1. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    Let me preface by saying I happen to love Windows 10, from the cross-platform development potential all the way down to those evil hamburger menus (yup, I said I don't hate hamburgers menus. nah nah nah nah naaaaah nah). The issue I see with releasing these previews to such a large audience is that the bugs are noticeable by even the casual looker. Windows 10, at first glance, is an eye catcher. When I pull it out I get looks and questions about it all the time. From my experience the start screen, live tiles, and checkerboard menu that appears when you need to browse an app by first letter of title garner the most attention. I really hope they bring this back to the Music App. it takes up less real estate and just looks cooler than the new boring scroll menu when looking for artists/songs, but I digress.

    Now when people see those interesting spinning square thingies with all this information displayed on them, they're interested. A woman on the subway asked me if they had a news app that would flip over and show top headlines. I replied yes confidently. She was impressed. Here's where the problem kicks in. After showing her a live tile I then opened up the music preview app to go back to jamming while on the train. It froze, then the OS froze and I ended up having to reboot. So not only did she see the good she saw the bad,but she pretended not to. Now I wasn't going to go out of my way to tell a total stranger "hey it's just a preview, the finished product will be much more stable".

    It happens a lot in the gym too. The treadmills are in a large open space and they have these elevated machine behind them so people behind you can see what you're doing on their phone should they choose to and the people on either side of you can definitely see. Every time the phone crashes, or an app starts flaking out and I have to back out to the start screen it gets noticed. Lately the screen has been locking and I have to soft reset which ABSOLUTELY gets noticed because Im sitting there running while holding the power + volume button and looking at a black screen. People can tell my phone is acting up. Sometimes I have to do it multiple times during one run which really stands out.

    So am I peaking people's attention and at the very least making them curious about possibly picking up a Windows phone at their local Verizon store when their contract is up? Maybe. Is witnessing the bugs in action making those with an already skeptical and even smug view on the platform making them chuckle inside and say "ehhh I knew it". Also possible. I think if someone witnesses it in action at a time when nothing goes wrong it's great for the platform, but things like the "multiple reboot treadmill session" could possibly be giving them a reason to run the other way.

    Again I'm not going to announce to an entire gym that it's just a preview, and even if I did that's not very reassuring.
    I'm a developer myself and when we demo unfinished software at work to show people we aren't just sitting on our hands and SOMETHING is coming (kind of like you guys with the tech preview), the fact that it isn't finished doesn't matter to execs. The average user, like the corporate boss, doesn't care if it's done or not. They want to see something that works.

    I have full confidence in Windows 10, like the direction its headed and am confident that the issues will be resolved. I'm not so sure about potential new adopters though, and letting them see an unfinished product isn't necessarily a good thing.

    /rant
    05-23-2015 06:24 AM
  2. gpobernardo's Avatar
    1. Marketing applies only to products. Windows 10 isn't really a product, yet. It was announced as a preview, but it won't be logical to advertise something incomplete.

    2. Knowing that Windows 10 isn't finished yet, wouldn't it be wiser for the previewer to show/demo the more stable Windows Phone 8.1 instead if s/he wanted to encourage a third party to join the Windows Community? Or, if absolutely necessary, mention a disclaimer about the bugs inherent to preview builds before demonstrating the features of the preview OS, not after.

    3. The current bugs and defects of the preview won't really matter with regards to the perception of the public in the long run, provided that the final product won't be plagued by those same bugs. Unless those bugs lead to considerable damage or loss of lives, people would simply forget about them as soon as the final stable and advertise-able version is presented to them.

    4. As for selling Windows phones in stores, I have never encountered a sales staff member that is capable of demonstrating the features of a Windows Phone sufficient to convince a customer to buy one. They know the brand, the know the storage capacity, the megapixels, and the price... but that's it. As soon as I ask, "So what's new about it?" I get a ton of ridiculous answers. They're most of the time more well-versed on enumerating the features of an R2D2 phone or a fruit phone, which they're most probably using as a personal phone in the first place. In one of the local stores, I ended up partially demonstrating the features and capabilities of an on-display Lumia 1520 prompting those who saw me to go to the sales staff member and inquire about the phone that was in my hands. But then, this item constitutes a different topic on its own.
    05-23-2015 06:46 AM
  3. stevemind's Avatar
    Maybe its just me......i couldn't give a stuff about other people phones(but im in my 40s). I certainly dont ask what app is that! My phones my choice....My business! But i know everyone's wants the next best thing......UNTIL the next best thing comes out next week lol
    Be happy
    mary beth hale likes this.
    05-23-2015 06:53 AM
  4. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    1. Marketing applies only to products. Windows 10 isn't really a product, yet. It was announced as a preview, but it won't be logical to advertise something incomplete.

    2. Knowing that Windows 10 isn't finished yet, wouldn't it be wiser for the previewer to show/demo the more stable Windows Phone 8.1 instead if s/he wanted to encourage a third party to join the Windows Community? Or, if absolutely necessary, mention a disclaimer about the bugs inherent to preview builds before demonstrating the features of the preview OS, not after.

    3. The current bugs and defects of the preview won't really matter with regards to the perception of the public in the long run, provided that the final product won't be plagued by those same bugs. Unless those bugs lead to considerable damage or loss of lives, people would simply forget about them as soon as the final stable and advertise-able version is presented to them.

    4. As for selling Windows phones in stores, I have never encountered a sales staff member that is capable of demonstrating the features of a Windows Phone sufficient to convince a customer to buy one. They know the brand, the know the storage capacity, the megapixels, and the price... but that's it. As soon as I ask, "So what's new about it?" I get a ton of ridiculous answers. They're most of the time more well-versed on enumerating the features of an R2D2 phone or a fruit phone, which they're most probably using as a personal phone in the first place. In one of the local stores, I ended up partially demonstrating the features and capabilities of an on-display Lumia 1520 prompting those who saw me to go to the sales staff member and inquire about the phone that was in my hands. But then, this item constitutes a different topic on its own.
    Fine, but I'm not talking about formal demos. That's why I used the examples of casual encounters on the subway and in the gym. Those aren't really avoidable. The only way to not market an unfinished product in this case is to never take it outside. People are nosy and a lot of them love shiny new toys. When they see those tiles that they don't have, they're going to look.

    Windows 10 is absolutely a product. An unfinished one, but a product nonetheless and people are going to take notice because it looks different. Once they've made the decision to get into your "business" and check out your phone, if it starts flaking out they're going to notice. When they go into the AT&T store to get a new phone a few months later they're going to see Windows Phones and think "i remember seeing that guy with the phone with all the tiles on the train. He was having all kind sof problems with it and had to reboot". Add a Google fanboy sales rep who's already steering them away and there you have it.

    What you're saying makes sense if we're talking about people making a conscious decision to try to show off what Windows Phone can do. Then sure, showing off an 8.1 phone is a no brainer. I'm talking about unintentional marketing. Unless you're suggesting people with the TP installed never take it outside of their house I don't see how you avoid that.
    05-23-2015 07:14 AM
  5. gpobernardo's Avatar
    Fine, but I'm not talking about formal demos. That's why I used the examples of casual encounters on the subway and in the gym. Those aren't really avoidable. The only way to not market an unfinished product in this case is to never take it outside. People are nosy and a lot of them love shiny new toys. When they see those tiles that they don't have, they're going to look.

    Windows 10 is absolutely a product. An unfinished one, but a product nonetheless and people are going to take notice because it looks different. Once they've made the decision to get into your "business" and check out your phone, if it starts flaking out they're going to notice. When they go into the AT&T store to get a new phone a few months later they're going to see Windows Phones and think "i remember seeing that guy with the phone with all the tiles on the train. He was having all kind sof problems with it and had to reboot". Add a Google fanboy sales rep who's already steering them away and there you have it.

    What you're saying makes sense if we're talking about people making a conscious decision to try to show off what Windows Phone can do. Then sure, showing off an 8.1 phone is a no brainer. I'm talking about unintentional marketing. Unless you're suggesting people with the TP installed never take it outside of their house I don't see how you avoid that.
    I think it's part of the "responsibility" of a Technical Previewer or an Insider. Isn't helping Microsoft the entire point of the Insider or Technical Preview Program? Hence, Insiders could also help Microsoft further by at least mentioning, "Oh, hi. Yeah, it's Windows, 10 actually, but it's just a preview - bugs are still there but that's what we're here for," to those who would happen to glance at the new interesting OS in the insider's phone before the insider goes further in casually showing some of the new features of the OS. Saying those words isn't as much trouble as the risk of bricking an entire phone is, not to mention the persistent bugs that decrease the reliability of the phone.

    That's with the presumption that the "snooper" actually started a conversation with the Insider first. Without the conversation, that's just invasion of privacy and they're better left to wonder what it was that they saw with uncertainty. Unless they've got a really good memory, chances are they won't even remember 10% of what they saw from the preview OS - what would stick with them is what would be intentionally marketed/advertised to them once Windows 10 is officially launched.

    True, some may be discouraged now because of this "unintentional marketing", but I don't think that would matter - going back to #3 and the last clause in the previous paragraph before this sentence.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-23-2015 07:30 AM
  6. Jas00555's Avatar
    Now I wasn't going to go out of my way to tell a total stranger "hey it's just a preview, the finished product will be much more stable".
    Why not? Lol I do it literally every time someone asks about it. They'll ask about it and I'll just go "yeah, I'm on the beta" or something like that. I don't even think about it really. Honestly, people seem even more impressed when I tell them about being on the preview.

    "no way, they let you in on the beta? That must be super cool"

    It seems a little silly to me that it would be ok to show someone about the news and music apps, but "yeah, its a beta. There are a few bugs" seems "going out of your way".
    gpobernardo and Laura Knotek like this.
    05-23-2015 07:40 AM
  7. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    Why not? Lol I do it literally every time someone asks about it. They'll ask about it and I'll just go "yeah, I'm on the beta" or something like that. I don't even think about it really. Honestly, people seem even more impressed when I tell them about being on the preview.

    "no way, they let you in on the beta? That must be super cool"

    It seems a little silly to me that it would be ok to show someone about the news and music apps, but "yeah, its a beta. There are a few bugs" seems "going out of your way".
    Well to be fair the conversation had already ended and as I said I was already back in full on "headphones on, drowning out everyone on the train" mode and it wasn't like I looked to see if the person was staring at the phone when the issues started. It didn't even register until this morning which is kind of why I decided to start the thread.
    05-23-2015 08:38 AM
  8. Jas00555's Avatar
    Well to be fair the conversation had already ended and as I said I was already back in full on "headphones on, drowning out everyone on the train" mode and it wasn't like I looked to see if the person was staring at the phone when the issues started. It didn't even register until this morning which is kind of why I decided to start the thread.
    That's fair then. I thought you were saying that you didn't want to go into some long discussion about the preview, when it only takes like two seconds.
    gpobernardo and anon(5383410) like this.
    05-23-2015 09:28 AM

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