04-21-2015 09:22 AM
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  1. swanlee's Avatar
    Well with the latest AMD rumor that Win 10 is releasing in July I think it is safe to say Tablet users are screwed.

    Win 10 is NOWHERE near ready on Tablets, it is still a nightmare of Taskbars, address bars, tab bars, removed swipe commands and incomplete functions of the notification center if they want to use that to replace charm bars. Their is no way on earth MS will have Win 10 ready by July and give even a comparable experience for Tablet users compared to Win 8.

    Win 10 currently looks and feels very much like trying to use Win 7 on tablets and is a huge step back from how well Win 8 worked on tablets.

    Their is simply to much to fix or add to get Win 10 up to snuff for tablets by July.
    Last edited by swanlee; 04-20-2015 at 07:55 AM.
    cool8man likes this.
    04-20-2015 07:03 AM
  2. Zulfigar's Avatar
    Yeah... No. Still too soon, and still enough time to mess around and perfect tablet mode.
    rhapdog likes this.
    04-20-2015 07:26 AM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Win 10 currently looks and feels very much like trying to use Win 7 on tablets and is a huge step back from how well Win 8 worked on tablets.
    The initial backlash regarding Windows 8 came as a result of desktop users feeling forsaken for tablet/touch users. Microsoft is not making that mistake again.
    rhapdog likes this.
    04-20-2015 09:12 AM
  4. swanlee's Avatar
    Their is NO reason to screw up Tablet mode in Win 10 to appease the screaming Desktop users.

    Their are two modes now, their is no reason that Tablet mode can't be properly optimized for Tablets and act like win 8.1.

    Just because MS made a mistake with Win 8 and desktop users doesn't mean they have to **** up Win 10 for tablet users.
    04-20-2015 09:21 AM
  5. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    "Win 10 rumored release in July = Tablets are screwed"

    Yes, because we all know that what we have seen so far in preview builds is *all* they are working on, they don't have any more surprises coming. They only have two guys, Gabe Aul is doing all the decision making and Joe Belfiore is writing and compiling all the code himself. Making an awesome recycle bin icon is about all that is left to do before RTM. <obviously sarcasm but I'll put this tag here anyway for those who don't get it>

    Sheesh... the current 10049 works pretty good on my Surface Pro 3 tablet, but I never use tablet mode. It seems that the definition of "tablet mode" has become "make everything run exclusively full screen so you can only see one thing (maybe two or three if you snap them) at a time. No thanks, if I wanted that experience I would not have got rid of the iPad.

    It seems like a short time between now and end of July, but they definitely have the resources to throw at this project.
    04-20-2015 09:27 AM
  6. ajayden's Avatar
    Well with the latest AMD rumor that Win 10 is releasing in July I think it is safe to say Tablet users are screwed.

    Win 10 is NOWHERE near ready on Tablets, it is still a nightmare of Taskbars, address bars, tab bars, removed swipe commands and incomplete functions of the notification center if they want to use that to replace charm bars. Their is no way on earth MS will have Win 10 ready by July and give even a comparable experience for Tablet users compared to Win 8.

    Win 10 currently looks and feels very much like trying to use Win 7 on tablets and is a huge step back from how well Win 8 worked on tablets.

    Their is simply to much to fix or add to get Win 10 up to snuff for tablets by July.
    God himself has failed to create the "Perfect" human being. With millions of years of evolution we still are far away from having the "Perfect" human being. Examples are galore.

    So chill out and wait for the day of release. Even Satya Nadella is more calm and composed than you.
    JohnStrk and rhapdog like this.
    04-20-2015 09:41 AM
  7. swanlee's Avatar
    I've been in the preview program since the start and have heard what the devs intend and Win 10 is horrible on Tablets and WILL be horrible on Tablets cause they have this misguided idea that they can just tweak a couple of desktop things and some how make it usable on a Tablet.

    You want to know a failure? Windows 7 tablets were a failure and alot of the reason was cause of how horrible it is trying to use the Desktop on a tablet. Win 8 was infinitely better for Tablets and now MS wants to go back to the Windows 7 GUI model for Tablets whihc is a HUGE step backwards.

    I'm sorry but I've been hearing the same excuses from the start that the Os is not done yet and to wait for release well sorry but that is just total BS. We are VERY VERY close to release, MS is not going to make the major changes needed in the last couple of weeks to get Win 10 on par with win 8 as far as Tablet use goes. They simply aren't going to be able to fix the OS in time.
    04-20-2015 10:24 AM
  8. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Their is NO reason to screw up Tablet mode in Win 10 to appease the screaming Desktop users.

    Their are two modes now, their is no reason that Tablet mode can't be properly optimized for Tablets and act like win 8.1.

    Just because MS made a mistake with Win 8 and desktop users doesn't mean they have to **** up Win 10 for tablet users.
    Have you seen IDC's tablet market share rankings? Windows tablets are forecast to increase to only 7% from 5.1%. The "screaming" desktop users have a much larger say in this matter. I don't normally do this but, IDC: Windows tablets market share expected to grow by 7 percent in 2015
    rhapdog likes this.
    04-20-2015 10:29 AM
  9. swanlee's Avatar
    Have you seen IDC's tablet market share rankings? Windows tablets are forecast to increase to only 7% from 5.1%. The "screaming" desktop users have a much larger say in this matter. I don't normally do this but, IDC: Windows tablets market share expected to grow by 7 percent in 2015
    It does not matter what the market share is MS did not have to edited Tablet mode. Making Tablet mode pretty useless on a Tablet in no way helpd Desktop users.

    MS could have spent LESS time and Energy if you just did this

    Desktop mode = Win 10

    Tablet mode = Win 8 GUI with tweaks.

    Unless you are trying to say that Desktop users wanted VENGENCE!!! for Win 8 it makes no sense for MS to gimp Tablet mode. Tablet mode is separate and Desktop users NEVER have to even use it if they don't want to.


    Why even bother with Desktop and Tablet modes if Tablet mode works alot worse in Win 10 than out of the box Win 8?

    It would have been better if MS just concentrated on making Desktop mode as good as it can for Desktops and just port over the Win 8 GUI for Tablet mode. It would have been less work and Tablet users would have been happy.
    04-20-2015 10:59 AM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    It does not matter what the market share is MS did not have to edited Tablet mode. Making Tablet mode pretty useless on a Tablet in no way helpd Desktop users.

    MS could have spent LESS time and Energy if you just did this

    Desktop mode = Win 10

    Tablet mode = Win 8 GUI with tweaks.

    Unless you are trying to say that Desktop users wanted VENGENCE!!! for Win 8 it makes no sense for MS to gimp Tablet mode. Tablet mode is separate and Desktop users NEVER have to even use it if they don't want to.


    Why even bother with Desktop and Tablet modes if Tablet mode works alot worse in Win 10 than out of the box Win 8?

    It would have been better if MS just concentrated on making Desktop mode as good as it can for Desktops and just port over the Win 8 GUI for Tablet mode. It would have been less work and Tablet users would have been happy.
    There's no conspiracy against tablet users or any hidden agenda. It's a straight up smart business move. Microsoft is a software company and Windows is the standard bearer. If the majority of the users are desktop and/or enterprise, they're the ones who have Microsoft's ear. They're the ones who buy the most paid services and they get to call the shots. I'm sorry if you're offended by this practice but that's the way it is. There's nothing nefarious going on, just good old-fashioned Capitalism at its best on display.
    rhapdog likes this.
    04-20-2015 11:08 AM
  11. swanlee's Avatar
    There's no conspiracy against tablet users or any hidden agenda. It's a straight up smart business move. Microsoft is a software company and Windows is the standard bearer. If the majority of the users are desktop and/or enterprise, they're the ones who have Microsoft's ear. They're the ones who buy the most paid services and they get to call the shots. I'm sorry if you're offended by this practice but that's the way it is. There's nothing nefarious going on, just good old-fashioned Capitalism at its best on display.

    I agree that Desktop has MS's ear what I'm trying to understand is why MS has gone out of the way to **** up Tablet mode in win 10.

    If MS is more concerned with Desktop users and their ever loud complaints why did they have to go through the trouble of screwing up Win 10 on Tablet's?

    MS would have been better off being lazy and not messing with the Win 8 GUI for tablets when developing Win 10.

    I'm trying to make the point MS actually spent more time, effort and money mucking up Tablet mode for Win 10 when it made more sense to just use what was already built in Win 8 as far as a Tablet GUI goes.

    Seriously do you understand my point at all? If everything you say is true then MS should have just ignored spending time on Tablet mode and just slapped what they already had in place with Win 8 when the user switched to "Tablet" Mode. I think both Tablet and Desktop users would have been happier with that.
    04-20-2015 11:41 AM
  12. theefman's Avatar
    Stick with Windows 8, I will be. No reason to follow the herd and upgrade to an inferior tablet experience just because Microsoft says so.
    04-20-2015 11:52 AM
  13. swanlee's Avatar
    Stick with Windows 8, I will be. No reason to follow the herd and upgrade to an inferior tablet experience just because Microsoft says so.
    What I like about Win 10 is Cortana, Spartan, Xbox game streaming and a couple of other tweaks.

    But yea if the Tablet mode isn't fixed to at least be on par to Win 8 I'm avoiding it on my main tablet. I have Win 10 installed on my old Surface my wife uses and it really blows for tablet's.
    04-20-2015 11:57 AM
  14. theefman's Avatar
    What I like about Win 10 is Cortana, Spartan, Xbox game streaming and a couple of other tweaks.

    But yea if the Tablet mode isn't fixed to at least be on par to Win 8 I'm avoiding it on my main tablet. I have Win 10 installed on my old Surface my wife uses and it really blows for tablet's.
    For me, those new features aren't worth enduring a poor tablet experience so as long as Win 8 keeps getting security updates I have no problem staying with it. Plus cortana in particular is just a gimmick, hardly use it on my phone, let alone a tablet which would most likely have an inferior microphone, judging by current standards.
    04-20-2015 12:02 PM
  15. swanlee's Avatar
    For me, those new features aren't worth enduring a poor tablet experience so as long as Win 8 keeps getting security updates I have no problem staying with it. Plus cortana in particular is just a gimmick, hardly use it on my phone, let alone a tablet which would most likely have an inferior microphone, judging by current standards.
    Yep I agree so far their isn't any real compelling reason for Tablet user to go to Win 10 and alot of compelling reasons not to. Cortana does work fairly well on my phone and Surface and I'm really wanting to use Xbox one streaming.

    I'll just grab my old surface pro when i want to do that I guess as in this form Win 10 is not getting anywhere near my Acer W4 which i use several hours each day.

    If MS does not improve it in later OS releases Win 8 may be the Win XP for Tablets.
    04-20-2015 12:05 PM
  16. theefman's Avatar
    Yep I agree so far their isn't any real compelling reason for Tablet user to go to Win 10 and alot of compelling reasons not to.

    If Ms does not improve it in later OS releases Win 8 may be the Win XP for Tablets.
    I'm sure they wont, the fact they think the desktop taskbar is a viable feature for tablets says to me it'll take another epic failure like they had with Win 8 to bring about any meaningful change.
    04-20-2015 12:10 PM
  17. rhapdog's Avatar
    smh... another "the sky is falling" fanatic. So tired of this.

    The majority of time is spent on the "core" of the OS. That which makes the hardware work. What you are complaining about is simple UI features that haven't been implemented as of yet.

    Before I retired from programming, I spent 95-98% of my time on the core code that no one ever saw. I spent 2-5% of my time customizing the user interface to be what the users of the software wanted and make it interact the way they wanted to interact.

    Microsoft has been working on the 95%. They have not spent all this time (years) working on the interface. They are now down to the final 2-3% (because SOME of the UI is done, not all) and you don't think they can do the final 2% in just a few months? Buy an iPad and shut up. I'll enjoy Windows 10 in tablet mode when it gets here.

    I'm sorry if this comes across as me being rude, but some people need a wake up call. You can whine when it's released if it doesn't meet your expectations then. Until then, you don't know jack, because you obviously don't understand how the programming process works. And please don't try to convince me you understand all the nuances of programming in an environment like at Microsoft. You obviously don't and have proven that with your tirade.
    04-20-2015 12:48 PM
  18. swanlee's Avatar
    smh... another "the sky is falling" fanatic. So tired of this.

    The majority of time is spent on the "core" of the OS. That which makes the hardware work. What you are complaining about is simple UI features that haven't been implemented as of yet.

    Before I retired from programming, I spent 95-98% of my time on the core code that no one ever saw. I spent 2-5% of my time customizing the user interface to be what the users of the software wanted and make it interact the way they wanted to interact.

    Microsoft has been working on the 95%. They have not spent all this time (years) working on the interface. They are now down to the final 2-3% (because SOME of the UI is done, not all) and you don't think they can do the final 2% in just a few months? Buy an iPad and shut up. I'll enjoy Windows 10 in tablet mode when it gets here.

    I'm sorry if this comes across as me being rude, but some people need a wake up call. You can whine when it's released if it doesn't meet your expectations then. Until then, you don't know jack, because you obviously don't understand how the programming process works. And please don't try to convince me you understand all the nuances of programming in an environment like at Microsoft. You obviously don't and have proven that with your tirade.

    It is pretty stupid to tell people they can whine when it is released when that is to late for them to change anything. This is a public Beta almost all of our complaints about Tablet mode are not glitches or bugs but very deliberate design decisions that we hope they could reverse due to our feedback before the product is released.

    Right now would be the worst time to be quiet about these issues since we actually hope MS listens and changes the current course they are on involving Tablet mode. MS could very easily give us a few details of how they plan to address our complaints in future builds if they wanted to shut up our complaints.

    Right now their is no indication that MS is going to remove the taskbar from Tablet mode, Bring back alot of the Win 8 swipe commands or add in the missing features to the Notification center since they nuked charm bars.

    If MS wants to ease our concerns they can certainly speak out in fairly generic terms how they are going to address our issues. I've left tons of feedback in the win 10 feedback app, posted alot on the official Win 10 insider forums and tweeted alot of the Win 10 devs about these concerns and have not gotten one ounce of feedback from anyone that give any indication MS plans to address these issues.
    sonus likes this.
    04-20-2015 12:59 PM
  19. jhoff80's Avatar
    The majority of time is spent on the "core" of the OS. That which makes the hardware work. What you are complaining about is simple UI features that haven't been implemented as of yet.

    ​(...)

    Microsoft has been working on the 95%. They have not spent all this time (years) working on the interface. They are now down to the final 2-3% (because SOME of the UI is done, not all) and you don't think they can do the final 2% in just a few months? Buy an iPad and shut up. I'll enjoy Windows 10 in tablet mode when it gets here.

    For 'tablet mode' to work, it can't​ be something that is done in the last 2-3%. For it to be a good experience, you can't just tack on a few things and call it a day. That's why tablet mode sucks as it is already. To be a good experience, that tablet mode switch (when enabled) has to affect every aspect of the core OS, not just be a few tweaks on top of a poor foundation. The reason that Windows 8 works on tablets is because they completely re-thought how a modern operating system should work on a tablet.. not because they tacked on a few UI things at the end.
    04-20-2015 01:12 PM
  20. rhapdog's Avatar
    It is pretty stupid to tell people they can whine when it is released when that is to late for them to change anything. This is a public Beta almost all of our complaints about Tablet mode are not glitches or bugs but very deliberate design decisions that we hope they could reverse due to our feedback before the product is released.

    Right now would be the worst time to be quiet about these issues ....
    Yes, it is fine to raise feedback to Microsoft. Where I take offense is when you start saying, "We're screwed, because there is no way!" That's not helpful discussion. It's "The sky is falling and we're all going to die!" The problem isn't that you're dissatisfied with how Windows 10 is going, the problem is how you go about stating it. Think about that.

    For 'tablet mode' to work, it can't​ be something that is done in the last 2-3%. For it to be a good experience, you can't just tack on a few things and call it a day. That's why tablet mode sucks as it is already. To be a good experience, that tablet mode switch (when enabled) has to affect every aspect of the core OS, not just be a few tweaks on top of a poor foundation. The reason that Windows 8 works on tablets is because they completely re-thought how a modern operating system should work on a tablet.. not because they tacked on a few UI things at the end.
    You also have no idea how it works. It's not about "tacking on" features. It's about setting up the UI to access the core of the OS that has already had the foundation work done on it. I programmed for over 35 years before retiring. I know what I'm talking about. I've programmed an OS from the ground up. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.

    Let me tell you something, swipe gestures aren't the core of the OS. They are an implementation of the UI. Yes, those types of things are the final 2-3% of work on a massive operating system.

    I'm also still waiting for a decent word flow keyboard from Microsoft on this thing. That's my biggest gripe about touch right now. I can honestly make the other stuff at least work, even if it is a bit of a pain at times. However, I can't handle typing on the screen yet. It's totally unusable. Every bit as bad as screen typing on 8.1! Yeah, I said it. 8.1 sucks for tablets because it didn't have word flow. Get over it. I know you think 8.1 was perfect and 10 sucks, but 8.1 had some serious limitations as well.

    I'm hoping they will all get fixed, but I'm not on this forum complaining that the sky is falling. I'm getting on uservoice and making my voice be heard directly by Microsoft on the issues I care most about. That's what we need to be doing. Pick up on what you want done, and get on Uservoice to start doing something about it.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    04-20-2015 02:35 PM
  21. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Right now their is no indication that MS is going to remove the taskbar from Tablet mode, Bring back alot of the Win 8 swipe commands or add in the missing features to the Notification center since they nuked charm bars.
    Yeah, and? What if they don't do what you're complaining about? I use tablets and I prefer the taskbar instead of the charms bar. The taskbar is consistent across the board whereas the charms may or may not contain what you wish for. This reboot is about a consistent experience across ALL devices, not just those that cater to a select few. Maybe what you're looking for will come in the way of a 3rd party skin as was prevalent in years past. Maybe not, who knows? Fact of the matter remains that none of us know what the final build will end up looking like.
    rhapdog likes this.
    04-20-2015 10:53 PM
  22. Rasetech's Avatar
    Lets talk about the BIG BIG visual differences from the actual tablet mode to how Windows 8.1 works right now from my point of view as a software developer.

    One of the main differences is the appearance of the taskbar in the newly introduced tablet mode. Removing this in tablet mode needs a few lines of code and I am sure that this will be a customizable option in the final release.

    The next "big" thing is the appearance of the "start menu" like app list on the left side of the start menu. Removing this in tablet mode and reintroducing some kind of "show all apps" with an appropriate swipe gesture are again a few lines of code.

    Due to the lack of a touch device where i can run W10TP I cannot talk about missing touch gestures but most of the things I saw until now where UI changes which can be changed within days.
    rhapdog and colinkiama like this.
    04-21-2015 04:55 AM
  23. colinkiama's Avatar
    There are 3 months left. 3 months. Calm down there is still time
    rhapdog and Guzzler3 like this.
    04-21-2015 05:10 AM
  24. iamakii's Avatar
    I'm ready for Windows 8 2.0
    04-21-2015 05:17 AM
  25. Dusan Randj's Avatar
    I'm ready for Windows 8 2.0
    Just what he said.
    04-21-2015 05:23 AM
27 12

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