Is W10P entering a pure features battle and losing its distinct design identity?

[Alain_A]

"HAMBURGER ALL THE WAY! "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ you think so!

 

[runamuck83]

Along with the 96% of the rest of the population of smartphone users. Time to admit defeat. Remember the old saying? If you can't beat em, join em...

 

[Alain_A]

that's right....join them

 

[runamuck83]

I will be. With Win10 on my next Lumia 830

 

[tgp]

From Entrepreneur:

Steve Jobs famously snubbed the lowly stylus. He was a fingers man.

“Who wants a stylus?” Jobs asked sarcastically when he introduced the world’s first iPhone at Macworld 2007. “You have to get ‘em and put ‘em away and you lose ‘em and -- yech!” Nobody wants a stylus. So, let’s not use a stylus.”

I don't know if he was targeting WM with that statement, but a stylus was necessary with WM devices, at least the ones I had. They barely worked without a stylus.

 

[a5cent]

Personally I think team "consistent experience" won. They need WP10 to behave like Win10 so Windows users get a single UI language. The alternative is to bring pivots yo the desktop, but that might not work well. I do think pivots were awesome though.

The idea that WP10 must look like or behave exactly like W10 is incorrect. If Microsoft believes this themselves, then they have already failed, and it will fail in the market too. Ultimately, no matter how hard one tries, we can not provide the exact same UI experience on a 24" screen and a 4" screen without both being mediocre. With Windows 8.0 MS tried to bring a tablet-like UI to the desktop. We saw how poorly that worked out. If MS is hoping that the opposite approach will fair better, they are in for a disappointment. I'm sure they know better.
What MS needs are three things:

• A consistent UI design language specifically optimized for phones
• A consistent UI design language specifically optimized for tablets and larger screens
• A consistent mapping between the two

On a tablet, we will often have navigational controls that are always visible on the left or right side of the screen. On a smartphone, those navigational controls will be hidden in a side menu. That is an example of one such mapping. In Touch Office for tablets, most commands are displayed in a ribbon along the top of the screen. On a phone, those commands will apparently be hidden in the bottom app bar which needs to be opened to access them. That's another such mapping. My point is that MS is already fully aware that these "experiences" can't be identical. That's why such mappings already exist. That's why the notion that either WP had to lose the pivot control, or the pivot control had to be introduced to larger screens, is also incorrect. This requires just another mapping. I can think of a few ways a pivot control might be mapped to a larger screen. No big deal...

I don't know why MS decided to drop the pivot. I have a few hunches, but this "consistent experience" argument definitely isn't one of them. It also strikes me as somewhat ironic, considering how inconsistent the UI currently appears.

 

[a5cent]

Sadly, that is the case. They gave it a good effort, but people WANT features, and with features come compromises.

It still looks distinctly WP overall though. You won't mistake it for any other phone in the OS part. But the apps are losing their distictive UI rules.

So far I just don't see it. Can someone point me to the features W10M is demonstrating, that requires a radically different UI, and explain why that wouldn't have been possible to achieve in a cleaner way?

There are a lot of smart people taking this position, so I'm inclined to think I may be missing something... I just don't see what...

 

[noelito]

ok when we say PIVOTS are we referring to the 4 bottom nav buttons that used to be present everywhere during the the wp7 days that are slowly being eradicated? because yes I miss pivots too and the ellipses that went along with it, sometimes I wonder what happened to the wp7 design team, did they take them all to the back and shoot them?

 

[a5cent]

ok when we say PIVOTS are we referring to the 4 bottom nav buttons that used to be present everywhere during the the wp7 days that are slowly being eradicated? because yes I miss pivots too and the ellipses that went along with it, sometimes I wonder what happened to the wp7 design team, did they take them all to the back and shoot them?

No. That is the bottom command bar. This is the pivot:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/ff941098(v=vs.105).aspx

 

[TheCudder]

I don't know why MS decided to drop the pivot. I have a few hunches, but this "consistent experience" argument definitely isn't one of them. It also strikes me as somewhat ironic, considering how inconsistent the UI currently appears.

1) Pivoting brings an awkward experience on the Desktop and MSFT wants users to WANT to use WinRT apps on non-touch devices.
2) No way to implement the popular "swipe to delete/archive" type actions with pivoting.
3) Easier porting of apps from Android and iOS with fewer UI design changes.

 

[EssThree]

I honestly don't care about design identity. If something isn't working, then change it. I don't mind the "hamburger" button. I think it's fine, and everyone knows what it is, so it's a good addition/change. What I don't like is the arrangement and layout of the elements on the screen, placing things out of reach because "That's how Android does it" is change for the sake of change, not improvement.

Microsoft need to have a mix of what's recognisable and what's easy to use. PLUS, you have to keep in mind that even though millions of people are familiar with the way Android does it, many billions more are NOT. I feel like MS should be focusing on winning over new users by making the operating system easy and intuitive, not just aping how Android does it in an attempt to steal customers from Google. It's stuff like that which will push people straight into Apple's arms.

I hope what I'm trying to get across makes sense.

 

[runamuck83]

To say they're making winphone just like Android simply because of a button is ludicrous

 

[DoctorSaline]

I'm not even sure it's for the sake of superior functionality. In Windows 8/8.1 they forced phone/tablet UI on computers which didn't work out well for them. Now they are forcing desktop UI(top menus and hamburgers which have become industry standard) on phones/tablets in the name of consistent UI experience across all device types with windows 10. This is just change for the sake of change. What they need is functionality richness but not at the cost of design language that made WP unique in the first place while having data sync with different device types and continuity option for picking off tasks from any Windows 10 device. Like it has been said in these forums before, Microsoft shouldn't enforce single design language on all device categories, instead they should deliver consistent UI experiences among any given device type. Now the UI they have for Windows 10 that will run on 8" or greater hybrids/PCs is beautiful, but they need not enforce it on devices under 8"(phablets/phones) and should focus on delivering more functionality without deviating from the design language too much that made WP so unique and awesome in the first place.

 

[white_Shadoww]

Consistency and conventions are important, but providing the best ui for the form factor is also important.
A familiar and delightful UI that makes the product more attractive in the stores is important, bur ergonomics and efficiency in daily use is also important.

There is no correct UI, MS has to find a balance of objectives with trade offs. Some apps will have tabs(pivots), other apps like the Photos app shouldn't because the functions in the hamburger menu aren't frequently used. So, don't get to far into conclusions with one app.

IMO, Metro was a total failure because It was an extreme.

'Albums' is the function of Photos app that I use daily. And it is inside hamburger. Don't blame Metro for the failure. It was lack of features and apps and not the Metro. Metro was well received, and as far as I remember no web site actually said Metro was failure. Metro was well received by major tech sites and many persons, and hated only by those Android and Apple fanboys whom will never buy WP whatever we do because they love their OS so much.

 

[anon(5789608)]

how many occasion one uses one hand on their phone...if I am not driving then I still used 2 hand to work on my phone....

eating a icecream, holding umbrella or a bag

 

[fatclue_98]

I don't know if he was targeting WM with that statement, but a stylus was necessary with WM devices, at least the ones I had. They barely worked without a stylus.

In '07 the only touchscreens (phones) available were resistive so you were forced to use a stylus especially considering that a 3-1/2" display was very rare on phones. Except for BlackBerry, all touchscreen devices at that time used a stylus so I don't think it was a pot shot at WinMo. Maybe Symbian since Nokia was still the market share king.

 

[white_Shadoww]

And the lowercase headers are gone now. Those looked beautiful. Almost every aspect of WP is altered with something ugly in Windows 10.
Sent from my Lumia 920!

 

[a5cent]

1) Pivoting brings an awkward experience on the Desktop and MSFT wants users to WANT to use WinRT apps on non-touch devices.

Irrelevant. As already mentioned in post #70, there is no reason a pivot on a small screen can't be mapped to any other UI construct when running on a larger screen. That would represent just one of many UI mappings that we'll be dealing with either way.

2) No way to implement the popular "swipe to delete/archive" type actions with pivoting.

That there is "no way" is incorrect. Differentiating between edge-swipes and non edge-swipes would be one way. There are others. Still, I suspect you're right that this is part of the deal. Neither approach is perfect however. Both pivots and side panels/buttons have their own drawbacks. The solution would have been to add an alternative to pivots that fit in with the established design language, but cater towards that specific scenario. This scenario by itself just doesn't seem like a good enough reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

3) Easier porting of apps from Android and iOS with fewer UI design changes.

Irrelevant, at least in terms of porting apps. The cost savings this achieves just aren't notable. This is a theoretical argument at best. Last but not least, the cost of porting an app has never been the primary road block to closing the app gap, which is why it's practically of little importance.

 

[a5cent]

To say they're making winphone just like Android simply because of a button is ludicrous

Yes it is. That's also not what anybody but the most superficial of critics are saying. It's completely besides the point.

 

[tiziano27]

'Albums' is the function of Photos app that I use daily. And it is inside hamburger. Don't blame Metro for the failure. It was lack of features and apps and not the Metro. Metro was well received, and as far as I remember no web site actually said Metro was failure. Metro was well received by major tech sites and many persons, and hated only by those Android and Apple fanboys whom will never buy WP whatever we do because they love their OS so much.

According to Microsoft's telemetry of the WP7 app, 91% of the users only open the app to go to the camera roll.

http://www.windowscentral.com/91-percent-users-only-clicked-camera-roll-urging-photos-hub-redesign

It make sense to move functions that aren't frequently used to the hamburger menu, and get more space for content and a cleaner UI.
Probably in the mail app was the same.
Although, that doesn't mean that tabs/pivots are disallowed.

...
Metro was well received when It was presented 5 years ago, but things have changed since then.
Metro was a extreme reaction to skeuomorphism, the dominant trend at that time, and the design that the iPhone adopted by heart.
Material design and iOS7 are more balanced synthesis of the two approaches.

'Nobody' likes Metro anymore.