02-18-2015 11:51 AM
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  1. nohra's Avatar
    At least there IS a silver lining to this cloud... it looks like there is a DEDICATED REPLY BUTTON. Why forward, reply and reply-to-all are currently grouped in one "forward" button I have NEVER understood.
    James8561 likes this.
    01-22-2015 10:01 AM
  2. jjag520's Avatar
    To be fair, when you tap into individual emails on current 8.1 devices, they have a back and forward button despite a capacitive/hardware/on-screen back button.
    That's the reply button, not a back button.
    Was referring to these. Joe B. tapped the left arrow on the middle of the ribbon to reply, so betting that's the reply arrow/button. So guessing the arrow on the top left is but a redundant back arrow/button. I don't see why we'd need one for WP since we already have a back capacitive/hardware/on-screen button for that, android does too. iOS really is the only one that needs that dedicated back arrow up there, hence I said the app looks like it was tailored for iOS. The main aesthetic of the app gives off a very iOS7/8 vibe, you know, the whole colored ribbon up top, back arrow on the top left, some more buttons on the other side. Just my opinion though.

    Guessing those 4 buttons there are Back, Reply, Reply to all, Forward, & Delete.

    untitled3.jpg
    yjuer9b.jpgupto_calendar_iphone_screens_2.jpg
    Last edited by jjag520; 01-22-2015 at 10:50 AM.
    sahib lopez and a5cent like this.
    01-22-2015 10:37 AM
  3. mortici's Avatar
    Is there another capture that shows a back arrow?, because I think in the one posted here, that back arrow is the reply command.

    Popups should block the underlying UI, or at least block the UI close to the popup. They could also make the volume popup bigger.

    When activating a command through touch, you're concentrated targeting the command with the finger, so the effect of the command is out of your visual field. Most of the time the effect of the command is obvious, so there is no need to see the exact change of state. When really want to see the effect give your hand a little angle using your wrist.

    The bottom location has problems too, most people don't pay attention to the bottom of the screen. For example, It's a know fact that notification bars at the bottom are never seen. So, there is a little bit of mental overhead to go for the commands at the bottom, specially for new users.
    what a5cent mentions is correct and valid. Think of the UI this way: Content & Information at the top half, Navigation & Input at the bottom half. Moving your navigation or input portion to the top half intrudes on the content & information that is being presented, again toast notifications etc block nav. What if you got a toast at the time you wanted to reply or go back, now you went into the toast notifications app, causing frustration...

    Its not good design, that's the key thing. It works cross platform but makes for poor UX.

    One solution is to have the UX/UI transition to bottom half of the screen when Win10 detects its running on 6" or smaller screen. Think of this way a tablet you will most definitely use two handed, so controls can exist at the top for the most part. Anything smaller like a phone should be operational single handed all the time, no matter what.

    Think of a one armed person, on a tablet or pc/laptop whatever they have other modes of input, pen, mouse, touchpad or even touch, etc that can still give you ease of use single handed (those devices are rarely used while walking or doing casual things if anything once you set it to the screen you want say for reading you would pick it up and walk and read and sit down somewhere else or whatever. A phone type device on the other hand should be used single handedly, reading info and writing a note with a pen in the other hand while still navigating the phone, or the one armed person where they walk and need to use the phone without fumbling and possibly dropping a larger device, if your wondering why they would get a large device what if they have poor vision too?

    More importantly, they should focus on UX/UI experience across their OWN platform. Provide the services and apps on other platforms with the poor UX/UI, while providing a superior experience on your own platform. Thus giving a reason to switch, "Yes you can have our services on your platform of choice, but if you are on the Windows platform you will have the best experience possible as our UI design keeps the user UX of content over chrome"

    MS should set the standard for UX not follow.
    Last edited by mortici; 01-22-2015 at 11:13 AM.
    01-22-2015 10:37 AM
  4. drankurn's Avatar
    so did someone make a Usevoice Post for this yet?

    Discussing it here is fine but it needs to be on the Uservoice for MS/Windows 10 team, before all this changes are finalized.
    01-22-2015 10:52 AM
  5. drankurn's Avatar
    well, i just posted this on the Uservoice site,
    everyone who agrees, Please vote and also share on twitter #buttonsatthebottom #windows10
    https://t.co/a7fMqSUMnf
    01-22-2015 11:03 AM
  6. tiziano27's Avatar
    what a5cent mentions is correct and valid. Think of the UI this way: Content & Information at the top half, Navigation & Input at the bottom half. Moving your navigation or input portion to the top half intrudes on the content & information that is being presented, again toast notifications etc block nav. What if you got a toast at the time you wanted to reply or go back, now you went into the toast notifications app, causing frustration...
    What a5cent mentions is valid but not correct. There is no correct UI, many different designs work.

    The design you describe was a total failure. I agree with tcp in this. A more compact design where actionable parts of the UI are where makes sense is better. The old, bad and failed metro had too much structure, too much space wasted, too much monochrome, too much dull geometry.

    Notifications could be thinner and run through the top border, so they don't cover the commands, or any other solution.

    Its not good design, that's the key thing. It works cross platform but makes for poor UX.

    One solution is to have the UX/UI transition to bottom half of the screen when Win10 detects its running on 6" or smaller screen. Think of this way a tablet you will most definitely use two handed, so controls can exist at the top for the most part. Anything smaller like a phone should be operational single handed all the time, no matter what.

    Think of a one armed person, on a tablet or pc/laptop whatever they have other modes of input, pen, mouse, touchpad or even touch, etc that can still give you ease of use single handed (those devices are rarely used while walking or doing casual things if anything once you set it to the screen you want say for reading you would pick it up and walk and read and sit down somewhere else or whatever. A phone type device on the other hand should be used single handedly, reading info and writing a note with a pen in the other hand while still navigating the phone, or the one armed person where they walk and need to use the phone without fumbling and possibly dropping a larger device, if your wondering why they would get a large device what if they have poor vision too?
    WP 8.1 can't be used with one hand, there many elements in the UI that aren't reachable. Android needs a little more use of the other hand. It's not an all or nothing situation.
    I don't feel any annoyance using other platforms with the menus at the top.

    More importantly, they should focus on UX/UI experience across their OWN platform. Provide the services and apps on other platforms with the poor UX/UI, while providing a superior experience on your own platform. Thus giving a reason to switch, "Yes you can have our services on your platform of choice, but if you are on the Windows platform you will have the best experience possible as our UI design keeps the user UX of content over chrome"

    MS should set the standard for UX not follow.
    Sure, that's why the improved the UI so much, breaking the shackles of the boring and dull old metro, and making the new design consistent throughout Windows 10.

    By the way, the UI guidelines for Metro was completely relaxed with Windows 8.1. I remember Jensen Harris like a bald dictator when he presented Windows 8, saying they you had to respect pixel perfect the sacred proportions of the Modern UI elements, or your app could be rejected. All that was dropped with 8.1, and the do whatever you want guideline was established.
    01-22-2015 11:56 AM
  7. drankurn's Avatar
    OP, if you would not mind please post this link to my Uservoice post about the issue in your OP, thanks
    https://t.co/a7fMqSUMnf
    01-22-2015 12:07 PM
  8. cruisezero's Avatar
    You can't try to make a universal app without some compromises. If hamburger button is the compromise then I'll take it. People get too sentimental. If it works and is bringing more apps to the platform because devs have to do less work then I think its a good gain for all of us here.

    Edit: spelling
    tiziano27 and Blu3V3nom07 like this.
    01-22-2015 12:48 PM
  9. naeem151287's Avatar
    I think Microsoft is slowly moving to a User Experience that doesn't need hardware buttons for Back & Search. That is why the UI of Windows 10 is the way it is. It could mean we'll have hardware in the future which won't need anything except a Home button (like the iPhone). Search can be switched on using voice (Hey Cortana) & Back button will be coded in the apps and be part of the UI.

    This is just the way I see it. We'll have to wait and see how it pans out in the future.
    01-22-2015 01:41 PM
  10. naeem151287's Avatar
    User experience is fickle business. Microsoft must already be thinking 2-3 years down the road while designing the user experience of Windows 10. It's called having a vision. We can't (and shouldn't) comment on it until we have experienced it. So when the Preview is out, take the time out to give honest feedback to Microsoft based on your experience. There is no point raging right now just by looking at a demo and a few mockups.
    mortici and tiziano27 like this.
    01-22-2015 01:49 PM
  11. Shatznr's Avatar
    I think there are doing it so that it works well on windows desktops as well as windows phones.
    01-22-2015 01:57 PM
  12. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    One word. Feedback.
    jlzimmerman and Sagar Limaye like this.
    01-22-2015 02:06 PM
  13. YashHarf's Avatar
    I think Windows 10 for Phones are safe in Satya Nadella's hands.. Wait for the Preview OS and start giving feedback.. And be a part of creating Better UI for WP :)
    jjag520 likes this.
    01-22-2015 02:14 PM
  14. Paul Kinslow's Avatar
    We don't need to wait and see to decide if we don't like it. Anyone who tries to use a phone with one hand should instantly not like it since it is so much harder to reach than when its on the bottom.
    Alfa Kapa and jasqid like this.
    01-22-2015 02:20 PM
  15. jasqid's Avatar
    If I wanted hamburgers on my phone I would go with iPhone or android. I went with WP because of the freshness of the UI, the way (linked) email, contacts, calendar and tasks work. I really liked the metro UI and we're watching it die a slow death. Just like Hubs. Let me beat that dead horse again! Photo Hub, Me, People, GAMES!? I mean really? it doesn't really do anything for me anymore. Not even peek my xbox avatar unless I get into it.
    01-22-2015 02:44 PM
  16. anon(5969054)'s Avatar
    Any person with a little UI intelligence should know that navigation belongs at the bottom and content at the top. It should be a law in UI design rules for screens that have a single hand user experience.

    I had to set up an iPhone last week for my aunt, and o my god what a horrible experience that way. All the time I had to use my second hand to navigate all those stupid arrows and buttons at the top. And blocking my the view with my hands. And Apple was always yelling they made the perfect UI, an entity of holy perfection? Don't make me laugh. Windows phone 8.1 navigation is light years ahead. I can do everything with my thumb.

    Also a keyboard is always at the bottom, that means when you are busy at the bottom with your fingers the other buttons are nearby which makes sense because your fingers are already there, and a developer has the whole upper screen free for design. When you put the buttons at the top you are spreading out the input places across the screen and it breaks the free space of design that should belong to developers to present content.
    01-22-2015 03:25 PM
  17. mortici's Avatar
    What a5cent mentions is valid but not correct. There is no correct UI, many different designs work.

    The design you describe was a total failure. I agree with tcp in this. A more compact design where actionable parts of the UI are where makes sense is better. The old, bad and failed metro had too much structure, too much space wasted, too much monochrome, too much dull geometry.

    Notifications could be thinner and run through the top border, so they don't cover the commands, or any other solution.



    WP 8.1 can't be used with one hand, there many elements in the UI that aren't reachable. Android needs a little more use of the other hand. It's not an all or nothing situation.
    I don't feel any annoyance using other platforms with the menus at the top.



    Sure, that's why the improved the UI so much, breaking the shackles of the boring and dull old metro, and making the new design consistent throughout Windows 10.

    By the way, the UI guidelines for Metro was completely relaxed with Windows 8.1. I remember Jensen Harris like a bald dictator when he presented Windows 8, saying they you had to respect pixel perfect the sacred proportions of the Modern UI elements, or your app could be rejected. All that was dropped with 8.1, and the do whatever you want guideline was established.
    I agree, after some retrospect, I hope the insider program lets us shape the UI/UX to a much better extent. I agree there are good UI implementations and poor ones, finding the right balance is what we should strive for. For instance I see no issue with the Word/Excel/PowerPoint UI with the menu burger up top and the tabs in the appbar, its a complex app that could benefit from these elements, it can't be a pivot or a panorama at least I couldn't envision it as so. The only way I can see maintain the appbar in these apps is if a quick action brought up a similar screen above it somehow, I dunno think there is just some thinking and feedback needed. I just think simple apps use should use simple UI elements that are easy to access. This can still be seen in the messaging app, the photos app doesn't need this you main tasks are editing, sharing, and viewing photos all that can be managed from the appbar, and navigation can continue to function as a pivot or panorama... But then again most consumers think of it as too hard or foreign and just are intimidated to learn to use it. Again balance needs to be found.

    I am of the opinion that I would rather swipe and view than tap and go back if you know what I mean. To me its faster and easier as you don't have to track where you are...

    The other thing they could be doing is, taking several steps back in UI, then moving back forward with fixing the UI with each iteration of the OS, slowly getting people to adapt one UI change at a time, rather than BAM ALL OF THESE CHANGES!

    Discussion and feedback is the way to go! :)
    tiziano27 likes this.
    01-22-2015 04:06 PM
  18. Wevenhuis's Avatar
    I agree with the sentiment of this thread. When it comes to quick action buttons in apps for windows 10 on a phone, these buttons should be at the bottom as much as possible. Settings should still be part of an app bar design philosophy at the bottom. Textboxes can be put more at the top. Putting more buttons at the top makes me think that microsoft wants us to use big phones for two handed use iin the future. Interesting paradox to some degree.
    01-22-2015 04:32 PM
  19. humanhowever's Avatar
    Isn't this mail app, basically the app they bought recently? The one that has a great app on iPhone? I see the iPhone lot on the trains to and from work using basically the same app (in terms of the left and right swipe?). But maybe the Windows 10 version is slightly different in an 'Outlook' kinda way. Maybe Microsoft could push this onto the other platforms too, seeing as they own the app.
    jjag520 likes this.
    01-22-2015 05:00 PM
  20. onysi's Avatar
    01-22-2015 10:52 PM
  21. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Sure, that's why the improved the UI so much, breaking the shackles of the boring and dull old metro, and making the new design consistent throughout Windows 10.

    By the way, the UI guidelines for Metro was completely relaxed with Windows 8.1. I remember Jensen Harris like a bald dictator when he presented Windows 8, saying they you had to respect pixel perfect the sacred proportions of the Modern UI elements, or your app could be rejected. All that was dropped with 8.1, and the do whatever you want guideline was established.
    No wonder that's when things started to go down hill. If you don't have basic guidelines or a quality standard on the user experience you can end up with chaotic garbage. The embarrassing UI mistakes we've seen in Windows 10 are evidence of that.
    DrewT3, Kevin Rush and manicottiK like this.
    01-22-2015 11:05 PM
  22. buddy007's Avatar
    My only major gripe with the windows 10 event was the least amount of focus they gave to windows 10 on phones and the f*$king hamburger icons on the universal ms apps and all the metro design gone..... Man I really hope to give feedback to change things back to pivot design.... And lets hope they hear it
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    01-22-2015 11:12 PM
  23. buddy007's Avatar
    Having buttons at the top is idiotic, apart from requiring two handed use it also blocks the screen as your hand reaches up there. Is there some kind of industrial espionage going on at Microsoft where someone is deliberately putting these things in place to slowly destroy the modern interface? No way this and some of the other decisions can be intentional.
    Totally agree and lets put this issue forward in the insiders feedback
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    01-22-2015 11:16 PM
  24. TheCudder's Avatar
    Yes, let's keep Windows Phone exactly the same because clearly that's working for Microsoft. If they keep listening to you guys there won't be a Windows Phone in 2 years. You guys are over reacting to an OS you haven't even had hands on yet (one that's not complete at that) Something to think about, how many Android or iOS user are running from their devices because it's so difficult to use?
    01-23-2015 12:08 AM
  25. wuiyang's Avatar
    Either do one of these, the .com button will open the link tabs (will float up from the bottom)
    idea.png
    01-23-2015 12:33 AM
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