1. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    I will be short here I just found this post on the UserVoice and after going through it I couldn't agree more with it. I just want you guys to read it and vote for it. This post summarized many of our complains and I'll dare to say the future of how we use WP. So, please vote for it.

    Here are couple of quotes from the OP + the link:

    Windows 10 technical preview for phone looks like it's throwing away ergonomics for the sake of looking like a smaller version of Windows desktop. It is not a "Mobile-first" experience, not an experience tailored for smartphones, but one that is made for PCs and shrunk to a mobile screen.

    A smartphone is a different experience from a PC experience, not just because of screen size. Microsoft seem to think of Windows Phone 10 as "Windows 10 small" rather than Windows Mobile. They believe in universal apps and Windows everywhere, but their idea of universality is one of uniformity, rather than diversity.
    The OS and apps should scale not just to fit a mobile screen, but different input methods and different limitations. Windows 10 handles touch, but does not handle single-handed mode, which is how people use their phones in most scenarios outside games and photography.

    A mobile OS is not a regular OS on a small screen. Using the same UI from the desktop makes good promo-shots, but a difficult smart phone experience.
    UserVoice
    02-19-2015 03:19 PM
  2. TechFreak1's Avatar
    There is another usevoice posting, not as elaborate but it has over 12,000 votes, the other over 47,000

    https://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...t-copy-android

    https://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...ersonalization

    I've linked rockstarzzz post as it contains the above links.

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...tm#post2995878
    02-19-2015 06:08 PM
  3. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    I hope our votes aren't diluted by too many separate posts on uservoice! Please, let's concentrate our votes.
    a5cent and Dusan Randj like this.
    02-19-2015 10:32 PM
  4. M7H's Avatar
    I really have the idea, that people voting against change in Windows Phone are actually really holding the platform back.

    Please people just go with the flow, and let MS do there best to change the path once chosen, because just look at the figures, it clearly wasn't the best decision!

    I mean, they have an overwhelming market share of... Yes 2.5%!
    So it's time to try something else!
    tiziano27, Praxius, raycpl and 2 others like this.
    02-20-2015 05:13 AM
  5. raycpl's Avatar
    I posted elsewhere on great one-handedness (actually one thumb) of WP. I fully appreciate the design flow and how it all naturally fell in place. However if it indeed holds back the advancement of W10 then I'm all for change.
    "The sleeper must awaken"...
    Last edited by raycpl; 02-20-2015 at 10:06 AM.
    M7H, aximtreo and rhapdog like this.
    02-20-2015 05:31 AM
  6. Praxius's Avatar
    I have been a part of many internet forums, modded a few and admin'd a few since 1998, and all covered a wide range of topics.... Debate, politics, games, music, etc..

    The one thing I learned over the last number of years is that online polls are next to useless for a number of reasons.

    Some of the bigger reasons is that online polls do not properly represent the majority of users or population due to some people not actual voting regardless of their position.

    When a poll is created in a manner where the question and choices are presented in a bias fashion, people who support the bias vote while those who don't agree with the bias see it as an invalid poll and therefore see no logical reason to cast a vote when the outcome is already known.

    Those who have an issue with something that a poll focuses on, generally vote in favor of their choice to fix what bothers them. They in turn attempt to get their buddies to do the same.... Meanwhile those who have no issue at all are usually not looking for a poll nor are they looking for web pages that focus on "problems" that they don't see as problems. This leads to the majority of people who vote making the results completely lopsided and giving the impression that the greater majority of people want something changed when in reality the actual majority end up liking things as they are and are too busy with other things to constantly get involved or otherwise defend what they like.

    Case in point would be a number of video games. I have been in one specific forum for a game that came out with a new version and changed a few things around from the last. Those who enjoyed the previous game got upset and complained to no end... Month after month, poll after poll, constantly trying to bring up their issues with the new game and complaining that they ruined the core elements of the franchise that made it great.

    Eventually the devs caved in (or got fed up) and changed things.... Very soon after, there was a complete flood into the forums by loads of other players freaking out and wondering wtf happened to their game.

    Those original complainers were not the majority but a very vocal minority and those devs learned a lesson that internet polls amount to jack and crap.

    All these other players who came in after the major changes never voiced themselves before because they were too busy playing a game they enjoyed and didn't waste their time on internet forums.

    Do you guys notice an overall trend in these forums?

    Members in here don't generally come in here to post unless they need help, have a problem or just want to complain.

    Not all, but most.

    The remainder of members in here enjoy trying to help others and to catch up on information about things they are really interested in.

    A lot of the people I see in here are complaining about things they don't like or they are seeking help for a problem they can't figure out.

    The majority of everybody else is out in the real world living their lives and enjoying the things they don't have a problem with.

    So to sum up, I won't cast my vote in any of these polls and I doubt the majority would vote either.

    Because of these and many other factors, these polls are not only invalid, but give no accurate representation of what the real majority like or dislike.

    Internet Polls are not really polls, they are petitions designed in a way to give the illusion of a choice of a final and fair result.
    rhapdog, M7H, a5cent and 2 others like this.
    02-20-2015 08:01 AM
  7. xandros9's Avatar
    that's a nice write up and all, but nowhere do these UserVoice things claim to be a poll or a representative sample of the population, but its still something.

    These aren't polls, internet or not. This isn't asking whether you support Candidate A or B.
    these are essentially petitions.
    Kevin Rush and a5cent like this.
    02-20-2015 08:29 AM
  8. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Re: Praxius,
    I agree with much of what you have said, especially regarding polls in biased forums.

    But, I disagree regarding Microsoft's UserVoice. I feel that everyone who cares, should go there and read and decide for yourself and hopefully vote.

    Daniel Rebino said yesterday on Windows Weekly that Microsoft is listening and improvements are made based on the comments in uservoice. Almost like cloud sourcing the design of the software.

    Voting does no harm and may do some good. I have never agreed with the idea that voting doesn't matter and that's an excuse for not voting.

    I vote ("like", "Thank You") on these forums all the time. The votes themselves contribute to the conversation.
    muvig and a5cent like this.
    02-20-2015 08:30 AM
  9. muvig's Avatar
    He may say its pointless to vote, but in real life this inaccessibility of the hamburger menu would catchup with you in one way or another. Every one would be affected here. If they can change its position from the top to the bottom would be great.
    Didn't anyone complained about those three dots?
    And one more thing, I am wondering why they chose the hamburger instead of a window icon?
    Here I think WCentral can help on reminding those who wish to vote on which uservoice we have to put our votes on.
    Jorge Holguin and Kevin Rush like this.
    02-20-2015 09:27 AM
  10. M7H's Avatar
    But, I disagree regarding Microsoft's UserVoice. I feel that everyone who cares, should go there and read and decide for yourself and hopefully vote.

    Daniel Rebino said yesterday on Windows Weekly that Microsoft is listening and improvements are made based on the comments in uservoice. Almost like cloud sourcing the design of the software.
    Ok, so then it's time to post a suggestion there to encourage MS to go on with the chosen path, including hamburger menu's and what not, and see how many votes we get.
    02-20-2015 09:35 AM
  11. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    I hope our votes aren't diluted by too many separate posts on uservoice! Please, let's concentrate our votes.
    They won't. The UserVoice is getting very busy these days and sometimes people just replicates because they have better explanation or because they don't want their opinion go lost in the comments sections. I am pretty sure MS has some kind of algorithm to trim down they ones that are replicated and counts all the votes.
    02-21-2015 01:08 PM
  12. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    Does anybody remember when MS update the OneDrive app couple of months ago? Well, I do and as many other I didn't like the changes MS made it was just a pure Android rip-off and our outcry or voice got loud and clear and MS change the App in less than two weeks if I recalled. So, yes our votes here are very important for the future of WP. It is totally different when stupid ideas [plenty of them] show up, they are ignored by almost everybody on the UserVoice site.
    02-21-2015 01:14 PM
  13. rhapdog's Avatar
    They won't. The UserVoice is getting very busy these days and sometimes people just replicates because they have better explanation or because they don't want their opinion go lost in the comments sections. I am pretty sure MS has some kind of algorithm to trim down they ones that are replicated and counts all the votes.
    No, you should always try to find an existing uservoice or feedback on your topic. See this quote from Giffdev, who is an actual Microsoft Employee. From: Someone needs to send this to Microsoft
    The best way to get this feedback to us would be either through uservoice (as someone listed above), or by using the feedback tool on Windows Phone (or Windows) to file feedback and +1 issues. Remember, it's a little more work but often more productive to search for someone who's posted the same feedback suggestion that you have and adding your +1 than creating a brand new suggestion, as all the +1s help each other bubble up faster than when we look at everything individually and try to link all the similar issues together manually.
    02-21-2015 03:43 PM
  14. manicottiK's Avatar
    It's true that endorsing an existing idea ensures that the idea will rise to the top. While UserVoice does let administrators merge similar ideas into one, summing their votes, we shouldn't make it harder for Microsoft to recognize a trend by diving an idea across many separate entries.
    rhapdog and xandros9 like this.
    02-21-2015 04:51 PM
  15. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    No, you should always try to find an existing uservoice or feedback on your topic. See this quote from Giffdev, who is an actual Microsoft Employee. From: Someone needs to send this to Microsoft
    I understand this, but not everybody think alike. MS should do like the guys here WC do when there is/are a duplicate/s move the post and let the owner know it has been move.
    02-21-2015 07:02 PM
  16. manicottiK's Avatar
    I understand this, but not everybody think alike. MS should do like the guys here WC do when there is/are a duplicate/s move the post and let the owner know it has been move.
    As someone who manages a (very tiny) UserVoice site, the challenge with merging ideas is that many suggestions put multiple ideas in one post.
    a5cent and rhapdog like this.
    02-21-2015 07:37 PM
  17. rhapdog's Avatar
    I understand this, but not everybody think alike. MS should do like the guys here WC do when there is/are a duplicate/s move the post and let the owner know it has been move.
    So you expect Microsoft to take up all their valuable time that should be spent on working on Windows 10 and instead have them manually search through and merge stuff? Sorry, but if you aren't in the Tech Preview to be assisting Microsoft, then you have NO BUSINESS being in Tech Preview. If you can't do it in a helpful manner, but insist on making things difficult even after things are pointed out, then you shouldn't be doing it at all.

    Uservoice is not a forum. A forum is where ANYONE can go to GET assistance, and many of those who fall into the ANYONE category simply have difficulty understanding how to do it right. The Uservoice for Tech Preview is for people who are already TECHNICALLY MINDED people to be previewing the OS in order to GIVE assistance back to the makers of the OS. Those who are already technically minded are expected to have a higher aptitude for putting things in the right place.

    This is no consumer preview. Stop trying to treat it like one.

    As someone who manages a (very tiny) UserVoice site, the challenge with merging ideas is that many suggestions put multiple ideas in one post.
    Exactly. And that brings up another point. Please only put ONE suggestion or problem report PER Uservoice report. Don't start bringing up everything that went wrong that day in a single post. Each one should be separate.
    a5cent likes this.
    02-22-2015 09:17 AM
  18. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    So you expect Microsoft to take up all their valuable time that should be spent on working on Windows 10 and instead have them manually search through and merge stuff? Sorry, but if you aren't in the Tech Preview to be assisting Microsoft, then you have NO BUSINESS being in Tech Preview. If you can't do it in a helpful manner, but insist on making things difficult even after things are pointed out, then you shouldn't be doing it at all.
    First of all I have every right as you do even if you have more technical knowledge than me. Second, I am not trying to make this more difficult for the contrary I am trying to help in everything I can. Yes they should take their "Value time" to go through out the UserVoice posts; that's why they created and I am pretty sure they were aware about duplicates. If everyone visited just one site or forum it would have easier to tell everybody to focus on the post already created instead of keep making duplicates. I believe the info. Is relevant even if there are duplications; read them and vote for the one you want and let keep making WP better.
    02-22-2015 10:03 AM
  19. rhapdog's Avatar
    First of all I have every right as you do even if you have more technical knowledge than me.
    It's not a right. It is a privilege that Microsoft has extended to us as a gesture of goodwill. It allows us to be a part of the direction of Windows 10. They do not HAVE to do this. It is by choice. A choice made by Microsoft that they can reverse any time they please. Keep making it difficult for them, and they may no longer continue to extend this privilege to people. Sorry, but it angers me when people start claiming "I have the right" when it is actually a privilege. You have the right to life. You do not have a right to other people's stuff. Windows 10 belongs to Microsoft and we are not paying Microsoft for a right to test it. It is a privilege. Learn the difference and adjust your attitude accordingly. THIS is why I treat the Insider Program with such great respect, because NO other software company has ever given their user base such a privilege as this before.

    Second, I am not trying to make this more difficult for the contrary I am trying to help in everything I can.
    Then simply show respect by not telling people "I am pretty sure MS has some kind of algorithm to trim down they ones that are replicated and counts all the votes." This encourages people to add new uservoice without doing a search first, which hampers the real effort of making Windows 10 better. Unless you are being paid by Apple to sabotage the work here, then those kinds of statements are ill advised.

    I would have thought after showing you the post from the Microsoft employee that you would have said, "Wow, they don't have an algorithm to combine them. We better at least do a search first.", But instead, you posted this:
    Yes they should take their "Value time" to go through out the UserVoice posts; that's why they created and I am pretty sure they were aware about duplicates.
    Yes, they will take their time and go through it. But that takes time away from completing Windows 10 when they have to do that. Start searching before posting to uservoice, or roll back to 8.1. Too many people are ready for Windows 10 to be completed yet have to continue waiting because Microsoft has to take the time to combine together all the Uservoice and feedback from people like you who can't be bothered to do a simple search! This is time that could be spent fixing the problems if we'd just put them into the same uservoice to begin with.

    By not bothering to search first, you are saying to everyone that you are more important than all the other testers and can't be bothered with the details. Hey, if you have time to PROPERLY test the platform, then you have time to PROPERLY report the issues.

    Just because you've been given the opportunity of this privilege (again, NOT a RIGHT), does not mean you should take advantage of it. If you DO continue to take advantage of it, please do it with more respect.
    ininjam and manicottiK like this.
    02-22-2015 11:25 AM
  20. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    Dude [rhapdog] chill, I just want to help. I am not taking advantage of the UserVoice and I am encourage anybody to do it.
    02-22-2015 11:39 AM
  21. viralgajera's Avatar
    They can keep both like wechat have hamburger menu and pivot. So just keep them both. That will be much better
    02-23-2015 05:23 AM

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