03-15-2015 01:38 PM
45 12
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  1. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    7) again, the HARDWARE race is dead. microsoft could release an octa core 16Gb ram device with a 20 day battery life today... and it would not put a dent in the current mobile marketshare. people have their phones. they have their apps. they have it already, and aren't changing for a shrunken desktop in their pocket. the backlash from windows 8 and it's emphasis on change for the sake of change (the UI) should be enough proof.
    Here some concepts of great hardware.
    lumia-201530_2-2-.jpg
    limia-201530-20_3.jpg

    And next to the iPhone it looks even greater.

    l1520-20vs-20i6plus-20.jpg
    http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...dows-10-a.html

    So not Hardware is not dead. It's part of the life hood of any ecosystem.
    rhapdog and yihong kang like this.
    03-09-2015 06:02 PM
  2. ohgood's Avatar
    1 You act like you speak for everyone. You seem to have the attitude of many in the Apple Ecosystem... "Apple hasn't created it, so no one wants it." Until Apple finally falls in and does the same thing everyone else has been doing for years, and suddenly, "Look what Apple invented, no one ever thought of it." or "Apple is the one that did it right."

    2 i for one WANT the docking. I want ONE DEVICE, not several that I have to copy files back and forth between the cloud or through cables. I know a LOT of people that want the same thing. For the most part, people who need a nice sized monitor on their desk but also have to take their business on the go want this. That's a large population waiting to be tapped. I realize not everyone will want to dock. A large number of people that use iPhones or other brand high-end flagships don't use a desktop or laptop at all, because they can't afford both. Something like this would make it affordable for those kind of people.


    3a That's your argument? in 2002 but not 2015? No reasoning? Does everything have to match a fad for you?

    3b a little history... the reason a stylus was used in 2002 was because screens could not handle touch yet, because of the technology available. Now they can, and those that do normally cannot use a stylus. Those screens that can handle both touch AND a pressure sensitive pen are truly amazing. We aren't talking about the type of stylus you buy for your iPad, which is just an extension of your finger.

    3c We're talking about pixel accurate, pressure sensitive pens to give far greater power to the user by combining use of a pen and the power of the touch of your fingers.

    3d There is so much you can do with a pen/stylus that you just can't do with a mouse or fingers on a touchscreen. Normal finger touch on a screen should remain dominant, but you need a pressure sensitive pen for more applications than I will bother to list here. Artistic drawing, CAD, and signing electronic receipts are just three examples where a finger isn't as good as a pen. If you really prefer a finger for those situations, I'll give you the finger. No, that didn't come out right... hehe.

    While businesses want to have a presence on Facebook, they do NOT want their employees on it all day. What is meant by "businesses don't care about Facebook" is that they don't want an app for that.

    4They would rather manage their Facebook from a desktop, not a phone app.
    1 no, just me. i don't know what is available on iOS or Apple. I do know that the docked phones sold in the past did not sell well. I was for the concept at the time, but soon realized that it was not a full desktop operating system, and pointless. just my personal experience.

    2 desktops are cheap. it's not so much a factor in what you're saying as much as phones that can do so much today that desktops are not needed as much. sales slumps of desktops and skyrocketing phone sales seem to support this.

    3a in 2002 the screens were poor quality, and the ui even worse. they dictated the need to use a stylus. in 2015 a stylus simply isn't needed for 99% of the use of a phone. if it were, we would see people buying them, and using them. I could quantify this more if you like, but I'm not sure what points you would need to hear.

    3b agreement

    3c agreement

    3d agreement , until the last part about cad, on a phone screen? signing receipts is funny. I've found " Moby duck" or "captain Morgan" works for those receipts just as well as anything else.

    4 understood

    if you find a few tens of millions of people clamoring for dockable solutions for mobile phones, cash in hand, the manufactures may listen to you for a few minutes. then they'll be distracted by the CHA CHING of the cash register while another 20 million people sign on to the same designs the sold last month, and ask you what you were saying. just a prediction, but it's something you can try anyway.

    I've been a fan of "more options, please!" like the docks you've mentioned for a long time. unfortunately my very specific needs are a drop off wine in a sea of whiskey.

    I typed this while doing something I didn't think was ever going to be possible: washing my phone in the kitchen sink. I guess anything is possible.
    rhapdog likes this.
    03-10-2015 04:19 AM
  3. rhapdog's Avatar
    @ohgood: I think overall we're getting to the point that we're going to get along just fine. We'll just agree to disagree on certain points, but it's nice to have an open discussion without a bunch of cry baby name calling. Thanks for keeping the discussion legit on your end.

    You said something, though, about how "dockable phones" didn't do well in sales in the past. I still don't think you fully understand what we mean by the type of docking we are talking about. There has never been a phone that docks in the way we are talking about, period, as the technology has not been available in the past. Technology is now there, but the differing technologies have not yet been set up to work together in order to accomplish such a docking. Would people want it? I can't speak of the masses, but I know a few people in my circle that would drool over the opportunity, including myself. I could easily justify it because I would no longer need to buy a laptop, desktop, phone combo. Just one device with a few peripherals, like monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc.

    1 no, just me.
    I only ask, then, that you indicate it is just you instead of making it appear as though you are speaking for everyone. Instead of saying, "Nobody", say, "I for one..." or, "The people I associate with...", or, "I read once where many people..." etc. It confuses some people, otherwise. Thanks.

    3d agreement , until the last part about cad, on a phone screen? signing receipts is funny. I've found " Moby duck" or "captain Morgan" works for those receipts just as well as anything else.
    As for signing receipts, yeah, you can scribble pretty much anything anyway. It will only be looked at if you dispute your purchase and the credit card company has to pull the image to compare the signature. Images aren't compared when you make a purchase, only when you file a dispute.

    As far as CAD goes, yeah, it wouldn't be widespread use. However, there are CAD users out there that actually will use CAD on a 1520. They don't do a full design, but will pull their drawing from the cloud to show a client and make a few minor edits where necessary. I actually know a few. These same people that use CAD also use Excel and Word, but oddly enough don't use PowerPoint on the phone. I honestly don't know many people that do PowerPoint on a phone, unless they use it in conjunction with MiraCast, and only when they have a phone capable of full HD.

    if you find a few tens of millions of people clamoring for dockable solutions for mobile phones, cash in hand, the manufactures may listen to you for a few minutes. then they'll be distracted by the CHA CHING of the cash register while another 20 million people sign on to the same designs the sold last month, and ask you what you were saying. just a prediction, but it's something you can try anyway.
    I hope you don't mind if I don't go looking for the people. I'd rather spend some quality time at home with my children and my wife. Thanks. ;)

    I typed this while doing something I didn't think was ever going to be possible: washing my phone in the kitchen sink. I guess anything is possible.
    Isn't technology grand? That's another feature I think is important in a phone. If I did that with my L635, it would cease to work. I had a Bluetooth headset that was dropped into the deep end of a salt water swimming pool at 10 meters, and I didn't realize it for 45 minutes. I dove down, retrieved it, and it was still connected to my phone via Bluetooth. I was able to put in on my ear, still wet, and make a call. I would love to have a Lumia that could handle that. Sometimes I get caught in a rain storm, and would love to have waterproof Bluetooth headset and phone. My new headset isn't waterproof like my old one, and is one feature I miss, as I have to remove it and place it in safety when I have to go out in the rain.

    Thanks for sharing that. It made me smile today.
    03-10-2015 09:11 AM
  4. Dr_8820's Avatar
    If you go to XDA, this oh good person is the biggest troll on the planet, I usually keep him on the ignore list. He's been banned so many times from XDA that is actually funny that he decided to reside in the WP forums but only talks negative about the platform.

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
    03-10-2015 09:39 AM
  5. rhapdog's Avatar
    Off Topic Warning

    If you go to XDA, this oh good person is the biggest troll on the planet, I usually keep him on the ignore list. He's been banned so many times from XDA that is actually funny that he decided to reside in the WP forums but only talks negative about the platform.

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
    We're not on XDA. While I appreciate your helpfulness here, I prefer not to judge people on past behaviors if I'm able to help them to have a good discussion with me in the present. There has been no name calling, just a difference of opinion in discussion. That's what makes the world go around.

    Some people will become trolls just because they are treated badly when they have a different opinion. I'm not saying that is what has happened, because I haven't been over at XDA forums in about 7 or 8 years. I just know I'm not treating him as a troll because he isn't currently acting like one. Also, he has been a member here since 2011 and has received thanks by people and given thanks to people. That shows that this person can be helpful.

    I have several purposes in coming to these forums.
    1. I like to learn what I can, which in some cases I see a question for help and do the research to find an answer (see #2). I learn a lot doing this.
    2. I like to help people.
    3. I get inspired by a few of the posts here. (not the "when denim" posts or "when in ____ (fill in random country)" posts. But some posts I find inspiring.
    4. I enjoy the interaction and discussions, as they keep me sharp as I begin to age (hopefully with grace).

    You can see by my post I even thanked ohgood for the manner in which he (I assume "he", I hope not wrongfully so) has conducted his end of the discussion. If he is trying to be a troll, then he isn't doing a very good job at it. :)
    Jorge Holguin likes this.
    03-11-2015 05:51 AM
  6. Dr_8820's Avatar
    Yep.
    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 1520 using Tapatalk
    03-13-2015 02:25 AM
  7. swedishdude's Avatar
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned price....

    If you have a phone that can double as a laptop, it really makes great economic sense. Buying a new laptop, tablet and phone every two-three years is kind of expensive!
    920Walker likes this.
    03-13-2015 04:23 AM
  8. rhapdog's Avatar
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned price....

    If you have a phone that can double as a laptop, it really makes great economic sense. Buying a new laptop, tablet and phone every two-three years is kind of expensive!
    Exactly! Would you rather buy a phone for $1200 every 2 years? Or a phone for $600 and a laptop for $1200? Saving $600 every 2 years (just a wild guess here, but may not be far off for most people) is a big selling point. That's $25 every month I can put in my pocket for 2 years. That's dinner out with the wife once a month, which helps keep the relationship going. Okay, not by the time you factor in baby sitters and all, and wouldn't cover the entire expense of eating out even, but it's still a big help for budget minded people, especially when they get it on contract and don't see the expense up front.
    03-13-2015 05:57 AM
  9. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    Exactly! Would you rather buy a phone for $1200 every 2 years? Or a phone for $600 and a laptop for $1200? Saving $600 every 2 years (just a wild guess here, but may not be far off for most people) is a big selling point. That's $25 every month I can put in my pocket for 2 years. That's dinner out with the wife once a month, which helps keep the relationship going. Okay, not by the time you factor in baby sitters and all, and wouldn't cover the entire expense of eating out even, but it's still a big help for budget minded people, especially when they get it on contract and don't see the expense up front.
    $600 or even $700 I buy two; my wife and me. I totally agree with your statement about price. Who knows we may be closer than we think.
    03-13-2015 07:43 AM
  10. yihong kang's Avatar
    Docking is the future. Flagship phones are more powerful than a 10-year old desktop (probably even 5-year old desktop). If people can use those desktop (there are people who are still using those 10-year old XP desktop). If we have that kinds of power, why we still need two devices? What is holding the docking solution back is the OS. Until now (don't count win10), phone OS is totally different from desktop OS, they are designed to be single-task interface. Once the OS catching up (can dynamically adopt the screen size), docking solution will be more common. Just look how many people are docking laptops and tablets now (used to be impossible 10 years ago), then we can guess how many people are going to dock the phones in 5-10 years.

    For me, probably we don't even need the phone. If technology (battery, cpu power, wireless docking and so on) allow someone to put the all the phone functionality into a smartwatch (or what ever wearable), then all we need is wearing a tiny computer. When we need a small screen on the go, we just wirelessly dock our tiny computer to a phone-size monitor, when we need a larger screen for work, just wirelessly dock our tiny computer to a desktop-size monitor.

    Probably, we don't even need monitor, just hololens.

    That is called future. Do not say something is no possible or no useful. It is not possible or useful just because time is not right.
    03-13-2015 08:38 AM
  11. yihong kang's Avatar
    Here some concepts of great hardware.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lumia%201530_2 (2).jpg 
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ID:	99348
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Limia%201530%20_3.jpg 
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ID:	99349

    And next to the iPhone it looks even greater.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	L1520%20vs%20I6plus%20.jpg 
Views:	65 
Size:	26.6 KB 
ID:	99350
    http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...dows-10-a.html

    So not Hardware is not dead. It's part of the life hood of any ecosystem.
    This is really cool. I hope this will be the true 1530.
    03-13-2015 08:40 AM
  12. swedishdude's Avatar
    Actually, I saw a video on YT with a guy hooking up every peripheral you can think of, to a Samsung note 4. Harddrives, keyboard, mouse, big screen through miracast or cable....it all worked fine! So if you like Android, the future is already here.

    Hopefully Microsoft will step up to the plate come September. A WP contender to the Note 4....something like that would be awesome.
    JohnStrk and Jorge Holguin like this.
    03-13-2015 05:33 PM
  13. Spectrum90's Avatar
    I for one WANT the docking. I want ONE DEVICE, not several that I have to copy files back and forth between the cloud or through cables. I know a LOT of people that want the same thing. For the most part, people who need a nice sized monitor on their desk but also have to take their business on the go want this. That's a large population waiting to be tapped. I realize not everyone will want to dock. A large number of people that use iPhones or other brand high-end flagships don't use a desktop or laptop at all, because they can't afford both. Something like this would make it affordable for those kind of people.

    Data belongs to the cloud. moving data physically on a device is archaic.

    Nadella said they're working in the mobility of the experience not the mobility of a device.

    The price of a docking station would be comparable to the price of a cheap PC.
    03-13-2015 08:30 PM
  14. yihong kang's Avatar
    Actually, I saw a video on YT with a guy hooking up every peripheral you can think of, to a Samsung note 4. Harddrives, keyboard, mouse, big screen through miracast or cable....it all worked fine! So if you like Android, the future is already here.

    Hopefully Microsoft will step up to the plate come September. A WP contender to the Note 4....something like that would be awesome.
    It is possible to dock an android phone long time ago(moto atrix was the first one), the problem is the OS. Android is designed for phone with single task. When you dock a phone, and turn it into a desktop, you are expecting it to behave as a desktop (multi-task, floating windows, reasonable size UI), not just enlarged phone. Besides the OS problem, there is always app gap problem. Just like WP in phone market, or even much worse, android doesn't have any app designed for large screen (12 inch+).

    Google and Microsoft agree with the future (one OS to rule it all), they are also both trying to do the same thing, just the opposite way (one from phone to desktop, the other is from desktop to phone). However, this is much more difficult for google, because the development of desktop programs are much more complex than the phone apps, and there is no good developing tools to take advantage of powerful intel core i CPUs.

    Both windows 8 and android laptop proved that you can't use one interface for all devices. However, it is possible to use OS with different interface adapting different types of devices. Whoever can nail it first (nice interface, nice developing tools), who is going to win the next battle regarding the computing platform.
    JohnStrk likes this.
    03-13-2015 10:07 PM
  15. ohgood's Avatar
    If you go to XDA, this oh good person is the biggest troll on the planet, I usually keep him on the ignore list. He's been banned so many times from XDA that is actually funny that he decided to reside in the WP forums but only talks negative about the platform.

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


    Hmm, I don't recall seeing a ban notice from xda. Got a lot of great information , thanks, and likes from there about hardware hacks, software hacks, and in general, technology though. It's a GREAT resource for cross-platform information and news. Maybe you typed the username wrong ? I don't know how to find information about bans, or haven't looked for it myself. Even spent some money there. It's neato.

    WPC on the other hand, yes, it seemed like a weekly thing. Say something even remotely negative, and there was an insta-ban. Any criticism of the platform, was usually handled that way instead of discussion being allowed.

    Nowadays I watch the forums for information about releases, update cycles, and to see how wp is coming along. It's an interesting study. If a ban results from speaking my mind, oh well, it's just an internet forum.

    Personally I haven't seen much iphone-fan-ism (or whatever it's called now) or android-zealotry in a year or so. People just kind of use their phones and 'meh' about comments that are pointier than needed.
    03-14-2015 07:11 AM
  16. ohgood's Avatar
    1 Thanks for keeping the discussion legit on your end.

    2 You said something, though, about how "dockable phones" didn't do well in sales in the past. I still don't think you fully understand what we mean by the type of docking we are talking about. There has never been a phone that docks in the way we are talking about, period, as the technology has not been available in the past. Technology is now there, but the differing technologies have not yet been set up to work together in order to accomplish such a docking. Would people want it? I can't speak of the masses, but I know a few people in my circle that would drool over the opportunity, including myself. I could easily justify it because I would no longer need to buy a laptop, desktop, phone combo. Just one device with a few peripherals, like monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc.



    3 I hope you don't mind if I don't go looking for the people. I'd rather spend some quality time at home with my children and my wife. Thanks. ;)


    .
    1 cool - it's fun, when it's allowed by the moderators.

    2 yes, i understand what's possible, sometime, out there, in the future. in the past, when i mentioned the possibility of docking a (it was an android atrix or something at the time? crap phone, crap dock, crap crap crap) phone to be used as a desktop, in the wp section, it was shouted down. i'm not sure if it was a 'not invented here' reaction, or just that it was android. or both, or neither, not sure.

    continuing... the concept is neato. the problems arise when real world uses are considered though:

    crunching through 1/2Tb of video, the phone rings, and a kid needs to be picked up from school. that crunching still needs to happen, TODAY, but the phone just got pulled from the dock, and is now in a pocket. is it going to continue crunching data (warming up that pocket and killing the battery) or put the task on hold until later ?

    scenario two: that CAD file that is 240Mb or so... is going to be rendered with the phone's onboard graphics, on a 27" 2up monitor ? i'm not saying it can't be done, but i don't know if it's possible right now, with the stuff inside phones of today. is it ?

    scenario three ( the one that ROCKS): vacation comes, and you have everything on the phone. movies, sat nag ( i mean NAV ), the credit cards, and NFC payments to speed up things at disney.... docking that phone at the suite would be pretty awesome for letting the kids watch their normal nighttime stuff without worrying about channel crap (commercials) they don't need to see. but how will you check up on email/presentations/work while they're using it ?



    just real world stuff, and the reasons (today) why people carry a phone and a laptop. twist it up and find a way to make it work. it might, i dunno.


    3 i have no interest myself. the point was, when people start showing interest, you'll see them produced and implemented. you'll need droves of them to offset current trends of phone + laptop kind of thinking. not sure how that will come about.
    Jorge Holguin likes this.
    03-14-2015 07:26 AM
  17. rhapdog's Avatar
    Data belongs to the cloud. moving data physically on a device is archaic.

    Nadella said they're working in the mobility of the experience not the mobility of a device.

    The price of a docking station would be comparable to the price of a cheap PC.
    While all technically true, it was never a statement about where I thought Microsoft would take things. It is totally against their vision. It is, however, where I would like to see things. It will take a lot of advances in hardware still for it to be possible the way I would like to see it implemented.

    Now, about your first comment, "Data belongs in the cloud."
    I think Hillary Clinton would disagree, evidenced by her own personal email server used in an attempt to keep her emails out of the cloud and in her control.

    I hate keeping my data in the cloud, as connection isn't always possible in this day and time, and accessing that data on a large scale can be expensive on a metered plan, which is ALL I have available where I live. I still do backups to portable hard drives because it is simply more economical.

    ....crunching through 1/2Tb of video, the phone rings, and a kid needs to be picked up from school. that crunching still needs to happen, TODAY, but the phone just got pulled from the dock, and is now in a pocket. is it going to continue crunching data (warming up that pocket and killing the battery) or put the task on hold until later ?
    NOW we're getting somewhere. This is good discussion. Yeah, this is definitely something that current hardware can't handle. I do imagine it will be possible someday, but not yet.

    scenario two: that CAD file that is 240Mb or so... is going to be rendered with the phone's onboard graphics, on a 27" 2up monitor ? i'm not saying it can't be done, but i don't know if it's possible right now, with the stuff inside phones of today. is it ?
    Sure it can be done.... v e r y s l o w l y . . . LOL
    Yeah, again, something for the future I suppose.

    scenario three ( the one that ROCKS): vacation comes, and you have everything on the phone. movies, sat nag ( i mean NAV ), the credit cards, and NFC payments to speed up things at disney.... docking that phone at the suite would be pretty awesome for letting the kids watch their normal nighttime stuff without worrying about channel crap (commercials) they don't need to see. but how will you check up on email/presentations/work while they're using it ?
    Don't you realize that everyone in the family gets their own phone? I wonder if that comes with a dock for each phone...

    What's worse is while on vacation, and your phone gets knocked over the side of the cruise ship... There goes the vacation. No way to pay for anything (all your credit cards and banking were handled by the phone), all your data, gone. Yeah, hopefully it was all backed up in the cloud, but now you've got to buy a new phone. But wait! You can't! You don't have your credit card because it just went over the side of the ship!

    Okay, yeah, I'll concede there are some real issues here. But without healthy debate, issues like these are never discovered nor solved.
    Jorge Holguin and SPS828 like this.
    03-14-2015 07:51 AM
  18. 3earnhardt3's Avatar
    Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus and infinity sales combined do not even match Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota or Nissan sales individually. Flagships do not sell phones, look at the craptastic iPhone 6, put this phone under any other brand and it is a forgotten midrange device. 13-30 year old trendsetters decide what is "cool" and what is ignored nowadays. You can have the best screen, processor, camera, storage capacity and OS, but it still won't sell if 20 year old women don't think its cool. Microsoft had a chance with WP7 due to the popularity of Xbox 360, but they absolutely blew it. First by not capitalizing on Xbox Gamerscore (mobile games deserve 1000 Gs, not a trivial 200) and then their awful Xbox one reveal.
    920Walker likes this.
    03-14-2015 11:00 AM
  19. ohgood's Avatar

    Don't you realize that everyone in the family gets their own phone? I wonder if that comes with a dock for each phone...

    Okay, yeah, I'll concede there are some real issues here. But without healthy debate, issues like these are never discovered nor solved.

    i saw the reality of children (teenagers) with cellular phones yesterday. instead of talking to each other, teen A was facebookmessageing teen B about what teen C just said, and teen D was just trying to get teen A's attention (flirtatious posturing) above all else.

    it was sad, there were $2000+ worth of communication devices, and the most rudamentary forms of casual conversation were lost on them. 'ewww' and 'creeepy' would be about the extent of the dialogue, i'm afraid, if any.




    but, you brought up the point that there will be multiple phones in a home. i agree there. the 'last years model' drawer currently has 5-6 phones in it. over time, those could be relegated to "desktop" duties, assuming they ever had the capability to display information externally. a previous post mentioned the Samsung Note currently can do this, today. So, with about 3 billion new Samsung devices coming out this year (we're in Q1 right now, only) that would make for quite a few possible desktop replacements.

    which leads to 2015's typical home desktop uses and the difficulties (if any) in doing them:
    facebook (easy, but pointless)
    youtube (ditto, besides the actual knowlege based learning channels)
    web browsing (easy, very wide ranging possibilities, depending on available browsers)

    i think the only problem with seeing this happen is there is currently a desktop sitting -right-there-, that does the job fine right now.
    920Walker likes this.
    03-15-2015 07:25 AM
  20. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    I love this conversation.. Although there are some points I do not agree with I am learning so much.
    03-15-2015 01:38 PM
45 12

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