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11-24-2014 05:29 PM
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  1. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    11-18-2014 02:20 PM
  2. mcherrick68's Avatar
    IDK guys, I would argue that the 930/Icon is about as close to resembling a surface phone as can be. Maybe not exactly a surface phone, and certainly not branded as such, but the angular lines mixed with the metal chassis feel very surface-y to me
    11-20-2014 05:51 PM
  3. Trill Gates's Avatar
    IDK guys, I would argue that the 930/Icon is about as close to resembling a surface phone as can be. Maybe not exactly a surface phone, and certainly not branded as such, but the angular lines mixed with the metal chassis feel very surface-y to me
    Well as an Icon owner I gotta disagree, there's no doubt that the Icon/930 is one solidly built piece of hardware but at the time it was engineered Nokia was still its own company separate from Microsoft. From the plastic to the slightly bulging back (for the Qi) the Icon doesn't scream "Surface" to me. I'd picture a Surface phone to be solid, smooth, brushed VaporMG in either Silver or Black with a subtle Windows logo on the back. It definitely would have to be a solid VaporMg to truly deserve the "Surface" moniker IMHO.
    11-21-2014 01:08 AM
  4. realwarder's Avatar
    The images the other day of a new front panel display looked very Surface like. Of course they could have been complete fakes, but I like the idea.
    11-21-2014 01:36 AM
  5. Trill Gates's Avatar
    The images the other day of a new front panel display looked very Surface like. Of course they could have been complete fakes, but I like the idea.
    Fingers crossed, they need a headline grabbing flagship phone to launch the new Windows 10 OS with. The combination of the Surface Mini scrapping and the lack of a Lumia flagship at least leaves the hopes of a Surface phone alive.
    11-21-2014 04:05 PM
  6. spaulagain's Avatar
    I think keeping the two names separate is better though. A Surface is a tablet, a Lumia is a phone. The minute you cross that with a Surface phone you create confusion. Something MS does not need more of right now.

    I think the main reason we see no flagship right now is they are saving it for Windows 10 where they can really cater the hardware to the latest and greatest features of the OS.

    I'm due for a new phone and would love to have a new one now, but I'm more than happy to wait for a W10 flagship.
    negative1ne likes this.
    11-21-2014 04:25 PM
  7. someone2639's Avatar
    A surface phone would be great as described, except with changing colors. Not with shells, but the power of technology!
    11-21-2014 04:38 PM
  8. Trill Gates's Avatar
    I think keeping the two names separate is better though. A Surface is a tablet, a Lumia is a phone. The minute you cross that with a Surface phone you create confusion. Something MS does not need more of right now.

    I think the main reason we see no flagship right now is they are saving it for Windows 10 where they can really cater the hardware to the latest and greatest features of the OS.

    I'm due for a new phone and would love to have a new one now, but I'm more than happy to wait for a W10 flagship.
    I'd have to disagree with the confusion part as not only Apple but all the major Android OEM's name their flagship phones and tablets the same. For example Samsung tablets have the Galaxy name and Sony tablets use the Xperia name. Alot of customers like familiarity which means casual iPhone users are likely to buy an iPad and casual Galaxy users are likely to buy a Galaxy tablet. What Microsoft is doing makes less sense, hence the reason they're the only ones using the separated naming scheme model. A casual SP3 user who isn't a Windows enthusiast isn't going to associate Lumia with their tablet, that's just the reality. Hence the reason so many Surface owners don't adopt into Microsoft's product mix and remain on iOS or Android despite having decided to buy a Surface product. A Surface flagship phone would better be able to ride the momentum created by the SP3. The Surface name already has some credibility in enterprise, "Lumia" just doesn't.
    paulxxwall likes this.
    11-21-2014 04:47 PM
  9. Trill Gates's Avatar
    Microsoft needs Lumia to take on the developing markets and compete solely with low-mid range Androids and older iPhones. We need Surface to fight for ground in enterprise and the flagship dominated US market. I already am starting to see many SP3's around my college campus, and hear students debating about whether to get a Macbook or Surface Pro. Not only is Surface already been established as a solid premium hardware brand but it's already capturing mindshare among educated young adults. As compared to my "Lumia Icon" people often ask me "what type of Android is that?" My Surface Pro 3 on the other hand never gets mistaken for anything else, especially when im using the keyboard. We need a Surface phone in the US, the Lumia line just hasn't shown any sign of being able to establish itself the way the SP3 is.
    11-21-2014 04:59 PM
  10. spaulagain's Avatar
    I'd have to disagree with the confusion part as not only Apple but all the major Android OEM's name their flagship phones and tablets the same. For example Samsung tablets have the Galaxy name and Sony tablets use the Xperia name. Alot of customers like familiarity which means casual iPhone users are likely to buy an iPad and casual Galaxy users are likely to buy a Galaxy tablet. What Microsoft is doing makes less sense, hence the reason they're the only ones using the separated naming scheme model. A casual SP3 user who isn't a Windows enthusiast isn't going to associate Lumia with their tablet, that's just the reality. Hence the reason so many Surface owners don't adopt into Microsoft's product mix and remain on iOS or Android despite having decided to buy a Surface product. A Surface flagship phone would better be able to ride the momentum created by the SP3. The Surface name already has some credibility in enterprise, "Lumia" just doesn't.
    iPhone and iPad are not the same name. They just use the same naming convention.

    And I would not use Samsung or any Android OEM as a model for naming products. Samsung alone has horrible names for all their products. With arbitrary numbering and sequence methods. The Galaxy phone is the only one that that has established a recognizable and standard naming convention.

    At least Lumias have a mostly logical versioning method.
    11-21-2014 05:04 PM
  11. paulxxwall's Avatar
    iPhone and iPad are not the same name. They just use the same naming convention.

    And I would not use Samsung or any Android OEM as a model for naming products. Samsung alone has horrible names for all their products. With arbitrary numbering and sequence methods. The Galaxy phone is the only one that that has established a recognizable and standard naming convention.

    At least Lumias have a mostly logical versioning method.
    What ever the names are.......they sell more than lumias. So it has to work....apparently!
    Trill Gates likes this.
    11-21-2014 05:08 PM
  12. spaulagain's Avatar
    What ever the names are.......they sell more than lumias. So it has to work....apparently!
    The name is not what sells those phones. It's apps, Android, cost, availability, and carriers pushing them like hotcakes.

    I bet your average Android owner has no idea what the name of their phone is. Most non-hardcore users I've met have no idea.
    11-21-2014 05:10 PM
  13. Loco5150's Avatar
    Something like this wouldnt help sales at all. Most likely it would only confuse average people more, if that's even possible, because WP brand knowledge is very low compared to Samsung and iPhone.
    Last edited by Loco5150; 11-22-2014 at 01:26 AM.
    spaulagain likes this.
    11-21-2014 05:15 PM
  14. Trill Gates's Avatar
    iPhone and iPad are not the same name. They just use the same naming convention.

    And I would not use Samsung or any Android OEM as a model for naming products. Samsung alone has horrible names for all their products. With arbitrary numbering and sequence methods. The Galaxy phone is the only one that that has established a recognizable and standard naming convention.

    At least Lumias have a mostly logical versioning method.
    That is the same, the lower case i before a product name is Apple's trademark. Apple used the massive amount of momentum generated by the iPod, to name and launch the iPhone (to huge success), then again used the lower case i to brand the iPad (again with much success). Its such a good product identifier that they even use it for their services and apps, iTunes, iMessage and iCloud. There's no confusion anything with the lower case i is now instantly associated with Apple.

    Not only does Samsung employ this tactic with Galaxy, but Google has done the same with "Nexus" phones and tablets, the proof is in the pudding, Apple and Android customers aren't in any way confused by names. If anyone is confused about anything it's about all these different Microsoft brand names, and yes I bet 9/10 Galaxy owners would know exactly what model of phone they have. Pardon the clich but less really is more sometimes.
    Last edited by Trill Gates; 11-21-2014 at 05:49 PM.
    11-21-2014 05:38 PM
  15. Trill Gates's Avatar
    The name is not what sells those phones. It's apps, Android, cost, availability, and carriers pushing them like hotcakes.

    I bet your average Android owner has no idea what the name of their phone is. Most non-hardcore users I've met have no idea.
    So many people have the apps issue backwards, apps do NOT come before users. Apple and Android have so many Apps flying into their stores because they have so many people leaving actual stores with iPhones and Android devices. We cannot convince devs to come to WP with the promise of future users. It just doesn't work that way.
    Availability, that's on Microsoft.
    Carriers pushing other phones. Well if I was a salesman working on commission I'd too be selling the brand spanking new iPhone and Android phones, Microsoft isn't giving the flagship US market anything to compete with the newest iPhones and Androids.
    11-21-2014 05:45 PM
  16. spaulagain's Avatar
    So many people have the apps issue backwards, apps do NOT come before users. Apple and Android have so many Apps flying into their stores because they have so many people leaving actual stores with iPhones and Android devices. We cannot convince devs to come to WP with the promise of future users. It just doesn't work that way.
    Availability, that's on Microsoft.
    Carriers pushing other phones. Well if I was a salesman working on commission I'd too be selling the brand spanking new iPhone and Android phones, Microsoft isn't giving the flagship US market anything to compete with the newest iPhones and Androids.
    Where did I say apps come before users? Android and iOS came before the app market even existed for the smartphone industry. Android and iPhone gained market share from the other means as described, but now that the user base has fermented, the app availability is a key decision factor for people staying with the platforms or new users joining the platform.

    Availability is an issue for OEMs. Which now include Microsoft. I think you'll see availability issues fade in 2015 as MS has a little more girth to throw around than Nokia did when it comes to carriers.
    11-21-2014 06:04 PM
  17. spaulagain's Avatar
    That is the same, the lower case i before a product name is Apple's trademark. Apple used the massive amount of momentum generated by the iPod, to name and launch the iPhone (to huge success), then again used the lower case i to brand the iPad (again with much success). Its such a good product identifier that they even use it for their services and apps, iTunes, iMessage and iCloud. There's no confusion anything with the lower case i is now instantly associated with Apple.

    Not only does Samsung employ this tactic with Galaxy, but Google has done the same with "Nexus" phones and tablets, the proof is in the pudding, Apple and Android customers aren't in any way confused by names. If anyone is confused about anything it's about all these different Microsoft brand names, and yes I bet 9/10 Galaxy owners would know exactly what model of phone they have. Pardon the clich but less really is more sometimes.
    Again, its not the same. It's the same nomenclature, not the same name.

    Microsoft could do the same by creating XTablet and XPhone to go along with Xbox. But that is not the same as a Surface Phone and a Surface. No one says "Surface Tablet." They say Surface. And Surface is too long a word to be used as prefix nomenclature.

    I'm not completely against a Surface Phone, I just don't think it will be of any added benefit. The Lumia name has a good reputation, and pretty well known at least internationally. And segmenting Surface Phone for enterprise is just silly. We've already learned over the past 5 years that there is no definitive line between enterprises and consumers. So trying to create a product line based on that premise is foolish.

    It's much easier to remember a Surface is a tablet, a Lumia is a phone then trying to use that name to define some arbitrary line in "levels" of a products quality, etc.
    11-21-2014 06:11 PM
  18. Trill Gates's Avatar
    Again, its not the same. It's the same nomenclature, not the same name.

    Microsoft could do the same by creating XTablet and XPhone to go along with Xbox. But that is not the same as a Surface Phone and a Surface. No one says "Surface Tablet." They say Surface. And Surface is too long a word to be used as prefix nomenclature.

    I'm not completely against a Surface Phone, I just don't think it will be of any added benefit. The Lumia name has a good reputation, and pretty well known at least internationally. And segmenting Surface Phone for enterprise is just silly. We've already learned over the past 5 years that there is no definitive line between enterprises and consumers. So trying to create a product line based on that premise is foolish.

    It's much easier to remember a Surface is a tablet, a Lumia is a phone then trying to use that name to define some arbitrary line in "levels" of a products quality, etc.
    The lower case i branding is entirely an Apple identifier, and is arguably the best branding scheme in tech history because it's simple and instantly identifiable with Apple. If we walked up to random people in public and quizzed them on who makes the Surface Pro 3 and Lumia *insert number* how many would correctly answer Microsoft? On the other we could literally make up a product that's fictional and use the lower case i and I guarantee 99% would guess Apple.
    "There's an upcoming smart TV called the iTele, made by who?" They'd all guess Apple because Apple has successfully created a universal Apple product trademark. Microsoft for as much as I love their products is just terrible at branding, hence the numerous rebrands all their product and service lines seem to get. You think Apple is ever going to stop using the lower case i?
    11-21-2014 06:33 PM
  19. spaulagain's Avatar
    The lower case i branding is entirely an Apple identifier, and is arguably the best branding scheme in tech history because it's simple and instantly identifiable with Apple. If we walked up to random people in public and quizzed them on who makes the Surface Pro 3 and Lumia *insert number* how many would correctly answer Microsoft? On the other we could literally make up a product that's fictional and use the lower case i and I guarantee 99% would guess Apple.
    "There's an upcoming smart TV called the iTele, made by who?" They'd all guess Apple because Apple has successfully created a universal Apple product trademark. Microsoft for as much as I love their products is just terrible at branding, hence the numerous rebrands all their product and service lines seem to get. You think Apple is ever going to stop using the lower case i?
    I 100% agree, that's what I was saying. They use the same naming convention, not the same name.

    That being said, Apple has stopped using the "i" with the "Apple Watch"

    Which is why so many people were like "WTF?"
    11-21-2014 06:37 PM
  20. Trill Gates's Avatar
    Where did I say apps come before users? Android and iOS came before the app market even existed for the smartphone industry. Android and iPhone gained market share from the other means as described, but now that the user base has fermented, the app availability is a key decision factor for people staying with the platforms or new users joining the platform.

    Availability is an issue for OEMs. Which now include Microsoft. I think you'll see availability issues fade in 2015 as MS has a little more girth to throw around than Nokia did when it comes to carriers.
    More people are concerned about having to learn how to properly use an entire new OS than they are apps, my roommate who works at ATT just outside a college campus says the thing so many people are concerned(or intimidated) about phones is how to use them. Specifically less tech savvy people over 30, if they've grown to iOS then it's going to be much less likely they'll want an Android or Surface tablet over an iPad with an identical OS and interface. Brand loyalty and more importantly familiarity play a huge role in horizontal movement of your users in your ecosystem. The American public at large doesn't know the Lumia name which requires MS to run an entirely separate product line marketing campaign to educate consumers. Whereas the Surface is finally gaining credibility and critical acclaim and viewed as a quality premium competitor to Apple hardware. No current Windows Phone has come remotely as close to position itself against Apple's flagships. The other problem with a Lumia flagship is that the brand name is also used on cheap 500 series phones, which hurts the brand's reputation in the premium market. It would be like Fiat using the Ferrari logo and brand name on cheap hatchbacks. It's never a good idea to name premium and budget products under the same name.
    satrus08 likes this.
    11-21-2014 06:48 PM
  21. Trill Gates's Avatar
    I 100% agree, that's what I was saying. They use the same naming convention, not the same name.

    That being said, Apple has stopped using the "i" with the "Apple Watch"

    Which is why so many people were like "WTF?"
    The lower case i is the branding of Apple's mega successful product mix, "Pod" "Phone" "Pad" etc are subset product lines under the universal i moniker. The brand name is the lowercase i, iPhone is NOT a brand it's just an Apple PRODUCT LINE name.
    11-21-2014 06:57 PM
  22. spaulagain's Avatar
    The lower case i is the branding of Apple's mega successful product mix, "Pod" "Phone" "Pad" etc are subset product lines under the universal i moniker. The brand name is the lowercase i, iPhone is NOT a brand it's just an Apple PRODUCT LINE name.
    Tell me more Einstein. I'm fully aware that's what the i is. All I'm saying is the a Surface is a Product Line to put it in your terms, and is not a good solution for a brand term used across multiple devices.

    I could maybe see it used as so...

    Surface Pro
    Surface Mini
    Surface Phone

    But I think that's a bit wordy. Especially if you add version numbers in that. And phones are notorious for having many variations, so how many Surface Phones would you have?

    I think they're better off using Lumia + Version for phones. And Surface + Version for tablets. Much simpler. People are already used to Lumia and Surface as is, let's not muddy the waters more.
    11-21-2014 10:42 PM
  23. Yazen's Avatar
    How Intel plans to break into smartphones | PCWorld

    Nokia Devices + Intel + W10 = Surface Phone?
    11-21-2014 11:00 PM
  24. LumiaWorld's Avatar
    A Surface branded phone or any high end phone with a built in stylus that works on the SP3 and phone would be too good to be true. Just the sense to brand their phones Surface instead of Lumia shows their marketing failure in itself. It's proven time and time again that no one cares about Lumia. I've never heard anyone reference WP as a Lumia. I'd never call my phone a Lumia. People know them as WP or 920 or 1520. Lumia could be omitted forever and no one would care. It just doesn't resonate with the world, not just from my perspective, but everyone I know too. Even in talking to staff at stores and carriers, they omit Lumia in reference. It's just terrible.

    Microsoft just doesn't have the talent or marketing capability to make something that awesome, not even in name.
    I disagree. The Lumia brand is well known especially in countries where Nokia is popular.
    11-21-2014 11:01 PM
  25. Yazen's Avatar
    You mean Nokia Lumina?? lol
    Where did the n come from I wonder ...
    11-21-2014 11:24 PM
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