02-17-2015 10:20 PM
49 12
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  1. Salokinos's Avatar
    In a pinch this is how I feel so far:
    Windows 7 equaled great desktop UI, but horrible (and obviously not designed) for touch.
    Windows 8, a great tablet UI, but with serious deficiencies (more like unintuitive UI) for desktop/ non touch users.
    Windows 8.1 brought many grew changes for both tablets/ touch screen devices and non touch screen devices. It isn't perfect by any means but they seemed headed in the right direction.
    Windows 10 has a great desktop. The decisions here seem on the money, but what happened to that fantastic touch UI? There are so many issues so far that I cringe using it in tablet mode. For example: Snapping two apps side by side is now much less intuitive, having a blank desktop while tablet mode seems pointless, getting to all applications is cumbersome and not nearly as slick as windows 8.1. Cortana search (I know its still Beta) is far inferior to the hero and start screen search. I loved being able to swipe in from the left to switch programs. Now I get this grid of thumbnails representing my open apps, it isn't horrible, but you have to touch this tiny x to close each thumbnail, why can't we swipe down to close them like in windows phone 8.1? There are some things I like: Making desktop and modern (store applications) behave the way, and i do like the notification center as well the idea behind continuum mode or whatever it is called, I just hope that it gets a lot more touch friendly before the final release, so that I will enjoy my surface as much as I did in the past.


    I'm just wondering if anyone else feels this way. Am I alone my opinion? Please forgive the spelling/ grammar errors. I've typed this on my Lumia 1520 on a quick break at work.

    Cheers,
    Niko
    Southgarden116 and Vistaus like this.
    02-09-2015 08:43 PM
  2. Coreldan's Avatar
    I rolled back to 8.1. pretty soon, the tablet/touch side of things was so heavily lacking at this point.

    I think 8.1 is really close to perfection, all they would have to add is some choices for people (like if they want to use an old style start screen, just let them tick a box for it).
    Vistaus likes this.
    02-10-2015 01:29 AM
  3. anon(5335899)'s Avatar
    It was very clearly announced touch is _very_ early and rough in the current TP. And frankly, desktop is not much different from 8.1 or 8 really. Only exception is the start menu which I personally do not care for anyway.
    RichardBurt likes this.
    02-10-2015 04:32 AM
  4. hagjohn's Avatar
    It's more like 7.10 than 10. From what I've seen of the TP, touch mode is going to suffer. Start screen has the start menu in it. The start menu is a mess. The new icons for the os are absolutely horrible looking. Possible task bar when in tablet mode. What was nice about 8.x was it's simplicity, it's cleanliness ... and from what I see of 7.10, so far and it's early so it could change, it's a cluttered mess.
    Vistaus likes this.
    02-10-2015 04:57 AM
  5. anon(5335899)'s Avatar
    I assume you read my response and are aware of what MSFT has been very clear about? Or are you just hitting reply to get your pointless, biased and uninformed 2cts in..?
    02-10-2015 07:02 AM
  6. nmercy's Avatar
    I do hope they make the tablet mode more like Windows 8/8.1 though I do fear that they'll go so anti-8 that they'll trash the good things about 8.

    As has been said, this is an early look at it and continuum mode basically just says "hey, we do plan to make the tablet/desktop experiences different but we're not ready to show you that."

    I would expect the next build or the one after that to have the full tablet mode actually implemented as it should be fairly similar to the phone version in terms of look and interaction... especially if the reports of June RTM are correct.
    Vistaus likes this.
    02-10-2015 07:09 AM
  7. anon(5335899)'s Avatar
    I would expect the tablet experience to be more like the phone, yes. This would actually make sense and IMO will certainly be an improvement and provide a solid and consistent UI and UX across touch form factors. If this means the start screen on phones will also rotate depending on the position of he phone that would be even better.
    Vistaus likes this.
    02-10-2015 07:13 AM
  8. hyperthermia's Avatar
    omg yes i hate the win 10 tablet mode interface too. the best way to fix this is to hide the taskbar and the start menu and yet make it available when a forced swipe is made. pulling the tiles to the right should bring out the start menu and a bottom edge swipe should show the taskbar at autohide. fast app switching is also more efficient in the touch mode and the way we open two windows side by side. you can keep those grid of open apps on the desktop mode. i respect the desktop improvements to make it more friendly to users but the tablet mode should be a real tablet interface and not desktop with programs/apps maximized. i wanted to update my surface pro 3 but its a tablet first for me and i just cant accept that design. windows 8.1 minus the desktop plus apps should have been the best mobile os. and while waiting for those apps to come we dont need to settle for a maximized desktop to use a windows tablet.
    02-10-2015 07:26 AM
  9. Coreldan's Avatar
    My biggest problem at this time (since touch still isnt nearly finished, I almost hope its more like "barely started") is that they butchered snapping and the mouse shortcuts from Windows 8. I want to cycle through stuff by clicking the top left corner, I want to be able to see the "modern alt tab screen" from there too. I want to close modern apps by dragging em down too. More importantly, I want to snap like I used to be able to, one of the best features of Win 8 for me. The new "improved" aerosnap is something, but far inferior.
    02-10-2015 01:23 PM
  10. anon(5335899)'s Avatar
    I sure hope you are using the feedback tool to let MSFT know what you think?!
    joepan likes this.
    02-10-2015 02:02 PM
  11. Coreldan's Avatar
    I did write it somewhere, but it seemed a bit hard to do/use/give feedback, but it's a while ago already so I dont remember why I felt that way. It's a bit of a dilemma cos in a way I would like to actively participate in trying to shape Win 10 so that I would want to use it too, but using it at the moment is so excruciating that I cant get myself to use it. At the same time I'm pretty sure the things I'm hoping for will never happen, though.

    Even for my desktop PC usage, I'm seriously considering sticking to Windows 8.1 unless they change ALOT about how Windows 10 works now. I dont like the idea that I'd stick to an old OS when I can upgrade for free, but it feels more like a downgrade, once again, UNLESS things radically change.
    02-11-2015 03:55 AM
  12. anon(5335899)'s Avatar
    There's a specific app installed with the TP to provide feedback, how hard can it be. Frankly anyone moaning and complaining about anything and not provide feedback IMO should be ignored. If you can spend the time to complain but not to provide the feedback to MSFT you are not really interested in getting this product better.
    JamesDax and timster01 like this.
    02-11-2015 04:22 AM
  13. JamesDax's Avatar
    Well we won't know until the finished product is release. As it is now in this pre beta tech preview, it certainly could be better and it most likely will be as MS tweaks the OS based off the user feedback they get from this pre beta tech preview. Personally, I don't think it's that bad.
    02-11-2015 07:04 AM
  14. JamesDax's Avatar
    I did write it somewhere, but it seemed a bit hard to do/use/give feedback, but it's a while ago already so I dont remember why I felt that way. It's a bit of a dilemma cos in a way I would like to actively participate in trying to shape Win 10 so that I would want to use it too, but using it at the moment is so excruciating that I cant get myself to use it. At the same time I'm pretty sure the things I'm hoping for will never happen, though.

    Even for my desktop PC usage, I'm seriously considering sticking to Windows 8.1 unless they change ALOT about how Windows 10 works now. I dont like the idea that I'd stick to an old OS when I can upgrade for free, but it feels more like a downgrade, once again, UNLESS things radically change.
    ​Nothing hard about the user feed back tool. Sounds to me like you shouldn't have installed this tech preview in the first place.
    02-11-2015 07:06 AM
  15. hlov's Avatar
    Mate, it's crape, feel exactly the same as you, they are ruining the touch UI. it looks like Metro IE is out and it's their best browser ever. I don't use any of the streaming apps cos the websites work pretty well on it.
    I will stay on W 8.1 and WP 8.1
    02-11-2015 07:26 AM
  16. nmercy's Avatar
    Mate, it's crape, feel exactly the same as you, they are ruining the touch UI. it looks like Metro IE is out and it's their best browser ever. I don't use any of the streaming apps cos the websites work pretty well on it.
    I will stay on W 8.1 and WP 8.1
    They most likely will just have the apps reskin themselves when they go between desktop and tablet mode in continuum. Continuum most likely sets a flag so this should be possible... I also imagine that when that flag gets flipped things will also act a lot more like 8.1 does now, they just haven't implemented it yet.
    02-11-2015 07:49 AM
  17. dandrayan's Avatar
    It's still lacking features and pretty buggy on my Dell Venue 8 Pro, so I've found myself avoiding Tablet Mode. I can't display the menu or use the minimize and close buttons because of a bug that hides the menu bar. I've filed feedback on everything I've found and strongly encourage everyone else to do the same through the built-in Windows Feedback app. Describe your issues in detail and submit screenshots to Microsoft!
    JamesDax likes this.
    02-11-2015 10:49 AM
  18. rory753's Avatar
    the win10 TP is really for desktop at this moment, and not really for tablets. I wouldn't install on my primary device if it was a tablet/sp2. I do like seeing the progress they've made in some of the areas. for instance, the camera app is the same as the lumia camera app. we now actually have a word/excel/powerpoint that's meant for tablets. powerpoint is really cool, since you can create a drawing board during a presentation. I'm still pretty hesitant to use it for my work, but I really want this capability. there are things lacking, though, but its a preview. you're suppose to find fault with it and report it to msft. that's the whole point.

    in fact, why are you commenting here, and not to msft?
    02-11-2015 11:11 AM
  19. Toni76's Avatar
    It looks like a lose-lose situation for Microsoft. They cannot please everyone. Now all the desktop users are going to be happy, and the people that liked Windows 8/8.1 will complain.
    02-11-2015 12:54 PM
  20. Skamath's Avatar
    In a pinch this is how I feel so far:
    Windows 7 equaled great desktop UI, but horrible (and obviously not designed) for touch.
    Windows 8, a great tablet UI, but with serious deficiencies (more like unintuitive UI) for desktop/ non touch users.
    Windows 8.1 brought many grew changes for both tablets/ touch screen devices and non touch screen devices. It isn't perfect by any means but they seemed headed in the right direction.
    Windows 10 has a great desktop. The decisions here seem on the money, but what happened to that fantastic touch UI? There are so many issues so far that I cringe using it in tablet mode. For example: Snapping two apps side by side is now much less intuitive, having a blank desktop while tablet mode seems pointless, getting to all applications is cumbersome and not nearly as slick as windows 8.1. Cortana search (I know its still Beta) is far inferior to the hero and start screen search. I loved being able to swipe in from the left to switch programs. Now I get this grid of thumbnails representing my open apps, it isn't horrible, but you have to touch this tiny x to close each thumbnail, why can't we swipe down to close them like in windows phone 8.1? There are some things I like: Making desktop and modern (store applications) behave the way, and i do like the notification center as well the idea behind continuum mode or whatever it is called, I just hope that it gets a lot more touch friendly before the final release, so that I will enjoy my surface as much as I did in the past.


    I'm just wondering if anyone else feels this way. Am I alone my opinion? Please forgive the spelling/ grammar errors. I've typed this on my Lumia 1520 on a quick break at work.

    Cheers,
    Niko
    For some gr8 points that you make have you given feedback to MS? I am sure they will consider the swipe down to close in tablet mode.
    02-11-2015 01:05 PM
  21. Rem97's Avatar
    For some gr8 points that you make have you given feedback to MS? I am sure they will consider the swipe down to close in tablet mode.
    Swipe down to close was shown at the 21/1 event. Maybe it'll be included in an upcoming build, if it's not there currently.
    02-11-2015 01:14 PM
  22. TechFreak1's Avatar
    In a pinch this is how I feel so far:
    •Windows 7 equaled great desktop UI, but horrible (and obviously not designed) for touch.
    •Windows 8, a great tablet UI, but with serious deficiencies (more like unintuitive UI) for desktop/ non touch users.
    • Windows 8.1 brought many grew changes for both tablets/ touch screen devices and non touch screen devices. It isn't perfect by any means but they seemed headed in the right direction.
    • Windows 10 has a great desktop. The decisions here seem on the money, but what happened to that fantastic touch UI? There are so many issues so far that I cringe using it in tablet mode. For example: Snapping two apps side by side is now much less intuitive, having a blank desktop while tablet mode seems pointless, getting to all applications is cumbersome and not nearly as slick as windows 8.1. Cortana search (I know its still Beta) is far inferior to the hero and start screen search. I loved being able to swipe in from the left to switch programs. Now I get this grid of thumbnails representing my open apps, it isn't horrible, but you have to touch this tiny x to close each thumbnail, why can't we swipe down to close them like in windows phone 8.1? There are some things I like: Making desktop and modern (store applications) behave the way, and i do like the notification center as well the idea behind continuum mode or whatever it is called, I just hope that it gets a lot more touch friendly before the final release, so that I will enjoy my surface as much as I did in the past.


    I'm just wondering if anyone else feels this way. Am I alone my opinion? Please forgive the spelling/ grammar errors. I've typed this on my Lumia 1520 on a quick break at work.

    Cheers,
    Niko
    There are three parties to be blamed here

    1) Enterprise customers
    2) Microsoft
    3) OEMs

    Blame the enterprise customers, it was far to alien for them and so Windows 10 was designed to bring them back into the fold. So in the process the charms and left to switch was deemed unintuitive.

    Blame MS for not making adequate tutorials in the first place and for being to narrow minded in their approach when they built Windows 8. When they started developing it, the world was gearing up for touch and it was envisioned everyone would be using touch however there was no Plan B put in place to placate mouse + keyboard users and the enterprise users - W8.1 came too late. After your done blaming MS, blame the OEM's for shipping laptops without touch which just added fuel to the fire.
    02-11-2015 08:35 PM
  23. Alain_A's Avatar
    that's a lot of blaming...LOL^^^^^^^
    02-11-2015 10:26 PM
  24. rory753's Avatar
    Swipe to close is currently available I the present builds.
    02-12-2015 07:25 AM
  25. Wevenhuis's Avatar
    My experience between windows 8.x and windows 10 on my surface pro is a mixed bag.

    Windows 8.0
    startscreen had a clean and natural feel on the surface pro for me. Accessing apps list was a bit problematic through the start screen app bar-> softbutton-> applist. Quickly got used to swtiching apps from the left screen edge. Charms bar need a bit to get used to, but was very powerful. Instant access to settings features and quick toggles and the showing the date and time. Search was very powerful, bing, search, file search, app search and settings search even full screen on selection. No bluetooth quick toggle though. Also the charmsbar supported in app search, a dream to use, simply lovely! Apps had app bars voor quick access of hidden functions at the top and bottom edge of the screen. A simple swipe is enough. Convenient. If you need them, they're just a swipe away. Quick app switching menu is a simple left edge back and forth swipe. Apps could be resized while snapping.

    Winodws 8.1
    App list becomes a swipe up from the bottom edge. Snapping apps refined, even up to 4 app on some devices. In app search if fased out in favor of developer control of in app search. Search bars in each app all dirrent and all over the place. Search capabilities of charms bar toned down in favor of bing search and a more basic non-full featured search capabilities, compared to windows 8.0. User login and search key and right click menu options for mouse/keyboard use in modern UI added. That's two search buttons right next to each other (start menu top right and in the charms bar only an inch from it). Still no bluetooth toggle. More apps use the app bar functionality. Easily accessible through a single swipe. Start menu button added for mouse/keyobard users.

    Windows 10
    Charms bar replaced with action center. Quick toggles section at the lower right remains, More than half do not have quick toggle functionality, but are links to pc settings, unlike the toggles in windows 8.

    60-70 of the action center is used for notifications. It has currently no other functionality (no quick settings toggle menu's, no search, no access to start, no access to share, no direct access to devices, no quick access to search). Date and time label is gone.

    Left swipe now gives app switch alt+tab like function. Swiping and app snapping is gone. It is replaced by swipe-> alt+tab menu-> press pictogram of app to activate it-> app goes full screen-> if your want to snap it you can then swipe slighly down from the top and drag it to the left or right side. Only two apps at a time can be snapped. Resizing not an option. This increases the user touch experience effectively from 2 swipes/actions for two apps to 4 swipes.

    Swipe up from the bottom edge only has a function if taskbar is set to auto-hide.

    Taskbar seems to be the "new app bar" of sorts. It is 25% less wide than the charms bar, start, search, pinned apps to the taskbar and the system tray icons are 25-30% smaller than the icons and functions in the charms bar. Makes pressing the icons and functions more difficult. Time and date is font size 8-9, difficult to read on a tablet sized device.

    Currently in 9926 in tablet mode.

    The function of the taskbar is too small for touch ergonomics and is a huge compromise in my experience compared to winodws 8 on a surface pro.

    The hidden taskbar is a hit or miss affair with regard to hiding. It is often stuck in many apps and blocks access to the app bars in many apps. It's also always there even when a video is full screen.

    The hidden taskbar does not stay unhidden when I stop swiping goes down within a second.


    The start menu in tablet mode only lets users use 75% of the screen to pin live tiles. The left edge is used for locations and most recently used. I can not use this area to pin live tiles. Locations and most recently used are also available as live tiles, so it seems not necessary to dedicate this screen to that in tablet mode. Its and unnecessary doubling of functions in the same screen. It's dysfunctional in tablet mode.

    Apps are only scrollable verical now in both portrait and landscape mode. I notice that a horizontal scroll in landscape mode for me is more natural and ergnomic, just like windows 8. It would also make more effective use of the whole start menu canvas in landscape mode. Currently there is too much empty space that can be used for live tiles without getting the feeling of more clutter.

    Microsoft has changed strategy for accessing app functions. In winodws 8 this was the charmsbar settings and the app bars. Now it has changed to the hamburger menu in a tiny-tiny icon in the top left corner off apps, accisble through a swipe down. To access this you have to press the app command butoon in this menu to open the app bars. Many apps are adopting this function. The single swipe is being phased out. This will increase user input effectively by three clicks.
    These are some of the things I notice with winodows 8 and 10 while using a surface pro as an actual tablet. Looking from a desktop perspective I can understand the design and UI changes made to windows 10. But from a tablet perspective, windows 10 has a poor tablet experience as of version 9926 on a surface pro. Currently winodws 8 has a better tablet experience overall hands down in my experience.

    I would say windows 10 has some tablet experience, but I wouldn't call this a tablet experience. I think windows 8 is the better benchmark for this comparisson. If this is the current windows 10 experience I wouldn't recommend surface or tablet owners to do this, but just saty with windows 8.1.

    Although this is only the technical preview version, in my experience technical previews have shown that the basic experience scaffolding will still be as it is shown now. That get's me worried. Microsoft has shown with winodws 8 that they are capable of changing things with updates, but not all experiences for the tablet side of windows 8 has been good. A good example is the big change made by phasing out iin app search and full OS search capabilities with the charms search bar. The major changes made were mostly relevant to improve the overall desktop experience.

    I believe for tablet expience it is better to currently give plenty of feedback and uservoice on paying attention to the tablet eperience. But other than that just wait and take a sit back. Beacuase for RTM. release its going to be all desktop at first and tablet last. I have a feeling that tablet will, just like what happened with the desktop updates in winodws 8, it will not be untill december 2016 or even later before we see a significant tablet improvement like a 10.1 update. There are generally more desktop and laptop winodws users. User feedback was huge in windows 8 that more support was needed for a better desktop experience. This userbase will go first. Surface and tablet owners are niche.

    My advice stick with windows 8 on your surface till the desktop users are satisfied, then start ramping up feedback on the tablet side. Windows 10 is far from ready for the upgrade for a tablet/surface pro right now, even at RTM.
    02-12-2015 08:31 AM
49 12

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