04-03-2015 08:41 AM
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  1. tiziano27's Avatar
    New Gallery is not clearly Metro. It surely looks like Android. Why deviate from Metro? Pivots are better than hamburger asthetically.

    Actually, Pivot Is not a good design because most people only use the first page. Depending on the length of the titles, the app can show generally 3 page titles at the top of each page, the other pages are hidden without any indication of their existence. Swiping in the last page rotates back to the first page, increasing the confusion. I guess these inconsistencies make the users to ignore the functionality altogether.
    The Panorama is even worse, the user can scroll sometimes horizontally, other times vertically. It only hints the existence of the next page.

    "Tabs" is a better design, all the tabs are visible in all pages, so the user is always aware of the possibilities and current location. It's possible to navigate between tabs swiping in any part of the screen, good for one-handed-use fans. Combined with an hamburger menu for the less frequently used options, It's a really good design. Microsoft is using this for the MSN apps in Android.

    Metro has so many flaws, It's not a surprise that all the products based on Metro failed. Windows 8 was the culmination of the total nonsense. Thankfully is being improved/abandoned.
    01-25-2015 03:16 AM
  2. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    Actually, Pivot Is not a good design because most people only use the first page. Depending on the length of the titles, the app can show generally 3 page titles at the top of each page, the other pages are hidden without any indication of their existence. Swiping in the last page rotates back to the first page, increasing the confusion. I guess these inconsistencies make the users to ignore the functionality altogether.

    The Panorama is even worse, the user can scroll sometimes horizontally, other times vertically. It only hints the existence of the next page.



    Tabs in Android is a better design, all the tabs are visible in all pages, so the user is always aware of the possibilities and current location. It's possible to navigate between tabs swiping in any part of the screen, good for one-handed-use fans. Combined with an hamburger menu for the less frequently used options, It's a really good design. Microsoft is using this for the MSN apps in Android.



    Metro has so many flaws, It's not a surprise that all the products based on Metro failed. Windows 8 was the culmination of the total nonsense. Thankfully is being improved/abandoned.

    You maybe right, but once you use an app you know how many pages are there. It's not like they change everytime. I've never had any problem with my phone even when back in 8.0 where we had massive fonts and could see only 2 pages in pivot. That's because, when I first launched an app I learned how many pages are there. It's just the same way, that first you launch an app with hamburger menu, and tap the hamburger you learn what is inside.

    Tabs with hamburger is the ugliest looking design. And no, tabs aren't the best for single handed use. Try tapping on a tab on 1520 with one hand and try swiping, which is easier?
    Tabs and pivots aren't differentt. Pivots are evolved from tabs having a good balance in beauty and functionality

    Sure Metro has flaws, so does hamburger. Windows 8 and everything with Metro failed because MS put too much emphasis on touch than keyboard and mouse/touchpad. WP failed beacuse of lack of features. Still we don't have built in WiFi direct, USB OTG. And there were many features missing, which got included just now ex. Data connection toggle. This was the reason of failure of WP, not the UI. I'd say WP survived just because of UI.
    01-25-2015 03:38 AM
  3. luisfarelo's Avatar
    OMG I have seen more pictures of the new W10 for phones interface and really, Microsoft ruined the metro interface for good. No design, no consistency, really a poor mans Android. I never thought I would say this, but Lollipop is much more consistent in design than this. I suspect we will also lose the fluidity of the operating system, with splash screens everywhere. They killed everything that was superior in WindowsPhone, while staying inferior to Android and ios in many ways. When my Ativ S dies I suspect I won't be returning to windows, Microsoft has really dropped the ball here. Am I the only one thinking this way?
    white_Shadoww likes this.
    01-25-2015 03:47 AM
  4. Asik15's Avatar
    Why dont we just give em a little more time to finish... before complaining ?? its a pure Beta Even a 1st Build...... cool down guys.... they are trying to do something different ....

    " People Saw some mere screen shots of the Upcoming OS and they lost their Mind !!!!!! :/
    01-25-2015 05:12 AM
  5. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    OMG I have seen more pictures of the new W10 for phones interface and really, Microsoft ruined the metro interface for good. No design, no consistency, really a poor mans Android. I never thought I would say this, but Lollipop is much more consistent in design than this. I suspect we will also lose the fluidity of the operating system, with splash screens everywhere. They killed everything that was superior in WindowsPhone, while staying inferior to Android and ios in many ways. When my Ativ S dies I suspect I won't be returning to windows, Microsoft has really dropped the ball here. Am I the only one thinking this way?


    That's the same way I feel. I feel Lollipop is more consistent than this. You seen the new phone app? With those blue tabs. And new icons, all are ugly. To me it looks like a cross between Kitkat and Lollipop, combined bad things of both. It doesn't sure look like Windows Phone.



    The UI and fluidity of the OS were the reason I bough Windows Phone. Now, Android has the same fluidity and there are no splash screens in Android either. And now the UI of Windows Phpne becoming inferior to Android. I think I now have no reason to stay with Windows Phone.



    I stayed with Windows Phone, even with those half functioning apps, just because of Metro. I bought many apps for the lack of quality official apps. Ex. Tweet it! And now Tweetium, Booklet for Facebook, all Angry Birds games, myTube and some other games. Now I feel like I should have gone to Android, cause there I would get all these official apps, and that too for free. I happily paid for the apps because I wanted to be with Windows Phone. Everytime I used to bring out the phone of my pocket, I would adore it for the beautiful UI. I feel like heartborken now. :D
    Last edited by white_Shadoww; 01-25-2015 at 05:25 AM.
    01-25-2015 05:14 AM
  6. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    Why dont we just give em a little more time to finish... before complaining ?? its a pure Beta Even a 1st Build...... cool down guys.... they are trying to do something different ....





    " People Saw some mere screen shots of the Upcoming OS and they lost their Mind !!!!!! :/


    That is because things won't change much. Same happened when new Xbox apps were introduced in the Developer Preview of 8.1. And when we complained about the speed of it, all we got was the answer, 'You are on a beta software, what do you expect, a butter smooth app?? Wait for Cyan. If you can't bear with bugs you shouldn't have installed DP'. Now we got Cyan, even some phones got Denim. Is the app as smooth as old Music+Videos hub? Don't even talk about Xbox videos app which always checks for my Xbox account even for local videos and even when I don't have Xbox account. I feel Windows 10 will end the same way.



    And again, if we didn't complain now, why will Microsoft change the UI? If we complained now, gave feedback (that is what preview is for), then we can see a change in UI.



    So, the discussion going on is healthy for the OS itself. We are not arguing, but helping polishing the OS more.
    01-25-2015 05:21 AM
  7. Asik15's Avatar
    That is because things won't change much. Same happened when new Xbox apps were introduced in the Developer Preview of 8.1. And when we complained about the speed of it, all we got was the answer, 'You are on a beta software, what do you expect, a butter smooth app?? Wait for Cyan. If you can't bear with bugs you shouldn't have installed DP'. Now we got Cyan, even some phones got Denim. Is the app as smooth as old Music+Videos hub? Don't even talk about Xbox videos app which always checks for my Xbox account even for local videos and even when I don't have Xbox account. I feel Windows 10 will end the same way.



    And again, if we didn't complain now, why will Microsoft change the UI? If we complained now, gave feedback (that is what preview is for), then we can see a change in UI.



    So, the discussion going on is healthy for the OS itself. We are not arguing, but helping polishing the OS more.
    Giving a feedback is a correct thing .. i am talking about some people on web are complaining unnecessarily ... Complaining with a valid reason and a solution, thats what MS needs Right now
    white_Shadoww likes this.
    01-25-2015 06:10 AM
  8. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    Everyone who feels concerned, please sign this: https://www.change.org/p/microsoft-c...-10-for-phones

    And forward it to wincentral
    01-25-2015 07:45 AM
  9. tiziano27's Avatar
    Tabs with hamburger is the ugliest looking design. And no, tabs aren't the best for single handed use. Try tapping on a tab on 1520 with one hand and try swiping, which is easier?
    Tabs and pivots aren't differentt. Pivots are evolved from tabs having a good balance in beauty and functionality
    "Tabs" also allow swiping for navigation. So, It's good for one-handed-use.

    In Metro, the developer has to differentiate the functional aspect of text with typography, with the size of the font. As anyone can notice smartphones have small screens, so, clearly It's not a good idea to use big fonts. But Metro is not about usability, It's about.. I don't know, abstract design that fails in reality.
    So, the "Pivot" is a name to explain that tabs don't fit on the screen because the font is too big. They could use color instead of font size to differentiate the menus, but that's anti-Metro.

    If a developer follows the Metro guidance she get a boring and ugly monochrome screen with huge page titles that don't fit, a confusing navigation system, menus that aren't where they're expected. A poor user experience.

    With Windows 8, Microsoft went even further with Metro radicalism. Sacrificing user experience for.. I don't know, stupidity. For example, the completely hidden menus, the charms nonsense. Too much precious space wasted in white space. A new touch language with gestures that nobody adopted and they retired after a year.

    Metro has been out of touch with reality since It's inception. Apple and Google assimilated the only good aspect of it, flat design, but thankfully not radical and ugly flat design. Apple and Google have a more balanced design.
    Last edited by tiziano27; 01-25-2015 at 08:07 AM.
    01-25-2015 07:52 AM
  10. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    "Tabs" also allow swiping for navigation. So, It's good for one-handed-use.

    In Metro, the developer has to differentiate the functional aspect of text with typography, with the size of the font. As anyone can notice smartphones have small screens, so, clearly It's not a good idea to use big fonts. But Metro is not about usability, It's about.. I don't know, abstract design that fails in reality.
    So, the "Pivot" is a name to explain that tabs don't fit on the screen because the font is too big. They could use color instead of font size to differentiate the menus, but that's anti-Metro.

    If a developer follows the Metro guidance she get a boring and ugly monochrome screen with huge page titles that don't fit, a confusing navigation system, menus that aren't where they're expected. A poor user experience.

    With Windows 8, Microsoft went even further with Metro radicalism. Sacrificing user experience for.. I don't know, stupidity. For example, the completely hidden menus, the charms nonsense. Too much precious space wasted in white space. A new touch language with gestures that nobody adopted and they retired after a year.

    Metro is out of touch with reality, since It's inception. Apple and Google assimilated the only good aspect of it, flat design, but thankfully not radical and ugly flat design. Apple and Google have a more balanced design.
    So you're saying that reaching all the way up to the top left, at the exact opposite of where your thumb is, is simpler than swiping up from the bottom? No, you aren't. But Microsoft is, and that's the main problem here. Not tabs, which are, indeed, probably better than pivots.
    white_Shadoww likes this.
    01-25-2015 08:08 AM
  11. tiziano27's Avatar
    So you're saying that reaching all the way up to the top left, at the exact opposite of where your thumb is, is simpler than swiping up from the bottom? No, you aren't. But Microsoft is, and that's the main problem here. Not tabs, which are, indeed, probably better than pivots.
    No, I'm saying with tabs you can swipe close to the bottom too. So, Pivots are just Metro-distorted tabs.

    But I think you refer to the picture of the new photo gallery app in Windows 10. There is no tabs there, only an hamburger menu. So, you think It's a wrong idea to force the user to the hamburger menu to access functionality that in 8.1 was more accessible through tabs/Pivot.

    Well, a few years ago Microsoft reveled some stats about this particular app. It happened when they introduced some changes that caused an uproar from groups that profess Metro radicalism. If I remember correctly almost 80% of the users never go beyond the first tab in the picture gallery. So, Microsoft is moving functionally that is not frequently used to the hamburger menu, providing more screen space for the functionality that is actually used.
    I think that's a great idea, hamburger menus are great when used properly as in this case.
    01-25-2015 08:32 AM
  12. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Having hamburger in one app that too on the right side and implemented in a different way, and having hamburger in every app and implemented the Android way is the problem. You get it?? In Cortana, you have the search bar and mic button at the bottom hence the menu on the upper side. Like I don't hate hamburger, even if they put ellipsis on the upper left corner retaining the functionality of the hamburger I'd still hate it. I hate it for 2 reasons.

    1. Control and menus in the app bar on the lower side of the screen are easy to use for single handed, for whatever handed use.
    2. Since WP has existed, WP has done everythin differently to Android and iOS. It had it's own different UI. Now, it's all the same. It is not a good thing.

    I don't get it why people buy WP and then wish it looked like Android. Why don't they get Android in the first place if you don't like pivots and big typography? It's like buying a Camaro, and saying it should look like Ferrari.
    ​Because it is more efficient, still has a better UI, and will have better stock apps at 10. Also, hamburger menu is on iOS as well, and they don't whine as much as WP users do. If anyone came here, they'd likely instantly realize the user base is so bad they might not get a WP device.

    So you say, old gallery was difficult to get discovered by new users? How come?

    And in terms of use, what is better, to swipe sideway to go to album in the current gallery (single step) or tap the hamburger then tap albums (2 stes)?

    Please don't defend MS for whatever they do. I appreciate the new features in the Windwos 10 gallery but current gallery is more easy to use.
    ​I speak from personal experience when I had to explain several times what the three dots did for apps. People know the hamburger menu, that's a fact.
    tiziano27 likes this.
    01-25-2015 11:04 AM
  13. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    ​Because it is more efficient, still has a better UI, and will have better stock apps at 10. Also, hamburger menu is on iOS as well, and they don't whine as much as WP users do. If anyone came here, they'd likely instantly realize the user base is so bad they might not get a WP device.



    ​I speak from personal experience when I had to explain several times what the three dots did for apps. People know the hamburger menu, that's a fact.
    Fine. Replace the three dots icon with a hamburger icon, and done. Problem solved
    a5cent likes this.
    01-25-2015 12:30 PM
  14. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Fine. Replace the three dots icon with a hamburger icon, and done. Problem solved
    ​Except that's what people around here are complaining about,
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    01-25-2015 12:59 PM
  15. kalo88's Avatar
    Microsofts ui is evolving, I like the direction it's going. Oversized fonts aren't particularly attractive and the metro design language has actually lead to some extremely poor quality apps because people are just throwing about squares and huge fonts.

    They'll never please everyone but this design has been around for years, they're trying something new.
    01-25-2015 01:10 PM
  16. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Everyone who feels concerned, please sign this: https://www.change.org/p/microsoft-c...-10-for-phones

    And forward it to wincentral
    This proposes that the hamburger menu would be okay at the top left? I disagree. Whether Microsoft "copies" the hamburger or not, the "icon" should be lower right corner of our phones.
    a5cent likes this.
    01-25-2015 01:22 PM
  17. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    ​Except that's what people around here are complaining about,
    I mean, replace the actual ICON. Not the menu. As so:wp_ss_20150125_0001.jpg

    Plus, you could do an awesome animation where the three bars of the burger extend or something.
    white_Shadoww likes this.
    01-25-2015 01:22 PM
  18. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    Fine. Replace the three dots icon with a hamburger icon, and done. Problem solved

    Lolllllzzzzzzz... Best comment I heard in a while!
    01-25-2015 01:39 PM
  19. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    ​Because it is more efficient, still has a better UI, and will have better stock apps at 10. Also, hamburger menu is on iOS as well, and they don't whine as much as WP users do. If anyone came here, they'd likely instantly realize the user base is so bad they might not get a WP device.



    ​I speak from personal experience when I had to explain several times what the three dots did for apps. People know the hamburger menu, that's a fact.
    Do you not realise that Apple discourages the hamburger menu?
    https://medium.com/design-philosophi...s-a17e4099fada
    Name an Apple app with a hamburger.
    There are none, so don't bring iOS into this
    01-25-2015 01:45 PM
  20. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    Do you not realise that Apple discourages the hamburger menu?
    https://medium.com/design-philosophi...s-a17e4099fada
    Name an Apple app with a hamburger.

    There are none, so don't bring iOS into this

    The same thing. Apple has kept it's uniqueness, Android too with their hamburgers. Why should we copy then? Shouldn't we retain the uniqueness?
    01-25-2015 01:57 PM
  21. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    ​Except that's what people around here are complaining about,

    We aren't complaining about hamburger menu. We are complaining about where it is placed and how it is implemented! Unintuitive like Android.
    a5cent, sahib lopez and Kevin Rush like this.
    01-25-2015 02:03 PM
  22. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Do you not realise that Apple discourages the hamburger menu?
    https://medium.com/design-philosophi...s-a17e4099fada
    Name an Apple app with a hamburger.
    There are none, so don't bring iOS into this
    Why does it have to be an Apple app? Or do you mean iOS app, because I have one in my 6+ that I use a lot that has one.
    01-25-2015 02:04 PM
  23. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    The same thing. Apple has kept it's uniqueness, Android too with their hamburgers. Why should we copy then? Shouldn't we retain the uniqueness?
    ​Uniqueness at any cost, right?
    01-25-2015 02:06 PM
  24. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    We aren't complaining about hamburger menu. We are complaining about where it is placed and how it is implemented! Unintuitive like Android.
    That's not how the first post made it seem.
    iyae likes this.
    01-25-2015 02:07 PM
  25. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    ​Uniqueness at any cost, right?

    You please read that article Ebuka Allison posted. You will understand why hamburger is a wrong choice.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    01-25-2015 02:10 PM
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