Is W10P entering a pure features battle and losing its distinct design identity?

veigald

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When I bought my first WP device a few years back, one of the major reasons was the fantastically well thought through design and consistency of it. The pivot control part of Metro was a key element in this, with swipeable tabs/pages instead of dropdowns/similar. It was one of the key elements I showed to people when demoing my phone and everyone agrees it's a great feature, setting WP apart from the rest design-wise.

Now that seems to completely have changed, with hamburger menus in the top left corner seemingly being a new standard. Not only is this bad for the OS design superiority and identity of WP, it's also bad for usability. The main reason iPhones have been small screen only, is that navigation is on top. That makes it hard for most people to use one hand for navigation. Pivot control allows you to swipe left or right at any part of the screen, thus not needing to stretch up top or use both hands.

Is Microsoft really ditching pivot control guidelines for hamburger menus? Please say it isn't so.
 

rollindice

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i myself want to know same thing I love the ease of swipe left and right on any part of the screen, I haven't installed TP 10 but I've noticed a lot of what you're saying indeed in videos
 

realwarder

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Current TP 10 is a real mix of UI design. A lot of the new PC style is coming to the phone with a theme applied.

I'm sure it will evolve, but it does currently feel like it has 2 or 3 heads. Hopefully that will settle down quickly.
 

rockstarzzz

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Short answer is yes. Microsoft has caved in. We know "team features" won, "team uniqueness" lost when WP didn't cross 4% mark in 5 years!
 

anon(5325154)

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I can't agree more with the op's sentiments. From what I've seen the wp10 UI in its current state is an inconsistent mess. I know it's just the first preview, but what's there now is enough to raise some early alarms. I hope they'll listen to the true WP fans out there and bring back the thoughtful UI elements that made the OS a joy to use.
 

tgp

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From what I've seen the wp10 UI in its current state is an inconsistent mess.

Yes. And this is exactly what users here have complained about on Android for a long time. But know what? It goes along with features. There's little you cannot do with Android, while WP used to have comparatively few features, but with a very simplistic UI. Now as features are added it's becoming more complicated to use.

What we need is a simple UI without sacrificing functionality!
 

EBUK

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I like what I've seen so far. But until I have the chance to use the technical preview I know for certain.

If the hamburger menu is the price to pay for a more powerful OS, an OS that attracts the Android and iOS devs we need to port apps to WP, and an OS that increases market share, then I think it's a price worth paying.
 

MikeSo

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Short answer is yes. Microsoft has caved in. We know "team features" won, "team uniqueness" lost when WP didn't cross 4% mark in 5 years!

Sadly, that is the case. They gave it a good effort, but people WANT features, and with features come compromises.

It still looks distinctly WP overall though. You won't mistake it for any other phone in the OS part. But the apps are losing their distictive UI rules.
 

minus365

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There's loads of work to made it to the OS we all love since WP7. I'm bit afraid decision was made and win10 will be too much android style :/
 

bschiav

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I'm with most of you on this. And thought that consistency is great, and we should reserve judgement. And so I did. But when you actually try the preview, go to the photos app. This will give you an idea of the benchmark that most other apps will likely follow.

In practice, it is a major step back. And not just of the "it takes time to get used to" variety...it is a legit step back functionally. It's actually quite frustrating to use when you go to do something that you've always done and your mind gets tripped up; you then have to put your second hand on the device to use it. It seems minor, but you will know what I mean when you just try it out. Try not to think about it ahead of time...just "use" it.

The problem is...I don't think anyone really knows yet what the best solution may be...because pivots get clunky with the keyboard/mouse UX. I really think they needed to retain their metro design language for all MUI apps (Tablet and Phone). And go full hog on the distinction and toggle in Windows 10 for Tablet vs. Desktop mode...the keyboard/mouse constraints are bleeding into our touch only device usage scenarios and degrading that UX by a significant margin...
 

TheCudder

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Hamburger, hamburger, hamburger ---- I personally think Microsoft nailed it on the head wit the hamburger menu in WinRT apps & its new app UI design. I say this because it's basically the perfect layout to make WinRT apps make sense on the Desktop, which we need to happen badly to have any chance of getting more support for universal apps for the Desktop & Phone. Microsoft's plan was to make your phone's UI an "extension" of your Windows desktop, laptop & tablet by keeping the core of the user experience extremely similar and the hamburger icon works like the "File" button in Windows, users just know to tap or click it it to activate the app[lication] menu. Swyping through pivots with your thumb on a phone works fine, but not so much on a desktop or even a tablet --- seriously, for those of you who have non-touch laptops & desktops with Windows 8.x, how awkward do you feel scrolling your vertical mouse wheel to go through an app's horizontal content?

So how do you suppose Microsoft better create a similar experience across devices?

I will say, that Microsoft should include a gesture based action to activate the hamburger menu list. I'm happy to see Microsoft dialing back a bit on the "swype" crazed (and hidden) navigation that came with Windows 8.
 

TheCudder

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In practice, it is a major step back. And not just of the "it takes time to get used to" variety...it is a legit step back functionally. It's actually quite frustrating to use when you go to do something that you've always done and your mind gets tripped up; you then have to put your second hand on the device to use it. It seems minor, but you will know what I mean when you just try it out. Try not to think about it ahead of time...just "use" it.

Not attacking you --- but isn't this EXACTLY what happened from Windows 7 to Windows 8? But Windows lovers complained that users can't except changed and are stuck in their dumb ways?
 

rockstarzzz

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Anyone up for trying to voice this through uservoice? We could have a thread with links to uservoice aiming to explaining how screwed up and step backward this is. We have plenty of old veterans here for WP.
Sent from my Darth V.
 

anon(8032808)

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Personally I think team "consistent experience" won. They need WP10 to behave like Win10 so Windows users get a single UI language. The alternative is to bring pivots yo the desktop, but that might not work well. I do think pivots were awesome though. :(

I think this is the case. They want a universal experience across Windows 10, so the UI is being consistent ...from that standpoint.
 

bschiav

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Hamburger, hamburger, hamburger ---- I personally think Microsoft nailed it on the head wit the hamburger menu in WinRT apps & its new app UI design. I say this because it's basically the perfect layout to make WinRT apps make sense on the Desktop, which we need to happen badly to have any chance of getting more support for universal apps for the Desktop & Phone. Microsoft's plan was to make your phone's UI an "extension" of your Windows desktop, laptop & tablet by keeping the core of the user experience extremely similar and the hamburger icon works like the "File" button in Windows, users just know to tap or click it it to activate the app[lication] menu. Swyping through pivots with your thumb on a phone works fine, but not so much on a desktop or even a tablet --- seriously, for those of you who have non-touch laptops & desktops with Windows 8.x, how awkward do you feel scrolling your vertical mouse wheel to go through an app's horizontal content?

So how do you suppose Microsoft better create a similar experience across devices?

I will say, that Microsoft should include a gesture based action to activate the hamburger menu list. I'm happy to see Microsoft dialing back a bit on the "swype" crazed (and hidden) navigation that came with Windows 8.

Have you used it yet? So you agree it's not as good on a phone, but your saying it's a necessary evil? I think Microsoft agrees with you there.

I'm wondering if they move the same visual elements to the right hand side, and allow a swipe from right to open the hamburger...we'd have a better compromise for accessing app settings and options.

I still prefer gestures to toggle app function, i.e. search results between web/local/images/etc. You really ought to check the Win 10 preview to see what we're saying. See specifically the dialer, cortana search results, and the photos app.

How bad is it to retain one UX element in a phone app that "does not" carry over to other windows MUI apps? Would that level of inconsistency really be that bad on developers and consumers?
 
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bschiav

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Not attacking you --- but isn't this EXACTLY what happened from Windows 7 to Windows 8? But Windows lovers complained that users can't except changed and are stuck in their dumb ways?

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't catch what you had bolded. I meant that a different way, in that I know the function I want to perform. I can see it on the screen, I reach for it with my thumb, can't quite get there...fumble with my phone then put my left hand on the phone to pick up my right hand from the phone and hit the button. Now all this happens pretty quickly right? So it's not as exaggerated as this text reads. But those steps do occur..

I'm not saying that I'm resistant to change...I'm saying that performing the same function I've always performed, is in actuality much more inefficient than it was in the old UX. So how do we refine the UI so that it's visually similar to what will be provided on tablets/PC's, yet not detract so much from the phone UX?

As I get used to it, I won't fumble with my phone as much...but I still need those hand movements to get the action accomplished. That inefficiency will never go away, no matter how much I "get used to it."

I'll accept change...but not blindly...

I deleted the original text of this post, since that wasn't responding to what you asked.
 
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jojoe42

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I think this is the case. They want a universal experience across Windows 10, so the UI is being consistent ...from that standpoint.

Agreed. Pivots work well on touch, but not well on keyboard and mouse. Hamburger icons work okay on both (everyone knows what they do). Also you have to remember the main reason why Windows 8 was thrashed was because of its' unusual (read:not typical) design language. With Windows 10, MS wants people from ANY platform to be able to quickly pick up the UI in W10 and apply that to any version. If you don't make the OS familiar, you're going to scare some users.
 

Alain_A

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Agreed. Pivots work well on touch, but not well on keyboard and mouse. Hamburger icons work okay on both (everyone knows what they do). Also you have to remember the main reason why Windows 8 was thrashed was because of its' unusual (read:not typical) design language. With Windows 10, MS wants people from ANY platform to be able to quickly pick up the UI in W10 and apply that to any version. If you don't make the OS familiar, you're going to scare some users.

that's right
 

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