02-23-2015 09:25 AM
153 123 ...
tools
  1. EssThree's Avatar
    Assuming right handed use:
    thumb-zones-lineup.png
    photos-windows-10-scn.jpg
    Just sayin'.
    02-14-2015 06:31 AM
  2. Torcher Death's Avatar
    This has been the main argument against the hamburger menu as for the position of the ellipses, its a nice spot for popping the thumb...

    I would love to send a feedback against this, but sadly no 10 for my phone yet : (
    Gautam Kabiraj and LTTG like this.
    02-14-2015 07:06 AM
  3. xandros9's Avatar
    not just Microsoft, to everyone!
    02-14-2015 07:22 AM
  4. someone2639's Avatar
    Only put hamburgers in small phones!
    02-14-2015 07:29 AM
  5. Wevenhuis's Avatar
    Assuming right handed use:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just sayin'.
    Interesting topography of the finger map on the iphone screen. Comparing my lumia 1520 to the iphone six though, the map seems a little off. I think it depends how you hold a six inch device in my hand. But I would say for how winodws phone currently works with with the lumia 1520 the natural is more to the right, the ow in the lower right corner would probably be more orange, and everythings above the top half of the screen would almost literally be dark orange and red.

    But I like this concrete expample. I wander if the average user also thinks about one handed use with their smartphones.
    EssThree likes this.
    02-14-2015 07:52 AM
  6. mhc48's Avatar
    What happened to your other hand? Have you tried pulling it out of your..... pocket? Most people type with two thumbs and seem both able and comfortable using their second hand. Considering how comparatively infrequently one needs to access menu items on a hamburger menu, I just can't see this as a big problem. And even less so for people who want big screen phones and will be using both hands to hold and manipulate it without dropping it.

    Alternatively, since voice recognition typing works so astonishingly well in Win 10, and Hey Cortana in Denim, maybe a way around this problem for those who are so exercised by it would be for Microsoft to enable a vocal "Open Hamburger" command. It would open the hamburger menu and then accept a second command to pick a choice (similar to the way Xbox 360 does to shut it down: "Xbox Settings> Turn off> Yes" ,
    RumoredNow, MDK22, Skamath and 6 others like this.
    02-14-2015 08:25 AM
  7. manicottiK's Avatar
    Building on this, I've re-labeled each screen with its size rather than it's iPhone model and superimposed it on the Windows 10 Photos app screen. Below that is the same overlay, but placed upon the Windows Phone 8 Photos app.
    fingers-photos.jpg
    Right-justifying the app bar in W10 does make it more difficult for right-handed folks to reach those functions. The "cancel" button at the top right of the W10 shot isn't necessarily a problem because the hardware back key does the same thing. (I do see that textual "cancel" button as a bad harbinger of textual "back" buttons to come.)

    [Warning: thread hijack in progress. I'm sorry to announce that I'm about to complain about hamburger menus and navigational models in a thread that's primarily about reach. The OP can cut off this line of discussion if he wants to focus on reach issues.]

    The bigger problem for me remains that the navigational model is changing so dramatically and for worse, I believe. It's not so much that pivots or panos were super amazing, but rather than the panels that they contained were part of a comprehensive page. With swiping replaced by choosing a new panel/page from an out-of-reach hamburger menu, this all but ruins the idea behind the Back button. Effectively, in this navigational pattern, folks won't "go back" anymore, they'll "go forward" to the same page that they just viewed.

    For example, start the Photos app in WP8 and swipe around so that you view All, Albums, and Favorites; then press the Back key -- since you've only been in one "place" you are taken out of the app. Now do it in W10, but use the hamburger menu to move from Collection to Albums, to Folders, to Settings; then press the Back key -- since each of the hamburger choices was a "place" you are back to the Folders page. Use the hamburger to choose Collection, Albums, Folders, and Settings again and then start pressing Back -- on your way out, you'll pass by some pages twice.

    What had been a single path in and out of an app has been replaced with random access. I understand why some folks want the power of direct access, but it can easily lead to a spaghetti UX. We all hate websites that seem circuitous. If this UX were a telephone call instead of a telephone app, we'd call it "voice menu hell."
    02-14-2015 08:29 AM
  8. manicottiK's Avatar
    What happened to your other hand? Have you tried pulling it out of your..... pocket? Most people type with two thumbs and seem both able and comfortable using their second hand.
    It's in my pocket because it's 19 degrees out AND because I don't actually need to type anything while using the Photos app. There are cases where two hands might be called for, but looking at pictures or making a phone call shouldn't require that much.

    Considering how comparatively infrequently one needs to access menu items on a hamburger menu, I just can't see this as a big problem.
    Ahh, the problem is that the new app style does not make hamburger use infrequent. Look at the Photos app -- the hamburger is used to change amongst the pages that used to be tabs. Everyone holding on to the idea that hamburgers are infrequently used panels for adjusting settings needs to drop that view -- hamburgers are now for navigation, not just for settings. This, combined with bad placement, is the actual problem.

    Alternatively, since voice recognition typing works so astonishingly well in Win 10...
    I'm going to assume that that's sarcasm.
    EssThree, F3rzz, theefman and 6 others like this.
    02-14-2015 08:35 AM
  9. TheCudder's Avatar
    L
    Most people type with two thumbs and seem both able and comfortable using their second hand. Considering how comparatively infrequently one needs to access menu items on a hamburger menu, I just can't see this as a big problem. And even less so for people who want big screen phones and will be using both hands to hold and manipulate it without dropping it.
    I personally never type with two hands since we finally got "swype" (Word Flow). Swiping in from the left edge of the screen falls into the "Natural" area....EASIEST AND MOST INTUITIVE FIX. Plus it's a well known gesture. As for the menu list, maybe a half menu height that remains in the "natural" half of the screen phone.

    large_smartphones4.png
    Last edited by TheCudder; 02-14-2015 at 09:11 AM.
    02-14-2015 08:45 AM
  10. muvig's Avatar
    MS please listen to the people.
    02-14-2015 09:02 AM
  11. mhc48's Avatar
    You need to use the photo app when you are outside in 19 degrees MannicottiK ? And you can take one hand out but not the other for two seconds??? Plus in Win 10 I can scroll through virtually all my photos with my thumb (Albums and Folders aren't even available yet). And if it's really cold or your other hand is busy when you want to make a phone call you can make it with Hey Cortana.

    It's not that I can't see your point, I just don't think it's such a big deal and there are so many easy alternative workarounds. I used to hate the ellipsis dots, but got used to them. I think we'll all get used to the hamburger menu too.

    I'm going to assume that that's sarcasm.
    Not at all, I think it works great. And I'm amazed at how fast it works and many words it will accept. Or that it remains open listening after I finish one thought and compose another. What have been your problems with it? And what do you think of the idea of an "Open Hamburger" or "Open Menu" vocal command (on phones with more than 512k RAM, obviously)
    02-14-2015 09:09 AM
  12. raycpl's Avatar
    I personally never type with two hands since we finally got "swype" (Word Flow). Swiping in from the left edge of the screen falls into the "Natural" area....EASIEST AND MOST INTUITIVE FIX. Plus it's a well known gesture.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You speak the truth. Most of the time I use only my right hand. The bottom of the 920 rest on my little finger, the back rest on fingers (not touching the palm) and the THUMB does all the work.
    It's a bit of a stretch on a 1520...
    EssThree likes this.
    02-14-2015 09:17 AM
  13. JamesDax's Avatar
    You have it. So send it.
    02-14-2015 09:23 AM
  14. rhapdog's Avatar
    Interesting topography of the finger map on the iphone screen. Comparing my lumia 1520 to the iphone six though, the map seems a little off. I think it depends how you hold a six inch device in my hand. But I would say for how winodws phone currently works with with the lumia 1520 the natural is more to the right, the ow in the lower right corner would probably be more orange, and everythings above the top half of the screen would almost literally be dark orange and red.

    But I like this concrete expample. I wander if the average user also thinks about one handed use with their smartphones.
    I think the topography of the finger map is going to change "per user", because everyone has a bit different shaped hands, fingers, thumbs, including what their reach is. Some people have long digits, others have short ones.

    It takes 2 handed operation for me even with the 4" phone. If I bought a 5.5" or 6" phone, I would not complain about having to use a second hand, because I already have to do that on sub-5" phones.
    EssThree, RumoredNow and techiez like this.
    02-14-2015 09:49 AM
  15. Laurman's Avatar
    A proper phone should be entirely usable with one hand, only need of second hand is for faster typing. Even with 6" devices you should be able to do most of the stuff with one hand.
    Hamburger menu is the worst thing in wp10.
    02-14-2015 12:47 PM
  16. Praxius's Avatar
    A proper phone should be entirely usable with one hand, only need of second hand is for faster typing. Even with 6" devices you should be able to do most of the stuff with one hand.
    Hamburger menu is the worst thing in wp10.
    I think a lot of people need to "get a grip" over all of this.

    If a 1320 or a 1520 is too large for you to easily use with one hand, then who's fault is that?

    They are not designed for everyone. Some people have big hands and some people have small hands.

    I'm around 6'6" with slightly above average sized hands. I thought long and hard about which phone to get. I ended up with a 930, but the 1320 was a very close choice as well. The 1520 was and still isn't realm available in my area.

    Still, I picked up, handled and used a 1320 extensively before I chose the 930. Size wasn't an issue in the regard of handling. My thumb could reach all areas of the screen. Since the 1320 & 1520 are of the same dimensions, the same would apply to the 1520.

    I got the 930 due to power and features, while the 1320 interested me based on size and the SD card support.

    My wife ended up getting the 1320 for herself. Her hands are much smaller than mine and yet I have not heard her complain about any of the half-arsed crap I keep seeing in here about hamburger menus or crappy iPhone diagrams of someone's personal interpretation of where they think the average person's right thumb can reach on a screen.

    The phone she had before the 1320 was the Galaxy S4, which isn't much of a small phone either and was full of hamburgers and hotdogs.

    All this complaining about being able to do everything with one hand on a large phone reeks of moaning. Sorry, one thumb.

    Oh and I'm also left handed, yet i use both hands to do various things on my phone depending on the action, situation, my mood, etc.

    I'm not in here complaining about the lack of left handed features am I?

    When I use Internet Explorer or any other app & want to use the three dot menu in the bottom right, do I come in here to complain that I may have to take half a second to reposition my hand to reach it without bringing up the URL bar?

    Do I complain that sometimes I have to use two hands?

    Someone said they don't want to use two hands to access the photo menu because it's 19 degrees out. I assume that's US terms for cold. Well as a Canadian, I'll say this:

    Get some gloves, wait until you're some place warmer, or suck it up buttercup.

    Seriously this is complaining about nothing. If it's too hard for you to navigate a large phone with one particular hand and it's that big of a deal for you that you need to keep flodding internet forums about it, protesting, then you should have got a phone more hour size.

    All these 1520 users complaining sound like men who hit their mid life crisis, bought the most expensive sports car they could find and then come back and complain they can't fit all their luggage in the trunk and only have two seats.

    You knew what you were getting when you bought a large phone and if you didn't then that's your fault for not researching properly and being an informed consumer.

    Oh but hamburger menus didn't exist when you bought your gigantic phone?

    It always existed in Cortana.

    And what about various apps you use or have installed in the past, specifically third party apps?

    What about various web sites you visit on your phone?

    Are you guys telling me that right up until this point, you never had to reach or touch those evil red sections of your phone before or often?

    Going back a bit, I do end up using my wife's 1320 regularly and even my three year old son uses her phone.... None of us have complained about it being too big like the people in here

    I even offered to trade her my old 925 for her 1320 but she refused because she likes the large screen and has no issues with its size at all.

    Considering the 1320 is also thicker and heavier than the 1520 (last I heard) you'd think it would be even worse for handling.

    My 930 was also a bit larger than my 925, but my 925 was larger than my old 800. And her 1320 is larger than mh 930. All of them require adjustment in the hand for proper use and all of them require different approaches when handling them. If having to do this bothers people so much, then perhaps they should just stick to one size they are used to and be done with it.

    All I see in here are a lot of people complaining about nothing and need to grow up.

    The only thing that would get me to complain would be the positioning of the camera on the Lumias. Right now they are in a perfect spot for portrait and landscape shooting, but the moment they move the camera to the top corner like an Android or iPhone, I will be PO'd.

    But that's a different subject.
    Last edited by Praxius; 02-14-2015 at 05:28 PM.
    Harrie-S, ooklah, rhapdog and 14 others like this.
    02-14-2015 05:16 PM
  17. RumoredNow's Avatar
    When I had an HP Veer with a 2.6" screen I used it with two hands...

    I'm fortunate enough to have two hands. Both of them work.

    If I did not have two usable hands I might begin to worry about this issue. But even then I'd probably adapt. That's how humans are supposed to be. Adaptable.
    JamesDax, rhapdog, Skamath and 4 others like this.
    02-14-2015 06:00 PM
  18. rhapdog's Avatar
    @Praxius: Your the first person to post as long or longer than I do that I've seen. I read every bit of it and enjoyed your post thoroughly. Thank you for that. At last, someone that just "gets it."

    This is the way a vast majority of consumers feel, and it is why Microsoft is going the direction they are going. They can't continue to cater to the 3-percenters out there. They have to do what they can to reach the other 97%.

    So many complainers on this forum are also saying "If they make the UI/UX just like Android, then everyone will just stay with Android." Problem is, that's not true. The security of Windows Phone over Android will attract a large number of people. The familiarity with how things work will help those people learn the OS and love it faster. The way the OS is more fluid than Android and doesn't require the highest end hardware just to run halfway smooth will also make people love it. With the Universal Apps and more apps being available, still more reason to make the switch, because the apps on Windows won't take down the whole system like it can on Android because of Windows sandboxing and security.
    02-14-2015 06:01 PM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    "If they make the UI/UX just like Android, then everyone will just stay with Android." Problem is, that's not true. The security of Windows Phone over Android will attract a large number of people.
    I agree with pretty much everything you say in these forums rhapdog, except this.

    Security doesn't sell. Most won't believe there's a difference (apparent even here at WCentral) and even fewer care. It's like cars. What sells are things like features and horsepower (Android), luxury and status symbols (iPhone), or just being really affordable (AOSP Android). Marketing your car by telling customers how safe it is gets you 1% market share at most. With computing equipment that's no different.

    You're right. There are yet many other objective reasons to like WP. None of them are marketable however. That's the problem. It's always been the problem. Lowering the barrier to entry sounds good, but at this point WP could look and work exactly like iOS or TouchWiz and it wouldn't make a shred of difference. "Because it's easy" isn't going to convince Android or iOS owners to switch. What MS needs is an easily marketable feature that many find highly desirable. Bring that, and people will switch to WP with or without those barriers. Without any stand out features, lowering the barrier to entry will do nothing for WP.

    The idea that a more similar UI will get a notable number of people on board the WP train is wishful thinking IMHO. That's us trying to rationalize Microsoft's moves. Little more...
    Last edited by a5cent; 02-14-2015 at 09:52 PM. Reason: grammer
    tgp, RumoredNow, hprvez and 9 others like this.
    02-14-2015 06:36 PM
  20. Nicholas Lovan's Avatar
    This is what the iPhone 5 is based on, as well as the ultra-reachability feature on the 6/+

    And that's the only thing about iOS I care about, because my parents (yup) said the most in getting is what they have:

    an iPhone 4.

    One 521 later... c:
    EssThree likes this.
    02-14-2015 06:41 PM
  21. raphok's Avatar
    What happened to your other hand?
    well, you know

    sometimes people eat a icecream... or use umbrella, carry bags, hold a water bottle
    02-14-2015 07:04 PM
  22. anon(5445874)'s Avatar
    well, you know

    sometimes people eat a icecream... or use umbrella, carry bags, hold a water bottle
    Easy, stop eating ice cream. Anyway, I either use two thumbs or hold the phone in one hand so my other index finger can touch the screen.
    02-14-2015 07:19 PM
  23. raphok's Avatar
    Easy, stop eating ice cream. Anyway, I either use two thumbs or hold the phone in one hand so my other index finger can touch the screen.
    and umbrella? i drop and get wet?

    pathetic argument
    hprvez, EssThree, theefman and 7 others like this.
    02-14-2015 07:22 PM
  24. anon(5445874)'s Avatar
    and umbrella? i drop and get wet?

    pathetic argument
    Are you afraid of getting wet? You should stand tall and proud while walking in the rain. Either way, you sound way to serious about this. And I do not want someone with an umbrella impacting how I use my phone.
    Nicholas Lovan and Praxius like this.
    02-14-2015 07:32 PM
  25. Alain_A's Avatar
    Praxius;2988499


    The phone she had before the 1320 was the Galaxy S4, which isn't much of a small phone either and was full of hamburgers and hotdogs.




    LOLOLOLOLOL
    HaibaneReki and TechFreak1 like this.
    02-14-2015 07:48 PM
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