Microsoft, Windows 10 & Blackberry

ohgood

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1 How much screen do you have left when the virtual keyboard is active?
2 Ever try doing an Excel project in landscape without a physical keyboard?
3 Smartphone doesn't mean watching YouTube or playing games.



*4 Sent from my iPad Mini 3 using Tapatalk because it amuses me. Gotta problem with that?


1 depends on the keyboard. sometimes 1/3 of the screen, sometimes half. i haven't thought about it before. it might not be an issue for my uses.

2 (i think you're talking about on a phone/tablet, but not certain) no, i've never seen anyone use excel on a phone or tablet, let alone in landscape or portrait mode. usually, i see facebook, chrome, 4chan, reddit, or maps on the screen as i'm walking by. i've never seen the cells of excel, the UI of word, or the powerpoint UI happening on a tablet or phone.

3 but smartphones do youtube, games, and internet incredibly well. i'm confused, if they aren't for youtube, games, and GIS, what are they for ?

*4 I lol'd when i read the sigline. yes, it's cool to use what you like. :)
 

fatclue_98

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3 but smartphones do youtube, games, and internet incredibly well. i'm confused, if they aren't for youtube, games, and GIS, what are they for ?

Smartphones were not made for games, YouTube or media consumption. The 1st gen iPhone made that distinction, not the BlackBerrys, Treos or iPAQs that ruled the roost. Android and iPhone did NOT invent the smartphone, they just re-defined them for use by the general public.

If you've never seen Excel or Word out in the wild is because the people who use those apps are generally in an indoor setting. There's a reason that Office is one of the top selling points for WP. There's a reason BB is touting "Work Wide" for its Passport. There's a reason that Office & Outlook on iOS and Android is being discussed so much in the media and whined about incessantly here on WPC. Smartphones are for business, anything else is a byproduct of the technology used.
 

ohgood

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1a Smartphones were not made for games, YouTube or media consumption.
1b The 1st gen iPhone made that distinction, not the BlackBerrys, Treos or iPAQs that ruled the roost.

2 Android and iPhone did NOT invent the smartphone, they just re-defined them for use by the general public.

3 If you've never seen Excel or Word out in the wild is because the people who use those apps are generally in an indoor setting.

4 There's a reason that Office is one of the top selling points for WP.

5 There's a reason BB is touting "Work Wide" for its Passport.

6 There's a reason that Office & Outlook on iOS and Android is being discussed so much in the media and

7 whined about incessantly here on WPC.

8 Smartphones are for business, anything else is a byproduct of the technology used.




1a they're pretty good at games, and media consumption, in 2015
1b those pocket pc's were caught off guard by a new idea: sell to EVERYONE including the ceo, instead of JUST the ceo

2 yep, never denied that one. the general public seems to like them in their current form. hundreds of millions of them a year.

3 in college settings, libraries, offices, businesses, social gatherings, i've never seen office used on a phone. it's always a tablet.

4 but, office is free on iphone and android now, how is that a selling point for WP ?

5 they'll yell "fuzzy bananas!!!" if it sells a phone.

6 its a talking point because microsoft finally accepted that there was a huge untapped potential market (or at least mindshare of market) in iphone and android. they aren't selling office, they're giving it away for mindshare.

7 there's a LOT of whining on wpc. usually its about carriers, flagships, or microsoft not moving fast enough, but not much about office.

8 that was the case in 1995, but in 2015, it's all about the apps baby. millions and millions of sales a day. billions of youtube plays. and in between games or text messages, there is a business oriented phone call. office ? sorry, that's on the desktop.
 

fatclue_98

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^^We'll just agree to disagree. I've been using smartphones for the better part of ten or eleven years and my needs are the same now as they were then. They've just upped the ante and made them more affordable and more functional and more appealing to the masses. But at the end of the day, smartphones are still for productivity.

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
 

rhapdog

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3 in college settings, libraries, offices, businesses, social gatherings, i've never seen office used on a phone. it's always a tablet.
In offices, on planes, at the airport, in Taxis, seen office used a lot. And not by the people using the FREE office on iPhone and Android. Just because you and the people you hang out with don't do something, stop assuming no one does. Millions upon millions of people do, and Microsoft has the sales to prove it. I have to tell you again that you don't speak for everyone.

4 but, office is free on iphone and android now, how is that a selling point for WP ?
Yeah, a BASIC version is free. You want the advanced features and there is a subscription price you have to pay. Yeah, Microsoft is actually selling a LOT of those. Windows 10 for phones will get the full Office 365 for mobile for free without having to pay the subscription price like you have to on iPhone and Android. THAT is the selling point for WP.

7 there's a LOT of whining on wpc. usually its about carriers, flagships, or microsoft not moving fast enough, but not much about office.
You haven't read everywhere, then. Again, not speaking for everyone.

8 that was the case in 1995, but in 2015, it's all about the apps baby. millions and millions of sales a day. billions of youtube plays. and in between games or text messages, there is a business oriented phone call. office ? sorry, that's on the desktop.
Sorry, wrong. Office isn't for only the desktop. Microsoft is selling a lot of subscriptions to the full Office 365 for iPhone and Android. A large part of the millions and millions of sales a day on those apps are the in app purchases to get full features of Office on those iPhones and Androids. Yeah, Microsoft is raking it in on that. Why do you think they can afford to be patient with Windows Phones? Because they are primarily a service company. Office is a monthly service they sell as an app with a monthly subscription plan for advanced features for iPhone and Android.

^^We'll just agree to disagree. I've been using smartphones for the better part of ten or eleven years and my needs are the same now as they were then. They've just upped the ante and made them more affordable and more functional and more appealing to the masses. But at the end of the day, smartphones are still for productivity.

Thanks. I'm going to have to make that same agreement.

Sure am loving using my smartphone. As far as apps I use every single day, Excel is one I can't live without. Sure, I play a few games, and I have watched a few videos, but when it comes right down to it, if I had to choose between a smartphone that was better at games or better at Microsoft Office, I'd have to choose the Microsoft Office one, because I can live without fun and games on a phone, but I have to have access to Office. I know a lot of people that feel the same way. Very few of those people that I know who use office rarely have time to watch a video or play a game. Same with me. It's rare that I get the opportunity. I agree, fatclue. At the end of the day, smartphones are still for productivity.
 

ohgood

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In offices, on planes, at the airport, in Taxis, seen office used a lot. And not by the people using the FREE office on iPhone and Android. Just because you and the people you hang out with don't do something, stop assuming no one does. Millions upon millions of people do, and Microsoft has the sales to prove it. I have to tell you again that you don't speak for everyone.


Yeah, a BASIC version is free. You want the advanced features and there is a subscription price you have to pay. Yeah, Microsoft is actually selling a LOT of those. Windows 10 for phones will get the full Office 365 for mobile for free without having to pay the subscription price like you have to on iPhone and Android. THAT is the selling point for WP.


You haven't read everywhere, then. Again, not speaking for everyone.


Sorry, wrong. Office isn't for only the desktop. Microsoft is selling a lot of subscriptions to the full Office 365 for iPhone and Android. A large part of the millions and millions of sales a day on those apps are the in app purchases to get full features of Office on those iPhones and Androids. Yeah, Microsoft is raking it in on that. Why do you think they can afford to be patient with Windows Phones? Because they are primarily a service company. Office is a monthly service they sell as an app with a monthly subscription plan for advanced features for iPhone and Android.



Thanks. I'm going to have to make that same agreement.

Sure am loving using my smartphone. As far as apps I use every single day, Excel is one I can't live without. Sure, I play a few games, and I have watched a few videos, but when it comes right down to it, if I had to choose between a smartphone that was better at games or better at Microsoft Office, I'd have to choose the Microsoft Office one, because I can live without fun and games on a phone, but I have to have access to Office. I know a lot of people that feel the same way. Very few of those people that I know who use office rarely have time to watch a video or play a game. Same with me. It's rare that I get the opportunity. I agree, fatclue. At the end of the day, smartphones are still for productivity.

you've interested me now. the sales for the smartphone version ofoffice you mentioned, where did you find this information? I'd like to read about it.

the links you provide may support your statement about millions of people buying it everyday, since the taxis and plane rides you personally take will only support about 100 or 200 sightings a year. I've never seen a person use office on a phone, in any setting.
 

edwinsberry

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As has been mentioned, some known partnering is going on between Samsung, and some apparently google and android talk. IMHO this is a matter of who takes advantage of what is left of Blackberry first and whether windows even wants to fool with it. Personally, someone should and whoever does gets a ring. By that I mean what is left and valuable from BB which is significant. Besides QNX, BBM, a host of BB software tools and probably most importantly perceived security and enterprise business. According to most BB will be close to even this year. As mentioned, Fairfax has rebuffed Samsung but that would have to be about money. Yes, BB is becoming a support company clearly. The question for any suitors is whether they want them in house or to deal with them as a supplier of some sort.
 

fatclue_98

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With a 41.9% of the entire market, Apple remains the leader in terms of smartphone sales in the US, according to data compiled by comScore for the 3-month period ending January 2015.

comScore also details the most used apps by smartphone users stateside aged 18+. At the top, with a decisive lead, is Facebook (69.7%), followed by YouTube (54.5%), Google Play (51.8%), Google Search (51.5%), and Facebook Messenger (47.4%). Other popular apps among Americans include Instagram, Twitter, and Pinterest.

Those stats are very telling. It tells you why Windows Phone and BlackBerry are a distant 3rd and 4th, respectively. Microsoft touts Office and OneDrive while BlackBerry touts security and productivity. Not sexy, but it's what the pros want.
 

ohgood

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With a 41.9% of the entire market, Apple remains the leader in terms of smartphone sales in the US, according to data compiled by comScore for the 3-month period ending January 2015.

comScore also details the most used apps by smartphone users stateside aged 18+. At the top, with a decisive lead, is Facebook (69.7%), followed by YouTube (54.5%), Google Play (51.8%), Google Search (51.5%), and Facebook Messenger (47.4%). Other popular apps among Americans include Instagram, Twitter, and Pinterest.

Those stats are very telling. It tells you why Windows Phone and BlackBerry are a distant 3rd and 4th, respectively. Microsoft touts Office and OneDrive while BlackBerry touts security and productivity. Not sexy, but it's what the pros want.



Good info, thanks for pointing to comscore. I looked around briefly and saw
comScore Reports January 2014 U.S. Smartphone Subscriber Market Share - comScore, Inc

and given rhapdog's response earlier, i was expecting to see Microsoft, Office, or Office365 in the top 15 list there. The only mention was of total marketshare, which is still less than 4%. Now, this is only the US I believe, but last time I read info on China, it had dropped significantly there.

Its more support for my argument: Focus on SELLING SOFTWARE to the iphone/android users, and get out of the mobile hardware (and support) game.


A quick (and fairly reliable) source for popularity checks of apps on the Google Play Store shows that Microsoft's own Office suite has about 27 million installs. That was surprising, and supports rhapdogs view that it's widely used, and used on mobiles, a LOT.

But then I scrolled down and looked at similar applications. Polaris Office has 18 MILLION MORE installs than Microsoft's suite, and a barely higher rating of 4.2 vs Office 365's 4 stars.


I guess I'll have to agrree with him that, yes, people really do use office suites on their phones/tablets. It appears microsoft's offering isn't the leader, but it is being installed and used. I'll have to keep my eyes open more often and watch for the splash screen to see if it's polaris or microsoft's version of office being loaded.
 

fatclue_98

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But then I scrolled down and looked at similar applications. Polaris Office has 18 MILLION MORE installs than Microsoft's suite, and a barely higher rating of 4.2 vs Office 365's 4 stars.

Considering Polaris has been around for what seems like forever, it looks like Office is closing the gap quickly. A lot of early Android users had nothing but Polaris and even came pre-installed on many devices so those users were familiar with it. Let's see a year from now where the leaderboard stands.
 

ohgood

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Considering Polaris has been around for what seems like forever, it looks like Office is closing the gap quickly. A lot of early Android users had nothing but 1 Polaris and even came pre-installed on many devices so those users were familiar with it.
2 Let's see a year from now where the leaderboard stands.


1 yes, about preinstalls. i believe microsoft is preinstalling office on ALL their mobile devices now , and also counting it as an 'install' similarly ?


2 the microsoft mantra 'wait six months' is starting to unintentionally creep into people's forum posts... i wonder if it's creeping into their acceptance levels also ?
 

fatclue_98

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1 yes, about preinstalls. i believe microsoft is preinstalling office on ALL their mobile devices now , and also counting it as an 'install' similarly ?


2 the microsoft mantra 'wait six months' is starting to unintentionally creep into people's forum posts... i wonder if it's creeping into their acceptance levels also ?



I believe only Samsung devices are getting the Office preinstalls and that's probably due to the bread Sammy owes them. I haven't read about any other Androids getting any MS services preinstalled.

I've never seen any pressers from Microsoft telling users to wait "another six months". Please feel free to provide a link otherwise put a lid on it.
 

ohgood

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1 I believe only Samsung devices are getting the Office preinstalls and that's probably due to the bread Sammy owes them.

2 I haven't read about any other Androids getting any MS services preinstalled.

3 I've never seen any pressers from Microsoft telling users to wait "another six months". Please feel free to provide a link otherwise put a lid on it.

1 speculation ? i haven't read it anywhere, maybe you have ?

2 polaris is the only preinstall office suite i know of on android. this was actually supporting the 'preinstalls don't really count' point someone made earlier. i don't consider preinstalls to qualify, even though the google playstore and microsoft's certainly do. it would be a better measurement if it was a PREFERED install, or a better description an active install by people seeking and using office suites. did i make that clear ? i'm not really sure if that makes sense now that i've read it ?

3 see wpcentrals headlines, and plenty of users' posts about 'wait and see', 'six more months', etc:
Wait for it...something major is coming to Windows Phone! | Windows Central
This is why Microsoft keeps 'starting over' with Windows Phone | Windows Central

wpcentral took the lid off, not me.
 

fatclue_98

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1 speculation ? i haven't read it anywhere, maybe you have ?

2 polaris is the only preinstall office suite i know of on android. this was actually supporting the 'preinstalls don't really count' point someone made earlier. i don't consider preinstalls to qualify, even though the google playstore and microsoft's certainly do. it would be a better measurement if it was a PREFERED install, or a better description an active install by people seeking and using office suites. did i make that clear ? i'm not really sure if that makes sense now that i've read it ?

3 see wpcentrals headlines, and plenty of users' posts about 'wait and see', 'six more months', etc:
Wait for it...something major is coming to Windows Phone! | Windows Central
This is why Microsoft keeps 'starting over' with Windows Phone | Windows Central

wpcentral took the lid off, not me.

1. Not speculation, probably just read more than you.

Samsung bundles Microsoft apps on its new Galaxy S6 | The Verge

2. What does it matter if it's preferred or not? Polaris was widely bundled particularly on Verizon devices.

3. I was referring to Microsoft pressers. I don't recognize this, or any other tech site, as being official Microsoft spokespersons.
 

ohgood

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1. Not speculation, probably just read more than you.

Samsung bundles Microsoft apps on its new Galaxy S6 | The Verge

2. What does it matter if it's preferred or not? Polaris was widely bundled particularly on Verizon devices.

3. I was referring to Microsoft pressers. I don't recognize this, or any other tech site, as being official Microsoft spokespersons.


i replied point for point yesterday, but the GOOD comment was deleted. now i'll do it again. this is a discussion, and nothing more. please see it as such.


1 this link is from a third party, not microsoft. you specifically asked for microsoft release information, and reiterate the request in #3. the verge is not a credible source, per your own criteria.

2 this is a good question, and i'll try to illustrate why it matters now:

preinstalled = no user input, no user searched out, installed, or necessarily used that office suite. i've seen quite a few phones and tablets that have had an office suite installed on them, and when i pressed the icon to see what it was like, was met with the initial splash and setup screens.

user installed = user searched out and installed an office suite themselves. they are much more likely to USE IT on a daily basis, if they were actively looking for a solution, and installed it instead of just having it on their phones.

these two differences are what are not defined in the overall view of from the google and microsoft stores. the better metric (arguably) is the user ratings, and HOW MANY users rated the application.

for instance:
polaris office = 45 million installs vs microsoft office = only 27 million installs

this is a poor measuring stick ^^^^ because preinstalls don't reflect user desires.


a much better metric is using user RATINGs in the online app stores:

polaris office = 4.2 stars, from 190,000 users vs microsoft office = 4 stars from almost 350,000 users.


THESE users are actually using, and actively reporting their opinion of hte applications usability. these users are the ones that will effect future releases with requests for features, bug reports, and usage statistics. the pre-install group, i would speculate, will not likely be represented in these groups.


3 ok, but wpcentral likes to post news, and the opinions here matter. wpcentral's own headlines SHOULD be a good source for information, i consider them to be so.
 

fatclue_98

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1 this link is from a third party, not microsoft. you specifically asked for microsoft release information, and reiterate the request in #3. the verge is not a credible source, per your own criteria.

I don't know how else to state this. I asked for a direct quote from Microsoft regarding "six more months" or "wait and see". Nothing else.

3 ok, but wpcentral likes to post news, and the opinions here matter. wpcentral's own headlines SHOULD be a good source for information, i consider them to be so.

The Verge citation was for the Office bundling with Samsung that you had never heard of. Nothing else.

2 this is a good question, and i'll try to illustrate why it matters now:
preinstalled = no user input, no user searched out, installed, or necessarily used that office suite. i've seen quite a few phones and tablets that have had an office suite installed on them, and when i pressed the icon to see what it was like, was met with the initial splash and setup screens.
user installed = user searched out and installed an office suite themselves. they are much more likely to USE IT on a daily basis, if they were actively looking for a solution, and installed it instead of just having it on their phones.
these two differences are what are not defined in the overall view of from the google and microsoft stores. the better metric (arguably) is the user ratings, and HOW MANY users rated the application.

I don't know how or why you went off on this tangent. All I mentioned was that Polaris had been around on Android much longer than Office and it made sense for Polaris to be higher on the usage charts. Nothing else.

I have no idea what this has to do with pre-installed or user-installed. If an app is bundled with the OS, whether it's ethical or not, it stands to reason people will be more familiar with it than with an app that has to be "searched for".
 

Laura Knotek

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I wonder how many users install apps but never bother to rate/review them. I even got popups for Windows Phone Store apps asking me to rate/review, but I often dismissed those popups; sometimes I even uninstalled those apps, due to the nag factor. I'd say I usually rate or review apps I absolutely love or were absolutely buggy/unusable. Most never get ratings/reviews from me.

I have 106 apps from Google Play so far for my Android device, but I haven't rated or reviewed a single one so far.
 

ohgood

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I don't know how else to state this. I asked for a direct quote from Microsoft regarding "six more months" or "wait and see". Nothing else.



The Verge citation was for the Office bundling with Samsung that you had never heard of. Nothing else.



I don't know how or why you went off on this tangent. All I mentioned was that Polaris had been around on Android much longer than Office and it made sense for Polaris to be higher on the usage charts. Nothing else.

I have no idea what this has to do with pre-installed or user-installed. If an app is bundled with the OS, whether it's ethical or not, it stands to reason people will be more familiar with it than with an app that has to be "searched for".



i've explained why app counts are not good metrics twice now, but the posts keep getting deleted.

oh well. i guess it's not going to be a discussion.
 

ohgood

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I wonder how many users install apps but never bother to rate/review them. I even got popups for Windows Phone Store apps asking me to rate/review, but I often dismissed those popups; sometimes I even uninstalled those apps, due to the nag factor. I'd say I usually rate or review apps I absolutely love or were absolutely buggy/unusable. Most never get ratings/reviews from me.

I have 106 apps from Google Play so far for my Android device, but I haven't rated or reviewed a single one so far.


this ^^^

the ratings seem to be from people that actually use applications, and find them similarly useful/annoying as you've stated.

unfortunately, a pre-install doesn't meet any of this criteria.
 

barbarianthemadserb

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Just for info for the OP. I have a windows Lumia 830 which I really like. I also have quite a few blackberry phones from BB9700 to Z10,Z30,Q10 and have been on the site "Crackberry.com" since way back. I have never seen where a blackberry was called a "Crackberry". Crackberry refers to the site for Blackberry. I have seen others also say the same as the OP did but, again, never have I seen nor referred to any of my blackberries as crackberries! I don't know where people are coming up with this stuff.
 

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