01-30-2015 02:27 AM
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  1. sd173's Avatar
    I'm so freakin hyped!
    01-22-2015 08:30 AM
  2. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    I like a lot of what I've seen, but I hate that start screen backgrounds now fill up the entire screen behind the tiles, rather than being able to see a background *through* the tiles, like *windows*. I don't want my phone to look like a PC, and I definitely don't want it to look like iOS or Android. I bought a Lumia because Windows Phone is different.
    You didn't look close enough, and the background image they used in the demo didn't make it obvious, but the transparent tiles are still there. All that changed is that the background is also in the gaps between the tiles, and still visible thru the transparent tiles. And that probably is optional.
    01-22-2015 08:38 AM
  3. brunoadduarte's Avatar
    I didn't have the chance to follow the stream and had to rely on Dan's blogging as I was at work, so I might have missed things. From what I managed to gather, I think they were a bit vague as to the phone version of the OS. Yeah, the mail experience seems better as it should be, but other than that I wasn't that impressed. Here's hoping that MWC and Build have some really exciting news.

    And I'm not trying to sound impatient, but I really do think that Summer is a bit of time to wait for a new flagship phone. Specially if it ends up being later in the season instead of early on.
    01-22-2015 08:40 AM
  4. tgp's Avatar
    Metro (no need to call it "Old Metro", as this is no longer Metro) is a UI design language that was conceptualized to work well on small screens.
    I think that's part of the problem. Metro might have been conceptualized to work well on small screens, but evidently Microsoft felt it didn't IRL. That is my opinion. I've been using WP for over 2 years now, and I've come to the conclusion that it's beautiful to look at, but inefficient to use. I know, I know, saying that is considered barbaric here; I've got my flame suit on! Considering that the design is retracting, it seems that Microsoft engineers agree with me.

    I get tired of huge fonts and blank spaces taking up so much of limited screen real estate. I spend way too much time swiping and scrolling. iOS & Android might look cluttered if you're not used to it, but do you know what? We learn where everything is, and we don't have to look for it. I can look at my home screen of 20 icons, and I know exactly where to find the app I'm after. I don't have to search for it, and little to no swiping is required.

    We become intimately familiar with our devices, and do not experience "brain freeze" or whatever it's called when presented with too much visual information at once. That's also why if you're used to WP and pick up someone else's iPhone or Android, you'll say that it's cluttered and confusing. I remember the first couple times I played with someone else's WP, and I felt exactly the same way. Now I use my WPs and Androids all the time, and I don't feel that way about either.
    01-22-2015 08:56 AM
  5. Dadstar0410's Avatar
    They didn't focus on the mobile experience too much yesterday. That just goes to show that they may not be 100% set on what it will be or look like. If they were ready they'd be willing to show off ALL of the features. MWC and //build/ will be huge on Windows 10 for mobile. This just seem like good times to publicize the mobile version more, to gather hype.
    01-22-2015 09:07 AM
  6. raycpl's Avatar
    What was that?!!
    What are you gonna do when W10-mania runs wild on you?
    01-22-2015 09:11 AM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    I get tired of huge fonts and blank spaces taking up so much of limited screen real estate.
    That we agree on. The solution is pretty simple. We also generally agree that Metro needs improvements.

    On everything else not so much. I'd say Android UI looks cluttered no matter how long I use one. I'd also say most WP start screens are often too nervous, looking much like a newspaper with too many adds, even though I'm used to it. Bad design remains bad design, no matter how long you deal with it. I'm not willing to let familiarity get in the way of good judgement ;-)

    Anyway, you're lucky. My flamethrower is out of gasoline today ;-)
    tgp likes this.
    01-22-2015 09:16 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    I'd say Android UI looks cluttered no matter how long I use one.
    I don't totally agree, but I certainly understand why you feel that way. But, Microsoft is proving with the Metro UI that "uncluttered" doesn't work on mobile. The most important attribute is for the UI to be compact. Because of that it appears cluttered to the novice.

    And I still maintain that it's all what you get used to. I find my way around my Android devices just as easily as my WP devices. I am very familiar with both, and don't have to search on either. It's much quicker on Android because it requires a lot less scrolling and tapping for most functions.

    Is Android "cluttered"? Yes, you could call it that, although I don't think about it. Efficient? Infinitely more so!
    01-22-2015 09:30 AM
  9. venious's Avatar
    Looks like metro ui is basically gone now, in an effort to make android and iPhone users more comfortable in switching.
    01-22-2015 09:39 AM
  10. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    It doesn't need to be consistent with anything else. It should strive only to be consistent with itself!

    Metro (no need to call it "Old Metro", as this is no longer Metro) is a UI design language that was conceptualized to work well on small screens. Such a UI can never be the same as the best possible UI for a large screen. You'd have thought MS learned their lessen when they tried to bring Metro, that was designed for small screens, to W8 which is used on large screens. That didn't go well. This is the exact same mistake in reverse.

    MS needs to be consistent in three ways:
    1. The design language used on devices above 8" needs to be consistent within itself
    2. The design language used on devices below 8" needs to be consistent within itself
    3. And MS needs a consistent approach to mapping the different concepts between those two worlds (generally moving the ribbon down into the command bar is one example, which by itself already makes the point that it can't possibly be 100%consistent)

    The question is which parts of Metro are worth keeping, because they simply work better on small devices. This is where MS is making mistakes. Maintaining design consistency across completely different devices just for the sake of consistency isn't worth anything. That's just counterproductive and asking for trouble. It's better to have design languages specifically tailored/optimized for the devices they are predominantly used on.

    W10M isn't even consistent within itself at this point. Like I said, it's both clicky and swipy and neither. Add in all the existing apps and any semblance of consistency goes out the window.
    This. The UI needs to be consistent among devices they will be used on.
    There should be consistent UI among themselves in
    Phones
    Phablets
    Small tablets
    Large Tablets/2 in 1s
    PCs
    a5cent likes this.
    01-22-2015 09:41 AM
  11. venious's Avatar
    Good visual overview of the new UI in this slideshow. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/...niversal-apps/
    RaRa85 and dgr_874 like this.
    01-22-2015 09:44 AM
  12. luisfarelo's Avatar
    Windows on phones is turning into a wannabe cheap Android. Buttons on top, hamburger menus, no consistency in design. 8.1 already had lost much of the fluidity and design that made WP unique. If this continues I don't know if I'll be staying, having been a longtime fan and having converted people to WP.
    01-22-2015 09:47 AM
  13. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    Still playing catch up though, iOS8 had had this for a while now. Still, good to have the feature.
    When will you and the likes wake up? This ISN'T catch up anymore. This is taking the lead. This is making one big ecosystem work with atmost ease. iOS doesn't have personal assistant on all form factors. iOS doesn't have full blown office on all form factors. iOS certainly doesn't have Xbox One games streamed straight onto my PC. iOS doesn't have OneDrive cloud sync of my songs. iOS doesn't have Skype built into it (Facetime is limited, Skype is cross platform - remember this.)
    01-22-2015 09:50 AM
  14. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I don't totally agree, but I certainly understand why you feel that way. But, Microsoft is proving with the Metro UI that "uncluttered" doesn't work on mobile. The most important attribute is for the UI to be compact. Because of that it appears cluttered to the novice.

    And I still maintain that it's all what you get used to. I find my way around my Android devices just as easily as my WP devices. I am very familiar with both, and don't have to search on either. It's much quicker on Android because it requires a lot less scrolling and tapping for most functions.

    Is Android "cluttered"? Yes, you could call it that, although I don't think about it. Efficient? Infinitely more so!

    It's cluttered if you have all, or most, of your apps on your home screen. If you go the clean route you have to go to the app drawer. Here is where WP has a tiny advantage with the letter search. I'm an unashamed webOS lover so a clean home screen and "Just Type" is my preference.
    sahib lopez likes this.
    01-22-2015 09:50 AM
  15. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    What I liked:

    • That the settings menu is finally getting cleaned up. Great!
    • The ability to dictate rather than type, anywhere I'd be able to type text.
    • That the messaging app is regaining the ability to integrate IP based messaging services, like Skype! Finally! Finally!!!!! Maybe we'll also see Facebook messages back in there...
    • Touch Office looks a lot more powerful than I expected it would be, and just as good as I had hoped. This really does look like it might support the scenario, where a docked phone could potentially replace a laptop for casual MS Office work. Great!
    • The Power Point presentation on the phone was impressive.


    What I did not like:

    1)
    Practically all the first party apps, including the Touch Office apps, are clearly abandoning the Metro design language. The navigation bar at the top of the screen is the main indicator of this, as it often included a hamburger button and the occasional "back arrow". That's just the most visible change of many however. I'm not a fan. This is why:

    • The occasional" back arrow" showing up seems confusing and unnecessary, given that WP has a hardware back button.
    • There is already a lot of edge UI originating from the top, and all of it can cover up those navigation controls. Consider Joe's demonstration. What if he had started writing his response to the text message he received, and then realised he needs to check something in a word document? He can't, because the navigational controls are occluded by the interactive toast message. Even the small version of the audio panel that extends from the top edge would cover up half of that navigational strip. How many people will accidentally tap a navigational button, rather than expand the audio panel as they might have intended?
    • A result of placing a lot of controls at the top of the screen, is that our hands will spend a lot more time blocking our view. Half the time we'll not even see the effect tapping a control at the top of the screen had, so we'll move our hand out of the way, just to move back again to invoke the next action. We're used to this on iPhones, but not on WP. It was the sum of all these little things, that made WP better. To put it more extremely, why don't we place the keyboard at the top of the screen instead of the bottom. Same reason. If Metro was all about "content over chrome", this is now about "hands over content".

    The bottom and right (for right handed people) or left (for left handed people) edges are the best places for commands and navigational chrome. Controls at the top of the screen only work well for things that are used briefly and only occasionally (like volume controls).

    2)
    It's becoming increasingly difficult to identify particular UI concepts that we could give a name and collectively call a design language. One might say that WP is becoming more "clicky" and less "swipey". I admit that is rather mundane, but collectively, all the little changes leaves me with the impression that WP is losing some of what made it original and lovable. Based on what I saw, I'd also say it looks a lot less "alive".

    One example is the command bar in the Touch Office apps. I like that this contains the ribbon, but in earlier releases of WP, we'd have been able to swipe between these ribbons (think of a small pivot control embedded in the command bar). Instead, we tap a button and then tap an entry in a flyout menu. Yes, it's a really trivial thing, but the impression it makes on me is maybe best described with "schizophrenic". Change itself is not necessarily bad, but a lack of consistency, in terms of look & feel, is. The UI seems to be suffering from an identity crisis. It's both swipey and clicky and neither.

    I'd love to read MS' internal guidelines for WP UI design. Right now it seems MS is ignoring many of the subtle differences that made WP great. We seem to be headed towards a WP user interface that is characterless and unprincipled in comparison.

    Of course, this all comes with the caveat that we were presented very early development releases, where much can still change. But at least based on what I saw, I'm no longer a fan of the WP UI.
    I want to start a new thread about this but I think it is too soon but after reading most of the threads in last 12-18 hours, I think we will need a mass movement. We will need this as in nicely articulated feedback as soon as we grab the preview on our phones. We need to let Microsoft know this isn't the "user experience" we want even though they are showering us with so many new features we've been moaning about. For some reason, the way they've repeated on and on that "you insiders" made it happen, I want to believe, they will hear us.

    Can we here at WPCentral, have a team of dedicated Moderators, Ambassadors and Community members active on social media - lobby for active voting? I think we can do this. I will start this thread later once the preview hits our handsets, but basically a massive thread, with a new poll everyday (heck even a new sub-forum) with new thread, new poll every week - about a feature people are happy or unhappy about and then we decide to create a feedback that gets massively voted up or down and we keep prompting and promoting fellow users.

    I think we are the biggest WP community since its birth and now is the time we should actively participate to have the WP as we know it. Remember these, universal apps are very early betas and will change, if we are persistent.

    Agree? No?
    01-22-2015 09:57 AM
  16. drufranco's Avatar
    Any new features and tweaks are always welcome but I would prefer to also see some new hardware soon for this W10 OS, like a 5.5" decked out top of the line Microsoft / Nokia phone coming to Verizon (or anything Microsoft / Nokia for that matter) and the rest of the carriers and world that will make IOS and Android users D R O O L!!!!
    Anyways back to today January 2015, I like the new OS thus far from what has been shown.
    01-22-2015 10:07 AM
  17. iXesh's Avatar
    Sorry you take it so personally. I for one, am very impressed and excited from what I've seen and read so far.
    I think you need more experience in mobile thing and other OS

    Limitations on windows phone sucks actually

    I just want interactive live tile as i was expecting, if i got that then i would be bit happy!

    And actually they need to change the UI, windows 7 unique UI, Windows 8 something new we have got and Windows 10 still the same UI as Windows 8 just slight change and less personalisation option on phone!
    Last edited by Guytronic; 01-22-2015 at 11:26 AM.
    01-22-2015 10:10 AM
  18. jwinch2's Avatar
    From what I have seen, I don't think we have that good of an idea about W10 for Phone at this point. If they release a video detailing the phone specifics the way they did for PC, we might know more.
    01-22-2015 10:28 AM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    And I still maintain that it's all what you get used to. I find my way around my Android devices just as easily as my WP devices.
    So do I. I wasn't talking about finding my way around a device, but about what I find visually appealing. Purely from a utilitarian point of view, I can learn to use any piece of software. I can get used to any inconsistent and cluttered mess of a UI if I must. A clean UI that consistently follows a set of rules, just makes that task enjoyable, rather than a chore.

    The most important attribute is for the UI to be compact. Because of that it appears cluttered to the novice.
    You've given up on the idea that a UI can simultaneously beautiful, functional and compact. I have not.

    But, Microsoft is proving with the Metro UI that "uncluttered" doesn't work on mobile.
    I don't think MS is proving anything of that sort. I doubt MS is even approaching this from where you think they are. I'd be very surprised if within MS, enough people backed the idea that Metro on WP:
    - could not possibly have be evolved into a better and more utilitarian version of itself (what we've seen barely qualifies as Metro)
    - was a lost cause to the extent that they decided to throw most concepts overboard and start anew with something more similar to iOS and Android.
    No. Not buying it.

    I think the truth is much closer to what tiziano mentioned, who suggested that these changes are driven primarily by the universal app initiative. I think it's simply a result of the exact same app running on large tablets and small smartphones, and (at least in their current state) sacrificing Metro in the process. IOW, I don't think there is a deliberate UI design language being worked out and applied to all these apps. I think it's more ad hoc and arbitrary and driven implicitly by app implementation rather than explicitly by design, done by designers.

    Of course I can't prove any of that. I don't know. It's just my gut feeling.
    01-22-2015 10:30 AM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    Agree? No?
    I can't remember ever disagreeing with you rocky! ;-)

    I'm definitely on board with that! You're welcome to use and improve whatever parts of the post that you find useful. I'll gladly help out too if you want. Just give me a shout.
    01-22-2015 10:43 AM
  21. garion86's Avatar
    All I want is the possibility to add a pdf using outlook.
    It's not so difficult, c'mon
    dgr_874 likes this.
    01-22-2015 10:44 AM
  22. tgp's Avatar
    So do I. I wasn't talking about finding my way around a device, but about what I find visually appealing. Purely from a utilitarian point of view, I can learn to use any piece of software. I can get used to any inconsistent and cluttered mess of a UI if I must. A clean UI that consistently follows a set of rules, just makes that task enjoyable, rather than a chore.
    Agreed.

    You've given up on the idea that a UI can simultaneously beautiful, functional and compact. I have not.
    No I actually haven't. I think that iOS & Android fit that bill. But what I might consider "beautiful" is not popular here. In fact, it is very unpopular! Looks are mostly relative.

    That said, if we're going to judge all smartphone UI's by looks only, I'll give WP the blue ribbon, easily. However, its beauty is where the advantages of its UI end. And when it's cumbersome to get something done the visual appeal is quickly forgotten.

    Here's the homescreen on my Nexus 6. It's my primary device ATM. To me, it's visually appealing, clean, very simple, and I have 23 apps available with 1 or 2 taps (2 taps for the apps in folders). And that's only using part of the screen. I have the Google Now widget which shows weather, and occasionally news items, stock prices, or sports scores (ha, no more of that after the Packers' heartbreaking loss!) if something interesting happens. This is quite spartan, but because I wear a smartwatch I don't need widgets for messages or email.

    screenshot-jan-22-2015-11_40_12-am-.jpg

    PS In case you're curious about the news item headline, it reads Why Google Inc.'s “Project Ara” Smartphones Make Absolutely No Sense
    a5cent likes this.
    01-22-2015 10:48 AM
  23. Luisraul924's Avatar
    You'd have thought MS learned their lessen when they tried to bring Metro, that was designed for small screens, to W8 which is used on large screens. That didn't go well. This is the exact same mistake in reverse.

    Maintaining design consistency across completely different devices just for the sake of consistency isn't worth anything. That's just counterproductive and asking for trouble.
    Well for the first point, those are two different scenarios: Windows 10 on phone has changed the UI a tad bit but it isn't a radical departure from what WP8.1 is. Windows 7 > Windows 8 however made people question whether or not it was even Microsoft making the OS. So it technically isn't the same "mistake", but... I'll humor you for a second. Even if they were the same mistake it's easier to "alienate" a few million people that make up 3% of the smartphone market than it is to shake up the entire PC industry. The former isn't even set in stone as we can still help shape it, the latter is already said and done which is why Windows 10 exists in the first place. So relax and make sure you're a part of the insider program!

    As for the second point... Apple seems to be doing great with a consistent UI across their computing family.
    01-22-2015 10:54 AM
  24. tiziano27's Avatar
    I want to start a new thread about this but I think it is too soon but after reading most of the threads in last 12-18 hours, I think we will need a mass movement. We will need this as in nicely articulated feedback as soon as we grab the preview on our phones. We need to let Microsoft know this isn't the "user experience" we want even though they are showering us with so many new features we've been moaning about. For some reason, the way they've repeated on and on that "you insiders" made it happen, I want to believe, they will hear us.

    Can we here at WPCentral, have a team of dedicated Moderators, Ambassadors and Community members active on social media - lobby for active voting? I think we can do this. I will start this thread later once the preview hits our handsets, but basically a massive thread, with a new poll everyday (heck even a new sub-forum) with new thread, new poll every week - about a feature people are happy or unhappy about and then we decide to create a feedback that gets massively voted up or down and we keep prompting and promoting fellow users.

    I think we are the biggest WP community since its birth and now is the time we should actively participate to have the WP as we know it. Remember these, universal apps are very early betas and will change, if we are persistent.

    Agree? No?
    I don't agree. No!

    In that case another group of moderators, ambassadors, famous personalities like the pope and King Jong Un, should be formed to lobby in support of these good changes that Microsoft is implementing.

    I'm part of this community, don't try to be my voice and say things I don't agree.
    rockstarzzz likes this.
    01-22-2015 11:06 AM
  25. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    From what I have seen, I don't think we have that good of an idea about W10 for Phone at this point. If they release a video detailing the phone specifics the way they did for PC, we might know more.
    They did.
    01-22-2015 11:09 AM
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