01-30-2015 12:54 AM
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  1. sjaak327's Avatar
    I installed the tech preview of Windows 10 in a hyper-v VM last night. (and unfortunately that's probably as far as it will ever get).

    To my shock (not surprise, as it is Microsoft after all) they removed the option to disregard the start menu and return to the Windows 8.1 start screen.

    After all the endless discussions about the start menu / start screen issue in Windows 8, they still haven't understood that people want OPTIONS. But no instead of keeping the option to run the start screen (which was still in build 9901) they simply removed the option in build 9926.

    So now this Windows 8.1 user is going to be forced to using a start menu that is worse than the old start menu found prior to Windows 8 and far far worse than the start screen in Windows 8. How does Microsoft believe this start menu is going to convince anyone from switching from 8 or 7 to 10. Haven't they learned their lesson and still refuse to offer people options ?

    Can Microsoft explain to me how this startmenu makes any sense on a tablet device ? How this even makes sense on a desktop PC. And why was it necessary to remove the perfectly viable option to continue using Windows 8.1 start screen with all the refinements made to it over the course of two years ?

    Now before anyone comes in here and explains to me how I can make the start menu "full screen", I already know the option exist, but it doesn't even remotely resemble the start screen.

    1) Vertical scrolling instead of horizontal scrolling.
    2) no inline search, have to use the taskbar, which incidentially is always visible, even on tablet mode and on an actual tablet. Auto hiding the taskbar disables search by the way
    3) no apparent way to select multiple tiles, grouping feature made worse
    4) resizing tiles is broken
    5) left side of the startmenu contains useless stuff that cannot be removed
    6) pin to start is seriously broken
    7) all apps list is now replacing the useless left stuff when clicking on all apps, instead of the far superior all apps list in the 8.1 start screen

    Now I do appreciate this is a tech review, but specifically removing the ability to use the 8.1 start screen clearly indicates Microsoft is planning on retiring the start screen, hence making the exact same mistake as they did with Windows 8.

    Please for the love of god, re-introduce the ability to select to use the start screen, so you guys can botch the startmenu any way you like, I don't want it on my desktops, and I sure as hell don't want it on my tablet.
    01-24-2015 09:04 AM
  2. Blkacesvf41's Avatar
    Well, this is a preview and not the finalized product. I'm hoping like you that the option to boot up directly to the Start Screen is there in the final build. Another question I have is, regarding Continuum. If I have my keyboard attached with my hybrid tablet, can I still go full touch screen? Or is it going to force me to use the mouse also? Does anyone know?
    01-24-2015 10:07 AM
  3. neo158's Avatar
    Well, this is a preview and not the finalized product. I'm hoping like you that the option to boot up directly to the Start Screen is there in the final build. Another question I have is, regarding Continuum. If I have my keyboard attached with my hybrid tablet, can I still go full touch screen? Or is it going to force me to use the mouse also? Does anyone know?
    ​Settings has an option for tablet mode which you can switch on. So, yes, you can force tablet mode to be the default.
    Aaron Yawn and Jorge Holguin like this.
    01-24-2015 10:34 AM
  4. Blkacesvf41's Avatar
    ​Settings has an option for tablet mode which you can switch on. So, yes, you can force tablet mode to be the default.
    Cool! Thanks for answering.
    01-24-2015 10:44 AM
  5. neo158's Avatar
    Cool! Thanks for answering.
    ​There is an even quicker way to enable tablet mode, go to the notification centre and tap the "Tablet Mode" quick toggle.
    01-24-2015 10:58 AM
  6. Asskickulater's Avatar
    I installed the tech preview of Windows 10 in a hyper-v VM last night. (and unfortunately that's probably as far as it will ever get).

    To my shock (not surprise, as it is Microsoft after all) they removed the option to disregard the start menu and return to the Windows 8.1 start screen.

    After all the endless discussions about the start menu / start screen issue in Windows 8, they still haven't understood that people want OPTIONS. But no instead of keeping the option to run the start screen (which was still in build 9901) they simply removed the option in build 9926.

    So now this Windows 8.1 user is going to be forced to using a start menu that is worse than the old start menu found prior to Windows 8 and far far worse than the start screen in Windows 8. How does Microsoft believe this start menu is going to convince anyone from switching from 8 or 7 to 10. Haven't they learned their lesson and still refuse to offer people options ?

    Can Microsoft explain to me how this startmenu makes any sense on a tablet device ? How this even makes sense on a desktop PC. And why was it necessary to remove the perfectly viable option to continue using Windows 8.1 start screen with all the refinements made to it over the course of two years ?

    Now before anyone comes in here and explains to me how I can make the start menu "full screen", I already know the option exist, but it doesn't even remotely resemble the start screen.

    1) Vertical scrolling instead of horizontal scrolling.
    2) no inline search, have to use the taskbar, which incidentially is always visible, even on tablet mode and on an actual tablet. Auto hiding the taskbar disables search by the way
    3) no apparent way to select multiple tiles, grouping feature made worse
    4) resizing tiles is broken
    5) left side of the startmenu contains useless stuff that cannot be removed
    6) pin to start is seriously broken
    7) all apps list is now replacing the useless left stuff when clicking on all apps, instead of the far superior all apps list in the 8.1 start screen

    Now I do appreciate this is a tech review, but specifically removing the ability to use the 8.1 start screen clearly indicates Microsoft is planning on retiring the start screen, hence making the exact same mistake as they did with Windows 8.

    Please for the love of god, re-introduce the ability to select to use the start screen, so you guys can botch the startmenu any way you like, I don't want it on my desktops, and I sure as hell don't want it on my tablet.
    And the pointless uneducated whining begins. Welcome to whiners central
    neo158, Maonsie, AstroPop and 2 others like this.
    01-24-2015 11:34 AM
  7. neo158's Avatar
    I installed the tech preview of Windows 10 in a hyper-v VM last night. (and unfortunately that's probably as far as it will ever get).

    To my shock (not surprise, as it is Microsoft after all) they removed the option to disregard the start menu and return to the Windows 8.1 start screen.

    After all the endless discussions about the start menu / start screen issue in Windows 8, they still haven't understood that people want OPTIONS. But no instead of keeping the option to run the start screen (which was still in build 9901) they simply removed the option in build 9926.

    So now this Windows 8.1 user is going to be forced to using a start menu that is worse than the old start menu found prior to Windows 8 and far far worse than the start screen in Windows 8. How does Microsoft believe this start menu is going to convince anyone from switching from 8 or 7 to 10. Haven't they learned their lesson and still refuse to offer people options ?

    Can Microsoft explain to me how this startmenu makes any sense on a tablet device ? How this even makes sense on a desktop PC. And why was it necessary to remove the perfectly viable option to continue using Windows 8.1 start screen with all the refinements made to it over the course of two years ?

    Now before anyone comes in here and explains to me how I can make the start menu "full screen", I already know the option exist, but it doesn't even remotely resemble the start screen.

    1) Vertical scrolling instead of horizontal scrolling.
    2) no inline search, have to use the taskbar, which incidentially is always visible, even on tablet mode and on an actual tablet. Auto hiding the taskbar disables search by the way
    3) no apparent way to select multiple tiles, grouping feature made worse
    4) resizing tiles is broken
    5) left side of the startmenu contains useless stuff that cannot be removed
    6) pin to start is seriously broken
    7) all apps list is now replacing the useless left stuff when clicking on all apps, instead of the far superior all apps list in the 8.1 start screen

    Now I do appreciate this is a tech review, but specifically removing the ability to use the 8.1 start screen clearly indicates Microsoft is planning on retiring the start screen, hence making the exact same mistake as they did with Windows 8.

    Please for the love of god, re-introduce the ability to select to use the start screen, so you guys can botch the startmenu any way you like, I don't want it on my desktops, and I sure as hell don't want it on my tablet.
    I think someone should have watched the Windows 10 event on the 21st
    01-24-2015 11:46 AM
  8. runamuck83's Avatar
    I installed the tech preview of Windows 10 in a hyper-v VM last night. (and unfortunately that's probably as far as it will ever get).

    To my shock (not surprise, as it is Microsoft after all) they removed the option to disregard the start menu and return to the Windows 8.1 start screen.

    After all the endless discussions about the start menu / start screen issue in Windows 8, they still haven't understood that people want OPTIONS. But no instead of keeping the option to run the start screen (which was still in build 9901) they simply removed the option in build 9926.

    So now this Windows 8.1 user is going to be forced to using a start menu that is worse than the old start menu found prior to Windows 8 and far far worse than the start screen in Windows 8. How does Microsoft believe this start menu is going to convince anyone from switching from 8 or 7 to 10. Haven't they learned their lesson and still refuse to offer people options ?

    Can Microsoft explain to me how this startmenu makes any sense on a tablet device ? How this even makes sense on a desktop PC. And why was it necessary to remove the perfectly viable option to continue using Windows 8.1 start screen with all the refinements made to it over the course of two years ?

    Now before anyone comes in here and explains to me how I can make the start menu "full screen", I already know the option exist, but it doesn't even remotely resemble the start screen.

    1) Vertical scrolling instead of horizontal scrolling.
    2) no inline search, have to use the taskbar, which incidentially is always visible, even on tablet mode and on an actual tablet. Auto hiding the taskbar disables search by the way
    3) no apparent way to select multiple tiles, grouping feature made worse
    4) resizing tiles is broken
    5) left side of the startmenu contains useless stuff that cannot be removed
    6) pin to start is seriously broken
    7) all apps list is now replacing the useless left stuff when clicking on all apps, instead of the far superior all apps list in the 8.1 start screen

    Now I do appreciate this is a tech review, but specifically removing the ability to use the 8.1 start screen clearly indicates Microsoft is planning on retiring the start screen, hence making the exact same mistake as they did with Windows 8.

    Please for the love of god, re-introduce the ability to select to use the start screen, so you guys can botch the startmenu any way you like, I don't want it on my desktops, and I sure as hell don't want it on my tablet.
    Um....what?
    01-24-2015 12:06 PM
  9. sjaak327's Avatar
    Uneducated Whining ? I guess people have trouble reading. I would have thought my complaints are documented pretty extensively.

    But I get it, people could complain about the start menu being removed from Windows 8 for almost three years over and over, yet someone asking to bring the start screen back as an option is uneducated.

    Give me a bloody break. If you have nothing to share, why even post ?
    sahib lopez, yloops and JohnStrk like this.
    01-24-2015 05:59 PM
  10. sjaak327's Avatar
    Well, this is a preview and not the finalized product. I'm hoping like you that the option to boot up directly to the Start Screen is there in the final build. Another question I have is, regarding Continuum. If I have my keyboard attached with my hybrid tablet, can I still go full touch screen? Or is it going to force me to use the mouse also? Does anyone know?
    You cannot go full screen, you will still see the taskbar. To go really full screen, you would have to press the full screen arrow they now introduced. Of course, when switching to another application, you have to press this arrow again to go full screen. Absolute bollocks,
    01-24-2015 06:01 PM
  11. Joe920's Avatar
    To go really full screen, you would have to press the full screen arrow they now introduced. Of course, when switching to another application, you have to press this arrow again to go full screen. Absolute bollocks,
    This part bothers me as well. I hope that this will be fixed, and that it's not a design choice to make sure people don't lose their place. On TPCR I suggested this as a possible solution:

    - When an app goes full screen, keep it in the task switcher and on the task bar, but don't show it on the desktop.

    - A full screen app should close on swipe down from the top, even when a device is in 'desktop mode'. Swipe up should show app commands, rather than the taskbar as it does now.

    - In the task switcher, include a 'restore window' icon on a fullscreen app's thumbnail. Alternatively in the task switcher they could group by 'full screen apps' and 'windowed apps', and allow people to drag between the two.

    - On the taskbar, the fullscreen apps could get a small visual cue that they are full screen. Maybe a tiny up-triangle on the underline.

    If they implement these, I don't think I'd even have a need for tablet mode.
    01-24-2015 07:01 PM
  12. _Emi_'s Avatar
    You should understand this is not complete, still we are sadly 10 months away from relase, maybe 7 maybe 8 maybe 6 but still many months to come. I mean, we don't even have spartan, what do you expect from it?

    All your post contains stuff that might be changed in the feature, by Microsoft decisin or by user request. I would only advice you use the feedback App. yeah, it feels strange the new start screen/men. I like teh way 8.1 Works, but also I know it's not complete.

    have you used ctrl to select multiple tiles? that works on 8.1 when they removed the bar on the bottom. I don't have this new relase. and I don't plan to install it. but if you can't wait, and you are impatient to get the final UI and UX then I would advice you (yeah another one) to stay away from this Preview. use the feedback App if you want and give what you think about it. but it's obvious many things will change and this is the first time we, users, get the new hybrid start screen/men. many people will give feedback about it and Microsoft will listen to it. so maybe you should wait some months to try it again?
    again, look at the difference between builds, icons, menus, apps, control panel, everything is changing. I am sure some people should give feedback and wait and see. because what you see today, it's not what is going to be there tomorrow.
    01-24-2015 07:15 PM
  13. sjaak327's Avatar
    You should understand this is not complete, still we are sadly 10 months away from relase, maybe 7 maybe 8 maybe 6 but still many months to come. I mean, we don't even have spartan, what do you expect from it?

    All your post contains stuff that might be changed in the feature, by Microsoft decisin or by user request. I would only advice you use the feedback App. yeah, it feels strange the new start screen/men. I like teh way 8.1 Works, but also I know it's not complete.

    have you used ctrl to select multiple tiles? that works on 8.1 when they removed the bar on the bottom. I don't have this new relase. and I don't plan to install it. but if you can't wait, and you are impatient to get the final UI and UX then I would advice you (yeah another one) to stay away from this Preview. use the feedback App if you want and give what you think about it. but it's obvious many things will change and this is the first time we, users, get the new hybrid start screen/men. many people will give feedback about it and Microsoft will listen to it. so maybe you should wait some months to try it again?
    again, look at the difference between builds, icons, menus, apps, control panel, everything is changing. I am sure some people should give feedback and wait and see. because what you see today, it's not what is going to be there tomorrow.
    I do understand this isn't complete. I would hope we are 10 months away, but a september release would mean RTM in july or at the very latest august. That's just 7 months away.

    The fact that they specifically removed the start menu that was present in build 9901 and the option to change it to the start screen (as present in windows 8.1) quite clearly indicates to me their intention to change the start experience. Whilst posting this thread, somone figured out that a simple registry change will bring back the resizeable start menu AND the option to change it to the start screen, but this clearly points to their desire to indeed remove the code at a later stage. The start menu that is in build 9926 is written in xaml and to me, this is indeed going to be the way forward.

    I did of course use the feedback app, I did also post my concerns at the Windows insider forums, but I am almost 100% sure my concerns will fall on deaf ears.

    I fully appreciate this is just a preview, but after a full four months I see things getting worse instead of better. At this point, Windows 10 is far worse than Windows 8, let alone Windows 8.1.

    In any case, all I ask from Microsoft is to offer people a choice. Start menu, Start Screen, Full screen or Desktop mode. After all, they proclaim Windows 10 being the OS that runs on all of these formfactors, then they cannot possibly have one start menu experience that would work on all of these devices. Removing choice is never a good thing.

    By the way, of course I tried CTRL to select multiple tiles, it doesn't work, but that would be the least of my concerns anyway.
    01-24-2015 07:36 PM
  14. klose91's Avatar
    I was also kinda shocked, what they have done there. I know, that it's in development and not even near an finished product, when you enter the insider program, you should be aware of that. But the fear, that it'll end up in a same way it is now, is there. So, let's hope it gets better and will be usable again. ^^
    01-24-2015 07:36 PM
  15. SammyD97's Avatar
    They can do whatever they want with the start menu. Make it sing hallelujah if they wish but I want my old start screen back (even on my laptop). With you on this one. I really hope they bring back the option
    01-24-2015 08:31 PM
  16. TheCudder's Avatar
    It would be cool if there was an insider app where we all could provide useful feedback and maybe make suggestions with innovative and intuitive ways to satisfy both desktop and tablet users when making the "continuum" transition. /sarcasm
    PepperdotNet likes this.
    01-24-2015 09:36 PM
  17. SammyD97's Avatar
    It would be cool if there was an insider app where we all could provide useful feedback and maybe make suggestions with innovative and intuitive ways to satisfy both desktop and tablet users when making the "continuum" transition. /sarcasm
    And you're assuming that it wasn't used? If someone wants to rant, let them. This one is a lot better than those "we need a flagship Lumia" rants.
    01-24-2015 11:32 PM
  18. markyjns's Avatar
    The point is keep feeding the problems back....the new start screen is currently a mess with many options and refinements now missing and that list on the left hand side is stupid beyond belief when on the start screen......but this is a tech preview they want our feedback so feedback and often
    01-25-2015 03:16 AM
  19. sjaak327's Avatar
    They can do whatever they want with the start menu. Make it sing hallelujah if they wish but I want my old start screen back (even on my laptop). With you on this one. I really hope they bring back the option
    Exactly my point. However the writing is on the wall. They basically have created a new start experience based upon xaml that runs on WinRT. They resetted their first approach which was offering users a choice between the resizeable startmenu or the start screen experience.

    I am assuming this is done due to the tablet mode switch, they probably want the start menu to be changed on the fly based upon this toggle. They probably figured that switching between the resizeable startmenu and the start screen couldn't be done without restarting explorer.exe, so they re-deisgned it from scratch, which means it will get better, but some of those decisions are probably hard set (such as vertical scrolling).

    They once again are trying to do a one size fits all scenario.

    In any case, in this build (9926) there is a way to get back the resizeable startmenu and by exention to get back the choice between the startmenu and the startscreen (the full 8.1 startscreen, including desktop background and boot to start menu):

    Regedit, HCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Advanced
    create 32bits dword called EnableXamlStartMenu and leave value to 0
    log off or restart explorer.exe

    And voila you have the start menu back, and once you get to the settings you could change it to be the start screen.

    Now by the time RTM ships, this regedit setting will do nothing at all of course.
    01-25-2015 04:48 AM
  20. klose91's Avatar
    Thanks for the tip to bring it back, even if it's a provisional solution, it's so much better this way.
    01-25-2015 05:25 AM
  21. AstroPop's Avatar
    Uneducated Whining ? I guess people have trouble reading. I would have thought my complaints are documented pretty extensively.

    But I get it, people could complain about the start menu being removed from Windows 8 for almost three years over and over, yet someone asking to bring the start screen back as an option is uneducated.

    Give me a bloody break. If you have nothing to share, why even post ?
    You should follow your own advice.
    neo158 and white_Shadoww like this.
    01-25-2015 05:48 AM
  22. mjrtoo's Avatar
    And the pointless uneducated whining begins. Welcome to whiners central
    So it's ok to whine how crappy you thought 8.1 was, but not how they are ruining their entire vision with 10? Give me a break.
    01-25-2015 05:53 AM
  23. AstroPop's Avatar
    So it's ok to whine how crappy you thought 8.1 was, but not how they are ruining their entire vision with 10? Give me a break.
    The difference is 8.1 was a finished product, this is a WORK IN PROGRESS and Microsoft clearly said THE TOUCH STUFF IS NOT FINISHED YET so stop whining that it's unfinished in a pre-release technical preview FFS. You have no business running the TP if you can't even understand that, you're just bogging things down with your uneducated whining and wasting everybody's time.

    This is what the preview is, they take away features and build them, put them back in, disable features temporarily. Install Xp and stop whining.
    neo158 likes this.
    01-25-2015 06:01 AM
  24. sjaak327's Avatar
    You should follow your own advice.
    But I did, was your short attention span interfering with your ability to read ? Pretty clear I am sharing here.
    01-25-2015 06:06 AM
  25. sjaak327's Avatar
    The difference is 8.1 was a finished product, this is a WORK IN PROGRESS and Microsoft clearly said THE TOUCH STUFF IS NOT FINISHED YET so stop whining that it's unfinished in a pre-release technical preview FFS. You have no business running the TP if you can't even understand that, you're just bogging things down with your uneducated whining and wasting everybody's time.

    This is what the preview is, they take away features and build them, put them back in, disable features temporarily. Install Xp and stop whining.
    Of course I am fully aware this is work in progress. If you would have read my posts, you would have noticed how I describe the direction they are going in from build to build, this direction is my main concern as I cannot possibly see how this direction would lead to a usable product, certainly when touch is concerned.

    Finally, if the whining bothers you so much, you always have the option to ignore this thread and others like it. Have the decency to let others discuss this topic on this forum, after all that is the exact purpose of a forum.

    Common sense, isn't it great ?
    01-25-2015 06:08 AM
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