The Windows 10 April 2018 update has arrived! Get the new Dell XPS 15, starting at $999.99
11-15-2015 09:20 PM
45 12
tools
  1. a5cent's Avatar
    But if they used XAML too, then it's likely not XAML that's causing the resume/load issue, m i rite?
    I think you're right that it's not a general load/resume issue. It's only a factor when the XAML engine must rebuild the UI from scratch, which happens either on launch or during rehydration (after having been tombstoned). Then however it can be an issue, but obviously not always. It depends on how complicated the UI is (number of elements, how much data binding occurs, etc).
    If you look at the guidance MS provides for developing WP8.1 store apps that perform well, you'll notice that almost all of it focuses on limiting the amount of XAML the XAML engine must parse. I don't think MS would devote so much time to that one issue if it wasn't a major factor.
    03-08-2015 04:30 AM
  2. KhawarNadeem's Avatar
    I think you're right that it's not a general load/resume issue. It's only a factor when the XAML engine must rebuild the UI from scratch, which happens either on launch or during rehydration (after having been tombstoned). Then however it can be an issue, but obviously not always. It depends on how complicated the UI is (number of elements, how much data binding occurs, etc).
    If you look at the guidance MS provides for developing WP8.1 store apps that perform well, you'll notice that almost all of it focuses on limiting the amount of XAML the XAML engine must parse. I don't think MS would devote so much time to that one issue if it wasn't a major factor.
    Well I'm not a primarily software guy, I'm an electrical engineer, so pardon if I get something wrong here. I haven't done a through study of MVVM and what it means on mobile OSes but what I have heard is that it does add a more computational overhead on relatively simple apps. MVVM is, and is always recommended to be, the model used for hub style apps which are very dominant in the WP dev field. I wonder if that contributes to the delay as well.

    WinRT has splash screens as a compulsion which SL didn't. And the way it's supposed to be done is that the major part of the view is supposed to load while the splash screen is showing (including the resources like images). A loading screen after the splash screen is just poor coding, I think.

    I think the load times on WP are fine, for the hardware. It's the resume times that MS needs to polish out. XAML is the ONLY thing that makes the view, so limiting the amount of XAML means limiting the functionality of the app, which in turn limits what the app can do. If we had an alternative that would be fine, but devs have no other choice but to use XAML. And XAML is supposed to be quite efficient itself, isn't it? At least it was for Silverlight, which had a lot more APIs and functionality that WinRT did (at the time of 8.0). Even now things like graphing libraries and camera lenses are missing for WinRT which were there in Silverlight.

    I guess, given time, RT will catch up. Even Android was quite slow with its runtime(s) before Jellybean.
    Last edited by KhawarNadeem; 03-08-2015 at 11:36 AM.
    03-08-2015 10:11 AM
  3. Vitor Salvatore Pierce's Avatar
    ^ the comparison between W10 IE and W10M doesn't tel us anything. One uses Win32's multitasking model, the other uses WinRT's multitasking model. Completely different.
    Second, as ManicottiK alluded to, no *app* on WP, nor on W10M runs in the background. None. However, an app can request that the OS run specific features in the background. BackgroundFileTransfer, and BackgroundAudio are two examples. That allows the OS to fully suspend the app, but continue to execute a function on its behalf.
    Like I say, isn't just IE: "Also, some apps stay in the background when you lock the phone!"
    Did you read?
    03-08-2015 09:37 PM
  4. stenson625's Avatar
    You are the one that's doing all the wondering, and ultimately doesn't understand, yet you have the gall to call other's answers stupid. Do you not see the irony?

    For some reason you're unable to envision/accept that the issues you have with WP could possibly be solved in any other way than THE ONE (Android / Desktop like) way you are familiar with.

    Some of the previous paragraphs in this thread mention why things are the way they are. Others explain what a better alternative (to the full out and uncontrolled multitasking approach you're advocating) may look like.



    95% of your requirements are related to background downloading. I don't know when MS will get around to making that a bit more flexible, but we all agree they must, possibly by adding a restriction, namely by removing the ability to download something in any way other than through a centralized download manager.

    Anyway, unless MS decides to go full out Android-Clone (to facilitate compatibility with Android apps), the unrestricted multitasking you're asking for isn't happening. But if you'd just stop calling for that, and instead just mentioned the parallel-running capabilities you think the OS should provide, we'd be pretty much in agreement.
    I just saw how irony had turned up in painting me stupid. Yeah? Yeah! I do not understand the developers jargons (permit me to use), but still advise them to advise themselves and MS and retrieve the alpha cyan WP OS from the public, whose pros and cons are still problems yet to be figured out by all the involved parties!
    Can't this MS group of developers do something nice to WP OS without creating a problem which you think is only personal to me?
    Last edited by stenson625; 03-09-2015 at 06:10 AM.
    03-08-2015 10:39 PM
  5. a5cent's Avatar
    I haven't done a through study of MVVM and what it means on mobile OSes but what I have heard is that it does add a more computational overhead on relatively simple apps.
    I'd say so too. I think it's related to MVVM apps typically making more extensive use of databinding.
    I think the load times on WP are fine, for the hardware. It's the resume times that MS needs to polish out.
    Note that when rehydrating after being tombstoned, the load and resume delays are caused by the exact same things. Shortening loading will often shorten resuming durations by the exact same amount.

    IOW when loading we're shown the splash screen, and when resuming we're shown the resuming screen, but behind the scenes the app is often going through the exact same motions.

    XAML is the ONLY thing that makes the view, so limiting the amount of XAML means limiting the functionality of the app, which in turn limits what the app can do.
    Not necessarily. I'd guess the majority of apps include a lot of needlessly verbose XAML where the number of elements in the visual tree could be significantly reduced without the user noticing any difference at all. As previously stated, there is also the common issue of apps forcing the XAML engine to parse far more XAML than would be required to render the landing page.

    And XAML is supposed to be quite efficient itself, isn't it?.
    XAML is a really nice UI technology, that allows devs to declaratively configure a UI. Considering what it does, it is efficient. Yes. But compare that to iOS or Android where that ability simply doesn't exist. No matter how efficient something is, you can never beat not doing it at all.

    The same is true of the CLR. Considering what it does, initializing the .NET runtime on WP is quite efficient, but compared to iOS, it's slow, because iOS requires no runtime environment at all.


    I guess, given time, RT will catch up. Even Android was quite slow with its runtime(s) before Jellybean.
    I don't think there is any catching up to do in that sense. It's an apples to oranges comparison, because often times WinRT does much more. We can't expect WinRT to do everything it does and match iOS' performance, who has no support for anything like XAML nor even a runtime environment.
    03-10-2015 01:24 AM
  6. stenson625's Avatar
    Polished and vehement confusions everywhere, even in the WP OS world. If it is not Android, it is not Android; and it can't get perfect and be cheap. Just wasted my money! What a world! Windows phone everywhere with forever catch up of their developers! Pathetic!
    03-10-2015 01:24 PM
  7. Asskickulater's Avatar
    Polished and vehement confusions everywhere, even in the WP OS world. If it is not Android, it is not Android; and it can't get perfect and be cheap. Just wasted my money! What a world! Windows phone everywhere with forever catch up of their developers! Pathetic!
    I can't make the slightest sense of this post..
    03-10-2015 04:58 PM
  8. stenson625's Avatar
    I can't make the slightest sense of this post..
    You just bought yourself alot of time to be part of the confusion by that comment.
    03-10-2015 05:23 PM
  9. Asskickulater's Avatar
    You just bought yourself alot of time to be part of the confusion by that comment.
    Again.. I can't make out what your trying to say at all..

    Are you saying I'm gonna be part of confusing other people? Or are you trying to punish me because you cant English on an English forum by not clarifying? :s
    03-10-2015 09:40 PM
  10. vish2801's Avatar
    What I'd like to see is a global download manager that lists all the files that are queued up for background downloading, and also mentions on behalf of which apps that is occurring, thereby giving users control over the download process.

    BTW: WP can already download files in the background, even when the app isn't running, but the download queue per app is limited to five files.

    For many apps this works perfectly well, but app developers often fail to use that capability. MS can't do much about that. In your situation that probably wouldn't work however, assuming your podcast app downloads more than five files. Still, it should be able to download at least five files without the app being in the foreground. If not, then its the developer of the app that screwed up, not MS.
    That's true and shows the poor quality app situation in WP Store :(
    Btw, can we have a uservoice for having Global download/upload manager which can be in Action Center until the task finishes ?? Or do we have one already ??
    03-13-2015 08:23 AM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    That's true and shows the poor quality app situation in WP Store :(
    Btw, can we have a uservoice for having Global download/upload manager which can be in Action Center until the task finishes ?? Or do we have one already ??
    Unfortunately, I found a gazillion of them. Most of them with 3 - 12 votes. :-/

    Worse, many of them mention only IE, which IMHO would be a terrible idea. It really needs to be OS-wide, meaning it should be for use by all apps, not just IE. If MS is smart, they will also remove the ability to download anything from the internet in any other way, because too many developers don't seem to care enough to make the downloading process run in the background if they aren't forced to.

    However, I did find one feature suggestion that had a decent description and a reasonable number of votes. This one:

    https://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...manager-for-wp

    I'll be adding a few votes there too.
    03-13-2015 09:56 AM
  12. stenson625's Avatar
    Again.. I can't make out what your trying to say at all..

    Are you saying I'm gonna be part of confusing other people? Or are you trying to punish me because you cant English on an English forum by not clarifying? :s
    You are confused because you seem to be alien to the problems and complaints which flood Windows Central about WP OS limitations.
    When you hear words like, 'I just wasted my money on WP for its several limitations', then you shouldn't be confused at all about the complaints! However, when you chose to be deliberately confused, you are either part of the problems or aiding them.
    03-14-2015 01:26 AM
  13. Asskickulater's Avatar
    You are confused because you seem to be alien to the problems and complaints which flood Windows Central about WP OS limitations.
    When you hear words like, 'I just wasted my money on WP for its several limitations', then you shouldn't be confused at all about the complaints! However, when you chose to be deliberately confused, you are either part of the problems or aiding them.
    No, I just cant understand your broken *** English.
    03-14-2015 05:40 AM
  14. vish2801's Avatar
    Unfortunately, I found a gazillion of them. Most of them with 3 - 12 votes. :-/

    Worse, many of them mention only IE, which IMHO would be a terrible idea. It really needs to be OS-wide, meaning it should be for use by all apps, not just IE. If MS is smart, they will also remove the ability to download anything from the internet in any other way, because too many developers don't seem to care enough to make the downloading process run in the background if they aren't forced to.

    However, I did find one feature suggestion that had a decent description and a reasonable number of votes. This one:

    https://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...manager-for-wp

    I'll be adding a few votes there too.
    That's about porting IDM software available on desktop imo. But still I'll upvote it :) Can you suggest something to MS employees here taking part in various forums ?
    03-15-2015 06:54 AM
  15. kklemn's Avatar
    i'd love an option like this:
    -default state of an apen app in the background is suspended/paused state
    -if you listen to a youtube clip in IE, it would be awesome if you had the "pause/play" button if you hold the back button below the screen of the app

    what do you think? that way the battery life would be the same for people that are ok with the way things are now, but if you needed an app to be running you'd just go to the open apps menu (how do you call that view when you hold the back button anyway?) and make it run in the background :)
    03-15-2015 02:36 PM
  16. stenson625's Avatar
    WP OS, an endless experiment that is poised to remain unproductive, is ready to move forward when it starts listening to consumers needs, not wants!
    03-15-2015 03:23 PM
  17. Asskickulater's Avatar
    i'd love an option like this:
    -default state of an apen app in the background is suspended/paused state
    -if you listen to a youtube clip in IE, it would be awesome if you had the "pause/play" button if you hold the back button below the screen of the app

    what do you think? that way the battery life would be the same for people that are ok with the way things are now, but if you needed an app to be running you'd just go to the open apps menu (how do you call that view when you hold the back button anyway?) and make it run in the background :)
    if you were watching a youtube cliip, its audio would continue to play after you left the app, so.. your way is just a more ghetto, less intinutive way of accomplishing the same goal
    03-15-2015 10:24 PM
  18. zkyevolved's Avatar
    Well, I certainly hope they do improve upon the multitasking. I see "Resuming" far too often on my 1520 on Denim. How can this be improved on? Well, not trashing everything in memory! I have seen in Android a lot of applications active. I don't need that on WP. But I do notice that WP does tend to trash the open applications rather quickly. I would love to be able to leave some applications always running maybe? Or not have them be taken out of RAM so often. The device can study which applications you use the most, and then keep those active more or less depending on usage. I open 6tag every 3-4 days. I open Line and Whatsapp every hour or less.
    03-22-2015 09:58 AM
  19. Grimlock's Avatar

    I do look forward to some level of true multitasking, multiwindow for a phone with the display real estate that the 1520 offers would be great...
    I really hope this is introduced in WP10. They can start out small with some of the core OS apps and gradually expand. I saw the Samsung implementation on the Note and it wasn't bad, but I think MS can improve on it.

    Maybe in the card view instead of swiping down to close an app, you swipe up the two apps you want to have open.
    03-25-2015 11:52 PM
  20. rajthampi's Avatar
    Stupid answers all over here just to sweet talk you to silence when the truth is all written in black and white! Heck! On a normal, do I need a Billion headed brained developer to achieve background download on my phone? No! Then why the flattery fuse of defensive backing of MS OS's gullibility?
    I know one thing: when you keep giving people excuses for a long time on why they should remain stupid, their stupidity will produce a new way of reasoning out the absurd. Soon you will become old school, stupid one for that matter.
    Minimum few are ready to speak the truth. Yes, the OS and the OS design "thoughts" altogether are old school, saving the battery by NOT letting apps running in the background or NOT letting open sockets in the background IS not the "right" way for a modern OS.
    Android does it better and iOS also, sheesh, hold you reins before asking me to eff off. I am using 3 computers running Windows 10, own 2 Lumia phones running Windows10 phone insider previews, so NOT a hater(?), yet I would love to see the OS maturing to better levels.
    11-15-2015 09:20 PM
45 12

Similar Threads

  1. Is spotlight still not working for AU or is it just me?
    By Chintan Gohel in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-08-2016, 10:39 AM
  2. Cortana problem on windows 10 mobile
    By Windows Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-05-2016, 07:44 AM
  3. How can I get rid of adware on my phone?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-04-2016, 02:15 PM
  4. No voice guidance on some windows maps favorites
    By okizen in forum Windows 10 Mobile
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-04-2016, 12:51 PM
  5. can i play xbox on my laptop it have the app
    By Windows Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-04-2016, 12:31 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD