Is W10P entering a pure features battle and losing its distinct design identity?

Kevin Rush

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I prefer the modern and easy to use innovative modern user interface and design language of Windows Phone (not the haphazard windows 8.0/8.1) over the old tired chicklet icons we all had in the past. Yes, change is hard and scary for some people, especially at first, for the masses. Everyone must decide for themselves, follow and copy or improve and innovate.
 
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anon(5325154)

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We all know that Microsoft is a little slow, but five years should be enough to learn how to design a smartphone. If Microsoft insists with Metro and its inferior user experience, WP will die.
The competition in the smartphone market is increasing, not only Android and iOS are improving, new products are entering the market. The probability of surviving with an inferior product like WP is zero.

If we can't beat them let's join them, is that it?

Let's not kid ourselves, after 5 years we're not going to be converting any significant number of Android/iOS users to the platform with a copycat UI. As for new users, when they are presented with 2 OS that have similar look and feel, how are they going to choose? Android has a larger user base and app base, the choice will be obvious.

As you say Android and iOS are improving, which is more the reason MS should not throw everything away and start again from scratch. They should embrace the high points of what Metro has to offer (style and usability) and improve upon them.
 

theefman

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Judging by the way Microsoft apps are being used, or at least downloaded, on Android and iOS it would seem as though users like what they see. The choice to have a background on Windows 10 for Phone with few, many or none of the live tiles is especially welcome. Metro lovers can have all the tiles they want and those being appeased can have a clean start screen. If that's not enough to win over some converts, I don't know what else they could do. Even the most ardent anti-MS bloggers praise the fluid operation of the OS but almost every one of them hates the tiles. Bada Boom, Bada Bing!



Right but the Microsoft apps on ios and android conform to those platforms UI guidelines so its more a case of the functionality being the draw rather than Microsoft's UI. So if Windows 10 is just more of the same what's the attraction for these users? And with less of what WP users like about the platform what's their incentive to stay?

As you say Android and iOS are improving, which is more the reason MS should not throw everything away and start again from scratch.

This is another key point, ios and android keep improving by building on what they've done before while Microsoft keeps restarting from scratch which leaves them perpetually catching up. They should stick to what their platform represents and build on that not tear it down and start over yet again.
 

tiziano27

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If we can't beat them let's join them, is that it?

Let's not kid ourselves, after 5 years we're not going to be converting any significant number of Android/iOS users to the platform with a copycat UI. As for new users, when they are presented with 2 OS that have similar look and feel, how are they going to choose? Android has a larger user base and app base, the choice will be obvious.

The current situation is unsustainable, Microsoft is losing $400 million per quarter and selling just 10 million devices. People don't like WP, marketing spending and low prices aren't enough to make them buy the product.
People is not choosing WP because of Metro, sales in the high-end segment are insignificant. Most sales are cheap phones that work fine in low end hardware.

It's difficult to enter in mature markets, but there is a good opportunity in emerging markets. However, Metro is not good for that strategy, the design is unfamiliar for the low-end segment.
If Tizen becomes the alternative to Android in the segment where the iPhone doesn't compete, WP is done.

...
It's a good time to change course with WP. It's Windows 10, the big jump from W8. Apps have to reconditioned to become Universal. And more important, It's probably the last chance for WP.
 

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white_Shadoww

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The current situation is unsustainable, Microsoft is losing $400 million per quarter and selling just 10 million devices. People don't like WP, marketing spending and low prices aren't enough to make them buy the product.
People is not choosing WP because of Metro, sales in the high-end segment are insignificant. Most sales are cheap phones that work fine in low end hardware.

It's difficult to enter in mature markets, but there is a good opportunity in emerging markets. However, Metro is not good for that strategy, the design is unfamiliar for the low-end segment.
If Tizen becomes the alternative to Android in the segment where the iPhone doesn't compete, WP is done.

...
It's a good time to change course with WP. It's Windows 10, the big jump from W8. Apps have to reconditioned to become Universal. And more important, It's probably the last chance for WP.


Okay.. Agree with you. But can you show the statistics where it shows WP is failing because of UI and not because of lack of apps or quality of apps?
 

fatclue_98

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^^I don't know what part of the world you're in but in the US, salespeople don't even show WP devices so how would anybody know it's different?


Sent from my bitchin' Lumia 2520
 

wrm1

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It was because of those differences that people enjoyed it. It was refreshing compared to the other options (webOS aside).
 

Dinu Ciobanu

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Well at least in east Europe where I am, if I say to someone how nice WP is, I always get same answer ... Uhh I don't know, how to even use it ...
( but yeah, being different is what got me into WP wagon since wp 7.5 age, oh yes and fluidity)
 

colinkiama

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It's lack of apps. The fact that it's different actually draws people in. As long as they keep one-handibility in W10 then I'm ok with it. I never realised how smart Microsoft were with the UI until the Windows 10 preview.
 

anon(5348756)

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I would caution us away from the dramatic tone. I've used the Win10 preview for phones and yes, it looks different but it's still very much the Windows phone system I've come to love. In fact it looks more polished and elegant, even in its current unfinished state. OK, so we're changing pivots for hamburger menus, big deal. The design language remains largely unaffected and if it'll make the experience better overall, so be it.

People have to learn to let go accept that NOTHING stays the same, everything evolves. Win10 for phones will evolve, and it will be different, and most likely it'll be better thanks to MS's years of experience, not worse.

Move on with the times I say. No point on clinging to horse carriages when there's Teslas these days.
 

white_Shadoww

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I today saw it on my friend's Lumia 730 as it is not yet available for my 920. All the menu placement on top is the worst thing they have done. Renders the 730 unusable with one hand. And I am not supposed to use my both hands for a simple thing as handling the phone. From 8.1 to 10 is such a big downgrade. Before I tried it, I was just upset for Metro. But after using it, seems that the issue is pretty much beyond that. Desktop UI on a phone is a completely idiotic idea. For ex. If I have to tap speed dial in the phone app, I fear I may never use it because it is cumbersome to stretch hand and press a button. Pivot is much more functional yet beautiful.
sent from my LUMIA 920
 

colinkiama

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why its Microsoft using hamburgers, there is nothing wrong with the 3 dots, don't you guys agree. They should just replace the dots icon with a hamburger if Microsoft really want a hamburger icon. That way, everyone would be happy, don't you guys agree?

Sent from my awesome Lumia 735
 

Laura Knotek

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I don't see what the fuss is about hamburgers vs dots. As long as it works that's all that matters to me.

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk
 

manicottiK

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I don't see what the fuss is about hamburgers vs dots. As long as it works that's all that matters to me.
Excluding the folks complaining because it's fun to complain or because they aren't good with any kind of change, most of the argument has been around reachability, menu content, and loss of uniqueness. A few folks who are more into user experience issues have also raised the issues of function discoverability, general reachability, and changes in navigational models.

The reachability issue can be addressed in a bunch of ways, including edge swiping, but another reachability issue is raised by shrinking the headers so that actionable content begins higher on the page. (Fun test: look at how quickly you can one-handedly access the jump lists of People than the all programs list -- this is because the People app, even with smaller headers, pushes the content down by having your picture at the top while the apps list starts all the way at the top.)

There isn't yet consensus in the developer community about what should and shouldn't go in a hamburger menu panel. (Is it lesser used items, like those that in WP8 apps appear at the bottom of the app menu? Is it settings? Is it main app nav like in the Facebook app?) Even Microsoft hasn't been consistent in how its apps use the side panel so far. Of course, there are still several months to sort this out and produce guidance documentation.

The full-page side wiping to change pano/pivot tabs is nice because it lets users swipe from anywhere. On the down side, it also prevents apps and lots of built-in controls from using sideways motions. A way around this might be to make the app bar at the bottom swipe aware so that it passes side swipes up to the visible pano/pivot/tab control. (I don't actually think that this is practical and it's certainly not discoverable.)

The biggest change as I see it is in how hamburger menus as navigational controls will change the app experience. Right now, app flow is fairly straightforward in that users move deeper into an app by tapping items on a list and then back out with the Back key. If the hamburger panel includes main navigation, it would be easy to jump from function to function, creating loops of pages. This hasn't been the mobile model in the past, as least not for WP.

One final thought, the introduction of hamburgers doesn't have to mean that every app needs one. Maybe the guidance will be that hamburgers are for certain kinds of apps while others stick with a simpler nav model. We'll see.
 

manicottiK

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Just change the dots icon to a hamburger icon. Everyone wins
Only if we all think that a hamburger menu is supposed to hold up to four buttons and up to five(ish) menu items. The "hamburger tab" that's in the Facebook app is a totally different kind of beast with links to different parts of the app.

The bulk of the fight about hamburgers so far has been about what they are. Frankly, if the user community and the developer community ARE NOT ACTUALLY SURE about what's supposed to go inside a hamburger panel, then maybe there isn't enough consensus to assume that users automatically know how to use them. (How can we know how to use it when we don't yet know what it's for?) This makes me think that the only thing that everyone thinks should go inside the hamburger panel is "seldom-used stuff that won't fit elsewhere." In that case, we might as well just call it "miscellaneous."
 

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