need to reinvent the wheel, they have other avenues to please the desktop crowd, without alienating the tablet crowd.

Remember, they claim this OS can run on various different form factors, and that they want to get people to love Windows. How could a tablet user love Windows as it is now, the way they are going it won't approach Windows 8.1 not even close. Leave the stuff in and change the desktop, it's hardly rocket science.
 

Michael Alan Goff

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Among other things yes, for other reasons I would like to refer to the OP, it's all in there.

To summarize, the vertical scrolling, no inline search and the useless stuff on the left that is way to tiny for my fingers (and I have small fingers).

The main probem here is that Microsoft is determined to throw everything that made 8.1 a great tablet OS away. It's not just the start screen, it's the task switching, the charms bar and the full screen experience, that all are gone from this build. Not to mention the sorry replacement for the all apps list.

They are clearly heading in the wrong direction and are making the exact same mistakes they did when they introduced Windows 8.

There is no reason to rip out perfectly functioning code, they don't need to reinvent the wheel, they have other avenues to please the desktop crowd, without alienating the tablet crowd.

Remember, they claim this OS can run on various different form factors, and that they want to get people to love Windows. How could a tablet user love Windows as it is now, the way they are going it won't approach Windows 8.1 not even close. Leave the stuff in and change the desktop, it's hardly rocket science.

I have fat fingers and I can hit the apps in the menu. I agree about the charms bar, but that's about it. Task switching is just as good to me, and I'm sure full screen is coming back.

​edit: Just made the mail app full screen...
 

sjaak327

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I have fat fingers and I can hit the apps in the menu. I agree about the charms bar, but that's about it. Task switching is jus as good to me, and I'm sure full screen is coming back.

Let's hope full screen is coming back. I don't want to see the task bar when I am using it on a tablet.

My main point remains choice. You have no problem using the new start experience, I could use it as well, but much prefer the 8.1 start experience.

So why not offer me that choice, just as they should have offered the choice with Windows 8, so that Windows 7 users could choose between the start screen and the start menu. It's only code, it wouldn't have hurt anybody to leave that option in.

In fact, it did hurt somebody, and that somebody is making the same mistake again. Microsoft has Always allowed users to go back to previous start experiences, such as the classic shell in XP. But lately they are determined to remove that choice and rip out code that would have probably greatly increased adoption of Windows 8.

This time around they might get lucky, but the desktop crowd is also all over the insider forums complaining about this new xaml start menu, so it looks like they are right on course for an even greater disaster.

In any case, I am glad you have no problems with the touch interface in this iteration of the OS. I do, I think it is just barely useable, and when I consider four months of progress, I actually believe things are getting worse on the touch front. I see very little improvement and great regression.

That new browser also doesn't fill me with great expectations, address bar at the top, tabs at the top and apparently visible all the time, guess metro just lost it's focus on content.
 

TheCudder

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It's likely removed because it will be possible to have Live tiles on the desktop.

This would make zero sense, there would be no reason to have the in the start menu if that were the case. This build simply isn't focused on the touch design of Windows 10. People have already suggested it, but I doubt Microsoft is going to give into Live Tile's on the Desktop.
 

sjaak327

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This would make zero sense, there would be no reason to have the in the start menu if that were the case. This build simply isn't focused on the touch design of Windows 10. People have already suggested it, but I doubt Microsoft is going to give into Live Tile's on the Desktop.

It would in a way be a return to the gadgets that debuted in vista. I personally like the idea but agree that this probably won't happen.
 

Michael Alan Goff

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Let's hope full screen is coming back. I don't want to see the task bar when I am using it on a tablet.

My main point remains choice. You have no problem using the new start experience, I could use it as well, but much prefer the 8.1 start experience.

So why not offer me that choice, just as they should have offered the choice with Windows 8, so that Windows 7 users could choose between the start screen and the start menu. It's only code, it wouldn't have hurt anybody to leave that option in.

In fact, it did hurt somebody, and that somebody is making the same mistake again. Microsoft has Always allowed users to go back to previous start experiences, such as the classic shell in XP. But lately they are determined to remove that choice and rip out code that would have probably greatly increased adoption of Windows 8.

This time around they might get lucky, but the desktop crowd is also all over the insider forums complaining about this new xaml start menu, so it looks like they are right on course for an even greater disaster.

In any case, I am glad you have no problems with the touch interface in this iteration of the OS. I do, I think it is just barely useable, and when I consider four months of progress, I actually believe things are getting worse on the touch front. I see very little improvement and great regression.

That new browser also doesn't fill me with great expectations, address bar at the top, tabs at the top and apparently visible all the time, guess metro just lost it's focus on content.

​You could go back to the old start menu in Vista and 7?
 

mcheiron

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I agree with OP. I hope that this is just a little change that MS is trying out and seeing what the feedback is. Well, I did give them my feedback for the current tablet mode and how useful it is. I do know they mentioned that a lot of improvements are coming to the tablet mode, but I also think that they want feedback as early as possible. That's what we are there for.
 

anon(5348756)

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Well, I've said this so many times in the past 4 days, I'm getting tired of it... let me put it in all caps, see if the message gets through:

THIS IS A TECHNICAL PREVIEW. IT IS UNFINISHED SOFTWARE. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL NOR IS IT FULL FEATURED YET.

Did that do it this time? Did the message finally get through some people's thick skulls? Maybe if I add a bit more color and boldness:

THIS IS A TECHNICAL PREVIEW. IT IS UNFINISHED SOFTWARE. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL NOR IS IT FULL FEATURED YET.

Now?

Wait for the final version if you want good software for 7 or 8 upgraders.
 

sjaak327

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Well, I've said this so many times in the past 4 days, I'm getting tired of it... let me put it in all caps, see if the message gets through:

THIS IS A TECHNICAL PREVIEW. IT IS UNFINISHED SOFTWARE. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL NOR IS IT FULL FEATURED YET.

Did that do it this time? Did the message finally get through some people's thick skulls? Maybe if I add a bit more color and boldness:

THIS IS A TECHNICAL PREVIEW. IT IS UNFINISHED SOFTWARE. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL NOR IS IT FULL FEATURED YET.

Now?

Wait for the final version if you want good software for 7 or 8 upgraders.

There is no need to put anything in caps, we are not idiots and are perfectly aware of what you trying to say. What is the purpose of a tech preview if we cannot discuss and criticise the actual builds. Should I put this in caps so that you might understand ?

Really getting tired at the misplaced captain Obvious stuff. The purpose of a tech preview is to discuss the direction the software is going.

Waiting for the final product completely makes any tech preview useless and pointless.

Come back if you grasp the concept of a tech preview as envisioned by Microsoft.
 

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