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04-03-2015 08:41 AM
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  1. a5cent's Avatar
    Nah.. Instead get rid of hamburgers in the PC version and put pivots there. Isn't it better? :D
    Neither is better. Both have their place. For example, if your content is an almost full screen and swipeable map, then you can't or at least shouldn't use the same gesture (swiping) for navigation.

    We need both options. This is not an either/or question. The real questions are:

    A) when should which approach be used

    B) what would a Metro-Like implementation for both approaches look&feel like

    C) and which should be the preferred approach if both are viable.

    Many of us refer to this as the hamburger-problem, and some brain-deads unfortunately mistake that to mean that some just don't like how the icon looks, which is completely besides the point.
    What it really comes down to is how to best implement navigation that is compact so it doesn't require a lot of screen real estate/chrome, can be used with one hand, doesn't distract from the content, looks clean and uncluttered, and is intuitive. It's not really about a particular button, and particularly not about a hamburger button.
    01-23-2015 08:42 AM
  2. tiziano27's Avatar
    With hamburger menus there is more space available, so It's possible to provide more options and classify them by sections. The current menus in Metro apps are the same mess that the Settings screen of WP, a list of unordered items without classification, color, or any visual cue to facilitate the use, an awful user experience.

    There is no smartphone that can be used only with one hand. In WP the user has to reach elements at the top screen all the time, for example, links or the hamburger menu in a web page, the first items in lists. The hamburger menu just add a little more interaction with the second hand, but UI interaction is so automatic that the user doesn't really notice any difference after a couple of days.

    The smartphone user is not in a race to do the operations fast, that's not the main reason why people choose a platform. Convention more than efficiency is the main drive behind UI interaction, for example, the qwerty keyboard. Hamburger menus are more intuitive because in almost every computing device the menu and options are at the top of the screen. The weirdness of Metro is one of the causes to explain the low market share of this platform.

    So, developers, remove all those ugly menus from the bottom, Windows 10 is coming.
    01-23-2015 09:29 AM
  3. a5cent's Avatar
    The weirdness of Metro is one of the causes to explain the low market share of this platform.
    If you truly believe that a lot of people seriously considered WP, and then thought or had a feeling along the lines of: "you know what, if only this command bar was at the top I would buy it", then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Sorry tiziano, that's nonsense.

    At this point WP's low market share does have something to do with convention... the convention is that iOS or Android are so prevalent, that WP isn't even thought of as a valid choice. There are a dozen other reasons too, but the command bar being at the bottom is not one of them.
    01-23-2015 10:14 AM
  4. luisfarelo's Avatar
    You guys will be complaining forever, I hope you know that. I don't care how it looks just give me the features I need and want. [bleep] Metro, [bleep] panorama. All you guys do is hold on to the past. One tech writer even argued that we should bring back built in Hubs for goodness sake. Completely forgetting the huge problems they brought. It seems like being different has created more headache for Microsoft than its worth, they can't move forward. People want their cake and they want to eat it too. And the Nokia hardcore fans that say they wont buy a windows phone with the words "Microsoft" on it in lieu of "Nokia". Give me a brake numbnuts its the same thing, same people making the phone. It seems it to me it would be better that all these people who don't like where Microsoft is going should jump ship put all of us out of our misery. You don't complain about what MS is doing we don't have to listen to your constant whining, geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzz.
    So, if we wanted FEATURES we would be on Android. We want a system that is more elegant, fluid and retains what made it original in the first place.
    01-23-2015 10:46 AM
  5. tiziano27's Avatar
    If you truly believe that a lot of people seriously considered WP, and then thought or had a feeling along the lines of: "you know what, if only this command bar was at the top I would buy it", then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Sorry tiziano, that's nonsense.

    At this point WP's low market share does have something to do with convention... the convention is that iOS or Android are so prevalent, that WP isn't even thought of as a valid choice. There are a dozen other reasons too, but the command bar being at the bottom is not one of them.

    People is not operating in a deep rational level all the time. So, of course It's not like you said.

    The rejection to WP is an emotional reaction to the question: "How do I use this fu*** thing?". It's not a deep analysis about the relative position of the UI elements.

    A device that has the UI elements where they're supposed to be, generates confidence in the prospective buyer.
    01-23-2015 10:58 AM
  6. dkediger's Avatar
    People is not operating in a deep rational level all the time. So, of course It's not like you said.

    The rejection to WP is an emotional reaction to the question: "How do I use this fu*** thing?". It's not a deep analysis about the relative position of the UI elements.

    A device that has the UI elements where they're supposed to be, generates confidence in the prospective buyer.
    Look - an anecdote - but I just switched my parents out of some forsaken entry level Samsung 'droids they got from a mall vendor for gently used 822's I got great deals on. Both of their 'droid's were pretty much unaltered as they came from Verizon, because, as you say, "How do I use this fu*** thing?".

    They've seen me using my 928 and Icon - they've seen plenty of iPhones as well - but liked the approach and low cost of what I could set them up with.

    WP isn't fundamentally much different than IOS or Android - its more familiarity and confirmation bias's that work against it.
    01-23-2015 11:59 AM
  7. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    Please, please Microsoft, stop this nonsense. Extend the functionality of the triple dot menu (allow it to get controls in it, not just text buttons) but don't add dumbass hamburgers. They are just so irritating to reach, even on a 4.7 inch Lumia 820 :(
    01-23-2015 12:01 PM
  8. Arhitecter's Avatar
    So, if we wanted FEATURES we would be on Android. We want a system that is more elegant, fluid and retains what made it original in the first place.
    Well said. If WP lost modern design, it loose almost all that it have.
    luisfarelo likes this.
    01-23-2015 12:41 PM
  9. LSDigital's Avatar
    That's not the point. This is for universal apps.
    It's easier to click on an hamburger menu on PC. Swipe it's a mobile thing only.
    01-23-2015 01:15 PM
  10. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    Neither is better. Both have their place. For example, if your content is an almost full screen and swipeable map, then you can't or at least shouldn't use the same gesture (swiping) for navigation.

    We need both options. This is not an either/or question. The real questions are:

    A) when should which approach be used

    B) what would a Metro-Like implementation for both approaches look&feel like

    C) and which should be the preferred approach if both are viable.

    Many of us refer to this as the hamburger-problem, and some brain-deads unfortunately mistake that to mean that some just don't like how the icon looks, which is completely besides the point.
    What it really comes down to is how to best implement navigation that is compact so it doesn't require a lot of screen real estate/chrome, can be used with one hand, doesn't distract from the content, looks clean and uncluttered, and is intuitive. It's not really about a particular button, and particularly not about a hamburger button.
    I'm also not against the hamburger button. I'm against the way it is used. Sure they could use illipsis at the place of hamburgers and I'd still hate that. And we have a nav bar below, use that instead of hamburger for apps such as maps. We never did really require hamburger in our OS till date, why now then?
    a5cent, DOGC_Kyle and xandros9 like this.
    01-23-2015 01:18 PM
  11. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    I hate android for this nightmare menus and buttons, for this design chaos that now came to WP. MS, this is don't attract developers! All that they interested in is active users and profitable of OS. But this scare away a lot of users, that prefer windows phone for its comfortableness and uniqueness. If OS look and feel the same as android, people would buy android, that already have a lot of apps and devices! MS, don't be stupid.
    Such a simple thing, why doesn't MS and everybody who supprt them understand this?

    I have a 920 and I was waiting for Windows 10 and new flagship as I didn't like 930. But now, if they kept this Android like UI, I'd have to think now whether to get Windows Phone or not. I liked WP for beatiful interface, clean, minimal, different, effective, eye catching. If they are making it look like Android. And being flat is the only thing that is retaining from the Metro, I'd really consider Lollipop. At least I will have better quality apps like Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and I will not need to care for the UI, as the same is available on Windows 10. Also, with Android, I have choice in both apps and devices, various of them. The only thing that kept me with WP even with those half functioning apps was its UI.
    01-23-2015 01:19 PM
  12. Arhitecter's Avatar
    That's not the point. This is for universal apps.
    It's easier to click on an hamburger menu on PC. Swipe it's a mobile thing only.
    In desktop windows right now in W8 swipe replaced by scrolling the mouse wheel or moving the slider. It works good, understandable and look great in panoramic modern apps.
    01-23-2015 05:48 PM
  13. cool8man's Avatar
    Allowing developers to put these menus in their apps doesn't explain why Microsoft is dumping Metro and using hamburger menu for all of their first party apps.

    Certainly not an improvement for people with big phones or small hands. Bye bye to one handed operation. Apple's one handed mode solution of deleting half of your screen so you can reach the top is like a bad joke. Is that where MS is heading with Windows phones and tablets?


    Makes me wonder what's next, nested-menus on smartphones? Can't wait to regress back to the Windows Mobile days. That sure was a super fun intuitive way to use a phone, maybe they can include a stylus pointing stick to help use our phones.
    01-23-2015 09:59 PM
  14. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    soo your only reason for buying a phone is the looks... shallow then. maybe youd be better off with android then!

    It is not the only reason, but it is a major one, at least for me. Metro UI was one of the main reasons I bought a Windows Phone. We all consider looks while buying everything, a bike, a car, a house. Heck, even when we fall in love, we consider looks at some extent. And you tell me then, what else has Windows Phone to offer to me better than Android other than looks? Please tell me?
    01-24-2015 02:42 AM
  15. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    Windows Phone 7 was a very well though OS. Every minor detail of the OS was well thought and polished. It just lacked features which were then added in Windows Phone 8. But that was not enough, and so did they add more features in 8.1, but took away some of really well thought features. For ex. In Music Hub, in WP8, when you would 'add a song to now playing', it would play right after the song that is currently played. This was a neat small feature, ripped away in WP8.1. In the Photos Hub when you would zoom out of an already zoomed out photo, you would get a strip of photos which you could use to scroll fast to go to another photo instead of pressing back button and finding that photo from the tiny thumbnails. This was also a beautiful, neat feature. This was the easy to use WP UI. This also was also one of the aspect of Metro besides looks. This user friendy ness is ripped away further in Windows 10. For ex. new Photos app. If you want to go to albums in Windows 10, you have to tap the 'hamburger' the, tap 'albums'. In WP 7/8/8.1 you can just swipe sideways to go to albums. Tell me which is simple, more funtional, more user friendly and more good looking?
    Last edited by white_Shadoww; 01-24-2015 at 03:05 AM.
    01-24-2015 02:51 AM
  16. iyae's Avatar
    Certainly not an improvement for people with big phones or small hands. Bye bye to one handed operation.
    Who are you trying to kid? I have a lumia 930 on windows phone 8.1 and it CANNOT be operated in one hand. Little hamburger menus aren't the reason for that, the screen size is. What do you do when you want to select the top setting in the phone? or the top most tile? This "i hate hamburgers because I cant use one hand anymore" argument is a load of BS.
    tiziano27 and TonyDedrick like this.
    01-24-2015 06:00 AM
  17. iyae's Avatar
    For ex. new Photos app. If you want to go to albums in Windows 10, you have to tap the 'hamburger' the, tap 'albums'. In WP 7/8/8.1 you can just swipe sideways to go to albums. Tell me which is simple, more funtional, more user friendly and more good looking?
    I haven't tried, and neither have you tried, the photo app on Windows 10 for phone. So functional and user friendly, we have to wait. More good looking? Ill tell you straight up its the Windows 10 photos app from what I've seen.
    01-24-2015 06:02 AM
  18. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    I haven't tried, and neither have you tried, the photo app on Windows 10 for phone. So functional and user friendly, we have to wait. More good looking? Ill tell you straight up its the Windows 10 photos app from what I've seen.

    No, the app we had back in WP8.0 was the most good looking!
    01-24-2015 06:06 AM
  19. skinnypig118's Avatar
    01-24-2015 07:50 AM
  20. BryGuyNovice2014's Avatar
    Am I the only one annoyed by the ant-sized menu icons and texts plus the 2/3 of free space?

    Attachment 94474

    That looks like too much white space that wasn't carefully designed.
    Marlon Bu likes this.
    01-24-2015 09:52 AM
  21. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    I always wonder why people are so shocked about this. Anyone who is paying attention knew thus was coming since 8.1.Everybody with 8.1 pull up Cortana right now. Tell me where the dots are and then the hamburger menu.
    tiziano27 and iyae like this.
    01-24-2015 11:46 PM
  22. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    No. I disagree. See what we have here? Differing opinions. Microsoft cant please everyone all so you just have to grow up and deal with it.
    New Gallery is not clearly Metro. It surely looks like Android. Why deviate from Metro? Pivots are better than hamburger asthetically.
    luisfarelo likes this.
    01-24-2015 11:50 PM
  23. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    New Gallery is not clearly Metro. It surely looks like Android. Why deviate from Metro? Pivots are better than hamburger asthetically.
    ​And in term of use and being able to be discovered by new users? Or is this all about pretty?
    01-24-2015 11:55 PM
  24. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    I always wonder why people are so shocked about this. Anyone who is paying attention knew thus was coming since 8.1.Everybody with 8.1 pull up Cortana right now. Tell me where the dots are and then the hamburger menu.
    Having hamburger in one app that too on the right side and implemented in a different way, and having hamburger in every app and implemented the Android way is the problem. You get it?? In Cortana, you have the search bar and mic button at the bottom hence the menu on the upper side. Like I don't hate hamburger, even if they put ellipsis on the upper left corner retaining the functionality of the hamburger I'd still hate it. I hate it for 2 reasons.

    1. Control and menus in the app bar on the lower side of the screen are easy to use for single handed, for whatever handed use.
    2. Since WP has existed, WP has done everythin differently to Android and iOS. It had it's own different UI. Now, it's all the same. It is not a good thing.

    I don't get it why people buy WP and then wish it looked like Android. Why don't they get Android in the first place if you don't like pivots and big typography? It's like buying a Camaro, and saying it should look like Ferrari.
    01-24-2015 11:58 PM
  25. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    ​And in term of use and being able to be discovered by new users? Or is this all about pretty?
    So you say, old gallery was difficult to get discovered by new users? How come?

    And in terms of use, what is better, to swipe sideway to go to album in the current gallery (single step) or tap the hamburger then tap albums (2 stes)?

    Please don't defend MS for whatever they do. I appreciate the new features in the Windwos 10 gallery but current gallery is more easy to use.
    Kram Sacul and Arhitecter like this.
    01-24-2015 11:59 PM
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