12-05-2016 10:12 AM
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  1. luke_f's Avatar
    Guys, you do realize that a full desktop windows version will consume about 20GB of HDD space, right? Plus, it uses a whole lot more CPU power all the time, for all those background processes a phone does not even have (on purpose). It would be a total waste of HDD space and resources to try to run this on a phone. Even though there have been big improvements, Windows still eats quite a lot of resources. Just compare battery lifetime on a Macbook to the same device running Windows. When running Windows, the battery life drops at least 30%, compared to what it has on OSX. And then there is the Intel CPU that is also much less efficient, compared to the highly optimized ARM cores.

    Not saying that this would not be cool. But it's not going to happen, for various reasons.
    02-07-2015 01:31 PM
  2. CJ Thunder's Avatar
    I was thinking that MS should release 2 flagships like the Surface series.
    There should be 2 variants:
    The Standard One:
    Qualcomm SD 810 OctaCore 64-bit processor
    32GB onboard storage
    20MP camera and 5/8MP selfie cam
    3/4GB of RAM
    5" FHD/QHD Display(1080p/2k)
    3050mAH Battery with Quickcharge 2.0
    An evolved design from Lumia 930

    The Revolutionary Pro One:
    Intel Atom Quadcore 64-bit or an ULV i5/i3 series processor (x86 architecture).
    64GB onboard storage
    20MP primary cam and 8MP selfie cam
    4/8GB of RAM
    5.5/6" QHD Display(2k)
    4080mAH Battery
    An evolved design from Surface Pro 3.
    MicroHDMI 2.0 support with output to 4k.
    Now the Revolutionary side:
    Since the device runs on x86, the device should be running a modded desktop/phone hybrid variant of Windows10. I mean when you use is as a phone, it runs on the phone UI. But If you give an output via HDMI, and connect a keyboard and mouse via Bluetooth or a dock, the device gives an output as a fully capable desktop OS, able to run legacy apps. The desktop variant will be in sync the phone apps and tasks.

    It should be the merger of the gap between desktops and mobile devices. It will bring in a new era of devices where portability and productivity is in harmony.

    If MS would ever do something like this, They would make windows10 an even cooler experience. And since the pro variant runs on x86, we could finally stream xbox one games onto it.

    Comment your thoughts on it.
    The pro is exactly what I want. Throw in a gpu booster, ssd, dock work station. Boom.
    02-07-2015 01:35 PM
  3. Elitis's Avatar
    Guys, you do realize that a full desktop windows version will consume about 20GB of HDD space, right? Plus, it uses a whole lot more CPU power all the time, for all those background processes a phone does not even have (on purpose). It would be a total waste of HDD space and resources to try to run this on a phone. Even though there have been big improvements, Windows still eats quite a lot of resources. Just compare battery lifetime on a Macbook to the same device running Windows. When running Windows, the battery life drops at least 30%, compared to what it has on OSX. And then there is the Intel CPU that is also much less efficient, compared to the highly optimized ARM cores.

    Not saying that this would not be cool. But it's not going to happen, for various reasons.
    That's more because Apple controls almost everything that goes into a Macbook and can optimize them extremely well. Windows can run on a lot of different configurations, all made by and reliant on several different manufacturers, which makes it extremely difficult to optimize efficiently. Also, Intel CPUs aren't exactly less efficient than ARM CPUs. Processors using RISC don't have nearly as good performance as CISC processors do, so naturally battery life is better. So, you can't really compare Windows and Mac OS X, or x86 and ARM in either cases.

    For everyone wanting a Pocket PC, you guys should really check out Ubuntu Touch. It does exactly what you guys are talking about. Its as close to a dockable Windows Phone with desktop-computer specs as we're going to get for a while.
    02-07-2015 04:34 PM
  4. luke_f's Avatar
    That's more because Apple controls almost everything that goes into a Macbook and can optimize them extremely well.
    I do not agree. Apple has put a lot of work into their latest OS to help with power efficiency, and these tricks have nothing to do with the specific hardware. They were more efficient than Windows before, and with OSX Maverick they made one more huge step forward, adding ~30% more battery lifetime. Most of this comes through what is called "time coalescing". Usually the CPU is constantly woken up from sleep mode by the dozens background processes which all run on their own update timers. Now OSX "batches" these updates, to run a lot of them at once, and then go back to sleep. So both CPU, GPU and IO system / HDD can remain in sleep mode for a much longer time, which saves a lot of power (constantly waking up and putting the CPU back to sleep is really bad for the efficiency). This is a very clever strategy to reduce idle power usage and works very well with the latest Intel CPUs. Additionally, they drastically reduce resources for processes that are minimized or in the background (they even check transparency to power down windows that are hidden). This saves a lot of resources as well. Then there is RAM compression as, saving IO and thus resources when paging out memory to HDD. I think these were the three big areas of improvements to an already very efficient OSX. Some pretty clever tricks if you ask me. The same tricks could be used by Windows as well, they are not bound to specific hardware. But they are not used in Windows, not right now. I do not have a Mac and I am definitely not an Apple fanboy. But I am impressed by some aspects of their systems. OS efficiency is one of these areas. I really hope that MSFT will start working on that area again, once they have Windows 10 out...
    02-07-2015 05:09 PM
  5. bijak_riyandi's Avatar
    This thread alive again?
    I've put some thoughts about this matter and I think these factors will hinder phones running full Windows 10:

    1. Heat and battery
    Phones are usually bad in managing heat. Plus, running full Windows will make it worse. Even worse if you put up an nVidia or ATI GPU.
    And it's also worth noting that heat kills battery faster.

    2. Price
    Imagine how much "the Revolutionary Pro" with all that specs would be priced? My guess is it'll be more than USD 2k.
    With current condition of Windows Phone market share, it's very hard to see this phone selling well with that price tag.
    And that means more and more money loss for Microsoft...

    Not to mention that you need the extra docking station and/or a monitor to make use of the PC. Ain't nobody got time (and money) for that?

    3. Comfort
    Firstly, it's a phone. You won't plug it into a monitor or put it in the docking station for the majority of times.
    Then we will see the big wasted money-burner which is an x86 phone that will only be used as a PC for less than one-eighth of its usage time.

    Using a dock for a 6" phone sounds retarded. Even worse if it were 5.5". And with QHD resolution, you're going to have a bad time seeing letters in that screen.
    What legacy apps you want to see in a 6" monitor? None.

    We can all dream, but honestly I can't see this kind of device hit the market in the next 4 years...
    02-10-2015 10:24 AM
  6. WNxAshik's Avatar
    This thread alive again?
    I've put some thoughts about this matter and I think these factors will hinder phones running full Windows 10:

    1. Heat and battery
    Phones are usually bad in managing heat. Plus, running full Windows will make it worse. Even worse if you put up an nVidia or ATI GPU.
    And it's also worth noting that heat kills battery faster.

    2. Price
    Imagine how much "the Revolutionary Pro" with all that specs would be priced? My guess is it'll be more than USD 2k.
    With current condition of Windows Phone market share, it's very hard to see this phone selling well with that price tag.
    And that means more and more money loss for Microsoft...

    Not to mention that you need the extra docking station and/or a monitor to make use of the PC. Ain't nobody got time (and money) for that?

    3. Comfort
    Firstly, it's a phone. You won't plug it into a monitor or put it in the docking station for the majority of times.
    Then we will see the big wasted money-burner which is an x86 phone that will only be used as a PC for less than one-eighth of its usage time.

    Using a dock for a 6" phone sounds retarded. Even worse if it were 5.5". And with QHD resolution, you're going to have a bad time seeing letters in that screen.
    What legacy apps you want to see in a 6" monitor? None.

    We can all dream, but honestly I can't see this kind of device hit the market in the next 4 years...
    Well, Unless you get a facility, you wont know how important it becomes in your life. LIKE THE INTERNET

    The Dockable to a PC, Portable like a phone devices will soon define our future.

    AND he meant a dock to give options for HDMI OUT and USB slots. Not for a 6" monitor but for a 40" one. And the device supposedly only runs legacy apps when it has an HDMI out Display connected to it.
    02-27-2015 09:45 PM
  7. bijak_riyandi's Avatar
    Okay, I got that one wrong there.

    But ask yourself: how many hours will you put that phone on its dock compared to use it as a phone?
    How many days before the battery dies of heat?
    How many people will buy it, considering its primarily a phone with that kind of spec and OS?

    Unless I get a good answer to these, I don't think this kind of tech would come soon
    02-28-2015 12:21 AM
  8. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    CISC more efficient then RISC....lol

    You can't compare microarchitectures by just single product, they have different design goal.

    Do some google then you'll see RISC being used in supercomputers shows greater power than CISC CPUs.

    The microarchitecture is not even a point here.

    MSFT is never a fast-response organization. For more than four years the WP had came out, it never even make it adapted to anything rather than Qcom SoC. I couldn't see it expending its support list in mobile devices anytime soon.

    4GB/8GB RAM is also pointless, it's not a "must" for x64 SoC. Apple has demostrated it with a healthy package running by just 1GB RAM.

    needless to say about independant GPU.....just do some searching in how much these chips consume power and current battery technology before you make your wish list into StarTrek equipment list.

    HDMI output is also kind of a backward step to take when you see mirecast/airplay a very easy solution. I have a HTPC in my living room and I hate those cables....

    I agree that a good SPEC WP phone in good price is a must. Nokia and MSFT had released many overpriced/underspec devices in the past year(735:selling unsalable parts from 720?/830:S400 for a 8series device in 2014? terrible white balance, is there anyone not colorblind in MSFT?/535/635/435: why helping Qcom selling those low-end, out-dated performance SoCs KILLED by MTK SoCs? and their price....OMG) and they are so disappointed to even look at it (what's a point to get a suck 4~6series lumia when you can get a nice 2nd hand 920/ATIV S that kills those junk anyday in same price?). But expecting WP to gain market share by just top-end SPEC is just too geek to success. We don't even know what hardware we need to run win10 for phone comfortablely so it's hard to image a proper flapship would be like. I do think keep their good name in camera is the way to go, big sensor, nice lens, smart software. Stop using sensor less than 1/3" and use the name "pureview" to sell it, hate to see the way Sony plays the name "walkman" and "cybershot" in their feature phones but not putting any chips to really make it special ten years ago.

    A bit off-topic I guess.....=w= Basically anything with top-spec paring with android phone plus a killer camera will be a nice flagship phone for WP I think.
    sahib lopez likes this.
    03-02-2015 04:28 AM
  9. Grimlock's Avatar
    Do we really need a fully functional PC in our pockets? I know 4 years ago I thought that was the next logical step, and the dream was to be able to dock our phones into whatever screen and use it like a pc.

    But the game has changed because of the cloud, I have everything on onedrive and can access it any time from my windows phone or any PC or Mac I encounter. I used to use remote desktop all the time but now I have no need for it whatsoever. I know there are some users that would still want their phone to be able to function as their PC, but I think it is a small number of users and so this would be a niche product (a very cool product but still niche).
    03-02-2015 04:55 PM
  10. Italo Souza's Avatar
    Fingerprint would be cool in a flagship too :)
    Attached Thumbnails dayandnight.fw.png  
    03-02-2015 07:44 PM
  11. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    The Dockable to a PC, Portable like a phone devices will soon define our future.
    Have you ever heard about the ASUS PadFone family? Not seeing that going anywhere

    Have you ever watched ironman movie or the hololens preview? That's the future, did you see any docking concept there?

    The beauty of cloud is that you won't tie yourself up in just one machine but you can aeecss everything you need in anythine, any form.

    I can't image wearing a fit suit with a bulky phone in my pocket, I just can't
    Grimlock likes this.
    03-02-2015 09:52 PM
  12. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Have you ever heard about the ASUS PadFone family? Not seeing that going anywhere
    The entire Asus line hasn't made a dent in sales just like many other OEMs. Doesn't mean it's a bad idea. There have been other docking solutions in the past and have failed to gain traction but again, it doesn't mean they don't have merit. Poor execution does not translate to a bad idea.
    03-02-2015 09:58 PM
  13. Grimlock's Avatar
    The entire Asus line hasn't made a dent in sales just like many other OEMs. Doesn't mean it's a bad idea. There have been other docking solutions in the past and have failed to gain traction but again, it doesn't mean they don't have merit. Poor execution does not translate to a bad idea.
    It's not that itsbad idea, but I think it might just come to fruition in a slightly different way then we might see it now. Like with the Ironman example above, even though its fictional it demonstrates a good point, that a dockable solution is kind of 'primitive' in the sense that it's a physical connection.

    Rather then have to physically dock your phone, wouldn't it be simpler to just walk up to any screen/monitor you want and log in (fingerprint scanner or whatever)? All your data is in the cloud so anything from a tablet, HDTV, hololens, etc can be used whenever and wherever you need it.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    03-02-2015 11:03 PM
  14. WNxAshik's Avatar
    want to see if the surface phone would be like what I thought almost a couple of years back.
    12-05-2016 10:12 AM
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