Win 10 in Tablet mode is horrible

[Giffdev]

Hey All, happy to see such discussion around tablet mode and the taskbar. While I cannot discuss specifics of feature implementation or our roadmap (come on, you know I can't ) , I did want to say that your feedback is bubbling up to us, and to please continue to express it using the Windows Feedback app on the tech preview. That said, the taskbar isn't finalized, and we have a number of improvements already slated (again, I'm not going into specifics here). Just know that we're still months from release, improvements and changes are still coming (especially around user interface, that is always being refined), and we definitely are listening to your feedback.

 

[Luigi Lop]

i completely agree that we need a change- or to better say, they are doing the same mistake in the opposite direction. First the tabletize the desktop, now they desktopize the tablets. The 2 modes need strict distinctiveness.

 

[swanlee]

Hey All, happy to see such discussion around tablet mode and the taskbar. While I cannot discuss specifics of feature implementation or our roadmap (come on, you know I can't ) , I did want to say that your feedback is bubbling up to us, and to please continue to express it using the Windows Feedback app on the tech preview. That said, the taskbar isn't finalized, and we have a number of improvements already slated (again, I'm not going into specifics here). Just know that we're still months from release, improvements and changes are still coming (especially around user interface, that is always being refined), and we definitely are listening to your feedback.

Thanks, I've definitely been very active in using the built in feedback apps, Win 10 insider forums, twitter, and forums like these expressing my opinions on Win 10.

Please make it clear though to anyone that will listen that an always visible taskbar on a tablet is completely unacceptable from a UI and touch perspective and really needs to change. This is currently my biggest problem with Win 10.

The features that necessitates an always visible Taskbar could easily be move to the notification center which can be opened on command when needed.

So really in short you can improve the taskbar all you want but the fact is the taskbar shouldn't even be their in tablet mode in the first place unless someone goes to it on purpose.

 

[bschiav]

Hey All, happy to see such discussion around tablet mode and the taskbar. While I cannot discuss specifics of feature implementation or our roadmap (come on, you know I can't ) , I did want to say that your feedback is bubbling up to us, and to please continue to express it using the Windows Feedback app on the tech preview. That said, the taskbar isn't finalized, and we have a number of improvements already slated (again, I'm not going into specifics here). Just know that we're still months from release, improvements and changes are still coming (especially around user interface, that is always being refined), and we definitely are listening to your feedback.

Thanks for chiming in.

I was just reading the thread. I'm coming from using windows 7 exclusively at home and work for years to a Surface Pro 3 purchased this past December. Windows 8 was not difficult to pickup, and I find that I only use the desktop for very specific use cases (Lightroom and video work). I've just installed Windows 10 in a dual boot on the device...and while I'm not getting as emotional as some others, I agree with the overall sentiment. It just doesn't "feel" right on a device like the surface. Even with the keyboard attached, I'm still very likely to use the screen for navigation...this is likely the case for most laptops and 2-in-1's with touch screens. Current direction is certainly tempering my optimism for Win 10 release.

I know changes/improvements are coming. But if you ask me today, ignoring all bugs, what OS do you want to use daily...I would instantly choose 8.1.

Still excited to see how things improve from here, and hopefully that opinion will change.

 

[bschiav]

The feature that necessitate an always visible Taskbar could easily be move to the notification center whihc is opened on caommand when needed.

I know this idea won't happen, because the charms are already gone...but they should have kept the charms and had notification also slide out "behind" the charms. Imagine the current notification windows bumped further left so that there's room for the old charms. On desktop, access necessary charm functions from the taskbar (devices, share, etc.), to be functionally consistent (like having the notification button available in desktop).

Basically, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The swipe actions should facilitate the functions of the taskbar when not in a "desktop" mode.

 

[swanlee]

I know this idea won't happen, because the charms are already gone...but they should have kept the charms and had notification also slide out "behind" the charms. Imagine the current notification windows bumped further left so that there's room for the old charms. On desktop, access necessary charm functions from the taskbar (devices, share, etc.), to be functionally consistent (like having the notification button available in desktop).

Basically, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The swipe actions should facilitate the functions of the taskbar when not in a "desktop" mode.

Yep it is crazy to have Desktop and Tablet mode but not properly utilize the GUI for each fucntion.

Having the two modes is a great idea and may have saved Win 8 from a lot of grief when it came out if it also had a Desktop and Tablet mode that worked properly for each environment.

Imagine if Win 8 detected no touch screen and booted directly to desktop with a modern Start Menu that was just an improvement over Win 7. And a Tablet mode that pretty much did what Win 8 did by default. That would have neutralized alot of the complaining from the desktop crowd.

But not actually making a Tablet mode useful compared two Win 8.1 is a complete failure.

 

[sjaak327]

Hey All, happy to see such discussion around tablet mode and the taskbar. While I cannot discuss specifics of feature implementation or our roadmap (come on, you know I can't ) , I did want to say that your feedback is bubbling up to us, and to please continue to express it using the Windows Feedback app on the tech preview. That said, the taskbar isn't finalized, and we have a number of improvements already slated (again, I'm not going into specifics here). Just know that we're still months from release, improvements and changes are still coming (especially around user interface, that is always being refined), and we definitely are listening to your feedback.

Thanks. I do indeed hope you guys aren't just listening to feedback but actually acting upon it. I am happy that the final release is still months away and I hope it will be enough to fix tablet mode.

I would like to try and convince you guys to consider two separate UI approaches for Touch and Desktop, and no that doesn't mean being able to maximize the start screen, it means a separate UI.

The way you seem to be going with the start menu is wrong and needs to be adjusted before it is to late.

 

[Luigi Lop]

Hey All, happy to see such discussion around tablet mode and the taskbar. While I cannot discuss specifics of feature implementation or our roadmap (come on, you know I can't ) , I did want to say that your feedback is bubbling up to us, and to please continue to express it using the Windows Feedback app on the tech preview. That said, the taskbar isn't finalized, and we have a number of improvements already slated (again, I'm not going into specifics here). Just know that we're still months from release, improvements and changes are still coming (especially around user interface, that is always being refined), and we definitely are listening to your feedback.

as i said in the Insider forum(angelus_mortis), i wont install this on my upcoming windows tablet. I find the current tablet ui experience on windows 8.1 perfectly fine, while the one on windows 10 is unusable.

 

[Luigi Lop]

I post here the thoughs i expressed on the windows insider forums.

I completely agree with the OP and the others in this thread in saying that this will surely be a downgrade to tablet users.
I actually installed the TP on my notebook(i3 3th gen 2,4 ghz,8gb of ram, ssd) and i find it slower in all regards to w 8.1. The laptop feels sluggish and slow to respond, boot time is outrageous. The only nice thing is increased battery life, but if to connect to a wifi i have to wait 15 seconds before the panel opens up, it's not worth it.
Also i'm about to buy a cheap w 8.1 tablet, and after playing around with this build i completely agree. I miss the charm bar on my laptop( i admit i only used it to turn off/sleep), especially in regards to the controls, the quick glance at battery/clock/wifi signal.
The toggles do not work as intended. They are not a single- button solution to quickly be closed and be done with it, and we should like on wp8.1, be able to choose which toggles should be provided.
Notifications about the system once clicked upon do absolutely nothing.
The new small menus intended as charm replacement are completely ugly, uncomfortable to use, and very slow. As a suggestion for improvements, you could have an in-app charm bar, smaller, with less buttons, popping up from the side in a wp8.1 fashion, the same way some options are showed only in the lower bar. And keep the swipe from left to right.
The new windows update is completely useless. You can't select which updates you wanna do and which you don't. I had an update loop where i installed manually the display adapter drivers, and where more up-to-date than those from w update. I was forced to uninstall them and let wupdate install his to solve the problem.
Also, you can't click on updates to go directly to the knowledge base to learn what does these updates do, and you can't select the number either, so you're forced to do an awkward copy-by typing.
You implemented a new control panel removing/transferring(ergo downgrading) functionality from the old one to the new one.
So i'm not going to upgrade my new shining tablet to windows 10 if you don't give the option to have a tablet- only experience. Specially the taskbar should be gone from it.
You nailed many, many things with the ui in windows 8. Then you slightly downgraded them going towards 8.1, but now the direction you-re going with windows 10 is very bad- you are making the same mistake you did with 8, taking away proved functionality(nobody ever said that w 8.1 on a tablet had an UI that did not make sense or wasn't perfect!) and forcing the "new way" as an holy grail.
Please heed our pleas. Please do not make the same mistake again.
You tried to make a tablet interface and shove it down the throat of the desktop users. Now you're doing the opposite. Please stop.

And since someone from microsoft is reading this post, i add a general advise for all the platform that you really need to work on: loading times for the apps.

 

[swanlee]

I'm finding myself always trying to swipe through apps in win 10 only to get that stupid screen where my open apps are minimized and I need to pick between them.

Again this is wasted movement. It is much easier and more natural to just swipe through my open apps then swipe and try and pick from a minimized set of icons of open apps.

Literally with win 8.1 on a tablet if you think of how swipe should naturally work they just do. That is the beauty of it even if I do not know for sure if a swipe command is supported if it feels like a natural thing 9 times out of 10 it will work.

In Win 10 Tablet mode nothing feels natural everything is 2 steps more than it should be. It is a frustrating experience to say the least.

When using Tablet mode it really should just switch all swipe actions to be like win 8.1

Just make a really good tutorial video instead of trying to add wasted visual queues to everything.

Tablet GUI's should just naturally work and visually the GUI should get out of the way. Stop trying to shoe horn PITA visual queues that stop the flow of navigation on a tablet.

In win 8.1 the GUI only appeared when you purposely wanted it to.

 

[Paolo Cardelli]

I'm finding myself always trying to swipe through apps in win 10 only to get that stupid screen where my open apps are minimized and I need to pick between them.

Again this is wasted movement. It is much easier and more natural to just swipe through my open apps then swipe and try and pick from a minimized set of icons of open apps.

Literally with win 8.1 on a tablet if you think of how swipe should naturally work they just do. That is the beauty of it even if I do not know for sure if a swipe command is supported if it feels like a natural thing 9 times out of 10 it will work.

In Win 10 Tablet mode nothing feels natural everything is 2 steps more than it should be. It is a frustrating experience to say the least.

When using Tablet mode it really should just switch all swipe actions to be like win 8.1

Just make a really good tutorial video instead of trying to add wasted visual queues to everything.

Tablet GUI's should just naturally work and visually the GUI should get out of the way. Stop trying to shoe horn PITA visual queues that stop the flow of navigation on a tablet.

In win 8.1 the GUI only appeared when you purposely wanted it to.

Ok.
Now post all this HERE please, otherwise all those complaints will be useless.

Thanks

 

[swanlee]

Ok.
Now post all this HERE please, otherwise all those complaints will be useless.

Thanks

done

 

[Stefan Holder]

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but can someone point me to the uservoice to vote for Microsoft to allow Windows RT devices update to the Desktop less small tablet Windows 10 sku, instead of abandoning surface rt/2 users? Thanks!!
Sent from my Lumia 1320 all the way from Jupiter.

 

[cool8man]

We may need to start organizing a Twitter and Reddit campaign to get the word out to other Windows 8 tablet users about what is coming. Windows 10 is taking us back to the Tablet PC era of forcing the desktop UI onto a touch screen. They don't seem to care at all about Windows Phone or Windows tablet users anymore. This Windows 10 interface is a massive downgrade from the current touch interface we have today. Microsoft wants to just sweep us under the rug like Surface 1 & 2 owners; forget we ever even existed. Next step will be for them to turn Surface Pro into an ultrabook. Most of the tech media is hostile to Windows touch screen devices so they are championing Microsoft's retreat from modern computing.

 

[mjrtoo]

Here's my tweet about it.
https://twitter.com/mjrtoo/status/561416482853097473

 

[Luigi Lop]

we need to keep voicing these doubts! we cant let this thread die nor we can let go spamming this on other sites!|

 

[Wevenhuis]

The only thing I'm worried about is the transcript of on an online dev response on someone's questions of the present taskbar at the bottom and that currently there was apparantly a high count of keeping the taskbar in tablet mode. As long as I have worked with my surface pro I have not seen any use of needing a taskbar in tablet mode. Yes I do need it on the desktop sometimes. The taskbar in windows 10 present as standard in tablet mode is beyond my understanding. To be honest for business the adding of the taskbar in tablet mode sounds like a niche function, just like we windows central users and fans have our wishes for certain changes. I've used window 8.x for over 2 years on my surface pro and it never came to mind that I needed the taskbar in tablet mode. What would be the added benefit of that. To me it seems far fetched. The charmsbar and pinned tiles already did a lot of what the taskbar can do. But now that I write this I think I get what microsoft did. They're perhaps phasing out the functionality of the charmsbar and pinnable tiles, so that the end user will pin apps, inks, and tiles to the taskbar.

For me the familiar experience of windows for a tablet is still the windows start menu with live tiles and the charms bar, no matter what business says.

​I got some time to install windows 10 on surface pro first 10 and have a go at the OS. Tablet mode in winodws 10, compared to my experience with windows 8.1, is still in its infancy in this technical preview. There is a lot of work to be done. Tablet mode is far from stable and in its current form feels like a virtual machine in a next generation windows 7 operating system. The biggest changes are the loss of the start screen, app bars and charmsbar compared to windows 8.1 with regard to the modern UI/metro and tablet experience. It is replaced by a hidden windows title bar with a hamburger settings menu at the top left. Now the interesting, but yet confusing part is that apps still have app bar functionality. The swiping gestures have been mechanised into a button, known as the app command hidden within the hamburger menu. Contextual charms bar app menus are also present, but are also mechanised as the settings button in the hamburger settings button. I'm still trying to understand how I'm going to incorporate this into my new workflow in a couple of months time. I think it seems okay when using a mouse and keyboard, I guess. But as a tablet user, thinking mobile and touch and gesture based interaction with the device in your hand with no mouse and keyboard, it is a surprising choice to make.

 

[jhoff80]

​Now the interesting, but yet confusing part is that apps still have app bar functionality. The swiping gestures have been mechanised into a button, known as the app command hidden within the hamburger menu. Contextual charms bar app menus are also present, but are also mechanised as the settings button in the hamburger settings button.

​This is only for backwards compatibility. If you notice, any Windows 10 - specific app (Photos, Store (Beta)) will not have that menu. It's clear that what Microsoft wants is for app developers to update their apps to remove menus from there. Unfortunately, if previous history is any guide, they will be completely and totally unsuccessful with this.

 

[bschiav]

I'm finding myself always trying to swipe through apps in win 10 only to get that stupid screen where my open apps are minimized and I need to pick between them.

Again this is wasted movement. It is much easier and more natural to just swipe through my open apps then swipe and try and pick from a minimized set of icons of open apps.

Literally with win 8.1 on a tablet if you think of how swipe should naturally work they just do. That is the beauty of it even if I do not know for sure if a swipe command is supported if it feels like a natural thing 9 times out of 10 it will work.

In Win 10 Tablet mode nothing feels natural everything is 2 steps more than it should be. It is a frustrating experience to say the least.

When using Tablet mode it really should just switch all swipe actions to be like win 8.1

Just make a really good tutorial video instead of trying to add wasted visual queues to everything.

Tablet GUI's should just naturally work and visually the GUI should get out of the way. Stop trying to shoe horn PITA visual queues that stop the flow of navigation on a tablet.

In win 8.1 the GUI only appeared when you purposely wanted it to.

It's amazing how you don't appreciate what you've got until it's gone isn't it? This is such a predicament for MS...because of marketing issues and initial fumbles with Win8, I think we now have the massive mind shift back the other direction. You can't really fault them for it now...it's really for sins of the past (sorta). Because if Win8.1 came along quicker and had a start menu for desktop users...I don't even think we'd be questioning that all was needed, were refinements for a Win 9. And not an overhaul for Win10.

After some more time with Win10...I do have to say that, the desktop mode is GREAT...I would love to upgrade from Win 7 to Win 10 for my work PC. But I still stand by my earlier comments, because for me...I'm 90% in a tablet function when at home...conundrum on how to make this all work seamlessly.

(Nice to be Apple here huh? Stand by and twiddle your thumbs until MS figures this all out. It will be interesting to see how they converge OS's at some point in the future and start handling touch. From Microsoft lessons learned, I'm sure)

 

[CSJr1]

Windows 8.1 had it right. Horizontal scrolling tiles in landscape mode, vertical in portrait. If you want a task bar it would be better to "short pull" from bottom and "long pull" could bring list apps with task bar.