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03-13-2015 11:43 PM
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  1. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    I think that we are missing the point of what the true definition of flagship is supposed to represent. it's not supposed to be the smartphone with the most advanced specs but the smartphone that epitomizes and showcases the best elements of that phones name sake. We know that Samsung has set the bar for front loading the spec sheet, and it has conditioned our thinking to assume that is what the benchmark for a flagship should be. The average consumer isn't going to remotely test the threshold of the capacity of what the Galaxy S6 can do let alone really understand what it is, but they'll be the first to say it comes with the most advanced chipset. that's like buying a Ferrari because it can go from 0-80 in 0.6 seconds. What's the sense if you're an elementary school teacher? You're not a NASCAR or INDY care driver?!! The reality is the paradigm in the US evolves around the status quo. What's "in" and what is socially acceptable. This goes hand in hand with affordability. If you can't afford a Ferrari, you're not even going to consider one. If you can't afford an iPhone, you're going to consider other options. This is why WP is showing more success in Europe. MSFT's best way to get people to gravitate to the Windows Mobile experience is buy getting them to see it through something they already use, which for most is the desktop which MSFT still dominates. Most iPhone and Android users also use some form of Windows desktop. With Windows 10 one ecosystem approach seeing the seamless transition between the desktop and phone will be a refreshing sight. Furthermore, I see MSFT doing what they did with the Surface Pro 3, and that is bridging the gap between phone and phablet. If they can produce a phone that is equivalent to the Surface Pro 3, then they will have succeeded in producing the best mobile experience without having to mimic Androids overloaded spec sheet.
    Pete likes this.
    03-04-2015 04:40 PM
  2. anon(5969054)'s Avatar
    I think that we are missing the point of what the true definition of flagship is supposed to represent. it's not supposed to be the smartphone with the most advanced specs but the smartphone that epitomizes and showcases the best elements of that phones name sake. We know that Samsung has set the bar for front loading the spec sheet, and it has conditioned our thinking to assume that is what the benchmark for a flagship should be. The average consumer isn't going to remotely test the threshold of the capacity of what the Galaxy S6 can do let alone really understand what it is, but they'll be the first to say it comes with the most advanced chipset. that's like buying a Ferrari because it can go from 0-80 in 0.6 seconds. What's the sense if you're an elementary school teacher? You're not a NASCAR or INDY care driver?!! The reality is the paradigm in the US evolves around the status quo. What's "in" and what is socially acceptable. This goes hand in hand with affordability. If you can't afford a Ferrari, you're not even going to consider one. If you can't afford an iPhone, you're going to consider other options. This is why WP is showing more success in Europe. MSFT's best way to get people to gravitate to the Windows Mobile experience is buy getting them to see it through something they already use, which for most is the desktop which MSFT still dominates. Most iPhone and Android users also use some form of Windows desktop. With Windows 10 one ecosystem approach seeing the seamless transition between the desktop and phone will be a refreshing sight. Furthermore, I see MSFT doing what they did with the Surface Pro 3, and that is bridging the gap between phone and phablet. If they can produce a phone that is equivalent to the Surface Pro 3, then they will have succeeded in producing the best mobile experience without having to mimic Androids overloaded spec sheet.
    Are you saying we buy more Windows phones in Europe because we cannot afford iPhones? Rofl. Give me a break. It think we Europeans are a little less mind ****ed and Apple crazy. Even poor people buy iPhones if they want one.
    03-04-2015 04:46 PM
  3. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    Are you saying we buy more Windows phones in Europe because we cannot afford iPhones? Rofl. Give me a break. It think we Europeans are a little less mind ****ed and Apple crazy. Even poor people buy iPhones if they want one.
    LOL.. not at all. I'm implying that with the way the carriers over here subsidize the price of the more expensive phones, it makes them more accessible for more people to get them. I don't think you'd have the number of people buying the more advanced phones in the US if they had to pay $500-$700 for a phone. As for your second point, I agree with you. It appears people are less inclined to purchase a phone just because it has an apple on it, or because they can boast about the processor it has that they know nothing about.
    03-04-2015 04:57 PM
  4. JP8296's Avatar
    ​I don't understand why some many people wanna more and more power in their phones...it's a phone is not not where you use photoshop or Autocad 3D, why do you wanna a screen with bigger resolution than 1080p x 1920 pixels and this is a lot in a tinny 5" screen but then with all that power the battery has still to last more than one day or two while o play a lot with your phone. The way this is going in a few years people will try to get in their pocket something with the size of your house door.
    03-04-2015 05:21 PM
  5. Alain_A's Avatar
    ​I don't understand why some many people wanna more and more power in their phones...it's a phone is not not where you use photoshop or Autocad 3D, why do you wanna a screen with bigger resolution than 1080p x 1920 pixels and this is a lot in a tinny 5" screen but then with all that power the battery has still to last more than one day or two while o play a lot with your phone. The way this is going in a few years people will try to get in their pocket something with the size of your house door.
    I'm sure some would like it, having those in their phone and working well
    03-04-2015 05:24 PM
  6. JP8296's Avatar
    I'm sure some would like it, having those in their phone and working well
    I know but then what you do with your tablet?
    03-04-2015 05:34 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    This goes hand in hand with affordability. If you can't afford a Ferrari, you're not even going to consider one. If you can't afford an iPhone, you're going to consider other options. This is why WP is showing more success in Europe.
    For eastern European countries that were formerly "puppet states" of the USSR, that's probably true. In western Europe it's not.

    The average western European is wealthier than the average American. The U.S. ranks about 27th in terms of median personal wealth. Western Europeans also have access to similar carrier subsidies, meaning you can also get an iPhone for $100 down.

    The main difference is that getting a more expensive device is directly reflected in your monthly service bill. In most European countries, carriers are legally required to separate the cost of device repayment from the costs for their service. You can get a two year plan for $15 with a Lumia 530, or you can get same plan with an iPhone for $45 monthly. Many people decide the iPhone isn't worth the extra cost. In the U.S. where the monthly rate is the same no matter what device you choose, that just isn't a factor.

    The second difference is related to marketing. With the exception of the U.K. Apple has been a relatively recent phenomenon in Europe. While Apple always owned between 3% and 7% of the U.S. PC market share, in European countries that market share was pretty much 0%. The iPod was the first Apple product that made any impact in Europe, and in most non English speaking European countries, seeing an Apple advertisement was a very rare thing indeed. That didn't really change until the iPhone came out. That's probably the main reason why the prestige Americans associate with Apple just doesn't exist here. The iPhone is certainly viewed as a very good and desirable product. Most Europeans just don't consider it a status symbol the way Americans do. For most Europeans, status symbols are still clothes, cars and homes.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-04-2015 at 05:48 PM. Reason: spelling
    theefman, JP8296 and xandros9 like this.
    03-04-2015 05:37 PM
  8. Alain_A's Avatar
    I know but then what you do with your tablet?
    sometimes when you are on the go, you start up from the phone then jump to a tablet for more and finish it off from a computer...
    03-04-2015 05:42 PM
  9. JP8296's Avatar
    sometimes when you are on the go, you start up from the phone then jump to a tablet for more and finish it off from a computer...
    Ok that maybe be a good workflow for some people, I had to buy a 24" screen for photo photo editing so think on do it in a 5" screen is kinda messed up for me :)
    03-04-2015 05:48 PM
  10. Alain_A's Avatar
    Ok that maybe be a good workflow for some people, I had to buy a 24" screen for photo photo editing so think on do it in a 5" screen is kinda messed up for me :)
    I did like the presentation when she showed how office would work on a phone..Ex..: spreadsheet and the ease of working it.
    It begin to work like if you were on your computer..So an extension of your computer/tablet
    JP8296 likes this.
    03-04-2015 05:52 PM
  11. nightryder21's Avatar
    I'm thrilled you don't work for Microsoft, because I'd hate the route you're taking on both ends.

    Much of what you've mentioned, to me, ignores basic logic. The battery stuff is the main thing. I don't get the display size differences either. Oh, and given that there is only one SD 810 model available, how are you going to get different RAM allocations for each device, and why do you even think 4 GB is necessary/beneficial? Lastly, why are you aiming for extreme storage sizes that raise the device's price tag, when a microSD option would solve that issue while keeping the price lower?

    I also hate the finger crap, just another gimmick to have to skip during device setup. Aluminum devices suck as well, IMO. I'd rather have polycarbonate, which won't change in feel with the temperature as much (I hate grabbing an ice-cold device or one that's sat in direct sunlight for too long in the summer). I thought that the 925 was a hideous device myself, and would prefer single-color, single-material backing in several colors, like with the 920 (I hated the aluminum band on the 830, especially since it never matched in color to the device). I think my preferred style would be the 930, but without the metal band, with an orange or non-cyan blue option.
    The 1020 successor (1030) is fundamentally a different phone than the 925 successor (935). The 1030 would (hopefully) essentially a phone to actually compete with pocket camera with a 1" sensor. If it is a high MP sensor (>30mp) and shorting raw you have huge file sizes. To multitask amd processes these photos you lots of ram. Asking for 1gb extra ram above current flagships is not asking for much. Also it needs a minimum of 32GB of storage but 64 should really be the minimum because of the use case of this type of phone. Fingerprint sensor is such a huge convenience and secirenwaynto login to things besides your own phone. Paying with your phone is sooooop much easier with it.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    03-04-2015 07:43 PM
  12. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    The 1020 successor (1030) is fundamentally a different phone than the 925 successor (935). The 1030 would (hopefully) essentially a phone to actually compete with pocket camera with a 1" sensor. If it is a high MP sensor (>30mp) and shorting raw you have huge file sizes. To multitask amd processes these photos you lots of ram. Asking for 1gb extra ram above current flagships is not asking for much. Also it needs a minimum of 32GB of storage but 64 should really be the minimum because of the use case of this type of phone. Fingerprint sensor is such a huge convenience and secirenwaynto login to things besides your own phone. Paying with your phone is sooooop much easier with it.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    You know that the 925 is just a different-bodied 920, right? And the only difference between the 1020 and 920 was the camera (extra imaging sensor, better optics overall). So, saying that the 1030 and 935 are "fundamentally different" really makes no sense. They share a lot of common parts (CPU, GPU, RAM, display).
    Grimlock likes this.
    03-04-2015 09:14 PM
  13. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    As a Microsoft employee, you would be a disaster.
    Excellent claim, lots of defense, love the insight. 10/10, would sarcastically demean again.
    03-04-2015 09:15 PM
  14. Alain_A's Avatar
    Ok lets do that again....wrong quotation before



    Fingerprint sensor is such a huge convenience
    Convenient but not that secure. IPhone was hack by a 7 years old.

    I think someone is coming with the retina sensor to unlock devices


    Paying with your phone is sooooop much easier with it.
    Sure but I don't trust it to be that safe.
    03-04-2015 11:16 PM
  15. Grimlock's Avatar
    You know that the 925 is just a different-bodied 920, right? And the only difference between the 1020 and 920 was the camera (extra imaging sensor, better optics overall). So, saying that the 1030 and 935 are "fundamentally different" really makes no sense. They share a lot of common parts (CPU, GPU, RAM, display).
    Exactly, and I think it would be ideal if they released one flagship in the fall that is the successor to the 920/925/1020 but in two sizes (like the L640 and L640 XL). I'm not saying the L930 wasn't a good phone or not a successor, I just mean a followup that has a superior camera to the 1020 but in a 925 like form factor.
    03-04-2015 11:44 PM
  16. Jazmac's Avatar
    I don't think much research is needed for that phone compared to a flagship with lower specs. The biggest problem is the cost of distribution.
    That would mean the Surface, Surface 2, and the pro line didn't take much research to build either. That Windows X is already ready for production and they are just teasing us with the preview. Have you ever spec'd a desktop computer, bought all the parts then put them together? Any research involved in that and what personal costs would you affix to your time?
    03-05-2015 08:18 AM
  17. Blade800's Avatar
    You are setting yourself for a dissapointment if you think they will have 3 or 4GB RAM. They wont because Windows OS simly doesnt need it. I think the flagships will have 2GB RAM. Max 3 but not 4. If they add more it will only drain battery nothing else. People are such sheeps, they only see big number next to RAM and theyre like oh my goood sweet, it got 8gB of RAM yeeees and then they wine about battery lasting one day.
    03-05-2015 08:39 AM
  18. mmcpher's Avatar
    I will be more encouraged about the next Flagship when MS can get the W10 TP to run on one of the old flagships. OTOH, I am hopeful about the new XL naming convention which suggests that the new Flagships will effectively include an upgraded 1520.

    There seems to be an uptick in interest in other manufacturers releasing W10 phones. It will help with the cross-platform launch of W10 if they get the word out about new Flagships and have them widely available quickly (when W10 is formally released).

    I will hang tough with my 1520, but it would help to get the TP soon and also, the tantalizing come-one of informed rumors and leaks about the next Flagships!
    03-05-2015 09:18 AM
  19. Grimlock's Avatar
    ​I don't understand why some many people wanna more and more power in their phones...it's a phone is not not where you use photoshop or Autocad 3D
    A lot of reasons why I'd want the latest SOC. A new processor typically is more efficient and will do a task with less power, ultimately improving battery life (same reason why I wanted LTE). I'd also like my phone to boot up faster, take faster pictures, load web pages faster, etc.

    I recently compared the speed of web browsing on my L925 to an iphone 6 and nexus 6- it felt like the difference between dial-up and broadband on some websites.

    But I do agree with high resolutions, I don't think I'll ever need 4K on a 5" device.
    03-05-2015 10:54 AM
  20. JP8296's Avatar
    A lot of reasons why I'd want the latest SOC. A new processor typically is more efficient and will do a task with less power, ultimately improving battery life (same reason why I wanted LTE). I'd also like my phone to boot up faster, take faster pictures, load web pages faster, etc.

    I recently compared the speed of web browsing on my L925 to an iphone 6 and nexus 6- it felt like the difference between dial-up and broadband on some websites.

    But I do agree with high resolutions, I don't think I'll ever need 4K on a 5" device.
    I agree with you on the new processors but a new processor does not mean that you need necessarily more ram, 4g of ram only drain more battery and increases the device cost and on a WP you simply do not need that amount of ram but yeah a lot of people justo ona to show it off to their friends and say 'its bigger than yours'
    03-05-2015 12:04 PM
  21. Grimlock's Avatar
    I agree with you on the new processors but a new processor does not mean that you need necessarily more ram, 4g of ram only drain more battery and increases the device cost and on a WP you simply do not need that amount of ram but yeah a lot of people justo ona to show it off to their friends and say 'its bigger than yours'
    Yes, the obsession with ram is very strange in the mobile space. It's also very strange with pcs/ laptops and the average consumer that only use the browser and MS office, but therein lies the problem.

    Consumers (mostly enthusiasts) demand these specs and use them to differentiate between devices, so even though WP runs quite well with specs from 2 years ago its hard to convey that to consumers.
    a5cent and JP8296 like this.
    03-05-2015 03:19 PM
  22. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Exactly, and I think it would be ideal if they released one flagship in the fall that is the successor to the 920/925/1020 but in two sizes (like the L640 and L640 XL). I'm not saying the L930 wasn't a good phone or not a successor, I just mean a followup that has a superior camera to the 1020 but in a 925 like form factor.
    I don't think you're looking at the phone classes correctly. If they went the XL way with the 900 series, then the 940 XL would almost certainly be the replacement to the 1500 series, not the 1000 series. The 640 XL's advantages over the 640 are the camera and the size. With a pair of 900-series releases, the differences would probably just be the size, and MAYBE a better FFC in the XL model.

    Should Microsoft release another 1000 series device, I would expect it to be similar to what the 920/1020 line was: The 1040 would be a 940 with the optics boost. It wouldn't carry a larger display than the 940, and given the general SoC improvements over the past 3 years (since the 1020's SoC was launched), any need for a RAM boost or special optics chip would be out the window. So, you could see the next camera-centric device released as a 940 C (as suggested in the past), or as a 1040 (skipping the 1030 to keep the numbering scheme equal).

    The other possibility is that the 1000 and 1520 models are thrown together, but I'm not sure how likely that would be, as there could be a loss of optics-loving customers because of a too-large screen. However, they COULD make it so there's a 940 with the expected specs (SD 810, 5" 1080p IPS display, etc.), then the 940 XL takes that, ups the screen to 5.5-6.0", and replaces a likely 20-MP camera with a 40-MP camera, along with a resolution bump on the display to QHD. Maybe combining the devices into a large package lessens the camera hump, not sure.

    Still, I think that a 940 XL replacing the 1020 on its own is the least-likely scenario. I'd expect the 1000 series moniker to live on, with the 900 XL taking over for the 1500 series, or I'd expect the 900 XL series to combine the 1000 and 1500 series devices into one. It actually might make the most sense, given how the competition has somewhat taken that route as well (Galaxy S vs. Galaxy Note and iPhone 6 vs. iPhone 6 Plus).
    03-05-2015 05:49 PM
  23. Spectrum90's Avatar
    That would mean the Surface, Surface 2, and the pro line didn't take much research to build either. That Windows X is already ready for production and they are just teasing us with the preview. Have you ever spec'd a desktop computer, bought all the parts then put them together? Any research involved in that and what personal costs would you affix to your time?
    What's the difference in research of using 2gb or 4gb of ram, or using a SOC 800 or 810? Something like a fingerprint scanner would need more research, but they have to do it anyways.
    The investment in production methods for a product is called "Development", but again, 2gb vs 4gb doesn't change that cost.
    03-05-2015 05:58 PM
  24. Legoboyii's Avatar
    15xx and 9xx are both nearly equal flagships. A 940 XL is implying it will be even better specced and pricier and more of a flagship than the 940. It's implying a Lumia 17xx series xD
    03-05-2015 06:03 PM
  25. xandros9's Avatar
    15xx and 9xx are both nearly equal flagships. A 940 XL is implying it will be even better specced and pricier and more of a flagship than the 940. It's implying a Lumia 17xx series xD
    I think it's the opposite.
    1520 is a pretty big number compared to 930.
    A 940 XL implies exactly that, an XL 940.
    a5cent likes this.
    03-05-2015 06:45 PM
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