02-17-2015 10:20 PM
49 12
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  1. JamesDax's Avatar
    I believe for tablet expience it is better to currently give plenty of feedback and uservoice on paying attention to the tablet eperience. But other than that just wait and take a sit back. Beacuase for RTM. release its going to be all desktop at first and tablet last. I have a feeling that tablet will, just like what happened with the desktop updates in winodws 8, it will not be untill december 2016 or even later before we see a significant tablet improvement like a 10.1 update. There are generally more desktop and laptop winodws users. User feedback was huge in windows 8 that more support was needed for a better desktop experience. This userbase will go first. Surface and tablet owners are niche.

    My advice stick with windows 8 on your surface till the desktop users are satisfied, then start ramping up feedback on the tablet side. Windows 10 is far from ready for the upgrade for a tablet/surface pro right now, even at RTM.
    ​What a load of crap. When Windows 10 goes RTM it will be feature complete for desktops, tablets and phones.
    02-12-2015 08:40 AM
  2. TechFreak1's Avatar
    that's a lot of blaming...LOL^^^^^^^
    Lol, I'm just pointing out there is a lot of factors contributing to the decision MS has made with Windows 10. What people must realise is Windows 10 is for the enterprise and not us general consumers. A lot of enterprise customers are deploying Windows 7 even when the main stream support ended on Jan 13 2015. I doubt they will release another service pack as it will mean increasing the extended support of the current deadline from 2020. They sure as not going to offer Windows 10 for free for enterprise customers... makes zero business sense to do so.

    I imagine once Windows 10 is in more tablets and continuum gets more refined we may see the return of more touch centric switching and something similar to the charms bar.
    Alain_A and Aravind-S like this.
    02-12-2015 08:54 AM
  3. Coreldan's Avatar
    There are three parties to be blamed here

    1) Enterprise customers
    2) Microsoft
    3) OEMs

    Blame the enterprise customers, it was far to alien for them and so Windows 10 was designed to bring them back into the fold. So in the process the charms and left to switch was deemed unintuitive.

    Blame MS for not making adequate tutorials in the first place and for being to narrow minded in their approach when they built Windows 8. When they started developing it, the world was gearing up for touch and it was envisioned everyone would be using touch however there was no Plan B put in place to placate mouse + keyboard users and the enterprise users - W8.1 came too late. After your done blaming MS, blame the OEM's for shipping laptops without touch which just added fuel to the fire.
    I upgraded to Windows 8 as soon as I could and it had tutorials available just fine at the time. I think it's more the mentality that people skip all the instructions and are then left wondering why things dont work the same as they used to.
    02-12-2015 11:18 AM
  4. Skamath's Avatar
    Swipe down to close was shown at the 21/1 event. Maybe it'll be included in an upcoming build, if it's not there currently.
    Swipe to close is currently available I the present builds.
    The swipe to close exists in the tablet mode. Rory I think he meant it for the desktop mode that it doesnt work/ it is disabled, where as it used to work in 8.1
    02-12-2015 12:59 PM
  5. Skamath's Avatar
    ​What a load of crap. When Windows 10 goes RTM it will be feature complete for desktops, tablets and phones.
    I think what he meant by Desktop first was that the MS resources are pooled towards making Desktop a better experience as vast majority of them are desktop users then followed by tablets and finally the phones and not necessarily that the RTM is not available for the tablets and phones.

    Cheers
    Wevenhuis likes this.
    02-12-2015 01:04 PM
  6. sashlon's Avatar
    I think its pretty good on a tablet actually.

    ​I really disliked the earlier builds on my Surface Pro 3, but 9926 fixed pretty much all my issues.

    02-12-2015 05:16 PM
  7. Aravind-S's Avatar
    I'm using Dell venue 8 pro running W8.1.1 and the ribbon menus & taskbar icons are horrible to access. They are so small and not touch optimized. Any improvements in W10TP so far?
    02-13-2015 01:05 AM
  8. Wevenhuis's Avatar
    I'm using Dell venue 8 pro running W8.1.1 and the ribbon menus & taskbar icons are horrible to access. They are so small and not touch optimized. Any improvements in W10TP so far?
    Yes, the new office apps for windows 10 have been optimized for touch. Coming from windows 8.1 desktop apps, you will notice a more clean design overall, less cluttered ribon. The basis is still a ribbon design, but they are devided in tabs. Each tabs has fixed number of items on a single line of about 80 pixels wide. It's different to the office desktop because the icons are generally larger. It does mean that compromises are made as to which features from the desktop programs are ported to the apps. But in general its enough to get the basics done and do some basic editing. In onenote the radial menu has been replaced by a menu bar.

    I think this is a big step forward for making touch and pen friendlier apps for tablet mode in the surface pro. I do agree though that the buttons are still a tad too small. I have been trying these apps out in tablet mode on my surface pro, but yes they still feel a bit small. am hoping microsoft will fix this. I provided feedback through the insiders hub. But I think the final product will probably be a what we see now. I think it has to do with making compromises between ergonomics and design. So I think things won't change other that reporting bug fixes till after release. Only then will microsoft have time and room to improve on design aesthetics. But that's 2 years down the line. I'm not saying this is fact, but a assumption based on a hunch in my experience with microsoft so far.
    02-13-2015 07:57 AM
  9. TechFreak1's Avatar
    I upgraded to Windows 8 as soon as I could and it had tutorials available just fine at the time. I think it's more the mentality that people skip all the instructions and are then left wondering why things dont work the same as they used to.
    Yes, the tutorials came after.

    Have tried all windows 8 previews in VM and none had tutorials prior to the public release. The first preview gave me a migraine as nothing made sense as the whole UX was touch centric thus meaning one had to bury the mouse into each corner (basically one had to imagine the bezel was part of the screen, once you reached the top corner it would activate the relevant zone). So imagine how the IT department for an enterprise org would have felt after trialing the previews?

    Furthermore they hid the shut down menu inside settings, how moronic can you get?

    After these scathing previews without any proper guidance, I don't blame the enterprise for going down the Windows 7 route. Also you need to factor in the training cost for the current staff [bearing in mind most would be accustomed to XP and the remaining Windows 7] and compatibility with their legacy applications.
    02-14-2015 09:56 AM
  10. Coreldan's Avatar
    Yes, the tutorials came after.

    Have tried all windows 8 previews in VM and none had tutorials prior to the public release. The first preview gave me a migraine as nothing made sense as the whole UX was touch centric thus meaning one had to bury the mouse into each corner (basically one had to imagine the bezel was part of the screen, once you reached the top corner it would activate the relevant zone). So imagine how the IT department for an enterprise org would have felt after trialing the previews?

    Furthermore they hid the shut down menu inside settings, how moronic can you get?

    After these scathing previews without any proper guidance, I don't blame the enterprise for going down the Windows 7 route. Also you need to factor in the training cost for the current staff [bearing in mind most would be accustomed to XP and the remaining Windows 7] and compatibility with their legacy applications.
    Enterprise is a beast of it's own, I'm not even talking about it. Just look at teh whole support ending for Win XP. I don't expect Enterprise to touch Windows 8 or even 10 in the next decade. It's just easier and safer and cheaper to just hang on to the oldest thing available, which is now Win 7.

    Consumer then again.. Only a small, tiny minority will preview something like Windows 8 beforehand. The tutorials were in the final product, that's what most consumers used/tried.
    02-15-2015 05:44 AM
  11. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    I wouldn't say it's bad, just pointless. It shows that it is nowhere near done.
    02-16-2015 05:27 AM
  12. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Enterprise is a beast of it's own, I'm not even talking about it. Just look at teh whole support ending for Win XP. I don't expect Enterprise to touch Windows 8 or even 10 in the next decade. It's just easier and safer and cheaper to just hang on to the oldest thing available, which is now Win 7.

    Consumer then again.. Only a small, tiny minority will preview something like Windows 8 beforehand. The tutorials were in the final product, that's what most consumers used/tried.
    Also there is another bone of contention, which I didn't mention as this thread was about the tablet mode. Most people who used windows 8 on their desktop machines with large monitors (non-touch) some even a TV as a monitor. Therefore when they would open up an store app it would launch full screen, so imagine having to drag your mouse all the way up to the top, click+hold then drag down or go all the way to the left. If your not used to using shortcut keys, this will get old pretty fast.

    Furthermore another issue was snapping, once you had snapped an app there was a void on section of the screen with no visible cues that the user had to click on that segment in order to go back to the start screen / app list. So for the average person who is not IT literate would be left baffled, I'm speaking from experience - I used to teach elderly folks and kids how to use Windows 8 as their new laptop / desktop pc had windows 8 on it and they had no idea how to interact with it.

    There are other issues which I won't list as this post would become a tldr essay .

    But yeah, I would love to see MS refine and implement the touch centric UX of windows 8 for tablets on Windows 10.
    However what I don't want to see is another idiotic move like putting the shut down menu in settings lol. Never the less Windows 10 has not even reached RTM so things will change between the current public build and the end product.
    02-17-2015 06:32 AM
  13. mister2d's Avatar
    I rolled back to 8.1 on my SP3 after I realized that I couldn't:

    1) Swipe from the left to do fast app switching
    2) Swipe from the right to quickly adjust brightness setting, and others
    3) Swipe feature in Reader to quickly reveal the Save button after annotating PDFs.

    I've sent many feedback notes and then quickly rolled back. It's hideous for touch coming from 8.1
    02-17-2015 11:25 AM
  14. sashlon's Avatar
    I rolled back to 8.1 on my SP3 after I realized that I couldn't:

    1) Swipe from the left to do fast app switching
    2) Swipe from the right to quickly adjust brightness setting, and others
    3) Swipe feature in Reader to quickly reveal the Save button after annotating PDFs.

    I've sent many feedback notes and then quickly rolled back. It's hideous for touch coming from 8.1
    1) That's funny because I swipe from the left and get multitasking.
    2) Yes that is a fail. But its a TECH PREVIEW. I'm sure they'll address it.
    3) The App Commands is fairly simple to access.
    02-17-2015 04:46 PM
  15. mister2d's Avatar
    1) That's funny because I swipe from the left and get multitasking.
    2) Yes that is a fail. But its a TECH PREVIEW. I'm sure they'll address it.
    3) The App Commands is fairly simple to access.
    1) I didn't say multitasking.
    2) I understand as much. Like I said. I left ample feedback. Then rolled back.
    3) Not applicable.
    02-17-2015 04:52 PM
  16. sashlon's Avatar
    I don't see any speed deficit in the multitasking. I think 10 is much better.

    The App Commands are all there.
    02-17-2015 05:03 PM
  17. m3tv's Avatar
    It's great! I love it, use it more often than desktop mode haha
    (Surface Pro 2)
    02-17-2015 05:20 PM
  18. mister2d's Avatar
    I don't see any speed deficit in the multitasking. I think 10 is much better.

    The App Commands are all there.
    Again, I never mentioned multitasking. I said Fast App Switching. Perhaps you haven't used that feature.

    Whatever App Commands are, it's more cumbersome. What you have in 8.1 is a simple gestured swipe, then slide toggle for brightness or volume (all with one thumb). In this build, it's extra cumbersome to get to. All of this was in my feedback to Microsoft of course. I just hope they listen.
    02-17-2015 05:33 PM
  19. sashlon's Avatar
    I'm following now... duh

    Swiping in apps from the left.

    Yes I miss that. But I think a lot of people hated it unfortunately.
    02-17-2015 05:43 PM
  20. mister2d's Avatar
    Why would anyone hate that? That sounds idiotic.
    02-17-2015 07:20 PM
  21. sashlon's Avatar
    It IS idiotic.

    But there was an awful lot of idiocy, panic and small-mindedness displayed by a lot of people with Windows 8/8.1

    Unfortunately, Microsoft has to appease these people, thus we get compromises

    But I still think Build 9926 is pretty good. Certainly its light years ahead of the earlier builds.
    02-17-2015 08:34 PM
  22. mister2d's Avatar
    I think you are missing what I'm actually saying.

    If you are saying no one used the fast app switching (which I doubt), then how are you switching between apps?

    Are you connecting your keyboard and hitting alt-tab? Are you going back to the start menu and launching the app again? Please do tell.
    02-17-2015 08:47 PM
  23. sashlon's Avatar
    No, I did misunderstand, but it dawned on me what you meant.

    I'm not saying no one used it. I'm saying that its a feature that I bet a lot of users didn't like.

    Because everyone decided all the new stuff in 8/8.1 was bad without actually using it themselves. Hence Microsoft needing to 'dumb it down'.
    02-17-2015 09:27 PM
  24. mister2d's Avatar
    No, I did misunderstand, but it dawned on me what you meant.

    I'm not saying no one used it. I'm saying that its a feature that I bet a lot of users didn't like.

    Because everyone decided all the new stuff in 8/8.1 was bad without actually using it themselves. Hence Microsoft needing to 'dumb it down'.
    Eh.. whatever.

    I'm not so sure you can vouch for the amount of people you talk for. Unless you have some hard data that Microsoft has usage stats on, you're just wildly speculating.
    02-17-2015 10:20 PM
49 12

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