03-24-2015 08:14 PM
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  1. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    agreed our choice...but are we going to get it???....or is it feasible.

    The only way they will even realise that they aren't doing the best thing ever is if there are threads on the user voice and people get voting. We have 6-8 months in our hands to be heard or at least get the discussion going and noticed. Someone from the team could well come in and explain us much better reasons for what they are doing.

    This is the most open Microsoft we've seen so as long as we are persistent, they love a dialogue!
    a5cent likes this.
    02-13-2015 05:10 PM
  2. Alain_A's Avatar
    I had a hard time getting both hands clearly in the shot :)

    WP7 and WP8 were all about simplicity. Simplicity means easy. Easy means all controls within thumb's reach. I benefit more than the next person from these design principles, but you don't need to be me to appreciate easy.
    that's right....I don't think MS is thinking that way....or even if they realize it...of course to me it doesn't matter where the burger is cause I use 2 hand most of the time..

    At some point I was using the Note 3 with a stylus that was sweeeeet...Stylus should exist in all phone...
    02-13-2015 05:13 PM
  3. Alain_A's Avatar
    The only way they will even realise that they aren't doing the best thing ever is if there are threads on the user voice and people get voting. We have 6-8 months in our hands to be heard or at least get the discussion going and noticed. Someone from the team could well come in and explain us much better reasons for what they are doing.

    This is the most open Microsoft we've seen so as long as we are persistent, they love a dialogue!
    yes, that would be awesome to get the idea behind it...
    02-13-2015 05:16 PM
  4. Alain_A's Avatar
    also that is why they need to release for the rest of us that doesn't have the preview yet on our phone for testing
    02-13-2015 05:22 PM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Stylus should exist in all phone...
    Steve Jobs is spinning in his grave.
    a5cent and sahib lopez like this.
    02-13-2015 06:47 PM
  6. Alain_A's Avatar
    Steve Jobs is spinning in his grave.
    LOL he is going to get dizzy...

    why??????????? was he against?
    02-13-2015 06:52 PM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    LOL he is going to get dizzy...

    why??????????? was he against?
    From Entrepreneur:

    Steve Jobs famously snubbed the lowly stylus. He was a fingers man.

    “Who wants a stylus?” Jobs asked sarcastically when he introduced the world’s first iPhone at Macworld 2007. “You have to get ‘em and put ‘em away and you lose ‘em and -- yech!” Nobody wants a stylus. So, let’s not use a stylus.”
    02-13-2015 07:00 PM
  8. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    Really? Are we already complaining? For the love of who ever you love, that is call -change- and everybody does it for the better or worse and as I see it is for the better.
    tiziano27 likes this.
    02-13-2015 07:11 PM
  9. Alain_A's Avatar
    From Entrepreneur:

    Steve Jobs famously snubbed the lowly stylus. He was a fingers man.

    “Who wants a stylus?” Jobs asked sarcastically when he introduced the world’s first iPhone at Macworld 2007. “You have to get ‘em and put ‘em away and you lose ‘em and -- yech!” Nobody wants a stylus. So, let’s not use a stylus.”
    oh, was he right?...I did enjoy it when I had my Note 3
    02-13-2015 07:11 PM
  10. runamuck83's Avatar
    So...WinPhone as it is now is pretty much non existent in smartphone market share. Microsoft is trying to make something amazing across many devices while being familiar to majority of everyday users.... And the 4% of phone buyers are going to dictate to them not to change anything about how it works?

    In the grand scheme, this is the most insignificant change, but one that could go a long way with gaining more familiarity of the 96% of the other smartphone market share users.

    HAMBURGER ALL THE WAY!
    tiziano27 and Jorge Holguin like this.
    02-13-2015 07:25 PM
  11. Alain_A's Avatar
    "HAMBURGER ALL THE WAY! "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ you think so!
    white_Shadoww likes this.
    02-13-2015 07:28 PM
  12. runamuck83's Avatar
    Along with the 96% of the rest of the population of smartphone users. Time to admit defeat. Remember the old saying? If you can't beat em, join em...
    02-13-2015 07:42 PM
  13. Alain_A's Avatar
    that's right....join them
    02-13-2015 07:47 PM
  14. runamuck83's Avatar
    I will be. With Win10 on my next Lumia 830
    02-13-2015 07:51 PM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    From Entrepreneur:

    Steve Jobs famously snubbed the lowly stylus. He was a fingers man.

    “Who wants a stylus?” Jobs asked sarcastically when he introduced the world’s first iPhone at Macworld 2007. “You have to get ‘em and put ‘em away and you lose ‘em and -- yech!” Nobody wants a stylus. So, let’s not use a stylus.”
    I don't know if he was targeting WM with that statement, but a stylus was necessary with WM devices, at least the ones I had. They barely worked without a stylus.
    02-13-2015 08:00 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    Personally I think team "consistent experience" won. They need WP10 to behave like Win10 so Windows users get a single UI language. The alternative is to bring pivots yo the desktop, but that might not work well. I do think pivots were awesome though. :(
    The idea that WP10 must look like or behave exactly like W10 is incorrect. If Microsoft believes this themselves, then they have already failed, and it will fail in the market too. Ultimately, no matter how hard one tries, we can not provide the exact same UI experience on a 24" screen and a 4" screen without both being mediocre. With Windows 8.0 MS tried to bring a tablet-like UI to the desktop. We saw how poorly that worked out. If MS is hoping that the opposite approach will fair better, they are in for a disappointment. I'm sure they know better.
    What MS needs are three things:

    • A consistent UI design language specifically optimized for phones
    • A consistent UI design language specifically optimized for tablets and larger screens
    • A consistent mapping between the two

    On a tablet, we will often have navigational controls that are always visible on the left or right side of the screen. On a smartphone, those navigational controls will be hidden in a side menu. That is an example of one such mapping. In Touch Office for tablets, most commands are displayed in a ribbon along the top of the screen. On a phone, those commands will apparently be hidden in the bottom app bar which needs to be opened to access them. That's another such mapping. My point is that MS is already fully aware that these "experiences" can't be identical. That's why such mappings already exist. That's why the notion that either WP had to lose the pivot control, or the pivot control had to be introduced to larger screens, is also incorrect. This requires just another mapping. I can think of a few ways a pivot control might be mapped to a larger screen. No big deal...

    I don't know why MS decided to drop the pivot. I have a few hunches, but this "consistent experience" argument definitely isn't one of them. It also strikes me as somewhat ironic, considering how inconsistent the UI currently appears.
    Last edited by a5cent; 02-13-2015 at 10:34 PM. Reason: spelling
    02-13-2015 08:02 PM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    Sadly, that is the case. They gave it a good effort, but people WANT features, and with features come compromises.

    It still looks distinctly WP overall though. You won't mistake it for any other phone in the OS part. But the apps are losing their distictive UI rules.
    So far I just don't see it. Can someone point me to the features W10M is demonstrating, that requires a radically different UI, and explain why that wouldn't have been possible to achieve in a cleaner way?

    There are a lot of smart people taking this position, so I'm inclined to think I may be missing something... I just don't see what...
    02-13-2015 08:10 PM
  18. noelito's Avatar
    ok when we say PIVOTS are we referring to the 4 bottom nav buttons that used to be present everywhere during the the wp7 days that are slowly being eradicated? because yes I miss pivots too and the ellipses that went along with it, sometimes I wonder what happened to the wp7 design team, did they take them all to the back and shoot them?
    02-13-2015 08:25 PM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    ok when we say PIVOTS are we referring to the 4 bottom nav buttons that used to be present everywhere during the the wp7 days that are slowly being eradicated? because yes I miss pivots too and the ellipses that went along with it, sometimes I wonder what happened to the wp7 design team, did they take them all to the back and shoot them?
    No. That is the bottom command bar. This is the pivot:
    https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...v=vs.105).aspx
    02-13-2015 08:28 PM
  20. TheCudder's Avatar
    I don't know why MS decided to drop the pivot. I have a few hunches, but this "consistent experience" argument definitely isn't one of them. It also strikes me as somewhat ironic, considering how inconsistent the UI currently appears.
    1) Pivoting brings an awkward experience on the Desktop and MSFT wants users to WANT to use WinRT apps on non-touch devices.
    2) No way to implement the popular "swipe to delete/archive" type actions with pivoting.
    3) Easier porting of apps from Android and iOS with fewer UI design changes.
    02-13-2015 08:40 PM
  21. EssThree's Avatar
    I honestly don't care about design identity. If something isn't working, then change it. I don't mind the "hamburger" button. I think it's fine, and everyone knows what it is, so it's a good addition/change. What I don't like is the arrangement and layout of the elements on the screen, placing things out of reach because "That's how Android does it" is change for the sake of change, not improvement.

    Microsoft need to have a mix of what's recognisable and what's easy to use. PLUS, you have to keep in mind that even though millions of people are familiar with the way Android does it, many billions more are NOT. I feel like MS should be focusing on winning over new users by making the operating system easy and intuitive, not just aping how Android does it in an attempt to steal customers from Google. It's stuff like that which will push people straight into Apple's arms.

    I hope what I'm trying to get across makes sense.
    rockstarzzz and a5cent like this.
    02-13-2015 08:42 PM
  22. runamuck83's Avatar
    To say they're making winphone just like Android simply because of a button is ludicrous
    TheCudder likes this.
    02-13-2015 08:55 PM
  23. DoctorSaline's Avatar
    I'm not even sure it's for the sake of superior functionality. In Windows 8/8.1 they forced phone/tablet UI on computers which didn't work out well for them. Now they are forcing desktop UI(top menus and hamburgers which have become industry standard) on phones/tablets in the name of consistent UI experience across all device types with windows 10. This is just change for the sake of change. What they need is functionality richness but not at the cost of design language that made WP unique in the first place while having data sync with different device types and continuity option for picking off tasks from any Windows 10 device. Like it has been said in these forums before, Microsoft shouldn't enforce single design language on all device categories, instead they should deliver consistent UI experiences among any given device type. Now the UI they have for Windows 10 that will run on 8" or greater hybrids/PCs is beautiful, but they need not enforce it on devices under 8"(phablets/phones) and should focus on delivering more functionality without deviating from the design language too much that made WP so unique and awesome in the first place.
    02-13-2015 09:18 PM
  24. white_Shadoww's Avatar
    Consistency and conventions are important, but providing the best ui for the form factor is also important.
    A familiar and delightful UI that makes the product more attractive in the stores is important, bur ergonomics and efficiency in daily use is also important.

    There is no correct UI, MS has to find a balance of objectives with trade offs. Some apps will have tabs(pivots), other apps like the Photos app shouldn't because the functions in the hamburger menu aren't frequently used. So, don't get to far into conclusions with one app.

    IMO, Metro was a total failure because It was an extreme.

    'Albums' is the function of Photos app that I use daily. And it is inside hamburger. Don't blame Metro for the failure. It was lack of features and apps and not the Metro. Metro was well received, and as far as I remember no web site actually said Metro was failure. Metro was well received by major tech sites and many persons, and hated only by those Android and Apple fanboys whom will never buy WP whatever we do because they love their OS so much.
    02-13-2015 09:33 PM
  25. raphok's Avatar
    how many occasion one uses one hand on their phone...if I am not driving then I still used 2 hand to work on my phone....
    eating a icecream, holding umbrella or a bag
    white_Shadoww and EssThree like this.
    02-13-2015 09:34 PM
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