01-05-2015 06:47 PM
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  1. Conan143's Avatar
    Every time I see this type of thread I smack my head against the nearest wall...

    It would be very logical for MS to look at the possibility of porting android apps, however the technical drawbacks would send this one packing. You would need to run an emulator of some kind to interpret Java which will be an expensive resource that the low-end phones would crawl.

    I'm for Rudy's suggestion (rudyhuyn comments on Microsoft hones its plans to try to close the app gap) that Android apps are written using Visual Studio which would then be able to port to both Android and Windows (being Universal app).

    MS could use their 'marketing' budget to help offset the costs of the development for the more major apps, or like the FB app MS would create it using FB's api's. In theory Snapchat could offer the same to MS if they so wished.

    I think MS need to kill off this rumour once and for all, as I find it damaging of the Windows Phone brand.

    WinPhone is starting to show in the main stream, watch a show nowadays and NOT see a windows phone. Last night I was watching Scorpion and they were prominently showing the Surface and I believe a 1020.

    MS just need to hold their nerve, and bring new game changing stuff in Win10.

    G.
    Exactly my thought :)
    gMaesterUK and DavidinCT like this.
    12-31-2014 08:36 AM
  2. DavidinCT's Avatar
    ok, on the fence with this one. I guess I would be OK with it, as long as WP apps cant run on Android.

    No question, there is a app gap, there is about 3-4 apps that would CLOSE the gap for me but, after pestering companies, it does not look like it's happening any time soon. This would no question fix this problem.

    Gamers, to think...There are some EPIC games for Android that WP owners could just dream of, yea, no Xbox live but, you can play epic games as well ? I say go for it !

    As long as we don't get the crappy laggy stuff from Android, yea, I am all for it right now.
    12-31-2014 09:02 AM
  3. Mahdi Ghiasi's Avatar
    They can add the ability to run android apps hidden inside Windows 10, then talk with just that popular Android games that are missing in Windows (Phone) Store and add those to Windows Store.

    This way, no one would even know that those games are actually an Android app, and developers won't lose interest in Universal Apps concept.

    BTW, best thing is what Rudy Huyn said in twitter: Doing the opposite. allowing Windows Universal apps to be installed on Android.
    12-31-2014 09:13 AM
  4. EBUK's Avatar
    That's what SDK's are for.
    I've only toyed briefly with programming. But are you saying that I could write an app to run on Windows phone with no consideration to how it would look/feel on Android or iOS, and the SDK would magically produce apps for those platforms that work the same as on Windows Phone?

    That would be amazing.

    (Sorry, but I really am ignorant of such things!)
    12-31-2014 09:33 AM
  5. metalchick719's Avatar
    Horrible, horrible, horrible idea. If by some chance it does come to fruition, it's back to iPhone I go. I want no part of Android apps on my phone. Hell, I have an HTC One M7 that I've used mostly as a tablet and I barely even use it. Apps run immeasurably better on Windows Phone and iPhone. Too much lag on Android, plus there's always the privacy issues and possible malware threats. Having Android apps invade Windows Phone would completely kill the platform. Why can't Microsoft just focus on *Windows Phone* and developing more *Windows Phone* apps?
    tooly26 and psudotechzealot like this.
    12-31-2014 09:54 AM
  6. Stefan Holder's Avatar
    I really don't understand the controversy.

    From the article earlier today: "In the meantime, Microsoft is sticking with Plan A, the Universal app program..."

    It's obvious that the only way that they would put Android apps on Windows is if they literally had to. They want people to build Windows apps, but if they can't get developers to do that, then what are they suppose to do?

    I mean, really, Armchair CEOs, tell me what would you do if no matter what you did, developers wouldn't write Windows apps?

    Personally, I'm pretty sure they won't need a Plan B, since Plan A will probably work out.

    You're missing a point here.. It's not just about them considering supporting android apps on WP as Plan B. Plan B should be secret.. A default fall back plan if all else fails. A closely guarded move that only those in high positions should know ONLY. The rest of the folks should be charging on with Plan A treating it as the only thing that matters. Who's to say with this news of a possibility of android apps support on WP that devs will just wait on purpose to ensure Plan A fails? Knowing that they wont have to write any native version of their apps to WP. Now more than ever devs are not gonna bother.

    A move as drastic as this, should have been guarded fiercely because of the potential immediate damage it can do to the viability of the platform to have its own unique identity.

    I maintain that even considering this move is a slap in the face to all purists and devs out there fighting to build this platform. That is concession. Admitting defeat. And lastly, if I had to choose between a device emulating android apps and an actual android device, guess which one ill go with?

    Yall can proceed.
    12-31-2014 11:16 AM
  7. Jas00555's Avatar
    You're missing a point here.. It's not just about them considering supporting android apps on WP as Plan B. Plan B should be secret.. A default fall back plan if all else fails. A closely guarded move that only those in high positions should know ONLY. The rest of the folks should be charging on with Plan A treating it as the only thing that matters. Who's to say with this news of a possibility of android apps support on WP that devs will just wait on purpose to ensure Plan A fails? Knowing that they wont have to write any native version of their apps to WP. Now more than ever devs are not gonna bother.

    A move as drastic as this, should have been guarded fiercely because of the potential immediate damage it can do to the viability of the platform to have its own unique identity.

    I maintain that even considering this move is a slap in the face to all purists and devs out there fighting to build this platform. That is concession. Admitting defeat. And lastly, if I had to choose between a device emulating android apps and an actual android device, guess which one ill go with?

    Yall can proceed.
    When has ANYONE from Microsoft commented on this aside from "inside sources"? This isn't like a thing that everyone is talking about now. If this is a possibility at all, they would need to work on it ASAP since the technical capabilities of putting a Java emulator on top of NT would be quite the undertaking. They don't want to be Blackberry and have a gimped runtime out of the gate.
    Stefan Holder likes this.
    12-31-2014 11:27 AM
  8. Jas00555's Avatar
    *Sits in Armchair CEO*

    First of all, I'd start showing more confidence within my own OS and ecosystem by showing either Priority by releasing the apps FIRST....and not make my users wait for months or even a year or so for the same app OR i'd release them all at the same time or within the same time frame with feature parity.

    Secondly, i'd realize that I have a great gold mine of a feature like Xbox Live and stop making it so difficult for those who WANT to actually develop for my platform and bring games to my users who want things like achievements.

    Thirdly, I would not wait an entire year before releasing a phone.....if necessary, I'd simply release a mildly upgraded Lumia 1525 for Carriers like T-Mobile, Sprint and Verizon OR Bring the Icon to the other carriers. Or even bring high end stuff to Canada....If I see people are clamoring, I am not going to expect my users to wait a year because that's a risk that could very well blow up in my face.

    Fourth, I'd stop releasing Low end after Low end device with little to no differentiation between the two. If I was going to bring out a 535 later...then why even waste time with a 530. Just make the actual 630-635 the 530 and bring out the 535 as the 630/635.

    Instead, let's confuse users....and if rumors pan out, let's confuse em even more by adding MORE options like a Lumia 430.

    OR hey...let's release a phone like the 830 but price it too high for what it offers and gimp it on the FFC but let's throw that amazing FFC into the 730/735 and yet gimp it on the back camera. Why not simply merge the two into the perfect Mid range/selfie phone...there's little differentiation between the two.

    Fifth, I'd realize that while my marketshare is not high and at times slipping, that perhaps annoying my loyal users by degrading the experience(I.e. Xbox Music) and then saying wait till Windows 10 is not the way to go about retaining loyalty.

    Or releasing that despite breaking things like Hubs from the OS, it actually hasn't really helped the APPgate that much. I'd realize that simply following trends and trying to be like Google/Android is not the way to go about it because I am only alienating my userbase by ignoring their wants....They don't want yet another low end or midrange. They want a Lumia flagship...

    I'd realize that I need to stop following trends because the thing about trends is...THEY CHANGE instantly....and I'd adapt to trends while using them to my advantage and making my experience unique. With all the money that Microsoft throws around, enter into a contractual agreement with these developers or get Rudy to actually make the apps. If they don't want to make it, then at least try and pay them for access. You may not be able to do it for every app but do it for the big apps...6snap(Snapchat), 6sec(Vine), 6tag(Instagram/FB), 6tin(Tinder). Pay them for access if they don't want to do it themselves.

    Sixth, market my devices.......and actually showcase them and make creative ads....not some random commercial. More Commercials like the Lumia 1020 commercials.

    That's 6 things I'd do :) And Luckily for me, I actually do have a very tiny voice within Microsoft and I use it daily :D
    Fine, you would fix the hardware lineup, but how does that get devs to start making apps? Sure, what you're suggesting will get them more sales, but not enough to attract developers. If I recall correctly, you have said multiple times that the biggest problem is the lack of apps. If, hypothetically, Microsoft does what you're suggesting and there's still an app gap, what are they suppose to do?
    Stefan Holder likes this.
    12-31-2014 11:30 AM
  9. gMaesterUK's Avatar
    I've only toyed briefly with programming. But are you saying that I could write an app to run on Windows phone with no consideration to how it would look/feel on Android or iOS, and the SDK would magically produce apps for those platforms that work the same as on Windows Phone?

    That would be amazing.

    (Sorry, but I really am ignorant of such things!)
    Sorry I meant the SDK's helped with the interfacing of the OS API's, however the design itself would require customising for each OS. If you're already customising for two OS's, it wouldn't be that much of a hardship to add a third...

    Though Visual Studio (and other good IDE's) do help with the porting, so you can use a common language with tweaking for each OS.

    G.
    12-31-2014 11:40 AM
  10. Stefan Holder's Avatar
    When has ANYONE from Microsoft commented on this aside from "inside sources"? This isn't like a thing that everyone is working on now. If this is a possibility at all, they would need to work on it ASAP since the technical capabilities of putting a Java emulator on top of NT would be quite the undertaking. They don't want to be Blackberry and have a gimped runtime out of the gate.

    But this isn't the first time this information was in the public domain. Of course Microsoft wouldn't announce something like this through official channels till they've made up their mind. But the mere thought that it is actually being considered by Microsoft is disheartening. And the grievance of loyalists is that this should not even be an option. But alas, thinking business wise, a decision like this should not be allowed to leak so easily. And for those that think that companies don't purposefully leak their own info to gauge market reactions, should not be that naive. Who's to say that MS themselves didn't sanction these so called leaks to do just that? Anyways, despite that conspiracy...lol.. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that support for Android apps will effectively kill the platform.
    12-31-2014 11:41 AM
  11. pericle's Avatar
    I am not sure why people are so against Android Apps on Windows Phone.
    In an ideal world all the apps for Windows Phone would be written natively. Unfortunately that is not the case now, and an app gap does exist and is potentially hampering usage of Windows Phone.

    Microsoft won't be supporting Windows Phone indefinitely. If even after Windows 10, the market share is at 3% you can be certain they will pull the plug.

    Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that with just advertising and the release of Windows 10, the fortunes are going to change immediately. Something drastic has to be done and this seems to be the only solution to remove the biggest barrier for people to adopt Windows Phone, it may not be ideal but seems to be the only option at the moment.
    12-31-2014 11:45 AM
  12. Jas00555's Avatar
    But this isn't the first time this information was in the public domain. Of course Microsoft wouldn't announce something like this through official channels till they've made up their mind. But the mere thought that it is actually being considered by Microsoft is disheartening. And the grievance of loyalists is that this should not even be an option. But alas, thinking business wise, a decision like this should not be allowed to leak so easily. And for those that think that companies don't purposefully leak their own info to gauge market reactions, should not be that naive. Who's to say that MS themselves didn't sanction these so called leaks to do just that? Anyways, despite that conspiracy...lol.. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that support for Android apps will effectively kill the platform.
    I get what you're saying, but its pretty tough to start on this type of project (which they have to if they want it to work out of the gate) and keep it from one of the various sources that leak info.
    12-31-2014 11:55 AM
  13. jfdavis17's Avatar
    Most apps I use look and run pretty much the same on Windows phone as they do on Android or Apple. Almost all games have the same interface and run as well on one as the other from what I can see. Windows Phone appeal to me is the UI, Cortana, and the syncing of One Drive. I don't see android apps having any negative effect on these points. Microsoft allows Java applications to run on Windows PC. I don't see this as any different, and that hasn't hurt Windows PC sales any.
    12-31-2014 12:01 PM
  14. poit57's Avatar
    Most apps I use look and run pretty much the same on Windows phone as they do on Android or Apple. Almost all games have the same interface and run as well on one as the other from what I can see. Windows Phone appeal to me is the UI, Cortana, and the syncing of One Drive. I don't see android apps having any negative effect on these points. Microsoft allows Java applications to run on Windows PC. I don't see this as any different, and that hasn't hurt Windows PC sales any.
    This is why I found it strange that this caused a lot of users saying they would abandon WP if Android apps were allowed. My understanding is that this would give the Android developers an opportunity to upload their apps to the Windows Store. Maybe I read these rumors the wrong way, but I never pictured that a Windows phone would suddenly have open access to install any and everything from the Android marketplace (or whatever they call it now).

    As I see it, if Windows did open the OS to be able to run Android apps, the apps should still be held to a standard of security and stability just like current Windows Phone apps are.
    12-31-2014 01:43 PM
  15. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Android does not run as well from my own perspective. It is known that android has issues with slowness and hence why the hardware is way over powered. It is by design. The new lollipop helps a bit with app loading by compiling at install instead of at runtime. Windows and iOS run way better. Now, that's not the issue at hand anyways. Your comparison to PC makes no sense as it was never meant to be a closed eco system It thrives because anyone was able to make apps/games without any approval process or worrying about another entity taking a cut of their money. A PC is meant to run everything. It always will be. I think Microsoft will always allow that but on top of that it's trying to create an actual eco system where if you use it you will have certain advantages like safe approved apps, support on all your devices and cool features at the expense of being locked into them. And of course with this model Microsoft can offer the operating system for free because they make money off the apps. They also have some pretty tight security as was shown in a recent security conference. Allowing android apps to run could expose security holes. It will also likely give companies 0 reason to invest in a windows platform team. Microsoft wants all platforms to remain successful that way it can continue to make money off their own apps on other platforms and make money off their own platform as well. It's unlikely they will let android apps run. Unless they work on a tool to let developers quickly port their android apps over. Then the developers can learn the system better and start adding more features. It's likely that when they say android apps they are probably doing something to simply allow apps like Google Maps or gmail to be able to run. Not every app out there. This is because they really have no choice if google hates them that much. That or google will finally give in.

    Anyways, Microsoft will penetrate the phone market. They are just going at it slowly so they can do it right. They are the only company right now that is listening to their users. This is the main difference in what will let them survive. They are changing things because of their users. The internet allows everyone to communicate and Microsoft realizes this and takes it seriously. This kind of stuff doesn't happen overnight. Microsoft does not want to develop a bad reputation early on by having a rushed platform that blue screens your phone. They are doing it right.

    Windows 10 will do well. It's part of why i'm waiting before updating my phone. OEMs will jump on it and new hardware will come out. Out of all the platforms I honestly feel this one has the most potential. I use them all and honestly love what they have done with 8.1.1. Yes, it's still not everything I want but it's also not their final product that they want to introduce to the world.
    12-31-2014 01:43 PM
  16. fdalbor's Avatar
    Didn't we just go through this a few months ago? If the plan is to unify all the devices under one OS then this will not and cannot happen. I dont see any future in a desktop OS using Android. It would be like starting over for enterprise customers. It would mean the death of Microsoft. But that is just my opinion.
    12-31-2014 02:35 PM
  17. EMINENT 1's Avatar
    I wish this rumor would die. Universal is the future or everything they've worked for the past 3 yrs. was for nothing.
    12-31-2014 02:46 PM
  18. Jas00555's Avatar
    I wish this rumor would die. Universal is the future or everything they've worked for the past 3 yrs. was for nothing.
    I don't think you understand the point of the rumor. This isn't what Microsoft plans to do, its what they feel they have to do if Universal apps don't work.
    12-31-2014 03:34 PM
  19. CSJr1's Avatar
    I get what you're saying, but its pretty tough to start on this type of project (which they have to if they want it to work out of the gate) and keep it from one of the various sources that leak info.
    IMHO, this type of 'project' shouldn't have been started in the first place. Not even for a proof of concept. Because all the time that went into this project could have been used making WP Core improvements, WP10, or better yet, proof-of-concepts of never before seen wizBangs for WP. In software development, you never get your time back.
    Stefan Holder likes this.
    12-31-2014 04:27 PM
  20. Jas00555's Avatar
    IMHO, this type of 'project' shouldn't have been started in the first place. Not even for a proof of concept. Because all the time that went into this project could have been used making WP Core improvements, WP10, or better yet, proof-of-concepts of never before seen wizBangs for WP. In software development, you never get your time back.
    That's not how software development works. The people working on this likely have a lot of experience with Java and the Android runtime and don't contribute much to the WP team. If this is a possibility, Microsoft needs to start this undertaking ASAP so they won't have a gimped version out of the gate, similar to how Blackberry did their fork.
    12-31-2014 04:30 PM
  21. T1Cybernetic's Avatar
    I wonder how many of the android apps people use are created on windows PC's :D
    Guytronic likes this.
    12-31-2014 05:24 PM
  22. stephen_az's Avatar
    I really don't understand the controversy.

    From the article earlier today: "In the meantime, Microsoft is sticking with Plan A, the Universal app program..."

    It's obvious that the only way that they would put Android apps on Windows is if they literally had to. They want people to build Windows apps, but if they can't get developers to do that, then what are they suppose to do?

    I mean, really, Armchair CEOs, tell me what would you do if no matter what you did, developers wouldn't write Windows apps?

    Personally, I'm pretty sure they won't need a Plan B, since Plan A will probably work out.
    Thanks for adding some rational discussion to the mix. Personally, I find the "I'm leaving if they do X posts" to be incredibly silly. So people are going to leave if they add a feature they do not have to use? People are very fortunate they are only armchair CEOs. Living and succeeding in the real world requires a silly little thing called pragmatism not just "vision.". Without a market, vision and 50 cents will not even get you a cup of coffee.
    12-31-2014 05:27 PM
  23. S640's Avatar
    Thanks for adding some rational discussion to the mix. Personally, I find the "I'm leaving if they do X posts" to be incredibly silly. So people are going to leave if they add a feature they do not have to use? People are very fortunate they are only armchair CEOs. Living and succeeding in the real world requires a silly little thing called pragmatism not just "vision.". Without a market, vision and 50 cents will not even get you a cup of coffee.
    Of course you completely ignore the obvious concerns with running an Android emulator on top of Win10 on a bunch of low end phones, or the fact that without any real incentive to develop for WP if Android apps can be used that there's be no reason for devs to make WP apps. It's easy to call people silly when you simply ignore obvious truths.
    metalchick719 likes this.
    12-31-2014 05:32 PM
  24. Jas00555's Avatar
    Of course you completely ignore the obvious concerns with running an Android emulator on top of Win10 on a bunch of low end phones,
    Who said that they'd put this on low end phones? The app gap is much more prevalent for high-end users than it is for low end users. Who's to say that they won't make it so you have to have at least 1GB of RAM?
    12-31-2014 05:38 PM
  25. stephen_az's Avatar
    *Sits in Armchair CEO*

    First of all, I'd start showing more confidence within my own OS and ecosystem by showing either Priority by releasing the apps FIRST....and not make my users wait for months or even a year or so for the same app OR i'd release them all at the same time or within the same time frame with feature parity.

    Secondly, i'd realize that I have a great gold mine of a feature like Xbox Live and stop making it so difficult for those who WANT to actually develop for my platform and bring games to my users who want things like achievements.

    Thirdly, I would not wait an entire year before releasing a phone.....if necessary, I'd simply release a mildly upgraded Lumia 1525 for Carriers like T-Mobile, Sprint and Verizon OR Bring the Icon to the other carriers. Or even bring high end stuff to Canada....If I see people are clamoring, I am not going to expect my users to wait a year because that's a risk that could very well blow up in my face.

    Fourth, I'd stop releasing Low end after Low end device with little to no differentiation between the two. If I was going to bring out a 535 later...then why even waste time with a 530. Just make the actual 630-635 the 530 and bring out the 535 as the 630/635.

    Instead, let's confuse users....and if rumors pan out, let's confuse em even more by adding MORE options like a Lumia 430.

    OR hey...let's release a phone like the 830 but price it too high for what it offers and gimp it on the FFC but let's throw that amazing FFC into the 730/735 and yet gimp it on the back camera. Why not simply merge the two into the perfect Mid range/selfie phone...there's little differentiation between the two.

    Fifth, I'd realize that while my marketshare is not high and at times slipping, that perhaps annoying my loyal users by degrading the experience(I.e. Xbox Music) and then saying wait till Windows 10 is not the way to go about retaining loyalty.

    Or releasing that despite breaking things like Hubs from the OS, it actually hasn't really helped the APPgate that much. I'd realize that simply following trends and trying to be like Google/Android is not the way to go about it because I am only alienating my userbase by ignoring their wants....They don't want yet another low end or midrange. They want a Lumia flagship...

    I'd realize that I need to stop following trends because the thing about trends is...THEY CHANGE instantly....and I'd adapt to trends while using them to my advantage and making my experience unique. With all the money that Microsoft throws around, enter into a contractual agreement with these developers or get Rudy to actually make the apps. If they don't want to make it, then at least try and pay them for access. You may not be able to do it for every app but do it for the big apps...6snap(Snapchat), 6sec(Vine), 6tag(Instagram/FB), 6tin(Tinder). Pay them for access if they don't want to do it themselves.

    Sixth, market my devices.......and actually showcase them and make creative ads....not some random commercial. More Commercials like the Lumia 1020 commercials.

    That's 6 things I'd do :) And Luckily for me, I actually do have a very tiny voice within Microsoft and I use it daily :D
    I would hope yours is a tiny voice. Have you noticed those low end devices actually sell? Have you also noticed the high end devices do not? Perhaps you might want to do the math. As for statements such as bring the Icon to other carriers, are you aware VZW does not use the same network technology as the other carriers? Alternatively, perhaps you might want to consider that the carriers have not wanted the supposed flagships a handful of people around here think are vital and Microsoft is cutting the deals it needs to make to get them anyplace. They are also getting new buyers on board with entry level devices.

    What a horrible decision - let's get new users when we can instead sit on unsold high end stuff (and our pride at having the best stuff no one wants). Of course they can release some high end device on all carriers to compete with Samsung and Apple; say pretty please and get the carriers to all accept it; create some clever ads; and then release a new OS creating the perception the device is obsolete. Now that will get the market share to grow.

    I would suggest people would do well to consider old clichs about forests and trees. Perspective can be a wonderful thing....
    12-31-2014 05:42 PM
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